PS128 VS Bacillus Subtilis PXN21

[Bolt_Upright]

PS128 VS Bacillus Subtilis PXN21

2022/01/27 - 19:12

I had conflated these two items and, maybe unfairly, discounted one or both of them. Let's sort this out:

PS128:

The Add-On Effect of Lactobacillus plantarum PS128 in Patients With Parkinson's Disease: A Pilot Study June 2021 frontiersin.org/articles/10...

Background: Lactobacillus plantarum PS128 (PS128) is a specific probiotic, known as a psychobiotic, which has been demonstrated to alleviate motor deficits and inhibit neurodegenerative processes in Parkinson's disease (PD)-model mice. We hypothesize that it may also be beneficial to patients with PD based on the possible mechanism via the microbiome-gut-brain axis.

Methods: This is an open-label, single-arm, baseline-controlled trial. The eligible participants were scheduled to take 60 billion colony-forming units of PS128 once per night for 12 weeks. Clinical assessments were conducted using the Unified Parkinson's Disease Rating Scale (UPDRS), modified Hoehn and Yahr scale, and change in patient “ON-OFF” diary recording as primary outcome measures. The non-motor symptoms questionnaire, Beck depression inventory-II, patient assessment of constipation symptom, 39-item Parkinson's Disease Questionnaire (PDQ-39), and Patient Global Impression of Change (PGI-C) were assessed as secondary outcome measures.

Results: Twenty-five eligible patients (32% women) completed the study. The mean age was 61.84 ± 5.74 years (range, 52–72), mean disease duration was 10.12 ± 2.3 years (range, 5–14), and levodopa equivalent daily dosage was 1063.4 ± 209.5 mg/daily (range, 675–1,560). All patients remained on the same dosage of anti-parkinsonian and other drugs throughout the study. After 12 weeks of PS128 supplementation, the UPDRS motor scores improved significantly in both the OFF and ON states (p = 0.004 and p = 0.007, respectively). In addition, PS128 intervention significantly improved the duration of the ON period and OFF period as well as PDQ-39 values. However, no obvious effect of PS128 on non-motor symptoms of patients with PD was observed. Notably, the PGI-C scores improved in 17 patients (68%). PS128 intervention was also found to significantly reduce plasma myeloperoxidase and urine creatinine levels.

Conclusion: The present study demonstrated that PS128 supplementation for 12 weeks with constant anti-parkinsonian medication improved the UPDRS motor score and quality of life of PD patients. We suggest that PS128 could serve as a therapeutic adjuvant for the treatment of PD. In the future, placebo-controlled studies are needed to further support the efficacy of PS128 supplementation.

Mixed reports on PS128 at HU:

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

$192 for 3 boxes. Each box says it is a 30 day supply, but the boxes do not say how many capsules are in them, and the instructions say to take 1 or 2 (and sometimes 1 to 3) capsules, so a box might only have 10 days worth: solaceprobiotic.com/product...

Seems kind of pricey to me

Bacillus Subtilis PXN21 - BioKult

Probiotic Bacillus subtilis Protects against α-Synuclein Aggregation in C. elegans January 2020 ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/a...

Summary: Recent discoveries have implicated the gut microbiome in the progression and severity of Parkinson’s disease; however, how gut bacteria affect such neurodegenerative disorders remains unclear. Here, we report that the Bacillus subtilis probiotic strain PXN21 inhibits α-synuclein aggregation and clears preformed aggregates in an established Caenorhabditis elegans model of synucleinopathy. This protection is seen in young and aging animals and is partly mediated by DAF-16. Multiple B. subtilis strains trigger the protective effect via both spores and vegetative cells, partly due to a biofilm formation in the gut of the worms and the release of bacterial metabolites. We identify several host metabolic pathways differentially regulated in response to probiotic exposure, including sphingolipid metabolism. We further demonstrate functional roles of the sphingolipid metabolism genes lagr-1, asm-3, and sptl-3 in the anti-aggregation effect. Our findings provide a basis for exploring the disease-modifying potential of B. subtilis as a dietary supplement.

So... it seems to inhibit α-synuclein aggregation in worms. That's not nothing.

Mixed (mostly meh) reviews on HU (and nothing very current): healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

$26 for 60 capsules does not sound bad. The box says 2 capsules per serving and somebody said company suggested taking 2 servings a day, so that makes it $26 for 2 weeks: amazon.com/Bio-Kult-Mind-Pr...

Still too steep for a price for me, given the lack of evidence

[gaga1958]

what's wrong with the Bio-Kult brand if you want the PS128 in it?

[Bolt_Upright in reply to gaga1958]

I don't think there is anything wrong with Bio-Kult.

I only have a high school degree and I have to make choices. For me, neither one of these makes my list. There is a great chance my judgement is wrong on this (as it is on many things).

[Boscoejean in reply to gaga1958]

I think the Biokult has the bacillus subtilis pxn21 and the Solace has the PS 128

[Michel0220]

Thank you very much Bolt for taking the time to put this very interesting summary together. I agree with you that those products are not cheap and that it is hard to go ahead with such a program on a long term basis without strong evidence (there seems to be some for PS 128). I started taking PS128 in September last year. Although it is hard to attribute specific improvements in motor symptoms to it, my digestion has generally improved which can’t be a bad thing. Thanks again

Michel

[gaga1958 in reply to Michel0220]

Which product do you use for ps128?

[PDTom in reply to Michel0220]

PS128 Probiotikum für das Darmmikrobiom, ich nehme es seit dem 15. Juli zweimal täglich, 2021.

[Michel0220]

Hi Gaga. Synergia Neurobiotique.

[LeharLover62]

Thanks for sharing! Hubby started DE111 5 Billion CFU Bacillus Subtilis Probiotics Gummies ($.33/day) daily back in November. He also switched over to Macuna at the same time. One or both completely resolved his constipation! It’s been really wonderful…no more Miralax, no more bloating, fewer ups and downs (he always felt crappy when he was constipated).

Maybe when we finish tweaking other things we’ll try the PS128 as well.

[pmmargo]

I actually tried the specified variety of bacillus subtilis and did not notice any difference.

I wonder if I gave it enough time and will be interested in what others say.

[marthasquest]

I have spoken to people at Solace. The science behind it is excellent and the Scientist who has worked on this for many years has a true "heart". I can't find the link about him right now. I make a probiotic that I started making for my husband with PD and it contains a strain of L.plantarum. I talked to them about including their strain in with ours but it did not work out. I like them and their research. Clinical trials are expensive and that is likely part of why it is more expensive but this is not expensive to produce so their margins are likely high. I have also connected the researchers on the B. subtitis. That strain is owned by Archers Daniel Midland and the product contains zinc. Taking zinc without copper can be problematic. Zinc and copper have a delicate relationship. Copper imbalance has been associated with PD. Copper is needed in the body in small amounts to control the movement of iron in and out of the tissues. Iron is a long studied problem in PD. So be careful of anything with only zinc or only iron without appropriate research on the proper ratios. I believe I recall it is either 15-1 or 15-2 ratio of zinc to copper. You can get B.subtilis in other formulas. There is another strain of B. subtilis that is called DE111 - that is the one we use. It has not been studied in PD but has quite a bit of clinical research behind it. I have a Ted Talk about PD and the microbiome "Do Gut Bacteria Predict or Cause diseases like Parkinson's". You can find it on YouTube. I am a citizen scientist who has studied this for 20 years since my husband was diagnosed. I am now a fairly well known expert in PD and the microbiome. I also have a PD specific blog called marthasquest so you can see other things that I write about PD and alternative and supporting therapies.

[marthasquest in reply to marthasquest]

Also I generally do not trust the big food and big ag companies and Bio-Kult comes from ADM who has a long history of delivering food ingredients that has damaged our guts. I will give them some credit that perhaps they are trying to fix the problem but the fact that there is Zinc in the product gives me pause. Take a look at the Root Cause Protocol and Magnesium group on Facebook and you will start to understand the Zinc -Copper - Iron connections.

[Hidden in reply to marthasquest]

Hi Martha, I’m delighted you are here on HU. I listened to your Ted talk a long time ago. I will listen to it again! I want to learn about the zinc copper connection but am staying off of Facebook. Is there any other means? I just found the info below. Not sure if this is what you are referring to.

Root cause protocol

[yellowhumpy in reply to Hidden]

Thanks for the kind words on my TedTalk. I have a talk on Parkinson’s of the Tockies YouTube on Parkinson’s snd the Gut Microbiome from last year. You can go to the website rcp123.org to learn more about the copper-zinc- iron - magnesium puzzle. I don’t go to Facebook much either so I understand your aversion to going there to participate.

[Fumaniron]

I’ve been taking Bio-Kult last few months. Not sure if it helps or not…

[Tucker_AA]

I made yogurt with PXN 21 and getting ready to make yogurt with PS128. HWP has improved with PS128. Better movement, sleep and mood.