Effects of concomitant use of hydrogen wa... - Cure Parkinson's

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Effects of concomitant use of hydrogen water and photobiomodulation on Parkinson disease 2021

Bolt_Upright profile image
74 Replies

Update 8/30/21: I ordered a hydrogen water generator ($180): H2 USB Sport MAXX Hydrogen Water Generator with Glass Bottle and Inhaler Adapter (Silver) Brand: H2WaterForLife amazon.com/gp/product/B07FK...

I also spent $25 on H2Blue Hydrogen Test Reagent so I can make sure this thing works before the return window closes!

Original Post:

First interesting thing in this study is that it seems to work, especially with non-motor symptoms:

Results:

We noted that the UPDRS scores began significantly decreasing from the first week, and this improvement persisted until the end of therapy. Moreover, no adverse event was recorded. After 1 week of therapy cessation, UPDRS scores slightly increased but the improvement remained significant compared with the baseline.

Conclusion:

This novel, proof-of-concept study demonstrated that PBM+H2 therapy is safe and reduces disease severity. A larger-scaled clinical trial is warranted to completely investigate the effects of PBM + H2 therapy on PD.

Second interesting thing is they used what seems to be a fairly simple photobiomodulation device (self designed) pointed at the base of the back of the head and the treatment was 30 minutes (I've been doing 10 minutes per the instructions that came with my lamp).

Here is the complete study: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

74 Replies

What lamp did you get?

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright in reply to

ebay.com/itm/283586857898 $40 on ebay.

in reply to Bolt_Upright

Thanks!

park_bear profile image
park_bear

Hydrogen is poorly soluble, as a result, not much hydrogen in the hydrogen water - a total of one milligram for the apparent daily dose of two 200 milliliter cans.

A pity that the most important result - the UPDRS scores - presented so poorly in some fuzzy charts.

This is an uncontrolled study. Consequently it includes a placebo effect of unknown magnitude.

in reply to park_bear

I have not found any studies that show efficacy but I have heard multiple doctors say it does nothing.

I will repeat myself and restate what I have stated publicly and privately.

I am concerned, very concerned about the abundance of misinformation being posted.

Every person on this forum is either dealing with a serious illness, caring for someone who is, or are allies who research in great depth and post only what they have researched enough to have substantially validated efficacy.

Posting random misinformation from the internet that has not been researched further is of benefit to no one and is potentially harmful to those who assume that someone would not post it unless it is true.

I care deeply about people with Parkinson’s.

As this is a public forum I think participants should contemplate their intended outcomes prior to posting.

Inquire, educate IF I know I have something of value to share, and share to inspire is my personal aim.

I too research a lot and I use a private means of doing it so as to not dump a bunch of dead ends and misinformation on this audience. To do otherwise is unkind.

in reply to

I agree with you for the most part.

However there is another category of person, that happens to include me: people that are new, possibly not even diagnosed, who find the search for information overwhelming and exhausting.

I have appreciated the information being posted. Often the posts are made in the spirit of, "Hey! Here is this thing!" And going on to question and evaluate, inviting others to join in. I enjoy, learn, and benefit from this type of exchange. It's entirely appropriate for others to point out the lack of evidence (or whatever) and that is how everyone learns. I'd hate to have the entire input of information shut down because some people become too hopeful before the evaluation process is complete.

Most importantly, these are things that I would not have gone in search of myself. At least not right now, as I'm overwhelmed with getting myself situated with basic supplements and doctors.

in reply to

Misinformation posted to a vulnerable population is not justifiable.

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright in reply to

I don't think I post "misinformation" and appreciate crimsonclover's point that I usually am asking people to weigh in. I'm looking for a collective investigational effort. I will try to tone it down.

in reply to Bolt_Upright

The content of this, your post, has it been disproven? Yes.

Did you state it as a question? No.

Even you later commented that it is ineffective making what you posted misinformation.

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright in reply to

No, it is information. I'm not sure it has been disproved. The original study combined photobiomodulation with HW. The other was just HW. The original report is 3 years newer. I am still considering photobiomodulation + HW.

This is the logic of combining the 2:

PBM might activate the mitochondria in neurons, facilitate adenosine triphosphate (ATP) production, and result in neuroprotective effects. The PBM treatment may also elevate the levels of ROS, which is toxic but can be selectively neutralized by H2 in H2 water. Given its small molecular size, H2 can pass through the blood–brain barrier, diffuse into the brain, and exert neuroprotective effects in patients with PD.

(their HW was 2.5 ppm)

in reply to

so who appointed 'you' as our "thought police"?

Misinformation is frustrating and demotivating and confusing.

It is unkind to continue doing that.

Coling profile image
Coling in reply to

I really appreciate new therapies on this blog and I agree that the responsible and best approach is to present information which either has some double blind trials (preferably at stage 2) or if the information is anecdotal, I would prefer if they make that clear at the outset so that I can choose to skip or read on... with gratitude for all those searching and contributing.

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright

Hydrogen Water on it's own seems to be inefective: Trial Fails to Show Benefits of Hydrogen-saturated Water in Parkinson’s Patients parkinsonsnewstoday.com/201...

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright

Does drinking water rich in hydrogen gas revive brainhypometabolism in neurodegeneration by SCFAs upregulation? It always comes down to short chain fatty acids. 2020 readcube.com/articles/10.10...

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright

So this report is poo-pooing the hydrogen water effectiveness but fed the rats something (Si?) that generated hydrogen n the gut!

Renoprotective and neuroprotective effects of enteric hydrogen generation from Si-based agent 2020 nature.com/articles/s41598-...

However, even in the case of saturated hydrogen concentration of 1.6 ppm, only 18 mL hydrogen gas is included in 1 L hydrogen-rich water. Even if hydrogen in hydrogen-rich water is absorbed in the body and transferred to organs, the hydrogen concentration there returns to the initial value in a short time, e.g., 1 h14. Therefore, the effect of hydrogen-rich water to prevent oxidative stress is limited. Respiration of hydrogen-containing air is found to be effective for Parkinson’s disease15, brain infarction16, Obesity and Diabetes17. However, use of this method is limited mainly because of restriction of facilities.

Our study also revealed that Si-based agent prevented nigrostriatal dopaminergic neurodegeneration and exerted protective effects on motor balance and coordination in the PD model induced by 6-OHDA. Differences in motor activity were not detected between 6-OHDA-injected mice and control mice in the open field test and Supermex system in the present study. The reason why we could not detect significant differences between them was because the contralateral dopamine neurons were intact and the ipsilateral dopaminergic degeneration is partial in this hemi-parkinsonism model. In addition, lateral imbalance is not directly reflected in the measurements of the motor activity. On the other hand, the apomorphine test and rotarod test, which can recognize slight differences between affected and unaffected sides, were able to detect lateral imbalance of dopaminergic activity in the hemi-parkinsonism model unilaterally injected with 6-OHDA.

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright in reply to Bolt_Upright

Hydrogen generation by reaction of Si nanopowder with neutral water 2017

link.springer.com/article/1...

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright in reply to Bolt_Upright

Don't Eat Silicone Nanoparticles:

The toxicity of silica nanoparticles to the immune system futuremedicine.com/doi/10.2...

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright

DIY Hydrogen Water

youtu.be/mJ1DeiD5LTo

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright

It looks like I can make hydrogen pills by just adding malic acid to the magnesium I already take:

shop.drinkhrw.com/collectio...

Magnesium, malic acid, dextrose, tartaric acid, adipic acid, sodium stearyl fumarate.

Update: I don't think this would work. Bolt

park_bear profile image
park_bear in reply to Bolt_Upright

You could make hydrogen by electrolysis thereby avoiding the need for consumable items.

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright in reply to park_bear

I have read that you need the hydrogen electrolysis to be separate from the water you drink. That may be BS. Most of the "better" hydrogen water machines have a membrane that keeps the electrolysis separate from the water you ingest.

I also heard you don't want to drink magnesium malic acid reaction water, but that guy was pitching the Lourdes machine.

park_bear profile image
park_bear in reply to Bolt_Upright

or just inhale the hydrogen

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright in reply to park_bear

I was looking into that also. Just stumbled across this:

Says water is 100 times more effective in delivering hydrogen than inhaling (not a trusted source...yet)

nutraingredients-usa.com/Ar...

park_bear profile image
park_bear in reply to Bolt_Upright

He has got a vested interest in that particular conclusion

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright in reply to park_bear

Hydrogen Gas Inhalation Treatment in Acute Cerebral Infarction: A Randomized Controlled Clinical Study on Safety and Neuroprotection 2017 pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/286...

Results: The H2 group showed no significant adverse effects with improvements in oxygen saturation. The following significant effects were found: the relative signal intensity of MRI, which indicated the severity of the infarction site, NIHSS scores for clinically quantifying stroke severity, and physical therapy evaluation, as judged by the Barthel Index.

Conclusions: H2 treatment was safe and effective in patients with acute cerebral infarction. These results suggested a potential for widespread and general application of H2 gas.

WinnieThePoo profile image
WinnieThePoo

Any chance you could spend the evening talking to yourself in private instead of o this forum?Nobody wants to stop you getting excited by a 2 week, 18 participant, no placebo control experiment which fails to distinguish any combined effect from component ones, but do it in private.

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright in reply to WinnieThePoo

Thanks WinnieThePoo. I appreciate the advice.

The biggest thing I learned was that they used the lamp for 30 minutes instead of the 10 minutes I thought was correct. And I have learned that hydrogen does reduce oxidative stress... maybe.

in reply to WinnieThePoo

hey poo... we believe in having an OPEN discussion from everyone... if you don't like what yo read here.... read elsewhere

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright

Hydrogen-rich water reduces inflammatory responses and prevents apoptosis of peripheral blood cells in healthy adults: a randomized, double-blind, controlled trial nature.com/articles/s41598-...

So what this study of 158 people (double blind placebo controlled) shows is hydrogen water DOES reduce inflammation, but ONLY in people over 30 years old.

In conclusion, this work presents, to our knowledge, the first double-blind placebo-controlled comprehensive study investigating the effects of H2-water in healthy adults. 1.5 L of H2-water intake for 4 weeks reduced cell death and inflammatory responses by modulating transcriptional networks of TLR-NFκB signaling. In addition, it may promote biological antioxidant capacity for adults > 30 yrs more than younger individuals.

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright

Can anybody convert this to ppm? The hydrogen concentration of the H2-rich water was 0.753 ± 0.012 mg/L

31st May, 2021

Kedir Abate Fentaw

Cukurova University

The simplest formula to convert Molarity to ppm and vice versal is:

ppm or mg/L or mg/kg = molarity (moles/L)* molar mass of elemnt (g/moles)*1000 (mg/g).

*We Just multiply the values by 1000 to convert g to mg,

Therefore,

- 100 Micromole of H gas has 100*0.001 moles/L =0.1

- The molecular mass of Hydrogen gas (H2) is 2.016 g/mole.

- ppm =Molarity (moles/L)*Molar mass (g/mole)*1000 (mg/g)

- ppm = 0.1 moles/L * 2.016 g/moles *1000 mg/g

= 201.6 mg/l =201.6 ppm, on a mass basis.

So... .75 mg/L = .75 ppm

That was easy!

.75 ppm hydrogen is not hard to get with a $200 hydrogen water maker.

amazon.com/dp/B07FKVYYL6/?c...

Getz profile image
Getz

Mate I bought an H2 device and it worked for over a year. It has now stopped so I am after any natural system to increase hydrogen. Love your posts but I am not a scientist.

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright in reply to Getz

I am a proud high school graduate (so take my opinions with a grain of salt).

So how did you like the H2 device? any benefits? What kind did you get?

I'm considering this one: amazon.com/Sport-Portable-H...

Getz profile image
Getz in reply to Bolt_Upright

I bought a Reaqer off Amazon but they are no longer available and mine no longer works.

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright in reply to Getz

Thanks. Did you feel any benefits?

Getz profile image
Getz in reply to Bolt_Upright

It kept my blood oxygen level at 98-99% so well worthwhile.

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright in reply to Getz

That is very interesting. I had no idea it could help with oxygenation. Thanks!

in reply to Getz

Was that an improvement over your previous blood oxygen level?

Getz profile image
Getz in reply to

Normally 95-97% but a lot has changed with this PD and Prostate Cancer. Nutrition has become a big interest and I discovered that certain foods also boost O2 levels. Since my H2 generator stopped I have rarely got back up to 99% despite eating properly.

in reply to Getz

That is very interesting, thank you. Congratulations on your success!!

Lizzy9 profile image
Lizzy9 in reply to Getz

I'm sorry to hear of your PD and Prostate Cancer. My husband (the PwP dx 12/2020) was dx with PC the end of '09 at the of age 58. He went through IMRT (radiation therapy) and came through with flying colors. I read a TON on diet and supplements. I realize this is a PD forum and you didn't ask me for any advice/recommendations so please disregard if you aren't interested. One of the books I read was by Ty Bolinger "Step Outside the Box". Ty also has a good website called "The Truth About Cancer (TTAC)".Good luck and God bless!!

Getz profile image
Getz in reply to Lizzy9

Thanks Lizzy. Ty Bollinger is a hero of mine and I have watched most of his series of videos. He provides great factual information on diet and exercise.

Lizzy9 profile image
Lizzy9 in reply to Getz

I Getz ~ I'm so glad that you're familiar with TTAC!!! It sounds like you're way ahead of me in following them. I look things up on their site as I need and right now I'm on the HU site very frequently!I'm so thankful for all the people here that are so helpful. I don't know where I'd be if I hadn't been able to find it!

Have a fabulous day!!!

Gail

Getz profile image
Getz in reply to Lizzy9

Gail, could I suggest you check out posts by John Pepper and Chartist. John is now deceased but kept active and fully functual till the end. Chartist will give you wonderful specific info on supplements that will work. He is a gem. Please check him out. Good luck.

Juliegrace profile image
Juliegrace in reply to Getz

John Pepper was still active here as of four hours ago.

Getz profile image
Getz in reply to Juliegrace

Have seen a post saying he was deceased. I do hope it is incorrect. Would have loved you to attach a link but I will go searching. He is a hero of mine.

Getz profile image
Getz in reply to Juliegrace

Could find no link less than 1 year. Are you sure?

Juliegrace profile image
Juliegrace in reply to Getz

Yes.

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

Getz profile image
Getz in reply to Juliegrace

Thank you. He is wonderful and has genuine suggestions to improve Parkinsons symptoms.

Juliegrace profile image
Juliegrace in reply to Getz

Have you been officially diagnosed? Last I recall you hadn’t been but it’s been some time since then.

Getz profile image
Getz in reply to Juliegrace

Still on the waiting list to get into a neurologist. It has been months and months.

Juliegrace profile image
Juliegrace in reply to Getz

That must be very frustrating.

Getz profile image
Getz in reply to Juliegrace

When you are not wealthy and have to rely on public health you have to take what they give you. I just had my cataracts done and they were done within 6 weeks of referral to the public hospital. Obviously PD is not given anywhere near that priority.

Lizzy9 profile image
Lizzy9 in reply to Getz

Thank you!! Yes you are correct Chartist is amazingly incredible!!! He has helped me a lot with our B1 and DopaBoost regimen!! I have also communicated with John this last spring and I purchased his book which my hwp and I both read. (I hope that he hasn’t passed away.)

There are so many wonderful and supportive people here I could not do what I am able to do for my husband without this support group. I only hope that I can help others too.

God bless you and have a fabulous day!!!

Gail

binnyrox profile image
binnyrox in reply to Lizzy9

Hi Lizzy9

By chance would you still have the link where you found Chartist info on dopaboost helpful. would appreciate it much

Lizzy9 profile image
Lizzy9 in reply to binnyrox

Hello binnyrox ~ I was giving my husband the recommended dose of Dopaboost which is 2 bills with his first morning dose of carbidopa/levadopa. Chartist recommended giving him 3 pills instead of just 2, which I did. We still weren't seeing positive results (lots of anxiety and very strong left leg/foot tremor) ~ UNTIL ~ I started giving my husband 1 Dopaboost pill with each pill of the carbidopa/levadopa. His perscription is 1 C/L 3 times daily. I had been giving all 3 Dopaboost in the morning which was too much dopamine at once and not enough as the day progressed. Keep in mind this is what worked for us. However, we are doing a lot of other things that have all contributed to a HUGE decrease in symptoms. My husband is almost 100% now ~ no anxiety, tremor decreased by probably 99%. Since he still has very slight cognitive issues we are trying some major dietary changes.

I hope this helps. If you still want me to see if I can find the "Chartist" post (or anything else) just let me know and I'll see if I can find it.

Have a fabulous day!!!

binnyrox profile image
binnyrox in reply to Lizzy9

Thank you so much for the reply. It helps!I’m curious - may I ask what else might you be doing that his symptoms have decreased substantially?

Have a wonderful day too

Lizzy9 profile image
Lizzy9 in reply to binnyrox

Well, I can only guess, but here is what I think has helped ~1. Prayer

2. HDT B1 ~ However we aren't using the recommended formula. We found that the Thiamine Mononitrate works best for us. There is mixed information about it being/not being "safe". We take a very low dose of 25mg 2x daily and then skip 1 day a week so I feel ok with using this form.

3. Mannitol ~ At Chartist's recommendation we spread it out throughout the day, a little in his coffee, some in water with each meal, last dose at night with his melatonin.

4. Iodine along with selenium. We go by the recommendations from the book "Iodine, Why You Need It" by Dr. David Brownstein.

5. Exercise ~ Before the weather changed he was walking 3-5 miles 3-5 times a week plus riding his e-bike 40+ miles a week (I know I know the e-bike is petal assist, but he still manages to come home sweaty). We have a treadmill and stationary bike for this time of year.

6. He uses the Well Red Helmut 2x daily. However, neither of us noticed any improvement that we could directly correlate. But maybe it has stopped other problems from popping up or maybe it has helped other things to work better.

7. Melatonin ~ We found that 50 mg is his maximum dose. He takes 60mg one night and the next he takes 40mg. (I needed to get rid of the 60mg's.).

There are a lot more supplements that he's on but these are the ones that I can think of that are probably having a direct affect on his PD, along with the exercise. If I think of something else that might be contributing to his improvement I'll let you know.

By the way, my husband is 70 years old and the C/L is the only prescription that he's on, actually the only prescription medication in out home. We try to eat healthfully and he has very little gut issues and he sleeps like a baby! (Much better than I do!)

Don't hesitate to contact me if you have any more questions.

Have a fabulous day!

binnyrox profile image
binnyrox in reply to binnyrox

Really appreciate the lengthy reply - its so very usefulGod Bless

BR

Lizzy9 profile image
Lizzy9 in reply to binnyrox

You’re welcome. This is such a difficult disease and anything that I can share that is helpful, I want to do. Through it all my husband and I are very blessed.

God bless you too and continue to have a fabulous day!!!

Lizzy9 profile image
Lizzy9 in reply to binnyrox

One more thing ~ if you aren’t on HDT B1, don’t get discouraged with it. It took 5 months for us to get the correct dose. Some people have good luck with sublingual. That didn’t work for us.

Raphaekg profile image
Raphaekg

Can't interpret anything but safety in this study. Efficacy questions require controlled clinical trial,.i.e., study with a control group , not just a treatment group.

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright in reply to Raphaekg

My post from 18 hours ago had a control group:

Hydrogen-rich water reduces inflammatory responses and prevents apoptosis of peripheral blood cells in healthy adults: a randomized, double-blind, controlled trial nature.com/articles/s41598-...

So what this study of 158 people (double blind placebo controlled) shows is hydrogen water DOES reduce inflammation, but ONLY in people over 30 years old.

In conclusion, this work presents, to our knowledge, the first double-blind placebo-controlled comprehensive study investigating the effects of H2-water in healthy adults. 1.5 L of H2-water intake for 4 weeks reduced cell death and inflammatory responses by modulating transcriptional networks of TLR-NFκB signaling. In addition, it may promote biological antioxidant capacity for adults > 30 yrs more than younger individuals.

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright

Hydrogen-enriched water eliminates fine particles from the lungs and blood by enhancing phagocytic activity 2017 ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

They really did not seem to have to get that much hydrogen into the water: H2 concentration in HW was confirmed to be 1.2–1.4 ppm

This was with rats.

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright

Effects of drinking hydrogen-rich water on the quality of life of patients treated with radiotherapy for liver tumors 2011 ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Results

The consumption of hydrogen-rich water for 6 weeks reduced reactive oxygen metabolites in the blood and maintained blood oxidation potential. QOL scores during radiotherapy were significantly improved in patients treated with hydrogen-rich water compared to patients receiving placebo water. There was no difference in tumor response to radiotherapy between the two groups.

Conclusions

Daily consumption of hydrogen-rich water is a potentially novel, therapeutic strategy for improving QOL after radiation exposure. Consumption of hydrogen-rich water reduces the biological reaction to radiation-induced oxidative stress without compromising anti-tumor effects.

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright

I ordered a hydrogen water generator ($180): H2 USB Sport MAXX Hydrogen Water Generator with Glass Bottle and Inhaler Adapter (Silver) Brand: H2WaterForLife amazon.com/gp/product/B07FK...

I also spent $25 on H2Blue Hydrogen Test Reagent so I can make sure this thing works before the return window closes!

laglag profile image
laglag

Here is a webinar on Hydrogen water...

drjockers.com/antioxidant-h...

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright in reply to laglag

Thanks laglag! I have already learned something just from the web page:

I recommend getting a high-quality water filter you can install in your home or apartment and drinking out of glass or stainless steal to minimize plastic. On top of that, I recommend drinking antioxidant rich water.

You can do this by adding lemon or lime to your water or you can do it with hydrogen water. The world’s smallest and most powerful antioxidant is hydrogen and drinking hydrogen water has tremendous health benefits.

(but I won't be buying that machine he is selling) :)

Despe profile image
Despe in reply to Bolt_Upright

Reverse Osmosis water is excellent, too. I had this system installed,

amazon.com/Waterdrop-Revers...

Water tastes great! To that I add a hydrogen tablet in a stainless steel pitcher with an Alkaline Water Pouch.

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright

Please be kind.

in reply to Bolt_Upright

Always defend 'freedom'

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright in reply to

We have a code of conduct: healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

Good people are leaving this site due to the drama. If somebody posts something out of line, please just refer them to the code of conduct.

WinnieThePoo profile image
WinnieThePoo

I should like to apologise to Bolt, for whom I have great respect. Whilst there was a feeling that the sheer volume of his posts, at the time, were rather smothering the forum, he has proved himself an officer and a gentleman. And, if in common with some others with a few miles under our belt, I feel maybe I've seen it all before and am a little more discriminating, I recognise myself a few years ago in that paradigm that I would not just accept the status quo but personally solve the mystery and reject wholesale the conventions.That was yesterday

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright in reply to WinnieThePoo

Thank you for the kind words Poo. I was a bit frantic in my posts when I joined this group :)

I respect you and know where you are coming from also. Let's hope the cycle gets broken soon (maybe Broccoli Sprout Tea will break the cycle?).

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