morning gang.As my disease progresses I seem to have more allergy symptoms (itchy nose, roof of mouth, eyes etc). I looked this up in conjunction with Parkinson’s. Apparently people who get hay fever are more likely to get PD than those who don’t. They both stem from brain inflammation. So I thought ‘why not take an ibuprofen’, which I did, and my allergy symptoms appear to have receded somewhat. Whilst I’m conscious that a healthy person wouldn’t take ibuprofen due to the fact that it can damage the gut when taken in large amounts regularly, wouldn’t a single dose daily help us PWP much like some people take a baby aspirin for blood thinning?
A line of reasoning?: morning gang.As my... - Cure Parkinson's
A line of reasoning?
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jeeves19
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Hi Jeeves! You’re not going to believe this, I thought the same thing. Every time I take a ibuprofen, it seems to calm down tremors, but I don’t like to take it because they said some bad things if you take it every day to find out what other people say, and do some research taking too much ibuprofen. Thanks for bringing that up. I’ll let you know what I find out. 🥊
Interesting Debbie
Cinnamon has anti-inflammatory properties and has improved Parkinson's for some of us. Might be worth a try. My report here: healthunlocked.com/cure-par...
I use ibuprofen 400 mg once or twice a week and it subsides my PD symptoms as well as prolong ON time (whenever taken)
yes. I’m finding the same. Is this going to surprise people?
Have you tried paracetamol instead? Less harmful than Ibuprofen
Not yet. Does it give you any more bang for your buck?
Acetaminophen (outside the US often referred to as paracetamol)...It will sure f*** with your kidneys if you get into it too much, including shut them down and maybe permanently. That one you can certainly look up for verification. And it seems to do very little for pain and next to nothing for fever so I don't know, anti-inflammatory??? Or just very good marketing as alternatives to aspirin and ibuprofen? So for all the heavy alternative use of acetaminophen, it seems to me you get no effect at all in much of any area (information, fever control, pain control, all nothing in my experience and also in my opinion) and that I can say is true from my own personal experience...but you do risk the blessing of damage to your kidneys, sometimes irreparable.
I tend to agree with you Marion. I don't have PD, I am a carer, but I have allergies to MANY raw fruit. I also get very bad headaches, worse years ago, better now. Paracetamol only ever has helped me with deep aches, from minor surgeries, ankle strains. Headache pain for me it is useless. Only liquid Aspirin (Disprin) works for head pain for me. For Ibuprofen though, Adam, I have always used sparingly when I have torn ligaments or pulled muscles, like at present Intercostal rib muscles are strained from coughing, and an Ibuprofen has helped immensely, Paracetamol has done nothing. I used to take 10 Disprin a day for headaches (back in the 80s), the Doctor telling me that as long as I drink lots of water the kidneys will be fine. Who knows !! I understood that Voltarin was even worse for the body...We are all so different creatures.
Paracetamol is the same as acetaminophen which is also called Tylenol or Panadol. Paracetamol is the number two cause of liver transplants in the world and the number one cause for liver transplants in the US as discussed here :
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK4....
Here is a relevant article quote :
' Acetaminophen toxicity is the second most common cause of liver transplantation worldwide and the most common cause of liver transplantation in the US. It is responsible for 56,000 emergency department visits, 2,600 hospitalizations, and 500 deaths per year in the United States. '
Art
Thanks. I just read something similar. This is very odd though: I’ve been ON via my usual dose of 200 mg c/l for 5 hours now. WTF?
What were you doing the 5 hours before you took meds? Just interested if you had been sitting reading, out exercising, whittling wood ??? Eating lots of yummy food. Fasting?🐱
LoL. I wish it's lots of yummy food 🤣🤣😇
😆😹🐰
My husband has a coworker who almost died last year due to a bleeding disorder. They finally realized that the cause was the daily ibuprofen he was taking. It scared my husband quite a bit because he was in the habit of casually popping one every time he had an ache or pain (he's a truck driver/heavy equipment operator at a steel mill, so aches and pains are common). He rarely takes it now.
I don't know if it helps my PD symptoms. I probably take an ibuprofen about 2-3 times a year.
Thanks for the contribution. It certainly helps seemingly but I’ll have to temper it’s usage with some medical supervision and guidance.
I found this link :
I am reminded of this post from several years ago:
All of your symptoms are down-stream effects of PD. Yes PD is an inflammatory condition and anti-inflammatory drugs can ease the symptoms. But don't address the root cause.
this is spot on where all my personal pd research has taken me…inflammation. Laurie mischleys diet is anti inflammatory, exercise is anti inflammatory, vibration/meditation/stress relief is anti inflammatory. Krill oil/curcumin/ibuprufen helps. My frozen shoulder is due to inflammation. All above help my symptoms. It really feels to me its a result of chronic long term inflammation.
"They both stem from brain inflammation." I think you have to question this premise... Allergies seem to be the source of reactions from pollens, spores, other fungi, perhaps seasons, perhaps food or other substance sensitivities, various chemicals, actually just about anything you might encounter if you develop an inflammatory response to it or antibodies, like toxins or bacterial waste products, and as weather changes, as climate changes or goes through cycles and seasons, the allergic mechanism from some of those growing things follows through to histamine reactions, at the very least, factors you would have to isolate and exclude if you're insisting on brain inflammation as a source of your allergic reactions. That's a big lift to what sounds like an idiosyncratic reaction you're having to Ibuprofen... On the other hand, why not when you're talking about PD, how many people really thought about that and looked into it after all?
Now usually for allergies, like in my case I have a lifelong allergy to sugars which results in very nasty itching All over and even inside of structures such as trachea, ear canals, deep under skin,..., and wherever nerves or other cells have histamine blasts and receptors, The only thing that helps is chronic use of antihistamines, which have their own chronic effects that exacerbates even further chronic allergy reactions, because their use, while necessary, and over months and years I'm saying, force relatively unchangeable structural changes in the number and expression of those histamine receptors in and on your cells over time, which results in tolerance and dependence to the antihistamines, lowered main effect, more intense allergic expressions and expressions that are not just more, but more intense, and a greater need to use larger and larger doses, and then when any of those doses are withdrawn from continuous use, a much more intense consequent allergic reaction, just like with anything else that is modified by feedback and changed with the chronic substance... Structurally, anatomically, this is the exact same mechanism as addiction.
And I'm just mentioning these because they all happen to operate in line with your over-time and aging hypothesis. That's a lot to separate out in order to just to sign the effect to ibuprofen unless you have a much larger sample... But since each person and can be very uniquely synchronic, can't rule it out either I guess although it may only apply to you or one or two other people.
Then there's your idea about NSAIDS... Unless I missed and you're just simply thinking of only one, namely Ibuprofen... But you were talking about inflammation as a general cover, so we need to think about what reduces inflammation and usually people think of NSAIDs..... But despite being called anti-inflammatory, NSAID is not a really useful classification because within that classification many of the individual chemicals don't have a whole lot of relationship to each other chemically... Just makes you wonder why they even came up with the category name, but what they were really doing was saying that these are things that relieve symptoms without being a steroid. But they don't have the same action among themselves in common, they don't fall reduce inflammation, Even though they are in a group that's named anti-inflammatory. Yes I know that sounds crazy. Think of acetaminophen, naproxen, ibuprofen, and aspirin... There's actually quite a number of them. They really don't have a whole lot of relationship to each other. I don't think they're known for affecting immune system allergic reactions and they're not all known for reducing inflammation either. I've never heard of ibuprofen being used in the way that you are talking about, muscle aches and pain yes, reducing information no...but then I don't know anything about that subject at all. Maybe somebody has good background in understanding some of these matters so that some of that will doesn't need to be invented, I guess I would ask around and try to research a little bit.
Thanks for sharing these excellent thoughts and insights Marion. Very much appreciated. 😊👍
If, like last autumn, I have severe symptoms of nonallergic rhinitis (NAR), strangely enough, there is only one remedy left: Ibuprofen...
Well I guess there are yes idiosyncratic reactions and you & Jeeves are two idio syncratics, what are the odds??
Intriguing stuff, Jeeves. Nice to have something in the back pocket for very special occasions.
It very much looks like ibuprofen use is strongly associated with lower PD risk....while the same is not true of the other NSAIDs:
"The association between use of ibuprofen and lower PD risks, not shared by other NSAIDs or acetaminophen, suggests ibuprofen should be further investigated as a potential neuroprotective agent against PD."
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
Other studies have reached similar conclusions.
Ibuprofen is a COX inhibitor. It inhibits both COX1 and 2. As do other NSAIDs..so something in addition is likely going on.
Very roughly: COX 2 inhibition seems to dampen inflammation.
COX 1 inhibition seems to cause the gastric issues.
Selective COX 2 inhibitors are not without issues - cardiac problems were certainly a problem in the early drugs brought to market - but you can find a discussion of natural COX2 inhibitors here:
frontiersin.org/articles/10...
Thanks for that Gary 👍
It's fun to hunt down exactly what ibuprofen is doing - that many other COX inhibitors (aspirin, paracetamol etc) are perhaps not doing - which might begin to explain its impact on PD. Is it doing inhibition a little differently? Something besides inhibition?
Though, a recent study is much less positive:
I was told to take Tylenol, it’s better for your gut. I also get itchy from head to toe frequently 
This is an interesting article from 2006 associating PD and allergic rhinitis
sciencedaily.com/releases/2...
"The association with Parkinson's disease is increased to almost three times that of someone who does not have allergic rhinitis," says James Bower, M.D., Mayo Clinic neurologist and lead study investigator. "That's actually a pretty high elevation."
Previous studies had shown that people who regularly take nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, such as ibuprofen, are less likely to develop Parkinson's disease. These results prompted the Mayo Clinic investigators to look further into the links between diseases characterized by inflammation and Parkinson's.
"People with allergic rhinitis mount an immune response with their allergies, so they may be more likely to mount an immune response in the brain as well, which would produce inflammation," Dr. Bower says. "The inflammation produced may release certain chemicals in the brain and inadvertently kill brain cells, as we see in Parkinson's."
My husband had allergies every spring so badly as a child he had to have regular steroid injections . Now he reckons he doesn’t have hayfever any more yet spring is when he usually seems to start tracking downwards with symptoms.
We had come to the conclusion his allergies have now manifested as Parkinson’s later in life.
As for the aching pains I have found I no longer get achy joints since giving up gluten and sugar.
So, if an anti inflammatory drug is helping you, doesnt that tell us that the root cause of the problem is inflammation? Yes, a little Ibuprofen can give you some relief, but if youre worried about side effects and long term toxicity, you gotta go for the root cause. That means the dreaded Elimination Diet, as well as going for perfume and dye free soaps and laundry detergents, etc.
While we're on the subject, it has been said that Benedryl (Diphenhydramine) has a positive effect on PD Symptoms too. That is allergy medicine. Can make you sleepy and Im not sure on long term side effects and toxicity on that either.
Just some thoughts from your favorite bassist!
Thanks Bass. Always good to hear from you. 😊
Inflammation (via the NLRP3 inflammasome) is definitely a target for treatment/prevention of PD. As a matter of fact, a HU member recently posted about the Selnoflast trial he's participating in. Selnoflast is an NLRP3 inhibitor. healthunlocked.com/cure-par...
There are lots of natural products that exhibit NLRP3 inhibition; ginseng, curcumin, quercetin, cinnamon, astaxanthin, licorice, resveratrol, sulforaphane and many others. If I had allergies, the first one I'd consider trying would be quercetin; ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
Another anti-inflammatory with tons of research behind it is curcumin; ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
"The NLRP3 protein is involved in a variety of inflammatory pathologies, including neurological and autoimmune disorders, lung diseases, atherosclerosis, myocardial infarction, and many others. Different functional foods may have preventive and therapeutic effects in a wide range of pathologies in which inflammasome proteins are activated. In this review, we have focused on curcumin and evidenced its therapeutic potential in inflammatory diseases such as neurodegenerative diseases, respiratory diseases, and arthritis by acting on the inflammasome."
Quercetin with bromelain is often recommended for asthma and allergies.
This is one I had for my son’s asthma when he was younger.
A word of caution about cinnamon, turmeric, and many of our healthy foods. I was taking cinnamon in my breakfast and turmeric supplements, plus lots of leafy greens, chia pudding, almond butter and almond yogurt, amaranth, etc..and my finger joints were getting increasingly inflamed. And i was wondering why i was getting some little nodules on some finger joints.I finally discovered by accident, that my diet was very high in oxalates. Like, REALLY high. My staples were some of the highest oxalate foods! Which are mostly known as a cause of kidney stones, but can affect the whole body, including causing osteoporosis and lower back pain.
If you've had kidney stones, or joint inflammation, or just want to dive down one more rabbit hole, I found the book "Toxic Superfoods" useful. Many people clear oxalates just fine, but others not so much. Anyway, I stopped cinnamon, turmeric, and other very high oxalate foods. Inflammation down a bit, but apparently the little monsters stay in your system for a long time.
There's some speculation in the carnivore diet world, that some people feel better on this diet because it essentially eliminates oxalates. Not that I'm going that route.....
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