Numerous studies point the way to preventing and tackling some of the most serious diseases. I have copied these two tables on the power of vitamin C. Imagine it in combination with other vitamins and nutrients.
1. SHOCKING STUDIES ON VITAMIN C.
HELLENBRAND (1996) - diet rich in vitamin C - 40% less risk of Parkinson's.
MARTIN (2002) - diet rich in vitamins C and E - reduced risk of Parkinson's.
FAHN (1992) - one year of vitamin C and E supplementation (3000 mg and 3200 IU) - delayed need for medication 2.5 years. - Parkinson's.
ZANDI (2004) - vitamin C and E supplementation together - reduced risk of Alzheimer's disease by up to 78 %.
ENSTROM (1992) - 800 mg vitamin C per day, 50% less risk of heart disease and lived 6 years longer than those taking 60 mg (the RDA in 1992). In women the risk was 30% lower.
LORIA (2000) - higher vitamin C level, 57% lower risk of death from any cause and 62% lower risk of dying from cancer.
JURASCHEK (2012) - hypertension - 500 mg/day - reduction in systolic and diastolic .3.84 mm Hg and .1.48 mm Hg.
MYINT (2008) - EPIC-Norfolk study (10-year cohort study of 20,649 adults) - higher plasma vitamin C levels had a 42% lower risk of stroke.
CHEN (2013) - 38% lower risk of stroke with the highest level of circulating vitamin C in the blood. Meta-analysis of 19 prospective cohort studies.
YOKOYAMA (2000) - Shibata study - stroke - higher vitamin C level, 29% lower risk.
KURL (2002) - stroke - lowest level of vitamin C, 2.4 times higher risk than highest level.
OYEBODE (2014) - 7 pieces of vegetables and fruits (about 200-300 mg vitamin C) - 42 % lower risk of death from all causes, 25 % lower risk of death from cancer and 31% less from heart attack and stroke.
AUNE (2017) - 10 pieces of vegetables and fruits (about 300-400 mg of vitamin C) - 31% lower risk of premature death, 13% lower risk of cancer and 24/33% lower risk of myocardial infarction and stroke.
JACQUES (1997) - cataracts - concentrations higher than 49 mmol/L (about 2 and a half pieces of fruit), 60%-70% risk reduction in all types of cataracts and use of supplementation for more than 10 years was associated with a 77-83% lower risk of cataracts.
***
And I find this other table very encouraging as well:
2. STUDY: DISEASE - EVERY CERTAIN AMOUNT MORE OF VITAMIN C - HIGHER PERCENTAGE REDUCTION OF RISK OF DEVELOPING IT.
HARRIS (2014) - breast cancer - with every 100 mg, 27 % less risk of death from all causes, 22 % less from breast cancer.
KHAW (2001) - all-cause death - with every 20 micromoles (a single piece or serving, 50 g of fruit and vegetables), 20 % lower risk.
PFISTER (2011) - heart failure - with every 20 mM/L, 9 % lower risk.
LUO (2014) - lung cancer - with every 100 mg, 7 % lower risk.
BO (2016) - oesophageal cancer - with every 50 mg, 13 % lower risk.
BAI (2015) - prostate cancer - with every 150 mg diet, 5% lower risk.
LAM (2013) - gastric cancer - with every 20-.mol/L, 14% lower risk.
BANDERA (2009) - endometrial cancer - with every 50 mg more, 15 % lower risk.
SUN (2018) - hip fracture risk - with every 50 mg, 5% lower risk.
SIMON (1999) - cataracts - every 1 mg/dl (57 micromoles/L, around 120 grams of fruit and vegetable), 26 % lower risk of cataracts.
HU (2014) - stroke - every 200 g of fruit, 32 % lower risk; every 200 g of vegetables, 11% lower risk.
OYEBODE (2014) - 7 pieces or servings of vegetables and fruit - all-cause mortality, compared to those eating less than 1 serving.
1 to 3 servings - 14% less risk
3 to 5 servings - 29% lower risk
5 to 7 servings - 36% lower risk
7 or more servings - 42% lower risk
SMIT (1999). asthma - with each additional 100 mg of vitamin C, there is a 10-50 mL in forced expiratory volume (spirometry) in 1 second.
Often, there is not much difference between the pursuit of general good health and the prevention of Parkinson's disease. Nor is there much difference between prevention and treatment itself.
-tables from my book in Spanish: "La revolución de la vitamina C". (The vitamin C revolution.)-
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parkinsonshereandnow
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The truth is that there are almost as many favourable as unfavourable studies on vitamin C (studies with tens of thousands of people find cardiovascular benefits and others do not, some in men and not in women, others in women and not in men, etc.***).
As the second study you link suggests, one strategy would be to use vitamin C along with iron chelators.
Vitamin C experts recommend taking the supplements outside of meals. I don't think that in reasonable doses as in the study by the famous neurologist Stanley Fahn in 1992 (3 grams per day) it is problematic for Parkinson's disease. Even less so if you take green tea, vitamin B1, etc.
One of the fathers of levodopa, Birkmayer, used iron as a treatment for Parkinson's (to reduce certain parkinsonian symptoms
such as disability and akinesia in studies published in 1986 and 1987. They regained remarkable mobility. Their disability score dropped from 90% to 30%. The effect of iron is dose-dependent and lasts 24-48 hours). Iron was then questioned, as was the case with selegiline.
However, I think it is better to be cautious: use natural sources, supplements, green tea, vitamin B1, magnesium, vitamin D3, etc.
There is so much to choose from that it doesn't seem necessary to gamble it all on a single card.
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***
Diversity of outcomes: heart disease and vitamin C
(food, supplements, men, women...).
Vitamin C from food does prevent, supplements do not.
A meta-analysis of 14 cohort studies concluded that intake of vitamin C from food, but not from supplements, was inversely related to heart disease risk (Ye 2008).
Vitamin C from supplements does prevent, food does not.
An analysis of 9 prospective cohort studies found that vitamin C from supplements (at or above 400 mg/day for 10 years on average), but not from food sources, was inversely related to heart disease (Kneckt 2004).
More effective in men than in women.
Men who took 800 mg vitamin C a day had a 50% lower risk of heart disease and lived 6 years longer than those taking 60 mg. In women the risk was 30% lower (Enstrom 1992).
Effective in women but not in men.
A large prospective cohort study found an inverse association between dietary vitamin C intake and heart disease mortality in Japanese women, but not in men (Kubota 2011).
Equally effective in men and women.
A study published in the American Heart Journal in 2011 found that every 20 micromol/litre (μmol/L) increase in vitamin C in blood plasma was associated with 9% lower mortality from heart failure. Plasma vitamin C, a biomarker reflecting fruit and vegetable intake, was inversely associated with heart failure risk in the healthy population (Pfister 2011).
Male-only study.
A study published in the "British Medical Journal", conducted with 1605 randomly selected middle-aged Finnish men (aged 42 to 60 between 1984 and 1989), without cardiovascular disease at the start of the study. Men who were deficient - less than 11.4 micromol/L (2.0 mg/L) - in vitamin C had 3.5 times more heart attacks than men who were not vitamin C deficient (13.2 % of heart attacks in the deficient group, only 3.8 % in the normal group). The authors' conclusion was that vitamin C deficiency - low plasma ascorbate concentration - is a risk factor for coronary heart disease. These results are particularly impressive because low plasma ascorbate was the strongest risk factor of all the factors measured (Nyyssonen 1997).
Study only with women (and only supplementation efficacy).
The study published in "Cardiology" in 2003 followed more than 85,000 female nurses for 16 years and found that those who took vitamin C supplements (360 mg) had an almost 30 % lower risk of developing heart disease. The number of deaths from heart disease each year is estimated at 950,000 (Osganian 2003).
“According to an article in The Healthy Home Economist, ascorbic acid is actually synthetic vitamin C, usually derived from GMO corn. And, there is a growing body of evidence that those consuming high doses of ascorbic acid should have reason to worry.Oct 8, 2018”
No offense intended but that page strikes me as unscientific gobbledygook.
It claims "ascorbic acid" and "vitamin C" are somehow different but this is a distinction without a difference. Moreover it alleges results from certain studies but does not give sufficient information to easily find them.
What does this even mean? "Instead of getting extra vitamin C through ascorbic acid, the article recommends non ascorbic acid vitamin C supplements"
I take calcium ascorbate, the calcium salt of ascorbic acid. Does that count as non-ascorbic acid? What if it originated as "synthetic" ascorbic acid made from corn?
--------------------------
Fact: Ascorbic acid is vitamin C and it has a particular molecular structure that is the same regardless of where it came from.
Most ascorbic acid is sourced from GMO corn. Gobbledygook ☺️ That is a great word. And you are right PB that I did not sight a good source. But, I recently learned that what is sold as vitamin C is very different from naturally occurring vitamin C and thus far in my learning I think it’s an important distinction. I don’t want to ingest GMO corn. As you state that “Ascorbic acid is vitamin C and it has a particular molecular structure that is the same regardless of where it came from.” But, I think sources are generally important. I think that avoiding something sourced from GMO corn might be a good idea.
I was taking EZ Melts vitamin C. they are too expensive and I don’t know the source. the vitamin C is magnesium ascorbate and ascorbic acid.
This, Source Naturals Non GMO, might be better than GMO derived corn sourced “vitamin C.”
Isn’t adding calcium a bad a idea PB? Why do you take a C with calcium? I believe the calcium ascorbate is about 10% calcium. But it does have better absorption so less is needed? Too much calcium, if in the brain, is a contributor to neuro degeneration.
And what about vitamin C’s effect on iron? That is very relevant. If the primary benefit of vitamin C is that it’s an antioxidant and anti inflammatory, aren’t there better antioxidants and anti inflammatory interventions? Quercitin is the first that comes to mind and trans Resveratrol. I think relying on vitamin C for this is a bit outdated.
Correct. Vitamin C has the benefit of being water soluble which I’m sure is part of its popularity as it does not have to be combined with a fat to increase absorption. But it is my opinion based on much reading on this that supplementing with anti oxidants like trans Resveratrol (if taken with a fat and not degraded) , Alpha Lipoic Acid, Ubiquinol (Co Q10) and others are far superior choices than Ascorbic Acid in supplement form. Getting vitamin C (ascorbic acid) from one’s diet is the best way to get vitamin C. I’m not convinced that indefinite or even long term supplementation with it, especially if from GMO corn, is a good idea.
For everybody and not just PWP, making sure calcium is properly processed by the body is essential. Vitamin K plus some cofactors are required to get calcium out of the bloodstream into the bones. If these are not present in adequate amounts calcium is deposited in the arteries instead of the bones, resulting in the double whammy of hardening of the arteries plus osteoporosis. In this circumstance the other place calcium is deposited is on the backs of the lower front teeth, as "calculus" to be scraped off by the dental hygienist. I wrote about all this in detail at my KosAbility blog:
Vitamins and Minerals for Bone Health and Reduced Risk of Cancer
Details of the vitamins and minerals that improve bone strength, reduce fracture risk, prevent hardening of the arteries, improve cardiovascular outcomes, and reduce cancer risk.
What You Need to Know to Reduce Risk of Hip Fracture and Cardiovascular Disease
Regarding Calcium, I’m concerned that high dose D3 even when supplementing with K, could be a neuro degenerative contributor. D deficiency contributes to neurological problems but that doesn’t mean the other extreme, high dose D is good. I believe the same is true of C.
Deficiencies are the problem but ongoing high does supplementation is unlikely to be beneficial and possibly detrimental.
Didn’t know that about the teeth regarding D. Thank you
Yes water soluble does not cause the same danger. But more is not always better or justified. For info on this: Antioxidant paradox , antioxidant capacity , and antioxidants effect on autophagy. (All previously mentioned above.) are recommended searches.
I’m going to give up on continuing with this. The above recommended three searches should help.
Okay, the link I provided was a bad choice. I should have sought a better one. But, my points have some relevance. what about vitamin C that is sourced from GMO corn, isn’t that concerning or does the source not matter? Genuine question. And, calcium ascorbate is about 10% calcium and shouldn’t we be avoiding excess calcium?
And, what about vitamin C’s effect on iron? We need to exercise caution with iron.
If the benefit of vitamin C is it’s anti oxidant and anti inflammatory action then that can be replicated by other means.
Always check the label and always buy from reputable sources. I would also highly recommend liquid C as PwP have digestive issues. One good one I have been using is Sunfood Liposomal Vitamin C. Not cheap, I used to get it on Amazon, but it is not available any more. I ordered it from their site.
The current version has additional vitamins which I don't want. Their older version was just Vitamin C. I have three bottles left of their older version of Vitamin C.
Does he take ALA, Ubiquinol , green tea, etc and other antioxidants? Just wondering why add vitamin C supplement when diet should be sufficient for C needs and there are better antioxidants. Sun foods probably added the other ingredients bc they are better than just dumping massive amounts of vitamin C. Obviously I check labels and buy from reputable sources.
I’m not convinced that adding ascorbic acid is a good idea
Yes, he takes all of these. They came up with this combination after COVID 19!
Vitamin C prevents atherosclerosis which my husband developed and caught it when his carotid artery was 99.9% blocked. A tiny piece launched into his eye. His ophthalmologist/DO, a rare find in our modern era, helped him with scheduling his stent procedure immediately after that appointment. He suggested Vitamin C to prevent future atherosclerosis. We are grateful to him.
Too many anti oxidants (anti oxidation) can be harmful. For example, antioxidants can decrease autophagy. search the term “antioxidant paradox” for more info on this.
ongoing high doses of one source, especially not an endogenous source, can be counter productive.
Since more is not better, we should select which antioxidants we take carefully. This is why I argue that there are better antioxidants than ongoing high doses of ascorbic acid.
“The body's 'total antioxidant capacity' seems unresponsive to high doses of dietary antioxidants, so that the amount of oxidative damage to key biomolecules is rarely changed. Indeed, manipulation of endogenous antioxidant levels (e.g. by supplying weak pro-oxidants) may be a more useful approach to treatment and prevention of diseases in which reactive oxygen species are important than is consumption of large doses of dietary antioxidants.”
The passage that you cited - merely that the effects of antioxidants are limited - is not a very strong argument. Vitamin C, which is ascorbic acid and its salts, is more than just an antioxidant. @JayPwP above linked to a reference documenting many essential functions. In addition, high levels of: "Vit C (25–300 µM) administration protected cells against glutamate excitotoxity "
Here is a strong argument against a particular supplement: A number of studies, both interventional and observational, demonstrate that ordinary levels of folate supplementation are highly carcinogenic. References set forth at my blog at KosAbility: Folate Supplementation Carcinogenic
My point remains: overloading antioxidants has very adverse effects as elaborated upon above. If you will delve in to this I’m confident you will appreciate my concern bc autophagy at least in spurts or periods of time is extremely important.
Regarding C, PB, I’m a convert. I’ve been doing my homework and now agree that supplementing with C is warranted. My initial thoughts on it were based on my initial research. But, overloading on antioxidants is a big concern as too much can decrease or stop our autophagy.
Regarding Folate, I have read your link and understand.
In case anyone else reading this is not aware, Gundry is no friend of mine. Anyone unfamiliar with Gundry is encouraged to read this knowledgeable review:
Abundant reason to not take anything Gundry has to say seriously.
It may be that antioxidants interfere with autophagy, but I have yet to see an actual reference from you, to a valid study, to support this. As to your suggestion up thread that I go search for one, it is the obligation of the person making claims to provide references.
Gundry agreed with you on the importance of Vitamin C. Therefore, your response is a little funny. “ Abundant reason to not take anything Gundry has to say seriously.”
“it is the obligation of the person making claims to provide references.” I and no one else on here is “obligated” to do anything other than be civil and not give medical advice. I shared what info I knew in the moment thinking others might find it worth looking in to. I’m sorry that was apparently below your standards.
Per the above link, there is abundant evidence that Gundry has systematically misrepresented studies to say what he wants them to say instead of what they actually do say. Why accord a person like that any credibility?
Why would you expect me to accord him any credibility just because we agree on some issue?
You can do whatever you like, but if you are going to tell me to go search for evidence to support your claims I am going to object.
“but if you are going to tell me to go search for evidence to support your claims I am going to object.”.
I never told you to do anything. I Just shared info I knew from memory and search terms in case anyone (not just you) was interested. Sorry that was triggering and offensive to you.
I have since provided multiple links in this thread that relate to what I initially stated.
I repeat my question which you have not answered - why accord Gundry any credibility in view of the evidence of his dishonesty?
Also you can post all the videos you like but I am not interested. I am not going to spend my time trying to evaluate the worth of somebody's opinion in a video. Valid medical studies are evidence. Opinions are not. If you want my attention you will need to link to a valid medical study.
The man in the video above is Dr. Ben Lynch the author of Dirty Genes.
I think proclaiming your disinterest is rather rude. You could just ignore things you aren’t interested in.
And when someone posts something without siting sources, getting offended and “objecting” is a bit rude. Other people also state things on this forum often without siting sources. Ignore me than.
The Gundry video was a joke. I thought that was obvious. I found it funny he agrees with you.
“ If you want my attention” No thanks, I really don’t after this hostility.
But, vitamin C is an antioxidant that can be a pro oxidant.
And no I don’t have any more sources I’m going to reference.
“The preventive power of vitamin C against numerous diseases, including Parkinson's disease.”That’s the Topic of the post by someone who has done a massive amount of research and is contributing a lot of information.
If you want to be taken “a little bit seriously” stay on the intended subject.
Stressing the body has benefits (balance must be achieved of course.). To better understand that more is not always better when it comes to antioxidants, in addition to learning about antioxidant overload, learning about HORMESIS is valuable. For example, fasting is HORMETIC, and can promote autophagy, but this is reduced if one has too many antioxidants leading up to and obviously during a fast. (Please note, I read a LOT but I’m just a laymen who is only 1 year in to researching the brain in any great depth.)
“recent human studies with antioxidant supplementation that have failed to show any improvement in health span. Moreover, other relevant evidence has pointed towards a beneficial role for ROS in lifespan under stress conditions, although how this is mediated and regulated inside the cell is not fully understood.”
Regarding there “being no winning.” I don’t agree. The complexity of our nervous system is amazing and beautiful. It’s like an ecosystem. Restoring Homeostasis should be our goal.
I took a look particularly at section 4.3 which lists adverse outcomes of allegedly antioxidant substances. I found this: "The results showed that the risk of breast cancer increased significantly (by 20%) in women who had a folic acid supplement (≥400 μg/day) whereas food folate intake was not associated with an increased risk." This is true and has nothing to do with folate being an "antioxidant". Folate supplementation is carcinogenic due to its promotion of cell division. I on reported this, with references, here: Folate Supplementation Carcinogenic tinyurl.com/ycdrz5lj
So it is not valid to lump a bunch of different compounds together merely because they are more or less antioxidant.
In addition this work suffers from biased reporting: "In a study made in Australia, 69 hypertensive patients with an ambulatory systolic pressure of >125 mmHg received treatment with Vitamin C (500 mg/day) and grape seed polyphenols (1000 mg/day) for 6 weeks. At the end of the treatment their systolic and diastolic pressures increased... [84]." This is true as far as it goes, but they failed to state that the vitamin C only arm of the study enjoyed reduced blood pressure.
It would be a straightforward, albeit time-consuming, exercise to go through these trials, compound by compound, to assess the effects of each. However, like the foregoing example, many of these trials involve multiple compounds, which adds immensely to the complexity. I may look into this further but I cannot promise.
“Antioxidants Vitamin C (12.5 mg/Kg) and N-acetylcysteine (10 mg/Kg) significantly increased the oxidative stress produced by acute exercise in healthy subjects. The effect was attributed to the conversion of ascorbic acid into the ascorbyl radical by reactive species generated during exercise”
Decided to take a holiday... No supplements today...
“Randomized placebo-controlled trials, which can provide the strongest evidence, offer little support that taking vitamin C, vitamin E, beta-carotene, or other single antioxidants provides substantial protection against heart disease, cancer, or other chronic conditions. The results of the largest trials have been mostly negative.”
“example, a cup of fresh strawberries contains about 80 mg of vitamin C, a nutrient classified as having high antioxidant activity. But a supplement containing 500 mg of vitamin C (667% of the RDA) does not contain the plant chemicals (polyphenols) naturally found in strawberries like proanthocyanins and flavonoids, which also possess antioxidant activity and may team up with vitamin C to fight disease. Polyphenols also have many other chemical properties besides their ability to serve as antioxidants. There is a question if a nutrient with antioxidant activity can cause the opposite effect with pro-oxidant activity if too much is taken. This is why using an antioxidant supplement with a single isolated substance may not be an effective strategy for everyone.”
My layman novice newbie take on that is that, like I said before, vitamin C supplements don’t confer the same benefits as dietary sources.
"This is why using an antioxidant supplement with a single isolated substance may not be an effective strategy for everyone.”
Does it include PwP?? I think all the evidence on supplements presented have not addressed PwP or any other neurological condition. It would be very interesting to find studies that address specific cohort.
PS. I am all for fruits and vegetables, but, on the other hand, a lot of PwP don't have them because of the "sugar" they contain. We never win!
Fruits are not the highest sources of dietary vitamin C. Parsley and green bell peppers have more C than oranges. (Stating from memory. Don’t have sources at the moment.). Btw parsley is also great for Apigenin. I posted this video above.
It was not up to some peoples standards but I like Dr. Ben Lynch and enjoyed his book Dirty Genes. Starting at 35 minutes vitamin C comes up but I enjoyed and learned from the whole video. (I work a lot so I rely on listening to videos while exercising. Etc, to supplement my learning )
" I was born and raised with parsley when all the experts probably had no idea of its benefits. My mother was using it a lot in almost anything under the sun. She and I were not aware of its qualities, yet it was/is such a tasty herb (plus oregano) that we used/use it a lot! We never investigated their benefits, it was just a cultural cuisine ingredient. We also used to go out to the country and pick oregano, thyme, and chamomile, along with enjoying pure air and oxygen. Of course that is a long time ago, now they are investigating everything that is edible and the secret of longevity in my country.
PS. I prepared a dish yesterday that included eggplants, zucchini, a variety of peppers (red, green yellow), small potatoes, garlic, oregano, and plenty of cilantro, unrefined mineral salt, black pepper, turmeric and olive oil. I added tomato sauce and finely cut tomatoes. I baked it in the oven at 325 F. It was delicious and healthy, especially good for hubby's motility (after 4 years post diagnosis, he hasn't experienced any constipation). Of course, it took me all morning to prepare this dish, but that is a cultural thing, again!
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