Ways various PD treatments deplete essential chemicals.

[LAJ12345]

dovepress.com/parkinsonrsqu...

The above is an interesting read, including various pathways that are depleted with PD treatments.

Also this was interesting:

Should mucuna and 5-HTP be used instead of sinemet etc?

“5-HTP versus carbidopa

Literature documents that 5-HTP administration for L-dopa-induced nausea management is “superior” to carbidopa in several ways. L-dopa-induced nausea etiology is due to peripheral dopamine dominating serotonin and its precursors in competitive inhibition synthesis (AADC), metabolism, and transport.10,11

5-HTP controls L-dopa-induced nausea by the same mechanism as carbidopa: AADC inhibition. Carbidopa inhibition is irreversible. AADC inhibition by 5-HTP is reversible. 5-HTP and L-dopa freely cross the blood–brain barrier and are metabolized by AADC to serotonin and dopamine respectively without biochemical feedback inhibition. With adequate AADC availability, administering 5-HTP will yield unlimited serotonin.5,8,10,11,49,51

L-dopa taken alone, without concomitant 5-HTP administration, is prone to function as a drug with side effects and induces serotonin depletion. 5-HTP is highly effective in controlling L-dopa-induced nausea which removes the need for carbidopa.11”

Another on 5-HTP but note the warning do not take it with antidepressants or it will put you at risk of seratonin syndrome which can be fatal!

nootropicsexpert.com/5-htp/

[MBAnderson]

So people taking 99% pure L-dopa extract from Mucuna are depleting serotonin.

[LAJ12345 in reply to MBAnderson]

It looks like it, but taking carbidopa depletes b6 and seratonin and read the list of all the depletion’s. There are many!

PD-associated dopamine depletion.12,13

PD-associated norepinephrine depletion.14,15

PD-associated epinephrine depletion.15

PD-associated glutathione depletion prior to symptom onset.16–18

PD-associated S-adenosylmethionine depletion.19–21

PD-associated L-cysteine depletion.22

PD is associated with glutathione depletion.16–18 Glutathione depletion may induce L-methionine depletion.23

PD-associated vitamin B6 deficiency.24

PD-associated serotonin depletion.25,26

PD associated with 5-hydroxytryptophan depletion.27

PD-associated tyrosine depletion.28

PD-associated L-dopa depletion.29–39

PD associated with L-tryptophan depletion.31,32

L-dopa-associated L-tyrosine depletion.33

L-dopa-associated L-tryptophan depletion.33

L-dopa-associated S-adenosylmethionine depletion.34–36

L-dopa-associated L-methionine depletion.36

L-dopa-associated L-cysteine depletion.37

L-dopa-associated glutathione depletion.37

L-dopa-associated serotonin depletion.33,34,38–40

Carbidopa-associated vitamin B6 depletion.10,11,41,42

Carbidopa associated serotonin depletion.43,44

Carbidopa-associated dopamine depletion.43

Carbidopa-associated norepinephrine depletion.41

Carbidopa-associated epinephrine depletion.41

Carbidopa-associated vitamin B6 depletion.10,11,41,42 Vitamin B6 depletion may deplete glutathione.45,46

Carbidopa-associated vitamin B6 depletion.10,11,41,42 Vitamin B6 depletion may deplete glutathione.45,46 Glutathione depletion may deplete S-adenosylmethionine.47

Carbidopa-associated vitamin B6 depletion.10,11,41,42 Vitamin B6 depletion may deplete glutathione.45,46 Glutathione depletion may deplete L-methinonine.48

Carbidopa-associated vitamin B6 depletion.10,11,41,42 Vitamin B6 depletion may deplete glutathione.45,46 Glutathione depletion may deplete L-cysteine.48

[MBAnderson in reply to LAJ12345]

Good grief.

[LAJ12345 in reply to MBAnderson]

Yes! Explains why taking just one supplement won’t help. It’s a precarious balance, one thing depleting another. Amazing the body with food can balance all this unless one or another metabolic path has a defect then it starts a whole chain reaction, not helped by pharmaceuticals which can totally overload the system of too strong.

[AmyLindy in reply to LAJ12345]

Stressed 😩 out- geez can someone just give me the big blue arrow to follow ? lol

[bepo in reply to LAJ12345]

My husband takes mucuna along with 5-htp, and tyroseine (sp?) Nausea isn't a problem as long as he takes these supplements with a meal. He also supplements with vitamins B1, B2, B12 and folate, and sometimes glutathione. The important thing is to determine the cause of PD. Is it most often toxins? My husband has been working, since day one to try to get rid of the toxins. He does that through saunas.

[LAJ12345 in reply to MBAnderson]

See above I added another link to info on 5-HTP which is also interesting. Note you can’t take it with antidepressants or you could get seratonin syndrome which can be fatal.

[WinnieThePoo]

It's always interesting to note vested interests in these publications. The authors failed to disclose relationships with DBS Laboratory services and NeuroResearch Clinics, and CHK Nutrition is a subsidiary of West Duluth Distribution Co. The CEO of this company is Amy M. Gunther-Hinz and the Registered Agent is Thais M Hinz. These persons are the daughter and the wife of Dr Marty Hinz. Thais Hinz is also a shareholder of West Duluth Distribution Co

West Duluth manufacture and distribute these supplements, and famously fell foul of the FDA for making unproven medical claims about their products.

[LAJ12345 in reply to WinnieThePoo]

Ah, well spotted Sherlock! I was going to mention that it seemed to support the hintz amino acid theory without noticing that! Do you think it is not true then?

[MarionP in reply to LAJ12345]

Without real and complete raw data for each, you are betting your life on this guy and his family by putting anything of his or his suggestion into your body. Think he and his family-taught-values clan are Mother Theresa? Want to bet your very LIFE on it? Homo Sapiens is well established as having preserved its early collective species-level survival mechanism on individuals doing whatever someone tells them to, or seeing other individuals doing as a group, just because it is told to or shown to and for no other reason, instinctively, readily, happily, anxiety-relieving-ly. But this mechanism also serves the function of removing weaker (from the perspective of furthering the survival of the herd, not any individuals) individuals from the gene pool by using their naivte to remove them from all blood lines they occupy.

The best illustration I can think of of this principle was in one of the Silence of the Lambs movies, I think it was the second movie, a re-enactment from the eyeball point of view of Dr. Lecter's patient and hoped-for-lover millionaire Mason Verger, of when Dr. Lecter first "treated" Mason Verger at Verger's mansion, by getting Verger heavily drugged, strapped into this chair, handed a scalpel, and heard Dr. Lecter suggest "try slicing off your face." Verger happily did. Among other things. Because Lecter simply suggested that he do so.

Just an illustration, remember, it was only a movie. And I have it on good authority that the story might have been fiction.

But my point is: someone with no conscience does not have half a conscience, or a third of a conscience, or behave in ways that are part conscience and part not conscience...and their motive is to compete with you for scarce survival resources in a world where he perceives there is not enough for both of you...and he never stops. Your willingness to offer trust and believe in at least some good will from him is immediately smelled as "prey." Now, when my pet dog's brain smells "prey," her brain does not signal back "cuddle."

[LAJ12345 in reply to MarionP]

Well I do think it may be fact that these chemicals are depleted but just taking large quantities orally is not necessarily going to correct that. If I was to try these it would be in tiny doses, increasing incrementally if it seemed to be helping.

[WinnieThePoo in reply to LAJ12345]

I don't know. But I am wary of vested interests remaining coy whilst plugging research not supported by other experts in the field.

[MarionP in reply to WinnieThePoo]

Without seeing the research, we don't know that it IS research. Charlatans, I guess we don't learn, which was my point, use words to lie and entrap. They don't start over with normal values and morals after the current sentence is over, when the current period is printed. The next sentence comes from the very same person. Past behavior is the best predictor by far of future behavior. Missouri was only half right. Their motto is "prove it." But we never think of the other half, which is "show me you are competent to know proof from fiction."

Which reminds me of a charming movie from a North Carolina writer, done by George C. Scott, called "The Flim Flam Man." Kind of like our politics, except that in the book and movie, it's all relatively harmless.

[MarionP]

This and the resources ("resources") read more like simple accounting of the natural sequence pharmacists refer to as "reaction mechanisms," which can amount to several hundred individual exchanges in chemical transaction chains. As such, reciting what happens naturally does NOT suggest anything more than a description of basic normal chemistry. So what if all the right compounds and molecules are involved at some point and reasonably described in chemical exchange terms...so what? Description does not amount to avenues and prospects for change, nor do they imply that particular interventional controls in the reaction change. Whoever mistakes simple, though explicit, description for control and options for interventions, and step techniques for systemic reliable intervention with predicticable results is just a victim of the story-loving-craving storytelling gene psychologists long ago established in both education and psychology that we have as a way to make some sort of efficient sense of the world we live in, allowing us to wend our way through whatever nature we are in and encounter regardless of any empirical truth...we seem to need a story and context to organize our world to feel less anxiety of the risk of it all in species survival terms...we all have that mistakes having a craved context for some sort of procedural answer for the "fountain of youth", really more the "fountain of survival," if I may make so bold. Nice bedtime story. As well off to arrange for a fecal transplant, have a few drinks, and settle down to wait for the miracles. At least we won't feel as anxious...until the alcohol wears off. Careful about assuming anything more, friends. Meanwhile, I promise I will do the same...order a sandwich from Chick-Fil-A and have some glasses of wine. Best to all.

[pvw2]

This article is over four years old and apparently unaccepted by peers.

[LAJ12345 in reply to pvw2]

Sorry, I should have looked at the date. 🥺

[LindaP50]

Got excited when I started to read this post, then the last post states the article is old and not accepted by peers. Oh well. Uplifted for a few minutes. Perhaps this is one of many reasons many neurologist don't believe in supplements, herbs and such. Well, we'll keep trudging along. Hey, the Chick-Fil-A and a glass of wine sound good right now. Ha!

[LAJ12345 in reply to LindaP50]

Sorry 😪

[LindaP50 in reply to LAJ12345]

no problem -

[marnegro]

Hi. Do you know if 5-htp is able to avoid levodopa( mucuna) be converted to dopamine in the gut before crossing the BBB like carbidopa does? I’m trying to increase my intake of mucuna and lowering the C/L. Thanks!

[LAJ12345 in reply to marnegro]

I don’t know sorry. It says it helps prevent nausea and I think nausea is caused by levodopa breaking down quickly so maybe?