4th Vaccine Shot

[wizzard166]

We've all seen a lot written on our site about Covid Vaccines, so some might feel it is not important for me to make this post; however, I feel that all input is useful for those who want to continue with vaccines.

After my first two shots with Moderna I had not experienced more than a little soreness in the shot area. Then I had a blood test for antibody production, and the result was no antibodies. After a while I had a third shot, and switched to Pfizer, and again no real side effects and blood test with no antibody production.

I had pretty much given up hope of the vaccines working for me, but I figured there is no harm to try a fourth shot. What a difference. This time I went from soreness at the injection site on day two in the morning, to weakness and aches and pains like a flu in the evening. On the Morning of Day three I felt like I couldnt get out of bed, was pushed by my wife to take a shower and get up to eat something. I did what she said, but then couldnt really eat. Then I had to get back in bed, and she took my temp which was 101.5. She gave me two advil and I slept for four hours. When I woke up the pillow case and bed sheets were soaked, but I started to feel better. I went through the day almost like normal, except I had to sit and close my eyes a bit. Then into the evening my temp climbed to 103.5 and the weakness and pains were back again. Took two tylenols which broke the fever a bit, and went to sleep for the night. This Morning my temp was normal and I felt back to normal. My arm is still red all around the injection site, but otherwise I'm fine.

I've read online from medical sources that my experience is an indication that my body is trying to fight, and likely it is building my immune response to the Covid virus. If this is true, thank God.

My purpose of this post is to help others who wonder if they should get the fourth shot. I think this time it is going to help me, and the side effects are unpleasant but not unbearable. Even us immunocompromised CLL patients can get to having protection with more shots, when we failed to do so on shots 1,2, and 3. I have no proof yet that it produced or is producing antibodies, but based on my reaction to the shot I bet that will be the case.

Carl

[Pin57]

Wizzard - There has been studies that show for some folks like you that were unable to score antibodies on first shot or after a few shots then suddenly do on that next shot.

IMO flu like post-shot symptoms are a good sign … I’ve had em with my shots and know others have too and then suddenly presto …. antibodies happen. Maybe not a scientific fortune telling it is (flu like symptoms) but hey it’s a positive opinion for what that’s worth.

Hoping you score well with Abs!

[wizzard166 in reply to Pin57]

Thanks Pin

I have additional input for the rest of us about antibodies.

I've had two Monoclonal Antibody Infusions; one in December after exposure but with no symptoms, and the second in February of this year when I got sick and tested positive.

When I saw my CLL Specialist on March 29 I noticed in the blood tests done she included the antibody test. It actually showed antibodies with a score of 8,500. She said it was likely from the Monoclonal Antibody Infusions, and impressive that they remained in my bloodstream that long. Maybe those infusions finally triggered my immune system to produce some antibodies, and maybe that is why shot number 4 seems to now be working on my immune system again. We'll see.

It is obvious that Covid isn't going anywhere; heck, look at China where they are now considering a total shut down again. Us CLL people need to use every weapon available, from vaccines to infusions to the pill. It's hard to get the pill in South Florida, where I just got the 4th shot. I asked the pharmacist at Publix, and he said they had none and it was in scarce supply. We need to be aware of every option we can have, when confronted with this virus.

Carl

[PaulaS Volunteer]

Hi Carl, I'm sorry you had such a bad reaction to your 4th vaccination. Glad you're feeling OK now.

After my 3rd shot, blood test showed a very small amount of antibodies. After my 4th shot, it had gone up tenfold! Still wasn't as much as a "normal" person but better than nothing. I hope you get a similar result.

I didn't get any after effects from that 4th shot, not even a sore arm. Yet my antibody response was good. Just saying that to encourage those people who don't get side effects after shots. It doesn't mean your body isn't working behind the scenes.

Like you, I'd encourage people to go for 4th vaccinations. I'll go for a 5th when I'm eligible.

Paula

[wizzard166 in reply to PaulaS]

There was a post on our site within the last day or so about someone from the UK getting a 5th shot. Apparently in UK the Cancer Society convinced the government that those with cancer and/or are immune compromised need shots more frequently. They say we lose the antibodies we gained from the shots more quickly and were even suggesting a shot every three months. Another member replied with a link to the article from the Cancer Society.

This is a link to the article from the University Of Nebraska Medical Center, and it mentions how the fever is a good thing; since, it shows your body is fighting the invader it thinks has entered your body. They feel these side effects, including chills and weakness, aches, and pains, mean you are likely producing antibodies. nebraskamed.com/COVID/what-...

[Livingwith67 in reply to PaulaS]

I’m interested to know how you get an antibodies test? Is this done privately in UK or through a nhs GP

[PaulaS Volunteer in reply to Livingwith67]

I asked my GP but he said he couldn't order it for me on the NHS. He suggested getting it done privately, with the usual caveat that whatever the result, we can't really know how much the different levels of antibodies will protect us from Covid. I was aware of that, but was still curious to know, so I got it done privately.

I used the following place, as have several people on this site. It's done by post, and is based at an NHS lab in Exeter. monitormyhealth.org.uk/

That lab does lots of different tests but the specific one I ordered can be found from this link. It cost £39. monitormyhealth.org.uk/covi...

There's a more expensive test (£60) that also tests for previous Covid infections. monitormyhealth.org.uk/#vie...

There are probably other labs that also do these tests and some may be cheaper, but this one worked for me.

Paula

[Livingwith67 in reply to PaulaS]

Thank you! I did the one for previous covid infections back in the earlier days of the pandemic, I’d forgotten about that. Now much more interested in the antibodies, so thank you for this information.

[wizzard166 in reply to Livingwith67]

I'm in the US. So here you get a doctor's order for the blood test, and go to a laboratory to get it done

[The-Man-with-a-Plan]

Carl/Wizard166:

Thanks for detailing your journey with your 4th COVID-19 jab. Very glad to hear you are doing well.

What you experienced after your 4th shot is what I experienced after my 2nd and especially my 3rd shot. All three were Moderna. After my 3rd shot, I was 'out of sorts' and 'down for the count' for 7 days.

However, unlike so many others who post vaccine/antibody stories regularly on this site, I'm not obsessed antibody levels post vaccination. Though it's a helpful surrogate marker affirming protection from the virus, it's not the end all/be all. Even with antibodies, you can still get sick. PENN published in the journal Immunity an interesting study last August addressing T-cell mediated immune response to mRNA vaccines: pennmedicine.org/news/news-... . In my non-professional opinion, this is much more important than antibodies long term.

I have not and will not get my 4th shot until late June or July. (My wife and I are going on an Alaskan cruise in August. I'd rather be safe than sorry.)

MwaP

[wizzard166 in reply to The-Man-with-a-Plan]

Hey Man

I took a look at the article from Penn, and while encouraging it needs a little addition to it for us CLL patients. One of the effects CLL has on our bodies is to damage the T Cells. This is why Car T Therapy has failed for the most part with CLL patients. Maybe some of us still have some functional T Cells working in our bodies, and thus this effect on T Cell response to the Vaccines gives us more hope. I don't know; however, upon learning why Car T hasn't fared well with most CLL Patients I'm not too optimistic. Thats why any hope that we produce antibodies from the Vaccines is a big deal to me.

[chirish]

Same with me, first two Phizers, nothing but a sore arm but after the 3rd, the next day I was down for the count, like a flu bomb went off. Fortunately the day after that, I was back to normal, like, didnt I just feel like crap yesterday. Same thing with my fourth, as well. I told my Doc and she was like, 'great its working then'. I'll get my fifth in the middle of summer so maybe my fever chills wont be so bad that night, ha..

[wizzard166 in reply to chirish]

do you know if the antibody production went up after the shots with the strong reaction?

[chirish in reply to wizzard166]

No I do not but am pretty sure it's doin what it's supposed to do.

[Edalv]

I had similar reactions after my 2nd and 3rd shots. I definitely felt my body was having a very strong reaction, my body temperature reached 103 degrees. Fortunately they lasted about 36 hours and then stated feeling better. All my shots were using the Pfizer vaccine.

[wizzard166 in reply to Edalv]

do you know if the antibody production went up after the shots with the strong reaction?

[janvog]

I had 3 Pfizer and one Moderna. Sore arm, nothing else. I'll get the 5th (2nd booster ) next month. My hematologist approves.

[wizzard166 in reply to janvog]

I had two Moderna first with no reaction and no antibodies; other than, a sore arm. A doctor suggested try Pfizer for the third, and again no reaction other than some soreness and no antibodies. I think it was a mistake to switch to Pfizer, because Moderna has proven to be stronger by lasting much longer. So on the fourth on my own i went back to Moderna and Wham. I'm still with a big red rash top and bottom of arm, and of course you read about my 103 fever etc. Maybe stay with Moderna.

Carl

[janvog in reply to wizzard166]

Interesting ! I generally get no hard reaction after any vaccination. (Music therapy for this afternoon: VILLA MUSIC VALS )

[wizzard166 in reply to janvog]

As I didn't until my 4th. Now as we reach seven days after the shot, the upper arm still has a large red itchy rash. The other symptoms, which were flu like are gone.

[louise66]

I had my 5th booster on Monday - moderna. I'd previously had 4 Pfizer.I sent yesterday feeling dreadful, chills, slight temp, nauseous, I was shaking all day. My only thought was maybe it was actually working and I will create a response.

Louise