the Lithium book, must read!

[bassofspades]

amazon.com/dp/B01FT4OGDI/re...

read it!!!!

[JayPwP]

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

[bassofspades in reply to JayPwP]

For once, it's not just good for mice!

[Despe in reply to bassofspades]

Alleluia!!

[park_bear]

Does this book reference any clinical trials of lithium for Parkinson's? I took a look on Google scholar did not see anything. High-dose lithium can cause parkinsonism.

[bassofspades in reply to park_bear]

This is about very low dose and there is literature on the subject, including a paper by our beloved dr Laurie Mischley PhD

[chartist]

Here is a summary of the book ;

jamesgreenblattmd.com/lithi...

How are you doing on it bass? You've been taking it for some time haven't you?

Art

[bassofspades in reply to chartist]

Im doing great! It has been a miracle for me. We discussed this on zoom meetings, so for those interested i posted this link to the book. I have been taking it since my dr insisted that I read the book and that was probably 3 years ago.

[chartist in reply to bassofspades]

I remember your great results and now with this update of yours, it is good to know that the effects are durable. I remember, but for those who do not, can you describe the benefits that you attribute to very low dose lithium orotate (20mg or less per day)? I myself an a believer!

Art

[bassofspades in reply to chartist]

Thanks Art,

The benefits I got as a result of taking just 5mg lithium orotate per day was total resolution of my debilitating brain fog and dramatic improvement in memory. After a while, two years perhaps, i changed my regimen and left out the lithium. The benefits remained without any relapse. However, i had this new problem of increasing Anhedonia, increasing frequency and intensity of depression and completely unfounded bouts of anxiety. I remembered what i read about the lithium orotate and immediately started back on it. This time 10mg per day without fail . Within 2 weeks i never had those problems again.

This supplement has done nothing for motor symptoms that I can tell. I still deal with tremors and bradykinesia.

The dose that Dr S Todd Robinson from Lakeland Florida recommend to me was 10mg to 20mg per day, and he absolutely insisted that I read the book. Im forever thankful that he did. He passed away last year , sadly. Yes, as my good friend Kia17 stated, he recommended we at least try what seems like everything on the periodic table ! I posted the list that he gave me here...

healthunlocked.com/parkinso...

The point is not to do everything on the list at once, but to see what works for you. His story is that he had several family members who had Parkinson's and he was afraid that he would get it himself. So he did lots of research on the subject , and I found him to be better than any neurologist I ever met. And he was a family practice dr. I found him when i was looking into the Marty Hinz amino acid protocol , which he then taught me how to manage.

If you're reading this and decide that lithium orotate might be something that interests you , please read the book and give it at least 2weeks, then follow up with me and let me know how it goes.

[park_bear in reply to bassofspades]

Thanks for your informative reply. It explains why lithium orotate did nothing for me – my symptoms are not among those that lithium helped.

[Dizlizz in reply to bassofspades]

Hi. I’ve been reading the book as you recommend but came across a hiccup when the author seems to conclude that best not taking lithium if you have a hypothyroid condition, which I have.

[bassofspades in reply to Dizlizz]

See that is why it is important to read the book before you take it ! Thanks!!!

[Despe in reply to Dizlizz]

Do you mean LO interferes with your Thyroid meds? My husband had total thyroidectomy and is on Armour Porcine hormones. He is on low dose LO (5mg), but I don't see any problems. Actually Dr. Mischley recommended to him this low dose of LO.

[bassofspades in reply to Despe]

You gotta read the book! But if dr mischley said it's ok , she's the expert. They cited her 17 times in this book !

[Despe in reply to bassofspades]

I will, Bass, time permitting.

[Rhyothemis]

Please note that lithium was found to cause harm in a trial for multiple system atrophy:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/229...

There's also a case report of it causing harm in MSA:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/223...

While I know that in these studies relatively high doses of Li were used and sometimes drugs have bi-phasic dose-response curves, I would not chance it.

Unfortunately there is no research on why Li causes worsening of MSA. Li can act as a competitive inhibitor for Mg dependent enzymes.

[bassofspades in reply to Rhyothemis]

Thank you for bringing this up. Yes, large doses are absolutely toxic. Im talking about low doses, 5 to 20mg. That's probably about 1/100th of the dose that they used to use for bipolar disorder . The point is to replace what is missing from the water we drink in civilization these days .

[bassofspades]

digital.lib.washington.edu/...

Dr Mischley discusses the subject

[laglag in reply to bassofspades]

I believe your neurologist can test for lithium deficiency and/or you can ask Dr Mischley about how to test it. Pretty sure insurance doesn't pay for it.

[CaseyInsights]

I read the book, after having seen bassofspades reference his Lithium Ornate intake. I was also familiar with Dr. Laurie Mischley recommendations of 5mg Lithium per day from Lithium Ornate for those with a PD diagnosis.

“Nutritional Lithium - A Cinderella Story” is well written and adequately referenced.

The upshot is my spouse started on 5mg and is now on 10mg Lithium per day

As to symptom relief, there is none at this point - three months in. Not that I expected any. The book encouraged me to put Lithium Ornate intake in the defensive column. It joins Curcumin capsules on the defensive side of her current supplement intake.

You would hardly be convinced to take this obscure supplement without reading this book.

So if you are curious as to it’s benefits do take a read -

“Nutritional Lithium - A Cinderella Story” // James Greenblatt, MD And Kayla Grossman, RN 🌺

[bassofspades in reply to CaseyInsights]

Putting in the defensive column is a good idea, and fortunately it's inexpensive

[bassofspades]

Just rereading it and it appears that dr mischley's work is cited 17 times in this book!

[LAJ12345]

Well maybe most people are missing traces of many crucial elements! Pretty sure PD isn’t caused by just one chemical deficiency.

[DroppinIn]

Been taking Lithium for a couple of years now, at Mischley's direction. It's part of cocktail of 8 different supplements I take, based on her Rx from looking at my blood panels, which are PD specific. Hard to know what's having the most effect of all the things I'm doing (incl. diet and exercise), but the collection of it all is having a very positive effect. I'm 3 yrs into being Dx'd and have actually improved significantly, as measured by M's ProPD scale.

[Astra7 in reply to DroppinIn]

What else are you taking if you don’t mind telling??

[DroppinIn in reply to Astra7]

this is based on my specific bloodwork and deficiencies: Fish oil, Coq-10, theracurmin, manganese, Vit. D, Triple Mag magnesium, B1, glutathione (oral), lithium 20mg and 25/100 carb/lev

Forgot one important thing. I radically changed my diet after my Dx, from ominivorous to non-dairy pescetarian, 80%+ plant based diet, but I don't completely deprive myself, I've been known to have bacon or carnitas

Exercise 4-5x per week, high intensity, focusing on elevated heart rate, uphill running in short bursts until I can't barely go or breathe, functional exercise (squat, lunge, etc.) foam roller stretching (I'm a 50 something ex-athlete, so I recognize a lot of people can't do this stuff)

Meditate 20 mins in the AM, 3-4x/ weeks, and verbal affirmations that I'm symptom free and have recovered from PD

Tai chi once a week

Ping pong, kick the soccer ball, snowboard in the winter, bump the volleyball, throw the football, frisbee golf ... basically anything that will challenge my balance or hand eye coordination

I'm also part of a clinical study where I'm getting an alpha-synuclein antibody infusion once a month. Don't feel any different or notice symptom changes before or after the infusion but it's another variable.

Work full time running my consulting practice .... i.e. mentally engaged every day

So, as I said, given everything I'm doing, it's hard to tease out what's the key ingredient that is driving my improvement. I'm a believer that there isn't a silver bullet, but if you do enough of the good stuff the sum of parts will lead to better outcomes. And for me, so far so good.

Hope that helps

[bassofspades in reply to DroppinIn]

Well im exhausted just reading this !

[DroppinIn in reply to bassofspades]

yeah, I probably shouldn't have gotten into it, because it sounds overwhelming, but it's really not ... it's a lifestyle choice and about making conscious decisions. I also wanted to illustrate that it's not ONE thing, for those who are doing well with PD. I see too many people on this board looking for a silver bullet, which I totally get, I just want them to also see the bigger picture and that if you do all the things you can do, it can make a real difference.

[bassofspades in reply to DroppinIn]

You're absolutely right! As we are fighting an undefeated opponent , we have to give it all we got!

[jocelyng]

Would you mind listing the other supplements you take (including dosage level, times per day, with/without meals, etc.)? I’m new here and this group is proving to be a fount of useful info. Also, how did you get an appointment with Dr. Mischley? Did you have to go to WA?

Thanks so much.

Jocelyn

[bassofspades in reply to jocelyng]

First, i never had an appointment with Dr mischley, but since she is so well regarded by pwp, i seek out her papers and talks.

Jeez! I take a lot of stuff. Oh well here goes...

6am with black coffee,

10 mg lithium orotate

2000mg b1

1000 vitamin c

1 dopify

1000mg fish oil

25/100 Carbidoopa Levadopa

25/100 Carbidoopa Levadopa er

2mg Trihexyphenidyl

2.5 mg isradipine

4x a week super b complex

2x a week 250mg magnesium

2x a week vitamin d 3000mg

Then I fast all day until 6pm, then I take after dinner

25/100 Carbidoopa Levadopa er

2.5mg isradipiine

1 bio kult mind

You can Google these things. Pretty much the whole periodic table !

[jocelyng in reply to bassofspades]

Wow.

[NRyan in reply to bassofspades]

So you are doing OMAD? You have to drop lbs! Especially with no dairy or wheat. Good for you! Fight like hell.

[bassofspades in reply to NRyan]

Yes its omad

[bassofspades in reply to bassofspades]

And since I cut out wheat and dairy i lost 10 lbs in 3 weeks

[Despe in reply to bassofspades]

What does OMAD stand for? Thank you.

[Kia17 in reply to Despe]

One Meal A Day

[Despe in reply to Kia17]

Thank you, Kia

[lbrussell in reply to jocelyng]

Dr Mischley is based in Seattle, but she does virtual visits, which is perfect these days. I saw her on July 1 for the first time. (Just phone her office to make an appointment.) I am thrilled to report that I've had similar results to Dropinin above since my visit. My first PRO-PD score since then dropped over 150 points.

I won't take any supplement with out a blood or other test that proves a need. Dr Mischley's recommended cocktail of supplements (which for me includes lithium 20mg) and diet and exercise that I've followed faithfully since July 1 have been nothing short of miraculous. I can do so many things that I could not do before, such as floss my teeth with real floss instead of picks and slice bagels. My cycling and walking power and speed have also returned, which is most exciting. I don't know how much this has to do with lithium, but it's now part of my plan and I'm all in. Lithium is cheap and easy to get and has no side effects for me.

[lbrussell in reply to lbrussell]

Also, Dr Mischley's PD School has a whole segment on Lithium in Chapter 12: Conditionally Essential Nutrients in PD. My lithium levels were off the charts low at <0.004 with a reference range of 0.007-0.020.

[jocelyng in reply to lbrussell]

My MDS said no to Lithium. I signed up for Parkinson’s School, but I haven’t gotten an email in months. I really need to contact her office.

[bassofspades in reply to jocelyng]

Yeah I went to see my neurologist today. He continues to remain ignorant to b1 and lithium as well as the Marty Hinz amino acid protocol . I wasn't even going to mention broccoli seeds !!

[jocelyng in reply to bassofspades]

He said it can be toxic to the kidneys and can worsen tremor. I got some broccoli seed capsules today. That won’t be toxic!

[bassofspades in reply to jocelyng]

Your doctor didn't read the book. Lithium orotate is not toxic in these micro doses. The old fashioned non orotate version is toxic because you'd have to take 100 times the dose to get the same amount to your brain.

[lbrussell in reply to jocelyng]

There aren't really any emails for the online version of PD School. Try here: pd-school.teachable.com

[jocelyng in reply to lbrussell]

Thanks!

[bassofspades]

😮

[Astra7]

I do have a problem when the people making a recommendation for supplements are also profiting from selling them.

I used to visit an integrative GP who would send me to the pharmacy next door for around $1000 worth of stuff including things like expensively packaged clay!!

She may have been legit but I lost the trust.

Threw out the clay .... ($350!!).

[Astra7]

Lots of B1!!

[bassofspades in reply to Astra7]

I used to take 4000mg

[bassofspades]

Just a reminder, read the book before you start taking anything.

[pmmargo]

Thanks again for getting me on the Li Orotate. I'm still taking it and I think it is doing good things for me. Hope you are well and happy. Amy just mentioned that you tried to get into the zoom on Sat night. Jack Edmonston is running it in Marc's absence. I have been mostly only going on Sat eve. Very nice people there and a smaller crowd. Would love to have you. Be well . Paul

[bassofspades in reply to pmmargo]

Hi pm! I got on today. It was good therapy for me. Missed you though!

[pmmargo]

I thought I was there..in the group with Jack. I think mayber there were two groups???

[bassofspades in reply to pmmargo]

Jacks link went to my spam email and I didn't notice until after the fact.