Why You Should Be Careful With Niacin and Nicotinamide Riboside

[Kia17]

Are you using niacin or nicotinamide riboside? If so, watch this video! These supplements can help you age more gracefully and give you more energy, but they can also hurt your liver, mess with your neurotransmitters and your mood, and even sap your energy.

youtu.be/P5UMfCW_23w(Not working as expected?)

[KERRINGTON]

Thought provoking. ..I've been trying to decide whether, or not to continue taking Niagen for extreme fatigue. Its been about 6 months, and there's no improvement in energy....maybe I'll forget it.

[park_bear]

It is good to be aware problems are possible, although he gives no citations for his allegations. There are many comments on YouTube from people benefiting from far more than his 35 mg limit. Niacinamide 500 mg daily has been shown to reduce the risk of nonmelanoma skin cancer by 30%. That is what I take with no problems, but everyone is different.

[Despe]

Sunvox has to comment on this.

[Parkie-]

I took LifeExtension NAD+Cell Regenerator - Nicotinamide Riboside 100 mg once a day for about 3 weeks last year upon reading about it on here.

It worsened my motor symptoms and made me feel worse overall.

Maybe the video provides the reasons why. However, since I get pretty much the same results with high dose thiamine, maybe it's just me...

[sharoncrayn]

Where do you get this garbage?

Ph.d.? in what? garbage collection protocols?

--- I wonder why he doesn't provide his credentials?

Answer: because he has none dummy.

--- nutritional science? yuk. LOL

This tripe really, really irritates me...

-- just another phony bilking the stupid.

S

[TazmanianDevil in reply to sharoncrayn]

LoL

[reedboat2 in reply to sharoncrayn]

Sharon I value your participation in this forum, and I get that you are “irritated”, (not 100% sure why), but are ad hominem attacks really necessary or useful? In this case you attacked the presenter’s lack of credentials, and dismissed the entire presentation as “garbage”, but you failed to mention his main premise: that over use of Niacin impacts methylation groups. I personally would be more interested in addressing the strengths or weaknesses of that argument rather than engaging in a discussion of the credentials of the author.

[sharoncrayn in reply to reedboat2]

Reed:

I value your commentary, but I don't do people's homework for them, let alone my children's. Therefore, I suggest (with kindness) you may want to take some time to review the scientific literature on all forms of b-3 (including the 4 forms of Niacin), their impact on methylation, what methylation is and is not, whether it is relevant to people who have PD, the Methionine Cycle, long acting versus slow acting, why niiacinamide has no effect on cholesterol levels, etc. etc. etc. and report back to me and the others what you find.

You will probably end up with many citations on Niacin alone, but I am sure that you can come to some conclusions after you complete your review of the credible scientific literature. I am also sure you will take time to go through ALL 6-7 credible medical literature databases, which he never did (wonder why not?).

I also suggest you call Dr. Nigel Williams if you live in the UK and discuss with him his concept of DNA methylation and its relevance to Parkinsons or read up on the distinction between DNA methylation and methylation as it relates to PD (the so-called Methylation Pathway). Or read some studies, such as Ina Schmitt's study on L-Dopa increasing DNA methylation in PD patients. I wonder why your Youboob presenter never discussed this important distinction, or at least referenced it, but I am sure you will discuss it in your review.

I also suggest that you explore and hopefully come to some understanding of niacin's CRITICAL role in the homocysteine complex and its importance (which he apparently didn't understand). Increased plasma homocysteine is a potent(!) risk factor for CVD, diabetes and Alzeimer's disease as well as cancer and so-called auto-immune diseases. (CVD stands for cardio vascular diseases such as heart attacks, strokes, etc.) Also, the role of niacin in impacting positively HDL(UP) and LDL(DOWN)

Of course, you will also probably delve into the role of the MTHFR enzyme (which I know something about but nothing compared to Youboob's vast knowledge) and its critical relationship to Methylation and what its function is. And of course explaining to us and your Youboob presenter the 3-4 principal mutations (variations) in the MTHFR gene and whether or not they impact utilization not only of drugs but such things as vitamins and the role of the B vitamins in allowing the MTHFR enzyme to function correctly.

As far as Youboob's phony credentials, which don't exist, I take umbrage at people on Youboob selling/promoting a series of health programs all the while claiming that they are a "Ph.d." (without portfolio of course). It implies some sort of validity to their presentation, which in his case doesn't exist. Many people such as yourself don't understand what he is doing. Where I come from (and obviously not where you come from), that is called "scamming". Or perhaps you know it simply as theft.

NOTE WELL!: The NEJM article published in July of 2014 titled: Effects of ER Niacin and high risk CVD patients" (which is the basis for "niacin is BAD for you" garbage) looked exclusively at one type of prescription "extended-release" niacin even though it was previously reported in several studies that the only relevant and effective form of niacin was the IMMEDIATE release. (yes, the non-prescription IR form is very inexpensive compared to this type of niacin which was Merck's baby). Yet many self proclaimed nutritional experts never understood the distinction between the four forms of niacin and their efficacy differences and keep telling everyone niacin is BAD. Nor did they bother to read and comprehend the actual study which focused exclusively on the negative impact of one drug: Merck's ER niacin-laropiprant.

Other ER niacin drugs, such as NIASPAN. did not replicate laropiprnat's results in their clinical trials. However, neither drug showed any ability to reduce (Niaspan in conjunction with a statin) the occurrence of coronary heart disease death, nonfatal myocardial infarction, ischemic stroke, hospitalization for acute coronary syndrome or symptom-driven coronary or cerebral revascularization procedures.

This should give you something to think about.

S

[sharoncrayn in reply to reedboat2]

I truly hesitate to be so terse about his other comments re: nicotinamide riboside, but I am afraid I must on this nonsensical thread.

So far there is no evidence from human or animal studies that nicotinamide riboside reduces methyl donors enough to contribute to any metabolic or other physiological problems. In fact, the few pre-clincial studies on NR use have shown it to be very beneficial for liver health. Total contradiction of Youboob.

Remember: Nicotinamide is not the same as nicotinamide riboside, nor is it the same as niiacin. Niacin IR is at a ratio of 2:5 in terms of an equialent NR dose.

[sharoncrayn in reply to sharoncrayn]

is nicotinamide riboside (chloride) the same as Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide?

Sometimes confused as the same or synonymous, but they are not the same. NR is a PRECURSOR to NAD. Huge difference.

Niacinamide and nicotinamide are for all intents and purposes synonymous as derivatives of niacin. Splitting hairs.

[sharoncrayn in reply to reedboat2]

A short answer to the liver issue/methyul group deterioration (demethylation) with high doses of niacin.

#1 Which type of niacin are we talking about? Makes a big difference. ER niacin in general or most prescription niacin slow release is not the type you want to use. It has some pluses, but also some minuses as I point out below in my NEJM article review. Stick with non-prescription IR (highest quality) under 2 grams per day.

#2 The 2 studies always referenced as "niacin is BAD" dealt with truly SICK people.

Dyslipidemic (lipid degredation) men and sickle cell anemia patients. These groups are irrelevant to this issue if you are talking about the general population or even the PD population. Drawing a conclusion from these individuals and their results makes no sense to me.

[Hidden]

Thank you for sharing I was taking it for about six months and became extremely weak. I stopped taking it.

[sharoncrayn in reply to Hidden]

If you were also taking other medications, particularly a statin, and are over 60, some evidence suggests that fatigue occurs with this combination.

[tigerclaw in reply to sharoncrayn]

Hi Sharon,

I have a question, and looks to me you are very knowledgeable regards about Niacin.

My mom is 75 years old, and she diagnosed first with Essential tremor 5 years ago from the first neurologist which are changed followed by the second Neurologist diagnosed her with PK. She takes currently 25/100 Sinemet 3 times a day but honestly I don't see to much improvement in her both hand limb tremor. But her motor symptoms are not great at all, to get up from chair or walking etc. I'm giving her magnesium Glycinate 400mg and B1 hcl 100mg to hopping her motor function will improve slow by slow. But about 4 months ago she started to have Anxiety attacks in the night before bed time. I give her lorazepam to easy her hot flashes what I noticed in her hands and the terrible feeling she was going true. So lorazepam looks like helping her and after 10-15 minutes she's fine. I'm only giving her when is no other option and necessary to help her quick. I try anything and everything you name it to help her for the Anxiety. So far no luck be honest with you. So I was doing quiet a lots of reading and research and I come a cross about Niacin, and how much helping people with anxiety and so on.. with lots of different benefit. I would like to try to see if it would help my mom. The only thing is she is diabetic type 2 as well, so I would like to ask you, what do you think? And if its work what dose should I give her to try to see the benefit ? Regards her tremor I'm ready to order the Mucuna prurient as I read lots of good thing about it, how its improve the motor function and stops the tremor. So the only thing she takes right now the Sinemet, and magnesium , and Thiamin B1 HCL and for her blood sugar she takes Diamicron 60mg a day. Thank You Sharon

[sunvox]

I'll chime in briefly here since I have been asked by several individuals to do so . . .

Admittedly, Sharon's online demeanor tends towards condescension and abrasiveness which I admit to on occasion myself, but overall what Sharon has to say is far better educated and scientifically supported than most posts on this forum. Dr. Masterjohn has a Ph.D. in Nutrition from UCONN (suffice to say I would not consider those to be laudable credentials) and uses his YouTube videos and website to sell himself as a nutritional consultant.

Bottom line: As Sharon pointed out above nicotinamide riboside has research that shows it may actually have protective benefits to the liver which is a contradiction to Dr. Masterjohn's speculative comments, and the theory behind why a person with Parkinson's might benefit from taking high doses of NR has nothing to do with extra energy, or improving symptoms, but everything to do with DNA repair, and slowing progression. Remember there are ongoing human clinical trials of NR both for Parkinson's and Mitochondrial Dysfunction that are treating subjects with 1000 mg per day, and there have already been several human clinical trials examining the safety of NR at doses up to 1000 mg per day in patients of various ages.

On the flip side, if I were a healthy individual I would not be persuaded by the hype of Chromadex as to the purported benefits of Niagen to slow aging and boost energy.

Joe in NY

[sharoncrayn in reply to sunvox]

Joe:

ChromoDex is no fly by night. They did go to the trouble of running CTs on Niagen, so I would remain objective. Cambridge and Washington are running their 2 current ones which I haven't bothered to check to see if they have been published. Both are very small CTs. Their 2nd CT was published. Way too short, but a good sized population.

Thanks for pointing out my oversight as to MasterJohn's credentials. They were not available on his Youboob channel nor on his website when I checked. However, upon redoubling my efforts I acknowledge that he has posted them on another of his various websites. This program at UCONN is not exactly what I would call rigorous. 30 credit hours beyond your BS? I'm not impressed.

On the flip side, I see no reference to his undergraduate work or his tenure as a post grad Ph.d. candidate, nor his Ph.d. thesis. Somewhat strange for a "promoter", but each of us do things differently.

As to his presentation, he was basing his conclusions on a study that was irrelevant to the issue. Not the best way to do things.

If I can simplify everything, if anyone is really concerned about Niacin or NR in their system, have your M.D. write a script for a complete liver blood profile battery. Send your blood to Mayo/Hopkins or a comparable quality lab. Repeat every 4 months while on Niacin or NR. Remember, not every physician is an expert in analyzing blood work.