RED LIGHT HELMET can cause increased ‘reactive oxygen species’ (ROS) production, according to this study

[Jennyjenny2]

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/335...

This study included 18 patients (not mice!) to determine the safety and effectiveness of photobiomodulation (PBM) + hydrogen water (H2), stating H2 may clear additional ROS produced by PBM

All participants received daily PBM + H2 therapy for 2 weeks. The UPDRS scores began significantly decreasing from the first week, no adverse event recorded.

They concluded the therapy is safe and reduces disease severity.

[Bolt_Upright]

Here is the full text link: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

So I think what this paper is saying is:

"photobiomodulation (PBM) may enhance mitochondrial function and boost adenosine triphosphate production, thus alleviating PD symptoms; however, this process can cause increased reactive oxygen species (ROS) production".

So it is identifying a risk with photobiomodulation.

Then saying that having hydrogen water after the photobiomodulation may mitigate that risk.

This is the paper that spurred me to purchase a hydrogen water maker thing. Cost me almost $200 (I need to start using it) amazon.com/gp/product/B07FK...

[dvoranel in reply to Bolt_Upright]

Do you think hydrogen tablets would work as well? Dr. Mercola's or similar?

amazon.com/Dr-Mercola-Molec...

[Bolt_Upright in reply to dvoranel]

Sorry, I have no idea if the tablets would help. I'm not convinced the water helps. All of this is so iffy.

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to Bolt_Upright]

To what would you attribute the improvement in the UPDRS score, Dave, if not the water? We’re now a bit apprehensive to continue with the red light helmet. Jenny

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Jennyjenny2]

Jennyjenny2 and dvoranel : Me, with my HS Degree, has a bone to pick with this H2O2 study. I just re-read the study and it strikes me that this part "however, this process can cause increased reactive oxygen species (ROS) production" does not have any notation. I don't know what they are basing this belief on.

Also, if the point of their study was to show H2O2 with PBM was better than PBM by itself, but their study only testing with H2O2 and PBM. Basically, this study does not prove much of anything to me.

Furthermore, this article from 2020: The Molecular Mechanisms of Action of Photobiomodulation Against Neurodegenerative Diseases: A Systematic Review link.springer.com/article/1... says PBM may increase ROS in normal cells, but may lower ROS in stressed cells: "It has been hypothesized that activation of CCO by PBM works by releasing nitric oxide (NO) from CCO, generating reactive oxygen species (ROS), and triggering NO signaling pathways (Hamblin 2016). This may not hold when PBM is used on cells already under stress (Huang et al. 2013), since the data reviewed here show a decrease in oxidative stress and NO signaling (Yang et al. 2010; Song et al. 2012; Huang et al. 2014)".

There is A LOT of good reading in this 2020 study.

I don't think H2O2 will hurt anything, it might help. Me and my HS Degree would not let the H2O2 study scare me away from red light. In fact, after reading this 2022 study I might start using my $40 eBay red light again.

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to Bolt_Upright]

Thanks for picking the study to pieces, Dave. It’s obvious now but I couldn’t see it before. Appreciate your time in replying. Jenny

[Grumpy77 in reply to Bolt_Upright]

Perhaps the best principle is to allow the "dust to properly settle" on these studies before we draw our own conclusions. But that's easier said than done for many of us impatient on finding solutions to our issues.

But I like your brutal honesty... that sometimes these studies can leave us more confused than we started

[dvoranel in reply to Bolt_Upright]

Thank you so much Bolt. I so appreciate always your deep dive and careful consideration that you so generously share

[Bolt_Upright in reply to dvoranel]

You are so welcome. I am happy if I am able to help. Good luck.

[dvoranel in reply to Bolt_Upright]

After reading the above that you shared I am going to drink hydrogen water after using the red light hat. Thank you!

[chartist]

Jenny,

The increased melatonin synthesis(pineal gland and mitochondria) associated with red light therapy (PBM) would also likely reduce the increased reactive oxygen species (ROS) associated with PBM. If PBM is also applied to the abdomen, it could potentially increase gut melatonin production while application of PBM to the spine could potentially increase melatonin level in the cerebrospinal fluid which would also contribute to melatonin brain levels and potentially ameliorate disc degeneration as melatonin has shown to do in studies. This is important because people with PD are at increased risk for spinal deformity and disc degeneration issues :

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

PBM increased melatonin synthesis may play a considerable role in benefits associated with PBM.

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened in the study if they had another study arm that didn't use the hydrogen water, but did use the PBM.

Art

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to chartist]

Hi Art

In the study that I mentioned above it says that the PBM can increase the ROS. Are you meaning that melatonin can clear the additional ROS, instead of the H2? Hope I’ve understood your comments correctly.

After reading the study it sounds like there is a risk involved with photobiomodulation unless hydrogen water is consumed (or melatonin?)

Jenny

[chartist in reply to Jennyjenny2]

Hi Jenny,

Yes, melatonin is a potent scavenger of ROS and RNS through both direct and indirect cellular activity. PBM increases melatonin production in the mitochondria and pineal gland which will scavenge ROS. That is why I would have liked to have seen if PBM without hydrogen water would have been just as effective at scavenging the elevated ROS levels. I think it would have been.

As an example, people with PD have elevated oxidative stress levels which include elevated ROS levels in the brain. If people using a PBM helmet are actually being exposed to further elevated brain levels of ROS, you would expect to be hearing reports of at least a temporary worsening of PD symptoms after using a PBM helmet, but we are not hearing these reports. I suspect the increased melatonin production from PBM is quenching any ROS that is being generated by PBM and it is doing it fairly quickly.

We don't really have a basis for comparison because there was not another arm to the study that did not receive hydrogen water. The hydrogen water just seems to add a complication to this small study that it didn't really need.

Art

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to chartist]

Thanks once again, Art, for your detailed reply. I totally understand what you’re saying on all the points you mentioned. In hindsight I should have done more research myself but I thought I was on a winner 🙂

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to chartist]

Thanks for the reminder, Art. I’ll do a bit more reading up on melatonin. My husband only has 5 drops at night and it works wonders for his sleep, along with the intranasal device. The benefits of melatonin seem endless. I read somewhere it even helps osteoporosis. That’s for another time 🙂Jenny

[chartist in reply to Jennyjenny2]

Hi Jenny,

Regarding melatonin and osteoporosis, I wrote about it on this forum over a year ago:

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

Melatonin is a pretty incredible molecule!

Art

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to chartist]

Hi Art

So much to read! I can’t wait to get into it!! I don’t know how I missed your original post over a year ago. This has given me hope as I’m afraid things aren’t looking very good in the bones department. Very much appreciated, believe me!

Jenny 🌸

[chartist in reply to Jennyjenny2]

Jenny,

The science continues to show that melatonin has multiple positive effects re osteoporosis. Here are a couple of newer studies suggesting as much :

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Here is a relevant quote from the second study link :

>>> ' One of the attractive features of Mel action is its ability to reduce the RANKL/OPG ratio, which has a direct therapeutic implication (Renn et al., 2018). A higher RANKL/OPG ratio over the normal controls promotes bone resorption and is elevated in osteoporosis. A human neutralizing antibody against RANKL (denosumab) is clinically used for the treatment of postmenopausal osteoporosis (Cummings et al., 2009). Because RANK is indispensable for osteoclast formation and function, denosumab completely renders bone resorption inactive. As bone resorption triggers the process of the bone remodeling cycle, which is required for maintaining bone quality, denosumab’s action affects bone quality in the long run. Mel would allow the restoration of the bone remodeling cycle to normal by suppressing RANKL instead of completely inactivating it, thereby preventing overactive bone resorption observed in osteoporosis patients. Another limitation of anti-osteoporosis therapy is the limited window of stimulated bone formation by the osteoanabolic therapies (teriparatide and abaloparatide) (Bhattacharyya et al., 2019). ' <<<

Art

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to chartist]

I have no doubt that melatonin will help osteoporosis after looking at all the links you have supplied in your original post, Art. Thank you.

I’m afraid I’ve skimmed over some at this stage as they are a little out of my league and I’ll need time to absorb it all BUT the following link stood out...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Looking at this study, do you think the BMD would increase in women with severe osteoporosis as it did for osteopenic women using melatonin, strontium citrate, D3 and K2 (MK7)? And I wonder how much melatonin and strontium citrate? And would melatonin drops be ok? And where would one get the strontium citrate? Sorry so many questions. 🙂

[chartist in reply to Jennyjenny2]

Hi Jenny,

I have no doubt that this regimen would be very helpful for osteopenia and osteoporosis and apparently this research team felt the same as they included this sentence in their study :

>>> ' These findings provide both clinical and mechanistic support for the use of MSDK for the prevention or treatment of osteopenia, osteoporosis or other bone-related diseases. ' <<<

With melatonin, it is my opinion that if you are actively trying to treat a specific disease, it requires at least 1 mg per kilogram or more right up to tolerance, but this is just my opinion not medical advice.

I also think that when it comes to bone health, this protocol (MDSK) was lacking another very important component, Boron.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/302...

Here is a relevant quote from the abstract :

>>> ' In the past few years, attention has been paid to clear the pleiotropic effects of boron including activating of immune response, antioxidant detoxification activities, affecting bone metabolism, enhancing animal performance and modulating various body systems. Furthermore, the role of boron as anti-heat stress agent has been identified in plants and suggested in animals. Liver metabolism also shows significant alterations in dairy cows in response to the dietary supplementation of boron. Likewise, adding boron to animal feed enhances bone density, wound healing and embryonic development. Additionally, boron has a potential impact on the metabolism of numerous minerals and enzymes. ' <<<

I take high dose boron myself, via borax intake to ward off osteoporosis, but mainly to keep my severe psoriatic psoriasis in remission for over a decade now.

Regarding Strontium Citrate, recommended label dosing is usually in the general area of 700 mg/day +/-.

A link for Strontium Citrate products :

amazon.com/s?k=strontium+ci...

Art

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to chartist]

Hi Art

Thanks for your reply and having to repeat that very important sentence in the study that I obviously missed 🙄

And thanks for mentioning boron. A while back I searched for borax after reading park_bear’s writings and discovered that it has been banned in Australia (as it was healing people and the pharmaceutical companies weren’t selling their expensive drugs).

Since reading his writings I’ve been taking K2 (MK7), 5000iu D3 and only 3mg boron, as that was the highest dose I could get here.

I will now add the strontium citrate and melatonin to the mix.

Can’t thank you enough 🙏

Jenny

[chartist in reply to Jennyjenny2]

Hi Jenny,

Yes, Borax contains 11.3% boron. I have been taking Borax for over a decade, possibly in the 15 year area to keep my severe arthritis in remission and as an osteopenia/ osteoporosis preventative and general bone protectant. I wrote about it on this forum 4 years ago when I was still known as forum member, "Easilly". Here is a link to what I wrote, but some of the links are probably no longer active, but rather available as purchasable information I think from various websites, but there are still free ones if you search hard enough :

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

It costs me about a dollar a year to take Borax to keep my arthritis in remission. Not everyone can tolerate borax, but for those that do, it can be a stellar treatment for some of the many forms of arthritis. For me it was life changing as my arthritis was severe and has helped some of my friends with arthritis similarly to myself. I recently (this year) told a friend about it and after a month of use, she described it as miraculous. I did once see a person with an unusual form of arthritis that was caused by a vaccine for Lyme disease that it did not work for, but I have seen it work for other forms of arthritis .

Borax has a safety profile that is similar to or slightly better than table salt making the required dose well within the safety margin. Dr. Rex Newnham popularized it many decades ago in Australia, but ran into problems with trying to keep up with demand. I will say that I have seen his recommended dose "not work" in several people including myself, but a significantly higher dose did work and for me has kept me pain free for many years.

Art

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to chartist]

Hi Art

That’s wonderful how a simple product like borax can have such a life changing result for $1 a year! Phenomenal! And amazing how it has kept your arthritis in remission. I’m so happy for you.

I’m having a BMD scan in a couple of weeks so it will be interesting to see how my T scores are compared to a year ago, and then to have something to compare my new regimen with in another year as well.

I can’t thank you enough for all your help. I knew I would never try the pharmaceutical drugs after doing the research and I was just about to the point of having to accept my future. I now have hope. 🙏

Jenny 🌸

[chartist in reply to Jennyjenny2]

Hi Jenny,

Yes, unfortunately the osteoporosis prescription meds have plenty of room for improvement. Fortunately some supplements have shown significant benefit for osteoporosis offering another option that is more likely to have other health benefits as opposed to unwanted side effects. Real hope is always welcome!

Art

[Jennyjenny2 in reply to chartist]

Hi Art

I’ve been researching further for my bronchiectasis, wondering whether melatonin could possibly help it and I came across the following:

ehealthme.com/ds/melatonin/...

Would you trust that site?

I must admit I’m a bit apprehensive to continue with the melatonin for the osteoporosis as it could make the bronchiectasis worse.

Jenny

[chartist in reply to Jennyjenny2]

Jenny,

It is hard to take the information they are giving and draw a reasonable conclusion. At no time do they state why the people mentioned are taking melatonin or how much melatonin they are taking. Are they taking melatonin for its potent anti inflammatory and antioxidative stress effects to fight bronchiectasis? None of these questions are answered in that report, but they are all relevant. I would say if you are having doubts about taking melatonin as it relates to bronchiectasis, then you should stop until you are able to get more definitive data.

As regards the osteoporosis, there is always boron, Grape Seed Proanthocyanidin Extract (GSPE), VK2/MK7 and strontium. GSPE also has potent antioxidative stress effects and anti inflammatory effects .

Art

[Jennyjenny2]

Hi Art

Yes, I was left confused by the information they supplied. So many questions that need to be answered.

As for the osteoporosis, I am taking boron, strontium, K2, D3 and thanks for mentioning the GSPE that I will endeavor to track down. I can remember this was on my list of things to take at some stage and I’d forgotten about it. Maybe you had previously mentioned this, or maybe it was park_bear some time ago.

Sometimes it’s hard for me to remember everything as my brain is switching from Parkinson’s to osteoporosis to bronchiectasis. Not making excuses but telling you how much you are appreciated.

Thanks once again for your wisdom.

Jenny