Diabetes India
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Conflicting Interests? Moi?

There was a recent insulting post put up here suggesting that independent researchers pushing back against the current dietary guidelines are somehow inferior to the various government bodies who tell us what the best course is re diet and medication.

This type of appeal to authority is the supine attitude that has got us to where we are now, with people walking out of an obese doctor's surgery with a prescription held in a reassured hand and who don't get better. If they were plumbers they'd be sued!

Anyway, have a little look at this:

eatdrinkpolitics.com/wp-con...

If in doubt - FOLLOW THE DOLLAR!

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Its a huge list Mike...

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@anup @navinsinha

The 6 day residential program conducted by Dr. Tripathi costs about Rs. 20-25k. That's peanuts compared to what Dr. Nandita Shah of Sharan charges for a 21 day health retreat conducted at a luxury resort in Gokarna - Rs. 3.6 lacs per head. Dr. Tripathi is poor man's Dr. Nandita Shah. :D

But I personally don't hold it against them if they make money, as long as the attendees are benefited from their programs. I have seen a lot of people testifying about the efficacy of these programs.

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navinsinha I would never deny anyone his/her personal experience(backed my medical reports of course), regardless of the diet they follow, be it LCHF, complex carbs based diet or LW.

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Navinsinha

good that you got rid of D. Can we all know about your diet?

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By the way navin even if you bring 100 thousand examples eating sugar and reversing diabetes i won't touch sugar. These are old tactics to mesmerise the people as if the propagator is hercules or say rajnikant. I never look at those who try to impress people by hyperbolic statements.

If you are overawed by the guy who advises to "take sugar " first please stop for a while, think and then go ahead.

Truth never need such hypes to prove itself. Sugar is also against your low gi low gl diet. Even if anybody has reversed his/her D and consumes sugar the reversal will revert again. We are humans and not miraculous people.

Yes who has to speak big unnatural things is surely not a right person.

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Navin

neither.

"THE SWEET CASE OF THE REVERSAL

This World Health Day, Tehseen Mehdi, a 41-year-old businesswoman, shares how she successfully reversed the life-crippling condition of diabetes.

He stood before us confidently and said, "If someone holds out two spoons before you, one filled with sugar and the other with milk, take the former." A loud cry of surprise was followed by a long silence, not to mention the stares of bewilderment and confusion. Dr Promod Tripathi was addressing a group of diabetic patients, and I was one of them, hanging on to each and every word. "

I was referring to your post.

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Sir, the term veganism doesn't correctly describe the Neal Barnard diet that you are following. One can be a vegan, and yet have the unhealthiest eating habits. A can of coke, a packet of french fries, a veg sub and a doughnut is a vegan meal too!

And technically, a vegan can be on LCHF. LCHF doesn't necessarily mean non vegetarian. :)

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I didn't say Dr. Barnard's diet is against veganism. It's a small subset of vegan diet.

Technically, taking animal fats is not necessary for LCHF. There are plant based sources of healthy fats too.

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Sir ji, you are probably not aware of what subset means.

Dairy products are a good source of good fats, but not the only source. Hint : coconut oil.

But in your new combative avatar, aap kisi ki sunane ke mood mein nahi hain :D

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Do it by all means, Sir. I am not against vegan diet. (Not that it really matters to you.)

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yes .They have the monopoly of those words .

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is it 60% or 80%?

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May be by mistake , some where it was given 80: 10 :10.

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snide remarks about hclf is the only clarification we can expect from their side.

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Hclf means high carb low fat which is adorned with many titles like nonsensical food , foolish food , idiotic food etc . On the first opportunity our poor hclf food gets attacked .

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The move should come from those doctors who are expressing their opinions in the form of research reports .

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Since u just joined can u point out any hate messages against you?

If you talk about past we will presume that this is a duplicate id

If not nothing should disturb you

Anup called carbohydrates as nons.... and not against any person

If vegan is working for you Please propagate it nicely

Also I said abuses for another person who is abusing me personally

Why should u fall in between this skirmishes??

If lchf is working for us we try and help others

If we see an issue with other diet we just point out and not abuse anyone

If u have been abused Please show the thread

Abuses against me you can easily see here.

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If there are 8 million diabetic that are vegans, does not that tell you something. Doesn't that mean that approach is not working that is why so many Vegan diabetics!!

If anyone contradicts you or propagate LCHF as another possible solution, strange that you consider that as hate message???

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Navinsinha anup et al

please all very nice learned people. We are all here to help curing D. Instead you guys are discussing who is right and which diet is superior lchf or vegan.

Madam navinsinha please let us all know your diet plan. You prefer vegan diet - fine. Let us all know how much carbs you are taking in a day, be it low GI Carbs. Tell us what is the ratio of c:p:f in your diet and how much calories do you recommend for us - the diabetics.

Let we all analyse and find out which of the two lchf and vegan is better. Perhaps we may find some other diet plan from a healthy discussion. I don't trust all these studies and number games because many studies are fabricated to suit the benefit of those who give funds for their vested interests.

Please everybody. Cool down and talk something useful rather than personal fights.

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Sorry navin

i don't say you have an agenda. But one fact is not going to change that we t2d can't metabolise carbs efficiently. Even if we take low gi food we have to deal with glycemic load that gi x gm of carbs taken. Now as you say "We take almost 100% carbs and we don't count calories. Protein is also derived from plant food. Eat as much as you like"

I'd certainly like to understand how a big glycemic load i.e. big amount of carbs ingested would be cleared from our blood in the presence of IR.

I also would like to understand how protein and fat requirements are fulfilled by your diet plan. Let me tell you i'm a eggitarian.

"But this was only one of the many surprises that were hurled at me through the first two years of being diagnosed with diabetes in the summer of 2012. The diagnosis itself was accidental. A generic blood test, conducted prior to a warranted ovarian surgery, revealed elevated blood sugar levels, and the presence of the said condition." This i misunderstood and addressed you madam. I'm sorry navin

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Glycemic load is not fixed like gi. It depends on the amount of food you take. If you take low gi food in large quantity the gl would be high.

GL = GI X Gms of carbs taken/100

See this

mango gi 55

100 gm mango has 13 g carbs.

So if you eat 100g ripe mango the GL is 55x 13/100= 7.15

if you eat 200g ripe mango the load is 7.15x2 = 14.30.

load depends on the quantity of food you eat. So if a low gi food is taken in large quantity as you are saying the gl gets high and if you want to keep gl below 10 as recommended for D the quantity of low gi food has to be less not fulfilling the caloric requirements.

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👍👍

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Concerned @anup

Is the debate about the role of fructose in developing IR and fatty liver settled? I have read both sides of the debate, and I am still confused.

You said in one of your comments that up to 15 gm of fructose a day is safe. Where does this number come from? What happens if one exceeds 15 gm?

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Navin

thanks. I'm from gujarat.

But i think you have some misconception about gl. Gl = gi x gms of carbs. Low gi food taken in large amount and as you say you take 100% low gi food puts a high gl and it takes longer time to clear. That means insulin has to remain high for a long time. So lipolysis is not possible hence IR issue will not be addressed. Only 1gm of fat removed from pancreas increases insulin sensitivity many folds. IR issue is addressed. D is controlled.

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m.timesofindia.com/life-sty...

Please refer to the above link. You may or may not agree.

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Yes. I'd certainly like to know how dr bernards system works. Let me understand how exclusive low gi carbs work to reverse D. Please.

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Navin

Well since you have personal experience i'd not like to contradict but frankly i'm not convinced.

1) cholesterol is not the culprit but ldl. Cholesterol is very important for the body since it's an important constituent of cell membranes, bile and certain hormones and vit d. It is synthesized by our body de novo. Now a days researchers stipulate that cholesterol is a very good anti oxidant.

2) min veg oil. Ok.

3) low gi food.

The issues that require consideration are

1) what's the ratio of c:p:fat. Plants veg do not provide proteins in enough quqntity to fulfil body requirements. What about essential fatty acids and essential amino acids? These essential ingredients can't be synthesized by our body. They have to be taken in food only or as medical supplements.

2) There is no mention of calorie intake.

3) It's the insulin responsible for production of fats from carbs in our body. As long as insulin is present in the body lipolysis is not possible. Low gi food is good but if gl is more the insulin remains longer inhibiting lipolysis. We t2d want to get rid of visceral fat. Fats that surround our organs.

Low gi food is great but taken in large quantity to fulfil our daily caloric requirements, i don't think is good.

The logic of reversing D is to switch our carb based fuel system to fat based. And since we can't assimilate carbs properly carbs should be taken as less as possible and be replaced by prots and fats. Prots need to be taken in limited proportion because

1)It gets converted to carbs

2)the metabolic end products put strain on kidneys.

Fats recommended are the ones which have high mct and scts. These are the fats which are directly absorbed into the blood through portal vein instead of forming chylomicrons and gettin absorbed through lymphatic system. These mcts and scts are soon used as fuel by liver because they CANNOT BE STORED in the body as fats. Fats not recommended are hydrogenated fats and fats found in the meats of nongrass fed animals and red meat. Anybody correct me if i'm wrong. Fish are very good source of omega 3 fatty acid - an essential fatty acid very much important for functioning of our brains and also to prevent alzheimer's.

Navinji. There are many such issues which your vegan low gi diet don't address.

Anup has done lots of reading on the subject and i'd recommend that instead of getting into scuffle with him or anybody let's all put all the theories together, do brain storming and get the best out of our knowledge.

I or anup do not proclaim that we have fullest knowledge but since we have read a lot and we ourselves are practising what we speak here rather than just advising for few bucks what we say here should be considered. You may or may not practice lchf or any other diet but that doesn't make us enemies.

Lastly the role of fermentation can't be ignored. Desi ghee, curds and all the food that require fermentation is very good for our health. Eliminating such items not good for healthy living.

Gn

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ketones produced by the fatty acids released by the stored fats or fats of the ketogenic diet could give energy to the body and mind and may bring down insulin levels But the diet may not be suitable to all.

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The incidence of cancers , Parkinson's disease ,high BP are still high there.is there cent percent guarantee that ketosis does not affect the metabolism in the long run.

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"The incidence of cancers , Parkinson's disease ,high BP are still high there."

Where?

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Where diabetes , psoriasis , leucoderma and many more so called autoimmune diseases are there .

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Still didn't get you. T1D is an autoimmune disease. But T2D?

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type 2 diabetes may not be termed as autoimmune disease and it could be due to excess calories and insulin malfunctioning , but still it is not being found in case of some excess food takers. What is the reason .

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Saswathy

Carbs are surely not suitable for us. That's a universal truth for us

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The fact that got overlooked was that 45% to 55% carb diet COULD also control glucose levels.High fat diet could cause kidney stones ,constipation ,high cholesterol and don't know what many other problems . Yes , it has been very good for some .But the fact remains that it is not suitable for many .

So let us agree to disagree till such time the results prove it's worth in the long run .10 years is too short a time for that getting to be proved .

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I noticed that her diet was nowhere near LCHF when navinsinha quoted her here. People should do proper homework before switching to LCHF, rather than blaming the diet when lipids go haywire.

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Well as you say we agree to disagree. You carry on with your philosophy and i with mine. In long term we will find out who was right and who was wrong or we both were right or wrong.

Till then we would share our experience on this forum with a broad mind.👍👍👍

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You mean a1c score was 1?

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That too with diet only? No insulin injections though t1d?

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I'm really impressed by his progress and promising control of t1d. I can't imagine how he would be maintaining 30g carbs a day since prots are converted to carbs. Must learn his diet plan

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Anup

everybody on this forum is sane enough to analyze what is right and what is wrong. So don't care for those who abuse lchf diet. Your experience with lchf is good and so is with many here. Forget those who bash lchf. Rather than putting a person to person fight let us all logically and scientifically decide what is good for us.

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So kind of you. I salute you for your genuine efforts to convey to all of us,the privileged people your valuable experience to control D without any personal interest. Thanks

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Let them. Facts don't change.

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Many times , accusations were hurled at us , saying that we have some vested interest.But we have taken it in our stride ,because cause is more important than personal ego .

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I think there is some other factor which is contributing to the wide spread of diabetes apart from pancreatic malfunctioning . So far as the control of the same is concerned it is not diet alone , whether it is vegan , vegetarian or high fat or low fat or non vegetarian food .With all the funds , time , people at their disposal US CAN GO IN TO finding that 'x ' factor.We have seen cures or controls in vegan food , vegetarian food , high carb low fat food , high fat low carb food , exclusive foods like fruits though rare , in fact in all foods . But no where there is a hundred percent cure . That it self shows that there is something else which needs an answer or solution .

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The cures all have some common factor , that is limited calorie intake .It is not the quality or ratio in the food . it is the lesser quantity which is giving the results in any type of food .

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