Re magnesium and potassium... You need more than 'normal levels'.
From Elliot Overton the nutritionist well known from Youtube.
"When you take such high doses of B1, it increases enzymatic activity, increasing the requirment for the other enzymatic cofactors including minerals and B vitamins. Magnesium is a key example. But another point is that the processes which are upregulated have downstream effects on other nutrients like potassium. In many cases, thiamine can be intolerable or even ineffective without taking the other nutrients." The recommendation is for 300-400 mg magnesium and 500-2000 mg potassium per day along with a B complex, to support your high dose thiamine protocol.
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Dap1948
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Let me make sure I understand this. I take 144 mg of magnesium that comes from 2000mg Magtein magnesium L threonate, so I need to double my intake? Also, I get 375 mg of K from 922 , mg from potassium bicarbonate, so I also need to double my intake?
Dr C suggested a smaller dose of magnesium so if you’re having no side effects, like cramp, I should stick with what you’re taking. I’m not sure what ‘of K’ is. I take ionic potassium which is liquid and then I can easily vary the dose. Sorry I don’t think I’ve been much help!
Thanks, Daphne! I'll also see you on FB. I take my potassium, along with sodium and Vit. C in powder form that gets mixed in with water. basically, I try to maintain my electrolytes so I don't get let, toe cramps. I rarely get those cramps anymore. Also, as I sadi above, I take Magnesium L threonate.
Husband takes Dr. Dean's ReMyte (minerals). Total amount of Potassium is 99mg (2.8%) per dose which I believe is low, especially for those with frequent urination problems. I now believe that he has to increase Potassium. Dr. Mischley recommended No Salt instead of regular table salt. He still doesn't use the right dose of No Salt (1/2 tsp in water). He just sprinkles some on his food. Therefore, I am ordering Potassium supplement and hope it helps with his frequent urination problem.
Thank you, Daphne! According to Dr. Mischley PwP should take supplements in the liquid form due to digestive problems with absorption of nutrients.
No, Mg, Bioptomizers, is the brand name with several forms of Magnesium, including Bisglycinate. He hasn't started Citicoline yet, he will after he finishes BodyBio phospholipids. The combination is Phospholipids+Uridine+Ω3, Tue, Wednesday and Friday. On Mondays and Thursdays he takes Hup.
I think too much of anything can be dangerous! I read that the recommended daily intake of potassium was 3,500 mg. Elliot Overton’s suggested supplementation was way below that. I take ionic minerals and the manufacturer suggests you put a potassium dose into 8 ounces of distilled water and drink some. If you can’t taste it or it tastes sweet, you need it, while if it tastes bitter, you don’t!Interestingly, when I read a list of hypokalemia (low potassium) symptoms, I ticked a lot of boxes including arrhythmia, muscle cramps, frequent urination...
Are you still using the Bodybio potassium? Is it the potassium phosphate drops? I take Bodybios sodium butyrate which I think covers my sodium needs. It has 313 mg.
Side note I just purchased their liposomal phospholipid complex.
Healthline.com
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) limits over-the-counter potassium chloride supplements to less than 100 mg per serving — just 2% of the U.S. daily recommendation (31).
However, that doesn’t apply to other forms of supplements that contain potassium.
Taking too much of this mineral can cause excess amounts to build up in the blood, which is known as hyperkalemia. In some cases, this may cause an irregular heartbeat, called cardiac arrhythmia, which can be fatal (32Trusted Source, 33Trusted Source).
Furthermore, studies have found that potassium supplements that provide high doses may damage the lining of the gut (34, 35).
However, people who are deficient or at risk for deficiency may require a high-dose potassium supplement. In these cases, your healthcare provider may prescribe a higher-dose supplement and monitor you for any reactions.
Since I started the B1 therapy for it appears you need to take 3 extra for it to be successful 1) some other vitamins B, possibly an allrounder
2) Magnesium
3) potassium
How important are these? Are they necessary and what are the best, and strength?
I am slightly confused, and will there likely to be more supplements added?
Also can you get sub lingual B1,as I am getting over taking tablets as they keep getting stuck on my tongue and am finding it more difficult to swallow them.?
Dr C only mentioned adding magnesium and adding B complex when your ideal dose had been found. I’ve added some potassium because I was getting low potassium symptoms which the magnesium wasn’t taking away. These extra supplements are worth considering if you’re not having success with the B1 protocol or if you have side effects.You could try these sublingual tablets. I have taken them successfully for over four years, but you won’t need much. I should start with one tablet a day. The routine is, drink some water, wait ten minutes, put tablet under tongue, try not to swallow and wait 30 minutes while the melted mush passes through the skin to the bloodstream! pureformulas.com/no-shot-b-... I hope this helps
I just ordered the same b1 you take but I am sensitive to magnesium. Will it be safe to take this without magnesium? I try to get magnesium and potassium from food.
I don’t know if you will have enough magnesium from food to help the B1 work.
Plan A could be to see if B1 does work without supplementing with magnesium. Perhaps your body has enough or gets enough from food. You can but trial it. I’m
Plan B would be to take a very small dose of magnesium and see if it upsets you. I’m sensitive to magnesium and just take 117mg a day of magnesium malate.
Thiamine mononitrate is slightly less water soluble than thiamine hydrochloride and therefore if you take it in large quantities and have a tendency to get kidney stones, there is a slight chance it can cause a stone. However, thiamine mononitrate has been passed by food regulators as safe to use as a food additive, so we’re probably consuming it without our knowledge. The amount which would pass through to kidneys when using sublingual B1 correctly is incredibly small and consequently of no danger.
So I got the thiamine in the mail. I cut the pill in half. I was going to quarter it but they are quite crumbly. I took one half. I did not swallow. I started to get internal trembling, shaky, tachycardia, just feeling kind of weird. I've had this happen with B12. Needless to say I'm deficient in several things and healing is quite a challenge. I think these reactions are because I need it. I was able to work my way up with b12. But if course when it happens I get nervous to continue. I have been taking 100 mg thiamine mononitrate in my b complex without issue. Any guidance on this? I don't want to overdo it and cause harm. The symptoms seemed to pass relatively quickly but I don't want to take a huge dose, crash, and overwhelm myself. Should starting lower and working my way up be alright? Is there a Facebook group? The ones I've found seem to only push their preferred thiamine and have nothing good to say about mononitrate. I can't get assistance there.
Firstly, the Facebook group is ‘Parkinson’s B1 therapy’, which I administer. You’ll be very welcome.
Your reaction to 50mg of sublingual B1 concerns me. You don’t want that reaction! One thought… do you take B-complex? When you take high doses of any b vitamin it can knock the other b vitamins out, so nutritionists always recommend taking a B-complex vitamin to balance the other b vitamins. On our Facebook group we now recommend starting both magnesium and B-complex 2-4 weeks before starting B1. We have a lot of documents on the Facebook group under ‘Files’ about these supplements.
If you’re already taking those other supplements, you could try a quarter tablet or try thiamine hydrochloride in the oral version of B1. Let me know …
Thank you so much! I sent a request for the group and look forward to joining.
I have had to stop magnesium supplements per doctor. Not tolerating them so eating high magnesium foods. I was taking a b complex. It's by nature made avd has 100 mg thiamine mononitrate in it. I took that without issue but after yesterday I stopped.
I had the save experience when correcting a b12 deficiency. So I dropped the dose and worked my way up.
I mean it shouldn't be dangerous this reaction right? I think it's just because I need it but I also have other things going on so maybe a coincidence. I guess I should restart the b complex. Do you think that will be fine?
I did take a lower dose today of the sublingual and did fine and I'm about to take another dose. I guess at this point I will try to just dose it in smaller portions throughout the day. This will require a lot of eating lol.
What is the ratio of b1 and magnesium, potassium ,other b vitamins? I started b1 at 500mgs. I have been working with a functional medicine dr/nutritionist, pharmacist since 2017. I take many supplements which include b complex,( Which includes b1) )multivitamins, minerals , magnesium complex, supercal plus and osteoguard, NAC, CoQ10,ultrazyme, probiotics, Lipolic acid, tumeric , D3 and C(adrenal, cortisol high, heavy metal detox- homeopathic). I have osteoporosis in addition. Is there someone in the group that may be able to tell me what other vitamins and how much with 500mg b1? I'm also concerned that dairy is bad for Parkinson's, but I am being encouraged to increase dairy for osteoporosis. I take 1 c/l Sinemet (25-100 mg )every 8 hrs. and 5mg baclofen Is there anyone in the group that could provide guidance. Thanks
It might be worth mentioning that Dr. Lonsdale has suggested the use of a B-vitamin multi when using HDT to prevent side effects from a B1 bias. He reported in his own self testing that using HDT caused him rapid onset muscle pain that was quickly relieved with a B-vitamin multi. Probably B-50 or B-100 supplementation might fill this requirement that he mentioned.
He must have considered it important as he took the time to write about it and I think he has an international following so his words are likely read by many.
Here is a relevant quote from his article :
>>> ' For some time I had been taking 100 mg of TTFD a day and one tablet of B complex. I raised the dose of TTFD to 200 mg a day without raising the dose of B complex to see if I could perceive any difference in what I experienced. After about a month with this dose, I was getting into bed one evening and was suddenly afflicted with the worst pain in my left leg that I had ever experienced. It appeared to be muscular pain because any movement would sharply increase the pain and often cause me to cry out involuntarily. Sleep was of course impossible and at about 3 AM, one night last week, I remembered a manuscript that I had come across that purported to relieve pain by an injection of vitamins B1, B6, and B12, administered separately or in combination. I took three tablets of B complex (three times the previous daily dose) and about 15 minutes later I noticed some diminution in the pain. I waited a while before repeating the dose of B complex twice more and within about 45 minutes I was pretty well pain free. It was a shattering experience that demanded some form of explanation, if possible. ' <<<
Hello Daphnie - thank you, again, for writing the book & forming the facebook group. My HwP started the B-1 protocol around 2 years ago. Started high. Stopped, started lower @ 1 - 500 mg capsule is summer of 2022. Then, after a few months, we added 1 more 500 mg capsule. We stopped the magnesium and all B-comples supplements after reading the book, waiting to find our optimal dose. After reading all of these comments, should we add back in the b-complex and the magnesium?
I also just ordered the potassium mentioned above.
it’s a shame you stopped the b-complex and the magnesium because we are now recommending that people get those two established before starting B1! Not to worry! The point is not to start anything else new which might affect symptoms while trialling B1 to find your/his right dose. As he was already on them it wouldn’t have been ‘something else new’. We are not pushing potassium currently, Elliot might but on the Facebook group we just suggest b-complex and magnesium, in line with Dr C.
I’ve used it for 5 plus years! You do need to let the dissolved tablet and saliva stay in your mouth for about 30 minutes before swallowing to allow it to pass through the mucous membrane into your bloodstream. Most people find one tablet a day too much and I would recommend just three tablets a week to start with.
I don’t take any as i don’t appear to be deficient. It’s not a part of the therapy which, as far as Dr C was concerned had just three components, B1, B-complex and magnesium. If you are deficient I should take it!
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