High Dose of B vitamins (B1, B2, B3 and B... - Cure Parkinson's

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High Dose of B vitamins (B1, B2, B3 and B5) in Parkinson Disease

Somic67 profile image

Hi everyone.

Reading about the B1 therapy of Doc Constantini also on this forum, I ask myself (and to everybody) if the others B vitamins (in addition to B1), involved in Krebs Cycle (see pic - vit. B1, B2, B3 and B5) may have a similar/sinergic effect on Parkinson Disease.

Any ideas/info/experience/prospective on this?

I don't even know if Costantini ever tried.

Many thanks in advance

46 Replies

You must consider that current knowledge of cell chemistry is very poor. We tend to treat the human body as a kind of test tube where adding or removing chemicals can duplicate the function of cellular life. But there is life in the cell that meant intelligence, purpose, adequate structure and direction. IMO we are in the prehistory of biology.

Kia17 profile image
Kia17 in reply to Gioc

👏👏👏

Im no expert but I recently started taking super b complex on days I have to work, with excellent results!

pdkid profile image
pdkid in reply to bassofspades

What complex are you taking and what results have you found?! Currently, my dad separately takes B1, B6 + B12

bassofspades profile image
bassofspades in reply to pdkid

I think its nature made super b complex

The B vitamins are all part of one complex: they fit together. I became convinced after reading this paper.

res.mdpi.com/d_attachment/n...

I have therefore added a high potency Vitamin B capsule to my spouse - PWP - daily meds along with Vitamin B1 so heavily promoted on this site.

Can I see the benefits i.e. reduction of symptoms! No. But the understanding I gleaned from this paper makes me put it in her pill box every day.

Full disclosure: Vitamin B complex do give me a lift on down times. So I just might be prejudiced 🌺

Gioc profile image
Gioc in reply to CaseyInsights

add a good dose of minerals and you will still have some benefits, possibly from fresh fruit and vegetables because I don't know of a good quality multimineral supplement. Maybe someone else can help us.

CaseyInsights profile image
CaseyInsights in reply to Gioc

Of course Gioc - trace minerals are ‘on the daily menu’ along with papaya or pineapple. Coconut water - major source of electrolytes - is on the menu almost every day.

Magnesium supplement - Calm - along with probiotics and prebiotics and a touch of apple cider vinegar starts of the Monday to Friday routine.✌🏾

Somic67 profile image
Somic67 in reply to Gioc

do you take a vit B complex supplement? if yes, is it high potency or std one (eventually the name?)

re multimineral: have you ever heard of Quinton Marine Plasma and "isotonic" sea water (or made by raw sea salt) as multi-mineral supplement (and for gut health)?

Gioc profile image
Gioc in reply to Somic67

b complex only occasionally.

No never used, what makes it different from the big multimineral pill, stock fund with little market?

Somic67 profile image
Somic67 in reply to Gioc

sorry for this late answer .... i lost it

complex B: sorry I missunderstood your comment

multi-mineral vs sea water (for improved flavor)_

Pros: natural, very cheap (approx 4€ for 2 Lt usefull for 20 "drinks"), with full mineral spectrum at a concentration that is very close to the blood plasma. it has many uses (drinking as isotonic water (just add 3 parts of pure water), clean theets, if isotonic regulate gut and digstion, pure used to cause diarrhea, mineralization and last but not list, cooking (mainly fish but not only)

Cons: must be food grade, not easy to find

hope this helps. lt me know if you have more questions.

regards,

Gioc profile image
Gioc in reply to Somic67

Ty

Hi Somic67,

I am taking all 8 B vitamins early in the AM. This makes a big difference. In a few minutes after taking them I feel relaxed, no tremor, no stiffness for a few hours. This allows me to postpone the first dose of Carb/Levo/Ent until10 AM being symptoms free.

Somic67 profile image
Somic67 in reply to keepsie

interesting.

can you tell me the dosage (mg of each vit B) in your B complex (or a link to it) and your actual meds regimen?

keepsie profile image
keepsie in reply to Somic67

B1 as Thiamin HCL - 500 mg;

B2 as Riboflavin-5-Phosphate - 10 mg;

B3 as Niacinamide - 500 mg;

B5 as Panthethine - 450 mg;

B6 as Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate - 2 mg;

B9 as Calcium Folinate - 800 mcg;

B12 as Hydroxocobalamin - 2000 mcg;

Somic67 profile image
Somic67 in reply to keepsie

thank you very much.

it seems a special mix, high in most of the B vitamines except than for B6.

is this intentional?

do you buy it somewhere?

keepsie profile image
keepsie in reply to Somic67

You are welcome! There is B6:

B6 as Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate - 2 mg;

I buy everything, except B1, on amazon.com.

Somic67 profile image
Somic67 in reply to keepsie

thank you again. I'm intrigued by your mix of B's vitamin.

may i ask you where did you take the quantity of B6 (ie 2mg of B6)?

is it related (custmised) to your therapy (for example the quantity of Carbidpa you take in a day)

ElliotGreen profile image
ElliotGreen in reply to Somic67

BTW, Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate is the good kind of B6 supplement. At higher doses, you're less likely to have trouble with it in comparison to pyridoxine, which is the more common form of b6 supplement.

keepsie profile image
keepsie in reply to keepsie

Hi Somic67 ! :) It was a trial and error approach. First I tried to take a higher doze of B6. It was 6 mg originally, but I couldn't tolerate that much, so I gradually tuned it down to 2 mg. You may have a better tolerance towards B6. I used the same approach with the rest of the vitamins. BTW, B6 dose is in mg, 1000 mcg = 1 mg (just in case you didn't take this into account). :)

Somic67 profile image
Somic67 in reply to keepsie

Thank you.

What do you mean with “not tollerated that much”. Which kind of problems were you having?

What were you controlling with the other vitamins To determine the right amount for you? Stomac, bowel, gut, energy, mood, general well-being, ...?

Yes. I got the mcg and mg unit of measurement ;)

keepsie profile image
keepsie in reply to Somic67

Higher doses of B6 were giving me fatigue, headache, nausea, light sensitivity, and dizziness.

With the vitamins I am trying to control my PD symptoms.

Gioc profile image
Gioc in reply to keepsie

Very good ,I change only b3 in b3 niacin flush, and take a break sometimes

Somic67 profile image
Somic67 in reply to Gioc

yes, i agree. it seems a well ponderated mix. I'm wondering (actually investigating) at which level B6 can be increased without much interfering with carbidopa.

C/B6 = 1/1 didn't work for me (my current C/L ratio "was" approx. 1/20 for approx 1000/1200 mg LD in 16 hrs; then stop for 8 hrs) I had to increase (duplicate) carbidopa as therapy lost effectiveness and this makes no sense to me.

So I'm looking for another C / B6 ratio to get both benefits. I know that emivita of B6 is much longer than of C (15 days vs 15 hours), therefore this may indicate that B6 can be less than C and still have a meaningful result.

any suggestion from anyone? :D

Gioc profile image
Gioc in reply to Somic67

Parkbear is the most expert in this subject.

he has written numerous posts on the subject of b6 and its interactions with c / L.

keepsie profile image
keepsie in reply to Gioc

Hi GioCas, please tell me more about your experience with Niacin and which form you are taking. I added it recently and so far it didn't give me any problem. I am a bit concerned about its effect on the methylation process.

Gioc profile image
Gioc in reply to keepsie

Hi keepsie

I think you find interesting this post:

scienceofparkinsons.com/201...

scienceofparkinsons.com/201...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

healthunlocked.com/user/sil...

healthunlocked.com/parkinso...

keepsie profile image
keepsie in reply to Gioc

Thanks a lot!

Lizzy9 profile image
Lizzy9 in reply to Somic67

Hello Somic67 ~ I know you didn't ask for my input, but I thought I'd let you know the B Complex that we take and have been for a few years now. We (husband is the PwP) take Thorne Basic B complex. I am only mentioning this because we saw 2 different ND's that said it was a "good" one. I buy it from Amazon.

Have a fabulous day!!!!

i totally agree with a B complex! It gets me thru the midday slump! (If I could , I would take it 2x/day)!

Somic67 profile image
Somic67 in reply to healthabc

thank you,

can you tell me the dosage (mg of each vit B) in your B complex (or a link to it) ?

Try Hardys daily essential nutrients. They have minerals as well as vitamins in clinical doses plus other useful compounds

hardynutritionals.com/produ...

he tried........ i was one of the last contacts......krebs cycle.....how many NADH's does it take to make one ATP?........................sorry im a scientist................cheers nice citric acid cycle diagram thank you! the IM self injections are brutal for me but it definatly reduces symptoms imo. i have been approved for sub-q apomorhine for breakout suffocation issues.....

I take forms of B1, B6, B9, and B12. Haven't given much thought to 2, 3, or 5. (I was taking an expensive form B3 for awhile but I couldn't afford to keep taking that.)

I do think some caution is merited. There are correlation studies that do find some adverse health outcomes related to high doses of some B vitamins.

There was a study that found women who take high doses of B6, B12, or both, had some negative outcome (maybe something to do with bones? I'd have to find the article).

The most common form of B6 supplement is not the active form. Taken in high doses, it may actually compete with the active form of B6 and cause symptoms that are similar to B6 deficiency.

B9 can be good for you, and a deficiency is definitely bad. B9 is a supplement that can lower homocysteine (sp?) levels. This is pertinent to people with Parkinson's, because Levodopa can raise homocysteine levels, and high levels of homocysteine are connected to higher risks of getting heart disease and dementia. HOWEVER, higher levels of B9 were found in one study to be associated with a greater risk of colon cancer in some instances. (Basically they thought that if you have proto-tumors, B9 helps them grow faster.) As with other B vitamins, B9 comes in more than one form.

Somic67 profile image
Somic67 in reply to ElliotGreen

thank you for the uefull hints. i'll keep in mind during B's testing ;)

I agree with you. too much is not good as there is always an upper limit where a substance brings negative effects)

Hi, I‘m taking Nicotinamid-Ribosid (B3), because it showed good results in studies with mices (University of Tübingen), since 2 years, and I‘m feeling pretty fine, even augmented my 70%-job to 100 %... PD disgnosed 2013, also taking nicotin-chewing gums and Madopar.

ElliotGreen profile image
ElliotGreen in reply to Davor1

Otherwise known by the trade name Niagen, an expensive supplement that I couldn't afford to keep taking.

How much do you take?

Here's the paper for anyone interested.

The NAD+ Precursor Nicotinamide Riboside Rescues Mitochondrial Defects and Neuronal Loss in iPSC and Fly Models of Parkinson's Disease. 2018.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/298...

Davor1 profile image
Davor1 in reply to ElliotGreen

Dear ElliotGreen, yes, it‘s about this study. I‘m taking 600mg daily. And you‘re right, it‘s quite expensive! But it‘s this Niagen they used for the studies in Tübingen...kind regards, Danielle

Somic67 profile image
Somic67 in reply to Davor1

Hi Davor1. You wrote "nicotin-chewing gums".

Do you use them for symptoms control or general health?

(I read of a nicotine-patch therapy in France years ago, to replace dopamine with nicotin that was promising.)

Hi Sonic67, I read from studies about nicotine preventing PD, so I started chewing gums. No idea whether it helps, but especially when my Madopars efficiency comes to an end and I get some kind of Dyskinesia, it helps. Or at least I believe it helps. And believing itself is helping, as we all know, don‘t we? 😀

Somic67 profile image
Somic67 in reply to Davor1

Yes for sure (pls apologies the lightly late answer :D )

After Dr. Constantini died I decided to try the B1 treatment myself. I want to believe his findings that it helps with constipation ( I am NEVER constipated) but most of all I want help with saliva problems at night. I have no problems during the day but around 4 am am woken up with terrible problems re the consistency and volume of "stuff" that will not be swallowed. I love my bed (I am 76 and have always slept well but not any more). I have now added B12 to my regime as it is supposed to guard against dementia! I will post my results.

JayPwP profile image
JayPwP in reply to Art_lover45

B12 methyl or cyano?

in reply to Art_lover45

Demented yet?🙂

I study B3 for PD. Google niacin and parkinson's to read more about it.

Somic67 profile image
Somic67 in reply to Neuron2

Thank you I did it but could not find anything that changed PwP life

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