I am not sure if it is because we are wearing masks still, sometimes for quite long periods but I am noticing that my breathing isn't as good as it was. When we flew to Tenerife a couple of weeks ago, we wore FFP3 masks for the whole time. Does anyone else have this problem an I wondered if masks with easier breathing filters were available. I shall mention this to my consultant in April. I do recover normal breathing quickly.
Easy breathe masks: I am not sure if it is... - CLL Support
Easy breathe masks
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kitchengardener2
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Hi, I think sometimes I have the same feeling. Whether it be a short time or a much longer time. Not sure if there is a bit of ‘silent’ angst thrown in with me. Have been known to visit a nice quiet loo in a lounge at the airport and taken a few deep breaths🤫. But then I have also come out of a trip to the supermarket, and that first breath outside is like ‘gold’. I don’t think you will be alone. Take care
Thank you, it's difficult to know what to do for the best. Stay safe x
Hi, I hope you are ok. Think I am feeling a bit ‘off’ today and so feeling super sensitive. But I just want to say that I feel we are all on this website for mutual support, whether it is give or take. I also just read your previous post re holidaying. You are one of my favourites and I learn something from all of them. Not sure where or how some of the ‘not so gracious posts came’, but please ignore them if possible. I am a bit of a direct person myself, but some of these - wow. Take a few deep breaths - without a mask on!! Onwards and upwards. Still shaking my head. Take care. P.s. I love the jam jars with marmalade in!!! Keep in touch xxxx
Thank you for your support. We grow so much produce and also forage for wild fruit. Those jars, I think have Rosehip syrup, made with the addition of lemon and ginger, this provides a lovely sweetener for porridge in the winter. I make fruit gins and a variety of chutney.
Yummy, well done x
I hope the few deep breaths at a quiet airport loo isn’t referring to taking the deep breaths without your mask on.
There sadly is a misconception out there that if you are alone, you are safe. If you’re the only person in a store, or bathroom, or no one else is in a break room you’re safe. It’s likely promulgated by the social distancing rules. The pros of social distancing was at one point it reduced the capacity inside. It also reduced “direct hits” from others’ coughs/sneezes. The con is that people think if they’re alone it’s safe to unmask.
Covid is airborne, it moves like smoke and can linger in the air for up to 16 hours.. (A reason you sometimes see people talk about scheduling the first appointments of the week or morning..)
Places with poor ventilation have increased concentrations of covid lingering in the air. Bathrooms/loos are notorious for poor ventilation. And then there’s the part where flushing causes what has been called “toilet plume.” This can re-aerosolize tiny bits of feces and urine— and covid (either if someone is shedding the virus through their waste, or by helping keep the virus aloft). The air blowing hand driers, especially the dyson type ones that allow water to collect a bit from the prior users are also known for blowing around stuff you really don’t want to breathe.
How did you know🙆♀️. Guilty as charged, but I do feel guilty every time I do it. Thanks for the mention - appreciated
Going to cause a rumpus here. Why if your bloods are normal are you still wearing a mask in the supermarket? I smile when I see shoppers masked up yet have bare hands.
I wear no mask now but always wear gloves when out and about and have to touch any surface. Then once home the hand wash. Numerous ways of opening shop doors with out touching!
I’ve been on two post covid flights and it was then compulsory masks but not in the airport. Someone coughing I move away or mask up but this is a rarity.
Yes, we are immune compromised but we are vaccinated 6 times, soon 7. Life needs to get back to normal for those with stable normal bloods as many are in remission.
kitchengardener2• in reply to
Sorry to disagree but I have had post vaccination antibody tests and each time they came back negative for antibodies for covid. So my husband (who incidentally has super antibodies) and I continue to wear our masks. As we know it's possible that we immunosuppressed do have some antibodies lurking in the T Cells but we would rather not take the risk of contracting covid, so far ... touch wood, we have stayed clear.We still wear gloves and wipe trollies down at the supermarket and all shopping is also wiped down. We are selective in who visits our home. Family and a few friends are asked to test prior to visiting and whilst we are trying to get back to our social groups, many of these involve being in groups either in meeting venues or people's homes so again we haven't resumed 'normal service '
• in reply tokitchengardener2
I know many will disagree with me as they take care of their leukaemia in their own way.
I take care but the masks, no. I don’t want to spend my twilight years in a mask. I want normality.
Okay I put myself at risk but have been in many high risk situations and no to covid yet. Covid no longer has to be a killer and that is why for me I live life in freedom without masks.
CLL is a chronic cancer, I’ve got to learn to live with it; not stop my life because of it.
Just a personal thing and everybody is different.
Best wishes
kitchengardener2• in reply to
Yes I can go with your comments and even agree with many of your statements but getting back to our normally means travelling and we don't want to take risks of being ill for the most part of of trips abroad .... or heaven forbid, needing hospitalisation whilst abroad.
agree
SeymourB• in reply to
devonrr -
I got COVID while watch and wait from my wife last May after 4 mRNA shots and an American dose of Evusheld . So I think that vaccines are not at all effective in preventing infection. I did get Paxlovid, and tested positive from only 21 days, but I got a secondary bacterial sinus infection that lasted over an additional month. That bacteria was my own, commensal bacteria.
I think we each vary considerably in immune function due to inherited genetics, ALC in serum and marrow, and other factors that have yet to be discovered.
I continue to mask indoors in crowded areas. I take it off outdoors, but distance myself and try to stay upwind from people.
=seymour=
scryer99• in reply to
Risk management is not about absolutes, it's about degrees of protection and degrees of risk.
Many CLLers post-treatment have blood that has returned to normal, but may still have immunocompromise issues for some time. My oncologist was clear about this when we planned my course of treatment.
But "immunocompromise" is a catchall term, and details may differ. Immunoglobulin deficiency, neutropenia, the timing of previous vaccines, the effectiveness of vaccines in your situation, all may vary.
Prevention effectiveness also may vary. Social distancing from whom, and for how long? Regular masks or N95s? How well do the masks fit? Do you wash your hands frequently or not? Are you rubbing your face and eyes or not?
I agree about "getting back to normal" and am certainly not an overly nervous type, having taking multiple international trips while in Watch and Wait. However... when evaluating risk, one must take into account the risk and the cost of mitigating that risk.
The risk of infection for CLLers might be higher or lower, but it's certainly non-zero. More importantly, the impact of falling afoul of infection can be very very high.
The cost of prevention is pretty low. Wearing an N95 is cheap, easy, and provides some level of effectiveness, verifiable by data.
So why not wear one?
It's Pascal's Wager in real life.
SofiaDeo• in reply to
We have several friends who continue to mask. One discovered he *liked* not getting the "yearly crud" he seemed to get every winter.
In other countries, many have masked for years due to air pollution, and well before Covid. What's "normal" is relative. I've been wearing an N95 mask during flu season since 2011. It's really not a big deal. As lankisterguy noted, there are valved masks that carpenters and painters have worn for decades, I was taught to wear one as a kid when working with varnish or sanding stuff indoors. I also was taught to wear eye protection like wraparound goggles.
Not everyone chooses to use safety precautions in various situations, but those who do aren't "abnormal". And bare hands are easy to wash, now that we know the circulating pathogens can be stopped by washing/hand sanitizer. I no longer glove up except when pumping gas into the car, but am masked inside stores. I could wear gloves, but I choose not to. Please don't be critical of people who choose differently than you. Taking precaution to avoid infection is not "abnormal".
thank you for your reply. It is important to realise that we ar3 all different and all react differently to situations.
I find the Cambridge mask from England to be very easy breathing. They are rated N99 and are washable. The one way valve makes them easy breathing as your exhale leaves easily. They are unpopular in closed settings like a doctor’s cubicle because although you are protecting yourself you are not protecting others.
In the work world you can’t wear a mash without getting a required/regular spirometry test to ensure you can function with the Restrictions/Stress, effective, respirators/masks put on you
So in my recent experience the N 95 is Considerably more difficult to breathe through than a basic surgical mask
Thanks but I am lucky enough not to work now but I am more concerned about those people who just say 'get a life, you have all your jabs, you'll be fine' Yes I will be fine if I protect myself which frankly is my first concern. If others are lucky enough to have antibodies, either through infection or vaccination, then I am incredibly jealous but life is what it is and we have to take strength from wherever we can.
Well, I have significant asthma, and still wear the N95 mask while having IVIG (Infusions), up to 5 hours long, in a pretty poorly ventilated hospital unit. We each decide what we must do to achieve whatever goals we have. It’s up to the individual. Most people don’t mask here where I am now. That’s ok, I will do what I must do (and my husband does the same, to protect me). Let’s just let it go at this point, huh?
lankisterguyVolunteer
Hi kitchengardener2,
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Whenever I am around others not wearing masks I use these respirator masks with exhaust valves. That keeps the mask much drier and more comfortable longer, so the breathing effort is less.
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p-y3-www-amazon-co-uk-kalia...
amazon.co.uk/JSP-Moulded-Di...
amazon.co.uk/3M-2X-9322/dp/...
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Note that the three listed above have slightly different shapes, so choose the shape that fits your face the best- a tight fit without gaps is important. Also note that the all have headbands - the ear loop type don't qualify for FFP2 or FFP3
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Len
FFP3 respirator mask with valve.
Thank you so very much, will get some bought.
Are these not just dust masks? I am not sure that they fulfill the requirements of an N95 mask. Do your medical officials advocate these types of masks? Many thanks.
I'm not certain I understand your question.
The person I was responding to is in Europe or UK, so the rating used is FFP2 - which is similar to N95 rating which is a dust rating.
For USA patients the medical rating is NIOSH and the following two masks that meet that requirement are: amazon.com/gp/product/B096B...
and
amazon.com/gp/product/B08Y6...
HOWEVER these DO NOT have an Exhaust Valve- which was the intent of the reply.
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Len
Mahalo. Up too late, too tired.
My point was- do we need to wear masks anymore. I didn’t attempt to hijack the thread. If I did I’m sorry.
I was polite in my viewpoints and firmly believe that life is for living, even if there are risks. We are only on this planet once!
KatieBlue• in reply to
I too, believe life is worth living. And with as good of a quality life as is possible. Covid is robbing people of that. It is still robbing others of life entirely. It is airborne. It infects through our mucosa (mouth, nose, eyes.
You wrote “I don’t want to spend my twilight years in a mask. I want normality.”
I read a great piece how those who bring up wanting normality actually need to take time to grieve the past. Things have changed. What was normal will not be restored.
Covid has brought about a huge reduction to life expectancy. If you are fortunate enough to survive it, it doesn’t just shave years off and off you go a little sooner. It sucks the quality of life away, too.
I will admit that for those who are opposed to wearing a mask, I don’t understand what is so onerous about them.
Would I prefer to go without? Sure. Would I prefer to not have to use other assistive devices? Sure. But my life is better if I avail myself of those assustive devices.
As to gloves, well, they can be helpful in some instances and with certain viruses. Not as much airborne viruses. I am less enthusiastic about gloves because many forget they are now just skin for your skin. When gloves started to be used in food prep in our area, I recall observing people working in a local deli, slicing meat and cheese, dishing up premade food, and they would still touch everything. Meat, cheese, push the glasses back on the nose, and so on. Cross-contaminating everything they touched. Yes their hands remained clean. But their gloves were not. Some are aware of this and others not as much. Gloves are going to be more protective in the cases of disease that spreads through contact. Masks are going to be more protective in the case of airborne virus— covid, bird flu, etc.
One last thing, in general, that I see come up frequently in discussions on various platforms is that people say what I do isn’t harming anyone else. One of the worst blows to public health was the propagation of “you do you.” Often put forth by our very own public health agencies. That is not what public health is. It is the antithesis of “public health.”We do not live in a vacuum.
I personally am thankful for the masking requirements we had in the community for as long as we did. That may have been what broke the transmission chain and what prevented my family or me from getting covid.
Jmiah717• in reply to
To the folks that are wearing masks everywhere, you do you and whatever you feel is necessary. I won't get into a big debate but having had Covid at least 2 times and once for over a month due to treatment, I know that for me, wearing a mask outside of a medical setting is not worth it. I don't want to live my life that way anymore. I did for years and it took a toll on my mental health and relationships of those around me.
If those decisions bite me in the end, that's a decision that I'm willing to live with in order to live the type of life I want to live. I get that's not for everyone and totally get what is being said about not wanting to be sick on vacations...totally makes sense to me. I just can't do it anymore unless I'm in a place where it's mandated like a medical setting.
I think it's okay to have varying acceptance of risk levels and varying opinions on what we should do.
I do find masks can be a problem when I am walking at a quicker pace. Recently, I found my mask restrictive when I was waiting in the room for my blood test to be done - this wasn't long after having a mild cough. I used a deeper, slower breath and leaned forward. It helped me return to normal breathing but that was just a short term thing. I'm ok with masks generally but I do appreciate when I can walk free of masks in a park or open countryside. I hope you find the masks with a valve to be better.
kitchengardener2 -
I continue to check in on Aaron Collins' YouTube channel, which focuses on the American market.
youtube.com/watch?v=0me15TZ...
He's a mechanical engineer who does aerosol science to test filtration efficiency and breathing resistance of several hundred masks.
He shares his data on his Google Drive:
drive.google.com/drive/fold...
His FAQ is at:
docs.google.com/document/d/...
Look for the Master Mask Testing Data Set spread sheet:
docs.google.com/spreadsheet...
It lists certification, shape, strap type, Filtration Efficiency, and Computed Old Pressure Drop, It also has a Supplier 1 column for some of the masks for where to safely get one. He also shows dimensions of each mask, because an XL from one manufacturer might be the same as an L from another.
He warns about counterfeit masks available on sites like Amazon and eBay, and has tested some that viewers have sent in. He recommends buying from the manufacturer where possible.
youtube.com/watch?v=_LOyzaK...
Mask Nerd Short - Counterfeit Masks?
I think that buying from a manufacturers Store on Amazon is probably safe. Avoid re-sellers!
Choose a mask with high filtration efficiency first and then low pressure drop. Try to get one or 2 sizes of the mask to check for best fit. One can certainly find FFP2/KN95/KF94 masks that are over 99% efficient. One FFP3 he tested only to 97% efficiency, but others were 99% and one was 100%. A good fitting FFP2 is likely much better than a poor fitting FFP3.
I'm using the BOTN KF94 masks from behealthyusa.net/ because it has adjustable ear loops. But I cannot find a UK dealer. I also like the Powecom KN95 masks from powecomsupply.com/ which directs one to bonafidemasks.com/ . The Project N95 site is good in the U.S., too: projectn95.org/
=seymour=
I think the mask is a tradeoff.... if it's easy to breathe, odds are it's not as effective. Though I have not tried the exhaust value masks recommended in this thread.
I've noticed some effect on breathing wearing good N95 masks. I get out of breath and tired more easily. And I had to do an echo stress test wearing one last year, which was terrible. But they are breathable as long as you take it slow.
I find that FFP3s are hard to wear for more than half an hour or so. I use them in supermarkets. We are taking a flight to Germany in a couple of months, and I think I will have to make do with an FFP2.
Unless you are in a known highly contagious closed environment, a FFP3/N99 may be a bit of overkill. These are usually used when medical staff have to go work with patients having a known, highly infectious, airborne transmitted, disease, confined to a small space like a positive pressure hospital room. FFP2/N95 are generally used/recommended for moderate to lower risk situations, especially if you use an eye goggle or put in moisturizing eye drops, to coat the eye area. The risk of contagion from the eye is extremely small, but it's not zero. Covering both eyes and nose/mouth with decent protection, IMO is a bit less risky than doing extreme mouth/nose protection and zero eye protection.
I have no such problems. At times I even tend to forget that I have a mask on.
Hello kitchengardener2
I suspect that as you exhale you are breathing out carbon dioxide, which is being trapped in your mask, particularly as the mask traps more and more moisture. I prefer the cloth masks with one way valve. Unfortunately, my cancer clinic requires their pleated paper masks, I suspect because they can be incinerated and cheap. We are awash in discarded mask trash. I do not wear a mask to protect other people as I do not cough and if I were coughing, I would wear a mask. Wearing a mask is a personal choice and I would wear a mask on airplane but not to go into a store. Unfortunately, the mask has become a visible symbol of compliance when person may or may not be contagious. Stay safe, you are your best protector.
kitchengardener2 and to all others in the thread, you are each doing what is right for you which results in less stress. Now, that last "less stress" part is important. I will wear my mask when I'm closed in a room full of people, in the market if packed with customers. I have relaxed some cautions, and know it is good fortune some virus hasn't gotten to me. I carry my mask with me always. I never forget My immune system is compromised by CLL. Each day and every place I go I assess and decide to wear a mask or not. 🙂 Sandra
Perfectly agree and we are generally the same. Guess we just have to accept that some will consider us strange but I care not!! I and my husband will continue to protect us. I will ask my consultant for her views, it's really just the breathlessness which concerns me. I will report back in early April.
I read comments that N99/ FFP3 is harder work than N95/ FFP/2. I depended on the latter for three years, in various situations I'd otherwise have avoided. I don't mean I've been wearing the same mask for three years continuously 😷 The longest stretch was 10 hours, London to Manhattan KS, flights and terminal buildings, and after that the open air was very welcome.
Did you take it off at all in that time, or just go without food and drink? The latter would be a real ordeal!
We did take regular swigs of water, without inhaling, mask to one side. For this and other purposes, RH = dirty side, LH = clean side. Had ordered Asian vegetarian dinner which always arrives before anyone else's and can be scoffed quickly with minimal exposure. I don't eat snacks or breakfast on board.
Drank a coffee to go in the terminal, sipped as per water.
Hi, I recently flew to Edinburgh from Chicago and masked with:
I found it easy to wear and my glasses did not fog when they were on. I did remove my mask to eat/drink while in flight. We did have some clearly sick passengers, at the back of the plane. They were not masked. So, in the spirit of full disclosure, I wear this personal fan to blow air away from me. I know it's going to get some eye rolls but I travel long haul often.
amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08911JG...
This mask was approved for me, pre covid, via my Oncologist/Hemo Dr here in Chicago. He had seen them while in New Zealand.
My whole adventure kicked off with a series of PE's and some lung damage in 2019. My dr felt I could still travel safely and protect myself better with a mask, based on the lung damage I had after the PE's. It wasn't an order but a chat on how I could continue safely. His opinion was, "It doesn't hurt and a great way for an extra level if protection." He had no idea how his mask chats would become exponential.
That was November 2019.
Wishing everyone the safest of travels!
I love the 3M Aura N95 which allows easier breathing with a tight fit than any other mask that I tried. I buy real 3M Auras at Walgreens. My glasses don't fog, a biggie. On long group hikes where we push hills my breath condenses faster than the mask can release vapor so after 30 minutes I do switch out masks.
My Aura mask was fine for my annual 4 +hour appointment with my CLL specialist. Even with nervousness over potential treatment there was no condensation build- up. And I use stairs instead of elevators at the parking garage and at the medical facility.
Hello lexie
I use elevators when possible because I dislike using handrails someone else has used. 
I don't touch handrails and use stairs productively. It is a 5 hour drive so I value the activity before more sitting for labs, waiting room, exam room, so on. Ditto for return drive.
I had difficulty breathing at the beginning of covid, but I think a lot of it is psychological. Now my mask is just like part of my clothing. I find I need to change my N95 mask after 6-8 hours of wear. More frequently if doing a lot of talking or if you are a mouth breather. I use the fold flat mask from 3M. I wore it on a cardiac treadmill test where my heartrate went up to 170 and I was breathing hard and had no problem. My oxygen was still at 99% at the end of the test.
That's all very interesting. I recover very quickly so don't think it's anything serious. I will mention to my consultant in April.
There are different breathability levels for masks— some across manufacturers and some even between styles by the same manufacturer.
Here in the US, Aaron Collins, who is also known as @masknerd tested many many masks for both efficacy (were they really 95% effective? More? Less?) and breathability. Aaron even did a segment comparing real and counterfeit masks, which looked remarkably alike.
He has complied his results into a file available at his YouTube. I don’t know whether he tested many of the UK equivalents or not, however.
Some people like elastomeric masks as they seem to be more breathable. And some feel the seal is much better. However, it is important to note fit can vary and some individuals haven’t been able to get a good fit with them. This holds true for any mask, but I mention it with elastomeric masks because it fad sometimes been incorrectly advised that elastomeric masks work for anyone.
Others have gone the P100 route for breathability.
I hope you are able to find a high quality mask with better breathability.
I wear a plastic face shield that has numerous benefits over paper and cloth masks. You might want to research that for yourself to come to the same conclusion.
A plastic face shield should be used with, not instead of a cloth mask per, with my emphasis healthline.com/health-news/... (from September 2020)
"Although the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) continues to make face masks one of its primary recommendations for preventing the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 — the virus that causes COVID-19 — some people are turning to plastic face shields for protection as they can be more comfortable.
However, medical experts say a plastic face shield does not provide adequate protection from COVID-19 when used by itself.
Instead, experts recommend plastic face shields only be used as a supplement to cloth face coverings, not in lieu of them.
:
“Face shields are excellent at preventing droplets from coming into contact with the nose, mouth, and eyes, which are the body sites that the virus enters to establish infection,” Edmond added.
However, while plastic face shields do provide a barrier of protection, droplets in the environment can still be inhaled through the open areas around the plastic visor."
We now know that cloth masks are not very effective at filtering out the coronavirus and that wearing a well fitted N95/FFP2 mask provides superior protection.
I couldn't find reputable evidence that plastic face shields provide superior protection to a well fitted N95/FFP2 mask. Perhaps you could share it?
Neil
There is no evidence that face shields filter various viruses, because they don't. They are recommended when actual spashes or sprays of body fluids are a potential hazard:
cdc.gov/infectioncontrol/pd...
A face shield is used to prevent actual fluids from getting into ones eyes, nose, or mouth. They do not filter at all, and will not protect one if the air is contaminated.
"Medical experts": Are you talking about Fauci, Collins, et al? Or perhaps you're talking about all the "experts" at Twitter, Facebook, etc., who shut down all dissenting viewpoints on various aspects of Covid-19 and its origins? *** Very simply, my face shield goes from my forehead to several inches below my chin, and from ear to ear, and is supported by a strap that goes around my head and over my ears. *** I have yet to read, see, or hear anyone or anything to support the claim that Covid-19 or any other viruses can get through, into, or around my plastic shield. Although I sing your praises every chance I get—and SofiaDeo's also—I must say that you're wrong about this matter. *** Perhaps you or SofiaDeo—or anyone else—can share some well-documented information with regard to your position. I would be highly interested in reading said documentation.
No, I'm talking about why it took the WHO two years to say COVID is airborne, causing unnecessary loss of life, which is one very instance of the "shutting down of dissenting viewpoints". Simply put, if unfiltered air can get between your plastic face shield and your skin, you are at risk of breathing aerosols containing the virus. To illustrate, if smoke can get around your face shield, you are at risk due to airborne transmission.
"Airborne transmission is defined as the spread of an infectious agent caused by the dissemination of droplet nuclei (aerosols) that remain infectious when suspended in air over long distances and time.”academic.oup.com/cid/advanc...
"The distinction between droplet and airborne transmission has enormous consequences. To combat droplets, a leading precaution is to wash hands frequently with soap and water. To fight infectious aerosols, the air itself is the enemy. In hospitals, that means expensive isolation wards and N95 masks for all medical staff."
wired.com/story/the-teeny-t...
Neil
Thank you for your timely, and, as always, annotated reply. However, your argument, "if unfiltered air can get between your plastic face shield and your skin, you are at risk of breathing aerosols containing the virus," is somewhat disengenuous, since it's far more logical that one would be at substantially greater risk with a paper or cloth mask—and even with an N95 mask—under any set of circumstances. Perhaps you would be good enough to provide an example of where one would be at greater risk having a face shield, such as I use, than having a paper or cloth mask.
As for WHO taking two years to come out with the truth about Covid-19 being airborne, you might wish to look at the outsized role that China played, and continues to play, in this matter.
I agree that you are at greater risk from wearing a cloth or paper or more correctly surgical or procedure mask than wearing a fitted respirator (N95/FFP2). But I can't see how a plastic face shield, which I presume has gaps between it and your skin, can provide you with better protection than a respirator that you fit to your face, so that most of the air you breath is filtered. That's the point that SofiaDeo made.
As I said above, now with my emphasis, "We now know that cloth masks are not very effective at filtering out the coronavirus and that wearing a well fitted N95/FFP2 mask provides superior protection.
I couldn't find reputable evidence that plastic face shields provide superior protection to a well fitted N95/FFP2 mask. Perhaps you could share it?"
Again, can provide us with some evidence about the effectiveness of the face shield on which you rely for protection? Lots of us don't like masks and I've tried searches for fitted face shields and can't find any. All I see are clear plastic shields with varying degrees of gaps around the sides and bottom, sometimes with the person in the example also wearing a mask. If the virus can stay floating in the air for many minutes, even hours, in a fine aerosol, which is now readily accepted, you are going to be breathing in some of that unfiltered air with all the face shield images that I saw.
Neil
Thank you Neil, I feel happier now about my mask situation. Our masks are described as FFP3 with little respiratory filters. We bought them from our local DIY store after being recommended. They do fit closely and have two elastic bands which go over the back of the head, rather than hooked around the ears. We have so far only worn them on flights and in airports, we tend to wear cloth masks in shops etc. However, yesterday I cleaned my greenhouse and removed plants etc which had succumbed to frost damage. I was aware when I moved a tray of seed pods which had gone mouldy that I should have had my mask on (I wear one when dealing with bags of compost etc). The mould dust flew up and although I jumped back, I think I may have inhaled some. This morning, my usual clear mucus reflux was thicker and slightly coloured. It seems better now but I will monitor it and lesson learnt …. a mask always in the greenhouse.
Unless it is a positive pressure airflow type face shield, air from the room gets in as you inhale and exhale. It's simple physics. As you breathe in, you are pulling potentially contaminated air from the room onto your face. If there is no filter, it's room air you are breathing. You describe a shield that has you breathing in unfiltered room air. You aren't describing a system where you face is completed enclosed, and any air you are breathing goes theough a filter of some sort before you inhale it.
No one is going to do a study of face shields versus masks, since they are designed to do different things. Face shields prevent a splash or spray, like if someone coughed or sneezed in your direction. Or if bits of wood went flying as something is worked, or paint/varnish/other chemicals being used can unexpectedly splash up onto the face. Masks were designed for really small particulates, and were used and recommended in painting and woodworking industries in addition to face shields, well before Covid hit the scene. The shields protected the skin and eyes from direct contact, the mask and goggles protect from fine particles getting into eyes and lungs. It wasn't "one or another". Depending on your goal, you used a mask, eye protection, a face shield, or all 3.
Note that this one below, like many full face shields, is designed to allow a respirator, and it's also recommended to wear eye protection in addition to a respirator. People who work with paint and wood particles, whose industries have been around well before Covid & small virus particles were a concern, use respirators and eye protection to stop airborne particulates and vapors from getting under their face shields. Firefighters don't wear simple face shields in all siuations, they wear completely enclosed systems when they need to prevent breathing room air. If all it took to keep air particulates out of our lungs was a simple face shield, firefighters would not use such enclosed, filtered, integrated sealed off face shield/helmet systems when going into high smoke environments. But a simple face shield allows smoke in the air to be breathed in. Similarly, a simple face shield would also allow a certain amount of air pathogens to be inhaled.
amazon.com/gp/product/B001V...
I would guess that a face shield will limit anything blowing around in the room, if someone coughs or sneezes, from landing directly on your face and getting into you nose and eyes. But small particles, suspended in air, can and do make it under the face shield as you breathe and there *is no filter* to remove any particle that happens to be suspended in the air. The shield may attract & retain larger droplets, and sprays from coughing or sneezing, but *there is no filter*. If you are in a room of contaminated air, a plain face shield won't work 100%. Firefighters don't wear simple face shields, they wear full face positive pressure filtered systems. Medical personnel use face shields to protect from large droplets of spit, blood, etc.
So a face shield is not the same as a mask. It is better than no mask, since it does somewhat limit room air from smacking you directly in the face. It's akin to the recommendation to sit with your back to airflow in a restaurant. Those facing into the airflow, get infected more readily than those with their back to the airflow, if the airflow contains Covid or influenza or the common cold virus. Someone wearing a face shield with their back to the airflow, would have a lesser risk since they are using 2 methods to restrict airflow from hitting them directly in the face. But neither methods are a *filter*, which is considered the "gold standard" for infection protection. As well as various other airborne particulate protection, like wood particles in a lathe shop or smoke protection for firefighters. Or paint and varnish fumes. They are all particles of some sort, and a filter of some sort or actual physical barrier (like a goggle) that does not allow free exchange of potentially contaminated room air. So while I think wearing a face shield gives a bit more protection than going bare faced, it's simply not the same as wearing a mask. And no one will do a study, because it's comparing apples to oranges: non filtered air versus filtered air. I agree it would be a nice piece of data to see how simple face shields compared to an N95, with and without eye protection, but I am unaware of anyone funding studies like this. Since if one needed to protect from aerosolized particles, one simply dons a mask; if one is concerned about splashes and sprays and people spitting on them deliberately, they wear a face shield.
So this is nothing that someone like Fauci is saying, or that someone from Twitter or Facebook is promoting. This has been known in other industries besides infection control for decades. One of the basic concepts of MSDS sheets for various manufactured chemicals, is to specify when a mask, goggle, face shield, skin protection, etc. needs to be used by workers to prevent inadvertent exposure. And it's one reason why the "valved" N95 type masks were developed: folk needed to filter the air they were breathing in, but had no restriction on the air they were breathing out. The valved masks restricted what came in while allowing easier exhalation, and consequently are easier to wear for long periods of time. But make no mistake, manufacturing processes that generate aerosols do *not* allow their staff to wear simple face shields, they wear mask/goggle combos or an integrated, positive pressure type face shield containing some sort of respirator. If you tried to sell researchers working on Ebola or other deadly viruses, on switching to a simple face shield instead of their respirators and eye protection, they would probably walk off the job site.
Here's an article on the science/physics behind a sneeze at a face shield. Non sneeze would simply be contaminated air being inhaled around the edges of the shield.
iflscience.com/face-shields...
Thank you for the extensive response. I took a photo of the shield I have, but can't seem to find it to upload. It's called Premium Face Shield, Maxview, manufactured by Jackson Safety Brand. Got it on Amazon for $31 a while back. It's not meant for positive air pressure, but it's seriously protective. You and AussieNeil (and others) might want to consider checking it out.
Sorry Pogee, but it's possible to see large gaps between the mask and the wearer's face around both the 30 and 50 second mark of the accompanying video. jacksonsafety.com/product-p...
This mask is not an effective barrier against the coronavirus for the reasons SofiaDeo has clearly explained. I would not recommend this mask as a protective measure against any airborne disease.
Neil
You pays yer money, you takes yer choice. My choice is my face shield. I wish you all the best in all your endeavors, now and forever.
I suggest looking into salt masks. I found the recipe in an online article from a scientist that was studying using it when covid just started. I also searched NCBI and 'salt mask' and it seemed to have good use results. I make my own out of the paper mask for use in less crowded venues like stores or friends and have N95 for use when I'm in an airport or airplane.
Here's the recipe MASK SPRAY, for night before and let dry:
4 oz. of hot water
2 tablespoons of salt
1/5 tsp liquid dish soap
Indeed the idea of including just plain salt in the mask makes sense if contact with the sodium chloride will destroy the virus and it's good to see some innovative research along those lines, which might be used to reduce the viral load exposure: duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=NCBI...
I think that approaches into better fitting face masks (and there were also tips on how to do that around back then) would probably prove more important. It's no good putting insect screens on the house windows while leaving the doors open, to use an analogy. Thankfully we now have easy access to much better fitting respirators - N95/FFP2 masks, which I'm encouraged to see that you are using in riskier situations.
Neil
Yes whatever helps I feel I must do. And still I see people wear masks and pull it away from their face to cough or sneeze next to me and I get alarmed and think about all my potential points of entry and how well my mask is fitted, then think about unmasked eyes and then quickly distance. I also wear gloves everywhere and have my sanitizer with me and won't touch anything without that layer of protection. I'm also one to look at people's masks and look for gaps😷
I was on vacation in Greece last summer very few masks indoors or outdoors, some on the plane and airport, only saw one individual wearing a mask on the beach, my late dear wife who passed away in December 2020 was in the hematology ward for over 3 months and they had Covid outbreaks numerous times, but she was never given a mask, it's my view that masks are a waste of time, just like the vaccines, I am high risk but choose not to wear a mask, I have had covid twice, the first time was the worst with the Delta variant, spent 7 days in the hospital, the second was simply like a common cold, I prefer to boost my immune system and good diet and exercise, my input is not advice just my observation and opinion.
I would love to boost my immune system but sadly nothing gets past my medication for CLL.
May I ask you how you "boost" your immune system?
Try to minimize stress.
Eat a diet high in fruits and vegetables (organic)
Exercise regularly
Fast moderately (24 hours)
Maintain a healthy weight
If you drink alcohol, drink only in moderation if at all.
Get adequate sleep, sleep health is vital for the immune system
For Leukaemia ask your consultant about IVIG treatment, this gives you high-quality antibodies protein from blood fractions to help prevent infections.
Vitamin D3 daily will play an important part in reducing infection symptoms and plays an important part in boosting your immune system. Research shows that vitamin D plays an important role in immune function, and a deficiency in it is shown to increase your susceptibility to infection.
Vitamin C
There appears to be a connection between nutrition and immunity in the elderly. A form of malnutrition that is surprisingly common even in affluent countries is known as "micronutrient malnutrition." Micronutrient malnutrition, in which a person is deficient in some essential vitamins and trace minerals that are obtained from or supplemented by diet, can happen in the elderly.
As we age, our immune response capability becomes reduced, which in turn contributes to more infections and more cancer.
Reduce dairy and meat, and replace them with plant-based protein.
Remove sugar from your diet it is as toxic as alcohol.
All the above are common sense and can be researched online and are supported by medical practitioners and dieticians.
I learned from my wife's CLL that the immune system is so complicated and multi-layered that even the top scientist still don't know how it all works, as you age you become naturally weaker with your immune system, so it is vital especially if you are over 60 to pay attention to all of the above. I have CKD (Chronic Kidney disease) I am what is called a Renal specialty patient, I was originally diagnosed with borderline stage 4 Kidney disease, and stage 5 is Dialysis, after 4 years of the above and other natural treatments for kidney disease (Bicarbonate of Soda) I have reversed my Kidney Disease from stage 4 to stage 3A, I no longer suffer from Insomnia a by-product of Kidney disease, I used to attend the Renal Unit every three months, I now attend once a year.
Leukemia is a very complicated cancer of the immune system so it is far more difficult to boost the immune system of patients with this cancer, but everyone is different and their cancer at different strengths and progress, some are on wait-and-watch for years, and years others are not so fortunate.
Hope the above is of help, please remember I am not giving advice, just documenting what I found beneficial for my wife and now myself.
Thank you very much for this information; I shall keep it where I can see it to refresh my memory - and resolve!
your welcome, but please do your own research also, knowledge is always advancing, but it is never definitive with imperfect humans, no matter who they are, best of luck going forward.
Yes,please tell how you boost your immune system. I would happily try anything and just hope it would help.
The anti mask comments on here are hilarious. First a mask has nothing to do with freedom? A N95 is a medical grade barrier designed to prevent the spread of infection. Nothing more. Infections of all types among CLL patients were down during mandatory masking. I prefer quality of life, for me quality of life means not getting colds, flu and sinus infections. Quality of life also means enjoying activities I once did without concern of infections. Wearing a mask in crowds is freedom for me. It’s freedom to not worry about being laid up in the hospital with pneumonia.
Absolutely agree with all your comments. I detest wearing my mask BUT I fear much more the possible outcome if with my challenged immune system, I was to contract Covid19 or worse. Sadly our hospitals are hotbeds of infection. I keep clear of hospitals as much as I possibly can. My husband and I have just started travelling again and we are trying to get back to some of our social activities. I run a family history group for our U3A but keep a distance from members and wear my mask when I need to be closer.
Were you born with a mask? I am not anti-mask at all I have worn a mask during the peak of the Pandemic, but it still didn't stop me from catching Covid Delta strain, how did I survive as an OAP who was vulnerable with CKD? because I made sure my immune system was as strong as I could make it as an old boot, just 7 days in the hospital with no ventilator needed .
I have had no vaccine either, that's my choice and my right. If you want to wear a mask that's your right and fine by me, personally I don't rate them.
No one said you had to wear a mask. Let me get this right, your experience and immune response is how everyone else’s should be and if it’s not they’re weak and doing something wrong? What a load of nonsense. If you’re so tough you should’ve skipped the hospital.
You weren't born wearing band aids either, do you just let any cuts bleed freely and get dirt in them? And take your chances with infection? Do you refuse sutures for a severe cut? Would you not use a cast or a crutch with a broken limb? Why did you even bother to go to the hospital when you got Covid? Puh-leeze.
I think the young men who are now getting polio because their parents were convinced "vaccines are unhealthy" would disagree with you. Poorer nations are clamoring for anything that helps mitigate disease in large numbers of the population.
There are a number of crowded, polluted urban areas of the world where mask wearing, to prevent lung problems, is normalized.
Masking is not 100% guaranteed to prevent infection. If you want that, you need the HazMat type protection that infectious disease researchers and firemen running into burning buildings potentially full of toxic gases, wear.
I wonder if you would have gotten a high enough viral load to test positive, let alone need to be hospitalized, had you been vaccinated.....once the vaccines came out, and people were getting vaccinated, the hospitalized folk predominately were ones *not* vaccinated, especially those in ICU or needed a ventilator.
Perfect reply. Thanks. Nice to read
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