I am a doctor with a background as a research scientist treating diabetic leg ulcers with maggots. My mother also lives with type 2 diabetes and I recently lost an aunt suddenly to a heart attack. Which I suppose is the reason why I am both personally and professionally fighting the battle to prevent diabetes complications and heart disease. I want my mother to live healthier for longer and I want the same for my patients.
I am looking for opinions, feedback & experiences from patients and experts in diabetes and heart disease on how we can best address address these issues? I would like to implement your feedback in the health tool I have launched to help my mum and my patients get better control and understanding. Look forward to your responses.
Regards
Mark
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What kind of doctor are you? Allopathy or otherwise?
Well, as cure says the only definite step to control Diabetess is to take as less carbs as possible. Carbs aren't "our" fuel. Follow this principle and eat the food which has preferably no carbs or less amount of carbs.. Avoid simple carbs. Restrict complex carbs. and take in divided doses. I assure you that not only complications of Diabetes won't occur, but also a fair amount of reversal of dysfunction of organs would occur.
I don't think i understand your degree. But, well, Hidden rightly said the results of low carb. is evident soon. But, the reversal takes some time. If on the keto diet, it'll be soon (8-10 weeks). If you are nonveg., then it's easy for you to change the diet to lchf or keto. Change in diet is for life.
That's absolutely right. Problem is unlike arthritis there are few if any symptoms, ''you don't get reminded by the pain in your knee''. So damage resulting in neuropathy, retinopathy & renal failure go unnoticed for a long time. Reversal is possible, a cure is not! Prevention and early diagnosis is paramount, in addition awareness and education.
"Infact it is the cause...consuming high carbs food is reason for insulin resistance ..which can lead a person to diabetes.." or while Diabetes is developing, we eat more carbs 🐒🐒. Diabetes is a long process. It shows its presence since childhood, but we don't recognize. And we interpret as "eating too much sweet caused Diabetes " 😳😳😳. The disease process starts in childhood.
No bro. Not in this case. Our genetic weakness starts working in childhood. Any etiology should be reproducible. There are many who eat lots of sugar even at our age and are not Diabetic. In the South, almost all people take really heavy amounts of carbs. and though the incidence of Diabetes is high, all are not Diabetics. Here weak gene(s) are responsible. If high carbs. are the cause, then the removal of them from diet should cure Diabetes. But, our inability remains lifelong.
This is true there is a genetic predisposition to develop diabetes with Afro-carribbean and Asian populations significantly more affected. Likely due to carrying more visceral fat. This is a controvercial topic as some highly respected doctors(Dr Muir Gray) have claimed Type 2 Diabetes is not a 'real' disease because it is caused by lifestyle and food seeking behaviour. And you mention when exposed to the causative agent - carbs - not everyone develops it. Which is a definition of disease from Koch's Postulates.
OK, so... Diabetes has a distinct and defined pathophysiology - I like to think of it like a disease of small blood vessels, affecting eyes, kidneys and nerves. Not everyone develops Type 1 diabetes - and apart from the autoimmune process, we don't know what causes that either? It is still a disease like many others we haven't discovered the cause of yet. (genetic/autoimmune/microbe)
I would like to know what patients and non-academics think about type 2 diabetes.
I want to learn of their motivations and values, the mental strength drivers they use to turn around and overcome type 2 diabetes
I get the science stuff, so want to learn more about the behaviour, the forming and breaking of unhealthy habits.
Feel free to ask me any questions, I will do my best to help
There is certainly an autoimmune element in type 1 and 1.5- LADA. In Type 2, we have genes that impair glucose utilization by the body. Why should the whole body become resistant? This can't be explained by any theory other than genes. With Type 2 diabetes, if a person goes on eating carbs., then that would raise their blood sugar and would increase glucose in their tissues. This will cause osmotic damage to the organs. The blood vessels involved are arterioles. They too become edematous and lots of ros generated because oxygen can't diffuse effectively to the tissues. These cause intimal damage and obliteration of lumen. The organs affected are: kidney, retina, heart, etc. are supplied by end arteries. So they don't get collateral circulation except for the heart which can develop effective collaterals if get time so that many patients with triple vessel block developed gradually can survive without bypass.
Very simple pathophysiology complicated by doctors and scientists for their vested 🐒 interests or nonapplication of minds.
on other hand there are many individuals who are not genetically destined to be diabetic (for at least last 2 generations neither side of parents are affected by D) gets affected by D …. What could be the reason???
Also recently we see in India ,very young population is suffering with D which was earlier a middle age disease.
1) The genetic base doesn't mean inheritance always. Our genes constantly undergo mutation. They tend to change spontaneously.
2) If high carb diet was the cause, then the incidence of type 2 diabetes in nonveg eating population would be very less. US and UK will be having the least number of Diabetic people. But, that's not the case.
3) Lifestyle. Right. But obesity itself is a disease and generator of many diseases. Igt is one of the manifestations. In such cases, losing obesity will "cure " him / her. Remember i said Diabetes can be primary or secondary. Secondary Diabetes can be cured. We are all cases of primary Diabetes.
Bhai suramo whenever I log on....first thing I check your replies...I do learn many things from your replies.
1) genetic base doesn't mean inheritance always. Our genes constantly undergo mutation. They tend to change spontaneously.
So do u mean that suddenly in last decade we Indian under gone certain spontaneous mutation??? Is that so??? what could be the cause???
2) if high carb diet would be the cause the incidence of t2d in nonveg eating population would be very less. US and UK will be having least numbers of D people. But that's not the case.
Bhai but comparatively incidence of D is more in societies which are consuming more carbs...like we Indians.
3) lifestyle. Right. But obesity itself is a disease and generator of many diseases. Igt is one of the manifestations. In such case losing obesity will "cure " him / her. Remember i said D can be primary or secondary. Secondary D can be cured. We are all cases of primary D.
Again cause of IGT is high IR???and obesity is due to high insulin level due to IR??
and as soon as person control carbs...body gains insulin sensitivity..and person starts losing weight...and process of reversal takes place??
1) may be there is more frequent mutations. As such our genome is dwindling. Means total active number of genes have reduced to great extent. May be loss of such few genes cause ir. Also there is predisposing ( genes in our case ) and precipitating cause ( high carb ) factors for causation of any disease.
2) tell me how much more is the incidence in carb eating population than nonveg population.
3) you are confusing between ir causing obesity which is usually central / abdominal and obesity which is globular causing ir. Ir is genetically induced whereas obesity is due to bad eating habits and bad lifestyle. Genetic ir not curable ( can be reversed ) but obesity induced ir can be cured.
But it's still unexplained why losing abdominal / visceral fat reduces primary ir. We are still ignorant about that. Imho.
But it's still unexplained why losing abdominal / visceral fat reduces primary ir. We are still ignorant about that. Imho
fatty liver is also associated with central obesity. As abdominal fat vanishes...fatty liver problem also gets resolved
For me...first I got diagnosed with fatty liver(About 9 yrs ago)...then got BP(about 7 yr ago)....then IGTAbout 2 yrs ago)...and full blown diabetes with 13+ Hba1c (about 18 months ago)....
Never had cholesterol problem.. means TC was not above 180/200 anytime..though HDL was below 40..
So it all started with fatty liver... and now everything is ok...last Hba1c was 5.8 and bp 70/120...
That's what i'm saying. T2d development is a long process. You were developing the signs of t2d. But did your doctor suspect you could have D ? It should be igt first.
well Bhai suramo I think it was much earlier...when they diagnosed me with 'NASH' I was diabetic...
I asked them is there any treatment for 'NASH'..they were really ignorant...
Unfortunately,most of main stream doctors feels it below dignity to take help from herbs..
And again and again I am saying we do not have any other options besides herbs to help our liver.
They just suggested me for diet...which was again same..1 plate poha or upama,marie biscuits ..no oil etc.. no one told me fructose is culprit..and I should go low carb..
Exercise..which most of working population is reluctant to go for..
and weight reduction...which was impossible task with main stream advice
Possibly that time only I could have returned from this 'No return point'
I kept consuming fruits in heavy quantity considering them healthy...and problem got aggravated...I am really curious to know what saved my liver from further damage.
To me it is liver which leads us to D...and if we heal liver reversal is possible.
Its a shame that your doctors didnt give any advice on herbs. You are right to want to try herbs many have well documented health benefits. And many drugs are simply extracts from herbs. NASH - non alcoholic fatty liver disease for those wondering, is associated with diabetes but not the cause. You don't have to be overweight to get it, you could be relatively skinny. It is caused by a combination of high fat diet - triglycerides (not all fats are equal guys) and either the liver storing too much of it for some reason or not releasing it quickly enough. The liver then forms nodules which could lead to scarring. The mainstay of treatment is low fat (triglyceride) diet. Most people are able to turn it around fairly quickly
It is caused by a combination of high fat diet - triglycerides (not all fats are equal guys) and either the liver storing too much of it for some reason or not releasing it quickly enough.
At present I am on High fats low carbs diet...
Every morning eating about 70-90 Gms of homemade butter. All vegetable cooked in homemade Ghee.
Eggs fried in ghee
Fish fried in coconut oil.
As far as carbs are concern I am consuming same thru Long wheat (emmer wheat) and legume.
TG below 80,HDL 54,LDL 120
Hba1c 5.8
Medicines 500 X 2 Metformin
herbs-Pickled curcuma longa and curcuma amada.
Raw garlic.
And other ayurveda tables such as Livd 38 and shilajeet rasayan vati
Supplements-Multivitamin Suprdayne-Vit C 500 MG + Coq10-100 andE Vit 200
Cure. You are clearly keeping good watch of your health and it shows. Your cholesterol score is about 3.5 which by Framingham guidekines suggests your risk for heart disease is half of that of the average person. This is good but other factors to consider such as diabetes, high blood pressure, smoking status, family history etc. You do seem to fry food often. There lies an opportunity to reduce your total cholesterol further. Try poached eggs one day. My favourite swap.
The first step is showing interest and researching - You have already started! Well done
Next step is hard..... ?diet and ?exercise.... Remember that you can not out train a bad diet so diet in adults is key. Start by monitoring your carbohydrate intake. Many diets available, do what works for you. Do what you are likely to stick with, think of results in months not weeks. Work with your doctor. Don't try and eliminate carbs, try and substitute them first for low GI alternatives/ complex carbs/whole foods/unprocessed. I have heard of cauliflower as a rice substitute... Let me know what you find works for you
Hi Suramo. I am a Senior House Officer & NHS Doctor - like the ones you would see if you went to hospital or to your GP. Dr. Mark Martin BSc Hons MB BCh. My background is in research and I specialised in treating diabetic foot ulcers following a 1st class degree in Biology before studying medicine. Hope this helps. Your advice is sound but I am sure you understand that it is very difficult to switch diet - especially for a lifetime.
I am interested to know what experiences actual diabetics have had, their struggles and victories, diets they love & those they hate, what works what doesn't (FOR THEM) I get the science bit....
I have been on a grain-free diet for the last eight months. Frankly, I don't find this at all difficult, though I'm an eggetarian taking eggs infrequently. It's firm determination to fight out D that works.
There are many here like Hidden , cure , Hidden , shrisamarth, concerned and many more who are enjoying lchf diet and medication free life.
More than half of the obsession for carbs comes from the fact that we have wrongly been informed/taught that carbs are a must for our brain and for our survival 🐒🐒. That carbs provide many nutrients 🐒🐒. Just tell me would you give a dote to your patients and an antidote to combat its harmful effects? Well, I may not say carbs are poison, but for us they are definitely harmful. Taking carbs and medications are like giving wheat to a celiac disease patient and then giving steroids to supress allergic response. 😊😊
That's true. Patient choice and autonomy is important. We still treat people who smoke cigarettes when they have COPD or lung cancer. We treat people with liver failure that are alcoholics as we should treat diabetics who consume carbs when perhaps they should not.
Very true. But we always repeatedly advise them to stop smoking and alcohol consumption. In D we still don't explain that carbs are harmful and should be used less. On the contrary under a wrong knowledge that carbs are necessary we advise D people to consume carbs.
I have type 2 diabetes as does my brother although we are only moderately overweight. I.e. Normal for these days! We keep fit. We have a history of diabetes in our family (mostly GPs) and are building up a history of breast cancer! Oh joy . We have a long family history of v. bad thyroid problems. I now have PMR as well. I am happy to work with you re the pitfalls of a diabetic diet and trying to keep on track. This is even more important to me now I am on 40 pred! I would like to know more about this uncontrollable longing for something sweet. Ill and tired today but do fire questions at me anytime in the future.
I'm T2 and on metformin and diet. My last HbA1c blood test in December was 6.3 and going down. I eat lower carb, not low carb which is unsustainable for me. Low Carb High Fat isn't suitable for everyone and people should always speak to their diabetic team before moving over to LCHF. Eat less process food, cook from scratch and I aim for 50g carbs at each meal, some may say that is too much but any less and I find it very hard.
If LCHF works for you that's great but it shouldn't be promoted as for everyone.
Thanks ceejayblue for your excellent insight. I agree, although I am not diabetic I have tried skipping carbs in my meals to see how it feels. It frankly feels horrible. I get serious carb cravings, feel grumpy and irritable. So I generally tell my patients to go low glucose index (GI) first and reduce from there. The aim is to see a decline in blood sugar levels. Not an over night cure! Carb free is difficult to sustain.
Would be interesting to know other type 2 diabetics experiences....
If you eat carbs that will raise insulin levels in your blood. Once the carbs are cleared insulin levels go down causing hunger contractions and craving for more carby food. If you take low carb high fat diet as i do the insulin levels remain low. So you like me will not have hunger contractions.
High gi food is worse for us because it shoots up bs but low gi food delivering as much carb would make pancreas to work longer. Ultimately it's carb load that puts stress on pancreas. And there is nothing like gradual introduction of lchf diet. If you feel too much hungry as happens in first few days you can eat fresh coconut or bulletproof coffee.
Sound advice! Bulletproof coffee though? Never heard of this but I am a coffee lover myself. Yes low GI is good because complex carbs release the sugars slowly and reduce insulin spikes
- I have just learned what a bulletproof coffee is! Can't wait to try one!
I was going to try and go sugar free but I do like my treats and chocolate so I make adjustments to my diet with swapping things out, especially when eating out and share starters and/or desserts or cut carbs from main meal to eat dessert etc.
I do worry that when people push forward LCHF or any other diet that they don't look at the fact that everyone is different and what works for one won't work or another person. It is better for me to have a balanced diet, lower on carbs, not too high fat and add in some exercise. People need to find whatever works for them and if their GP agrees that it is a good way to go.
Absolutely Ceejayblue! Find what works for you and build on that. There are loads of options to try in terms of diet out there.... Some better than others but each to their own hey?
I like my treats to so eliminating cake and other sweet treats from mine or anyone elses diet is not easily done. Ultimately diabetics must reduce sugar intake but not aggressively so, as this can lead to depression (ESMON study). Intense monitoring is beneficial but changes must be gradual and thus sustainable.
"Ultimately diabetics must reduce sugar intake but not aggressively so, as this can lead to depression (ESMON study). "
I don't agree to such studies. No one on this forum seems to be depressed due to lchf. On the contrary I, on lchf grainfree for last eight months, feel more elated and more energetic. High sugar is said to cause loss of brain cells, alzheimer's and depression.
I am glad you said that Suramo - because I too think the depression was caused by study design (ESMON) not intensive monitoring of blood glucose (SMBG). And I am keen for all my patients to have glucose test strips
Hi - My husband is late onset T1 and I have joined him recently in a trial of LCHF diet. we check his bs 3 times a day and it has improved significantly, and my depression has gone - no more pills for me and I feel fantastic. No more stiff neck headaches or brain fuzz. Skin feels like it's 20 years younger. Husband and I are just over 50 yrs old.
Nobody is pushing lchf diet. Just understand the basic philosophy. If you take low carb low / eu protein diet you need to increase fat content to fulfil your calorie requirement.
The gp and docs here are trained as per american philosophy. Misleading teaching. They may not know lchf and may not advice.
Lchf is not anybody's creation. Since we are poor at clearing carbs 100g is an arbitrary limit. It's advisable to use less carb because it's not our fuel. And that is for everyone whosoever wants to live happy healthy life.
Yes. You are right. 100 g a day but none can exclude carb from diet completely esp veg people. Only after our glycogen storage is nil or negligible will ketones be our fuel. Carb is not our fuel. My diet nowadays contains lesser than 100g per day imho. I don't think i have any problem but well for a short term exercise we need glycogen. But i think ketones also can replace carbs in short term exercise.
Carbs are not inevitable for our lives. One can live without carbs utilizing protein and fat for energy.
Brains can use ketones as efficiently. On the contrary keto diet is useful in alzheimer's and epileptic fits. You are misinformed that brain needs carbs. Tigers and lions don't eat carbs still their brains work 🐒🐒🐒🐒😃😃😄😄
I don't agree to what has been said in that article. There are many including myself who live on lchf diet and without any of the issues like hypoglycemia, headache and lack of concentration. On the contrary i'm more alert. Yes constipation can be a problem but not very big one. Include lots of fibres in diet or take isapgul etc.
I don't know the answer to the epilepsy question but I still don't think that everyone should be on an LCHF Diet! One size does not fit all, if it works for you that's great it doesn't work for everyone.
We use ketogenic diet in paediatrics where there is a poor response to medication, generally works pretty well. But is not a long term solution. The brain can use ketones, some believe this makes it work better - controversial. If the brain had a choice it would use glucose oer ketones, - we need carbs. Ketogenic diet is not without it's risks.
1) As Diabetics, we can metabolise carbs in limited quantity. If we as Diabetics take more carbs., the glucose will accumulate in blood and body tissues exerting its deleterious effects on body. So, we need to cut down on the carb. intake. How much? We can take only enough that will be cleared from our blood without raising the blood sugar. My own carb. clearance is 4mg / 100ml / hour. This is at rest.
2) Protein can take .75g / kg body weight. My body weight is 68. So, roughly I can take 52-55g protein/ day. So 220 calories from protein.
According to lchf concept c :f is 20:20:60. So, I have to cut down carbs. as per 1200x 20%= 240 c = 60g carbs. I'd love to go with lchf calculation. So, fat intake should be 720 c % 9= 80 ml good fats.
True, in sprinters lets not forget creatine as the first fuel to be burnt. Utilised in seconds! The body will use what breaks down the easiest to release ATP - the ultimate energy currency. Paradoxically creatine has the least ATP release per gram, fat the most. But fat does not release energy quickly so like you suggested is used last. Marathon runners though largely rely on glycogen. If you are running on fat the energy release is too slow. At this point you would have ''hit the brick wall'' and only able to sustain walking pace at best.
We use the ketogenic diet in paediatrics in children who do not respond to anti-epileptic medication. It largely has a good effect, but it is not a long term solution. Ketogenic diet carries health risks too.
Practice anulom - vilom pranayam for 30 minutes in the morning and 30 minutes in evening which will cure all ailments in regard to heart. Eat one promogranite will keep away all heart problems.
Suryasurya thanks for posting. Thats a good start. Exercise and a healthy diet is key. But I'm afraid it doesn't "keep away all heart problems". We need to be our own health advocate so, persistence, commitment are crucial... and have regular check ups. Don't leave your health to chance.
Dear Sir, Practice anulom - vilom for 15 minutes a day will keep away all heart ailments. Practice it and it will work for sure. You can avoid bypass, or stroke or whatever it may be. When your heart problem is cured, please get back to me. I have all the ayurvedic medicine to help you to get cure early. You can use Arjuna tree bark powder and it works wonders.
Alternative medicines can be of use to some people.... with certain conditions. Although I have not heard of the above options. It's always wise to be careful and do some research and seek sound medical advice from a clinician.
Hi my name is gemma and I have just signed up...I have type one diabetes and have also had a kidney transplant and recently been diagnosed with peripheral vascular disease...I also suffer gastroperis and Charcot foot...night blood pressure and high cholesterol with a mini stroke at 26...I'm
Only 31 and I'm struggling to see why I have had so many bad complications my blood sugars levels have been a little all over the place but nothing major...I found the insulin pump a great help for managing my diabetes better...control of sugars is the key to avoiding the horrendous complications...is it just me or has anybody else had such a long list of complications after being diagnosed diabetic
Thanks for posting on this thread and sharing your story. You really have had a tough time. I mentioned in an earlier post that i like to think of diabetes as a disease of small blood vessels. Meaning the effects of high sugar are seen most where the blood vessels are the tiniest. We often call this end organ disease. I think you are right, some people are affected more than others.
Would be interesting to know what other diabetics think?
I think it would be interesting to know what other diabetics think and learn about their experiences with high sugar levels, and the complications they have encountered...I was diagnosed at age 10 so I've been diabetic now for 22 years.
Gemlou85, that's a significant time to have diabetes for. Sad to learn you've accrued so many complications along the way.
We're the same age 😃 so you have made me take a moments reflection...
What aspects of your life made it hard to control your sugar levels? It must take so much strength to keep on track... every activity, every meal, counting carbs, calculating insulin.... what kept you going and motivated?
What pump are you using? Are you also using a CGM (continuous glucose monitor) to see the trends and/or results for the food you eat while testing your blood sugar, Gemlou85 ?
Hi. I'm currently using the accu check insight pump. It has worked well for the gastroperisis, but I have lost all awareness of hypoglycaemic attacks. I'm talking with my diabetic doctor at present as he thinks the sensor pump would suit me better as it alarms if my sugars are about to go low.
The DEXCOM system? You can check out the postings on the DEXCOM that I do once a week on HU for the DRWF group. All DEXCOM postings are bilingual (English and Spanish). I plan to do a new posting very soon for this week.
Hi Mark. I have been T1 from the age of 3 in 1966. All my life I have been as active as I can & will be out on my Mountain bike tomo. even a simple walk is good for anyone. Good luck
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so I make adjustments to my diet with swapping things out, especially when eating out and share starters and/or desserts or cut carbs from main meal to eat dessert etc.
:f is 20:20:60. So, I have to cut down carbs. as per 1200x 20%= 240 c = 60g carbs. I'd love to go with lchf calculation. So, fat intake should be 720 c % 9= 80 ml good fats.
Liver transplant and diabetes disappearing
Balance & Diabetes
Diabetes
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