happened to see this article In a news feed re... - CLL Support

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happened to see this article In a news feed regarding B and T cells, Covid and antibodies…

Curling123 profile image
15 Replies

I have wondered why if we don’t make antibodies by getting vaccinated, then why bother. This article gives me some hope that we are protected more than I thought. Hope that this article is credible. Just wanted to post it for our information. Subject may have been touched on before in HealthUnlocked.

B cell-deficient patients gain protective T cell immunity following SARS-CoV-2 vaccination and infection, study finds

B cell deficiency is a common condition that can result either from immunosuppressant drugs used to treat autoimmune disease or certain cancers—such as rituximab (RTX)—or from natural immune deficiency. These patients suffer from a weakened immune system that is less effective at combating both viral and bacterial diseases. As B cells are a key type of immune cell that produces antibodies, a deficiency results in a significant decrease in antibody count that can lead to severe disease or death upon infection with SARS-CoV-2.

Researchers at the Ragon Institute of Mass General, MIT, and Harvard; the Massachusetts Institute of Technology; the Koch Institute for Integrative Cancer Research; Monash University; Brigham and Women's Hospital (BWH) and Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH) have found that vaccination against or infection with SARS-CoV-2 produces a robust T cell response in B cell-deficient patients, providing reassuring evidence for the immunocompromised.

The findings, published recently in Science Translational Medicine, provide key insights regarding SARS-CoV-2 vaccination for patients with B cell deficiency as well as new understanding of immunodeficiency on a broad scale.

"We found that patients who are deficient in B cells, either by treatment or naturally, have T cell responses to SARS-CoV-2 infection or vaccination that were significantly elevated relative to healthy individuals," says Gaurav Gaiha, MD, DPhil, faculty member at the Ragon Institute, assistant professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School, gastroenterology physician at Massachusetts General Hospital, and senior author of the study. "And in the vaccinated individuals, they had substantially better clinical outcomes even though they lacked anti-spike antibodies."

Existing studies have previously explored the impact of COVID-19 vaccination in individuals with autoimmune disorders undergoing treatment with specific B cell-depleting antibodies. However, this study was the first to evaluate the impact of B cell deficiency following SARS-CoV-2 infection and to also evaluate the effect of vaccination on clinical outcomes in this immunocompromised population.

Findings indicated that individuals with B cell deficiencies, even without detectable anti-spike antibodies, demonstrate heightened CD8 T cell responses to SARS-CoV-2 after prior infection or vaccination. Significantly, these individuals experience markedly reduced rates of hospitalization and moderate and severe COVID-19 after vaccination, despite the absence of detectable anti-spike protein antibodies.

"The question we had when we initiated the study was for these people who don't have B cells, and essentially will not make antibodies to either SARS-CoV-2 infection or vaccination—what's the outcome immunologically, and is there any clinical benefit for these B cell deficient patients to get vaccinated if they're not going to make antibodies?" Gaiha said.

"And so I think the key result from our paper is that the answer is yes. Essentially, they should get vaccinated because they have much better clinical outcomes, likely due to these strong T cell responses. I think this study gives important clinical guidance to this particular immunocompromised patient population on this key issue."

In summary, this research sheds light on the robust immune responses in B cell-deficient individuals following COVID-19 infection or vaccination. These responses, particularly the CD8 T cell reactions, contribute to a decreased risk of severe illness after vaccination, even in the absence of detectable antibodies.

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Curling123
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15 Replies
neurodervish profile image
neurodervish

Thank you for sharing this. It looks very promising, and potentially confirms what many of us have hoped and speculated was the case.

I found a link to it: eurekalert.org/news-release...

Looks like it was originally published by Science Translational Medicine, a peer reviewed site published by the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) science.org/doi/10.1126/sci...

gardening-girl profile image
gardening-girl

Thanks for this post reminding us that even if we don’t have a B cell response to vaccination, we do have the possibility of a T cell response. The most surprising thing to me in the report is that the T cell response to infection or vaccination was actually higher in B cell-deficient individuals than healthy individuals.

T cell responses to SARS-CoV-2 infection and vaccination are elevated in B cell deficiency and reduce risk of severe COVID-19

medicalxpress.com/news/2023...

SCIENCE TRANSLATIONAL MEDICINE VOL. 15, NO. 724 Nov29, 2023

science.org/doi/10.1126/sci...

Last Spring  CLLerinOz posted the results of a study in Australia that reported "despite being heavily immunocompromised, haematology patients generate strong cellular immune responses against SARS-CoV-2 after vaccination, on par with that of healthy individuals."

healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

neurodervish profile image
neurodervish in reply togardening-girl

Anecdotally, Justasheet1 (who is on BTKis) shared that, despite having no antibodies post vaccine, he had lasting antibodies 7 months after infection. healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

bennevisplace profile image
bennevisplace in reply togardening-girl

It's odd that B-cell deficiency can lead to excessive T-cell activation. What's going on do you think? The paper didn't explain. Are dendritic cells working overtime?

LeoPa profile image
LeoPa

And now the more complicated question. We know that CLL tends to exhaust T cells. Does frequent boosting rejuvenate them? Or does it exhaust them further. What's the long-term effect of frequent boosters on T cell production? What's the long-term effect of frequent infections on T cell production? Getting infected as infrequently as humanly possible (all infections not only covid) seems to me the best option. Covid is on the rise again and striking left and right in my area.

country76 profile image
country76 in reply toLeoPa

My T cells are reversed and .8. I read 1.0 normal. I need to check this out with a Cll specialist.

I am hoping to improve them since I just found out I have had an infection for several years on an old root canal tooth I wasn't aware of and the dentist missed. My body has done pretty well under the circumstances.

I have been cured of thyroid cancer, Legionnaires disease, and Covid. I have had all the vaccines. I managed to survive and went into remission.

AussieNeil profile image
AussieNeilPartnerAdministrator in reply tocountry76

When you say "My T cells are reversed", I expect you are referring to the CD4 (helper T cells) to CD8 (cytotoxic T cell) ratio. This has been known about for over 40 years in CLL. It's because CLL encourages the growth of cytotoxic T cells, so the ratio goes down. Mine is similar to yours and only slightly improved with treatment.

See

nature.com/articles/s41375-...

Neil

country76 profile image
country76 in reply toAussieNeil

Yes the CD4 and CD8. Thank you, I had never been tested for this before or heard of reversed T cells. I have had CLL for many years, and I have only been treated for the last 4 years.

I became alarmed.

country76 profile image
country76 in reply tocountry76

What do you think improved your T cells? However the .8 I mentioned was the lab result.

Curling123 profile image
Curling123

Excellent questions. It’s such a puzzle to us all . My doc said that this disease is complicated and even doctors don’t have all the answers.

bennevisplace profile image
bennevisplace

Thanks for posting this.

It's an interesting study, but behind the paywall I would like to know more about the immunodeficiencies in the patient population. Those with primary immunodeficency and those treated for high grade lymphomas would not necessarily be prey to T-cell exhaustion like a long-term CLL patient. To quote (or possibly misquote) Dr Brian Koffman in these columns, though to be fair it was something of a throw-away remark, "CLL patients have lousy T cells". As an MD having undergone CAR-T cell therapy himself, Brian should know.

Despite that CLL patients nearing treament, or in-treatment, or recently treated, may be badly depleted in functional B- and T-cells, more than one study carried out during the pandemic found that most CLL patients' T-cell responses to COVID vaccination were as strong as controls' responses, even when the patients' antibody responses were negligible.

We've still a lot to learn about the immune system.

mbbinbrooklyn profile image
mbbinbrooklyn

Back in the early days of the pandemic, my oncologist remarked that there's so much we don't know about COVID, CLL, and the immune system, specifically referencing T cells.

SERVrider profile image
SERVrider

Well, I have had 8 covid vaccinations so far. Also, I have been Covid-free so far. Belt and braces? Luck? basic precautions yes, but no living like a hermit. As they say, keep taking the tablets, in this case Covid vaccinations.

mdsp7 profile image
mdsp7

my.clevelandclinic.org/heal...

This gives a nice picture of T cell activity. Thank you for the information. It helps!

Curling123 profile image
Curling123

thank you. Easy to read and understand B and T cell function.

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