I Got A Third Shot: Any of you who have read my... - CLL Support

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I Got A Third Shot

wizzard166 profile image

Any of you who have read my prior posts in the last week on this subject know how I feel about this issue. We are all wondering if they will approve the third shot, when the fact is (as I found out) you can simply go and get it.

So I went online and searched for an open time at a place where it is available, chose my date and time, and got the shot yesterday morning. My first two shots were Moderna, and as I've reported the Quest test showed None. As I also found out from an Immunologist I saw about five days ago, the Quest test is deficient compared to Labcorp. This is because Quest is All or None, whereas Labcorp actually gives a measurement. So maybe my None with Quest would have shone a few antibodies with Labcorp. In any case the test result for me was bad.

My new Immunologist suggested I not re do Moderna and instead try Pfizer, so that is what I did. Its now close to 24 hours, and the only result is some soreness at the shot site. In four weeks I have an order to go and get the test for antibodies again, and we'll see where that goes.

I was pleased that the questions I had to answer, before the web site set my appointment, did not ask me if I had the vaccine already. So I didnt have to lie. When I went for the shot, the Pharmacist didnt ask me either if I had already had a shot. So why not go out there and get another shot too; it can't hurt you and it might help you.

Carl

74 Replies

I agree with you. It would be different if I was denying a shot for someone who has not had any vaccinations. But that's just not the case. We have plenty of vaccine, but the hard core holdouts just won't show up. So if they don't want it, I'll take it. Why let a vaccine with a short shelf life go to waste?

Now whether or not it has any effect on our immune compromised systems is a big question. It may give us little to no benefit. But the real question to ask is, will it harm us??? And so far, no one has indicated any potential for harm. So it appears that the risk is low, but the potential reward may be high.

Keeping my fingers crossed for a strong antibody response! 🤞

Hi Carl

Can you expand a bit more on what the immunologist told you at your appointment? Downside to getting a booster? Why not J&J instead of Pfizer since both Pfizer and Moderna use the same technology so wouldn’t it make sense to try a different approach? My CLL team was non committal when I asked them this week about a booster and I understand their position since they aren’t experts in this field and there is very limited clinical trial data available to them to make informed recommendations. Nonetheless, I think I’m going to do exactly what you did and seek out a third shot.

Thank you,

Mark

wizzard166 profile image
wizzard166 in reply to HopeME

Mark

In my one and only visit with her, which was last week, she said that getting a third shot gave me a chance to develop antibodies that were not developed on the first two shots. She said that the data that has been collected so far, is indicating a modicum of success with us immunocompromised. In fact Israel has led the way in this respect, and their results with the third shot are definitely promising.

She felt that I should not use Moderna again, but that Pfizer would be a good idea. She said that J and J has had too many side effects, to suggest that I try that one. My thinking is that it isnt the type of vaccine, meaning the RNA type, that lead to failure to develop antibodies; instead, it is our already very weakened immune systems. I didnt ask her why not try Moderna again, but I was fine with giving Pfizer a chance. So far the only thing I've felt since the shot is soreness in the arm used, but I also did have yesterday what appeared to be a new cold developing. I got extremely tired and weak, and i could feel the lymph nodes in my neck getting larger. I don't know if this was the vaccine, or I was actually fighting a cold that was trying to take hold in me. This morning however I woke up with no cold symptoms at all, so maybe it was the vaccine.

Both my new Immunologist and my local CLL Specialist (who referred me to her) indicated that the potential rewards outweighed any possible side effects. There was no hesitancy in the way they said this, and it makes sense to my scientific type mind, so I went and did it. I understand that I might end up paying for the vaccine, because the first two might have gone through my Medicare, but I don't care. If my life is saved from Covid because I got proactive and incurred an expense of what every it is (maybe $100) I don't care about the expense.

As far as using vaccine that others might have had available to them, with the huge numbers of people in the USA who have refused the shot there is no concern. From what I hear only about fifty percent of those eligible have taken the shots, which is a very sad and mentally disturbing thing, so us immunocompromised getting another shot is not a waste of resources.

Carl

HopeME profile image
HopeME in reply to wizzard166

Hi Carl

Thanks for the information. It is helpful. I had the two Pfizer vaccines back in January and February. Maybe Moderna is next for me? I plan to hold out until after Labor Day as I’ll be able to stay in my bubble until then.

Thanks again,

Mark

wizzard166 profile image
wizzard166 in reply to HopeME

Mark

You might want to be aware of the latest study out of Israel about Pfizer. It shows a drop from 95% Effectiveness to 38% Effectiveness after only six months. It is the reason they started recommending third shots.

Car

You should be so lucky.. in oz we don’t have enough vaccines to go round twice let alone 3 times. We were complacent and didn’t order enough for our needs. Think we have plenty of AZ but many not keen to have it !!! And by the way it’s looking vaccinating won’t be enough for us folk. Many are very sick and have had 2 vacs. We have a long way to go before I will feel safe after we open our borders and let the virus haphazardly run amongst us

Greetings all

From Sheila in oz

morepork profile image
morepork in reply to Elliot43

Thinking about you and all my relatives over there on the other side of the Tasman Sea at present, with my fingers crossed - especially those in NSW and Victoria.

Elliot43 profile image
Elliot43 in reply to morepork

Thank you morepork. Yes Nsw & Victoria got family in both. Heard that lots more vaccines on way. Only hope that some of the stubborn buggers will get vaccinated asap.

wizzard166 profile image
wizzard166 in reply to Elliot43

Sheila is Oz a common nickname for Australia? Not being cute, just never heard that one in my 74 years and was curious.

Elliot43 profile image
Elliot43 in reply to wizzard166

It’s a shortened nickname I like to use. As Australia is such a pain to write. Most people seem to know what it means. We do use it from time to time as a quick reference to Oz. CLLerinOz uses it as a non de plume here 😆

I had the Pfeiffer vaccine but prior to getting vaccinated I had Covid. My understanding is if you’ve had Covid and the vaccine I should be good. I’ve been hearing about a. Booster shot along with the flu shot but it’s just talk at this time. If the FDA approves the 3rd shot I’ll get it.

I hope this 3 rd shot provides you with protection.

John

MonD profile image
MonD in reply to Ironj

Hi John. I had Covid and two Pfizer shots and unfortunately no antibodies of any kind. On Calquence so maybe that is problem. Hope your response was better!

Ironj profile image
Ironj in reply to MonD

Hello MonD

I hope I have some protection, I haven’t had the antibody test. I keep meaning to ask my Dr but forget most things on my mind once I’m at my appointment. I do have a patient portal,I think I’ll go on there now and ask for one.

I see a lot of member on this site have had the vaccine without the antibodies. I hope maybe a Booster shot of a different or updated vaccine becomes available for immune compromised people like us.

As a side note last week I received my shingle X vaccine and pneumonia vaccine, I’m hoping they have a strong defense.

John

Good luck on your 3rd shot, hoping to hear great news about its’ results!

My onco told me to get both the shots of covishield , which i did.

CarlI hope you get a good result and the third time is a charm. I got the pfizer back in late January & second in February. I did go to Labcorp and was very fortunate to get a very good result with a high level of antibodies. I went for my cll 6 mth follow up and I believe he uses the quest Covid test which he gives to everyone and it shows I still have antibodies but doesn’t tell you how much and if it was from the vaccine Or virus (I’m assuming vaccine) but it was nice to know I still have them. I like many have concerns how long they will hold up and will definitely get a third shot. I was thinking either way by the end Of the year I’m just going to get it. I was wondering if the shots Now have any of the new Variants in them or if that is only in the trials They are doing with the booster? I am hoping for that additional protection with so many cases now reported with the new strain.

wizzard166 profile image
wizzard166 in reply to Superdad3

The vaccine we are getting today are the same ones as from the beginning; so, it doesnt have anything to specifically react to the Delta Varient. Still I've read that data coming in is showing that the Moderna and Pfizer both are helping with the Delta Varient. They are not preventing a minor amount of illness, but they are preventing hospitalization and death.

Carl

Astro617 profile image
Astro617 in reply to wizzard166

Recent information this week is showing Moderna having a slightly better protection against delta. I also read in a CLL Society summary of the LLS study that the Moderna shot showed a "slight but statistically higher antibody response." I live in a hotspot and lots of vaccinated folks are testing positive for COVID. It sure would be great if the pharmaceutical companies could get out ahead of the variants coming our way.

I got a third Moderna shot and am hoping for some antibodies. I had nothing but a sore arm with the first two, but some mild symptoms with the third, so maybe it is doing something.

wizzard166 profile image
wizzard166 in reply to BallyB

As I wrote in an earlier reply today in this string, I had cold and flu symptoms yesterday (two days into the shot). I woke up today without those symptoms that I had yesterday, so maybe I'm finally reacting and building some antibodies.

Carl

I got the J&J after two doses of Pfizer. My antibody result went from .48 to 1.1. While that is positive, it doesn't suggest much protection. I did have a much stronger reaction to the J&J vaccine-- two days of fever, terrible aches, and general malaise. Goodluck with the results from your third shot!

As Maryland Governor Hogan said “Get the damn shot.”

wizzard166 profile image
wizzard166 in reply to wmay13241

And as Alabama's Governor followed with the same advice a few days ago.

Thank you for your generosity. Hopefully, you're taking other steps to protect yourself from this dreaded virus. For myself, the results shown on the vaccines have convinced me that the technology works. We live in fortunate times with so many brilliant folks creating novel and highly effective vaccines.

Iris I see you are in the US, so the comment about needing doctors orders threw me a bit. I never needed a doctors orders for my first two Moderna, and I didnt need a doctors order for my now first Pfizer. Getting the shots has simply been a matter of going online and scheduling in somewhere.

While it is true that the CDC might soon come out with a recommendation of a third shot for the immunocompromised, my attitude is why wait and maybe die because I didnt get proactive. Anyone can simply schedule into CVS and dozens of other places and get the shots with no questions asked.

As far as those who continue to refuse the shots; shame on them. It is obvious in which States in the US the number of hospitalizations and deaths are rising, and equally as obvious that those are the States that people have refused the Vaccine. Can any of you imagine having refused the Polio Vaccine, Diptheria Vaccine, Tetanus Vaccines etc when offered in our past. By what convoluted thought process are these people now refusing the COVID Vaccine? Interesting enough I noticed that the rank and file of Governors in States that have refused to follow common sense are now changing their tune. I saw that the Governor of Alabama the other day went public and asked her citizens to just take the damn shot.

Aside from common sense relating to protecting your own life, how about human decency and protecting the lives of your neighbors and family. Many of your Neighbors and family have immunocompromised systems, and if you took the damn shot you could protect them from you.

Carl

I tested at Quest for spike antibody and I got a number. healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

I think the Quest test, like others, is semi-quantitative, and the maximum is 20.

Carl, good luck with your immune response. I think your approach of getting a different vaccine for your booster shot makes a lot of sense. Please keep us informed once you get your test results . I had 2 shorts of Pfizer in February and got an immune response when I got tested in May. So I don’t plan to get a booster shot until there is more information available. But if it’s recommended by the CDC, FDA and my oncologist, I would consider getting a booster year after my second shot. For the time being I don’t plan to rush it, also I went back to wearing a mask indoors and to be more vigilant when I am around other people. We can’t be too careful…

I have asked my oncologist and my primary about the third shot and neither one recommended it yet. I guess they are waiting for the CDC. I have a zoom meeting with the oncologist in the beginning of August and will ask again. I do want it but will wait for their approval. I never stopped masking indoors and pretty much stay to myself. I don’t understand why people are so against it and yet children can’t go to school without their other shots. If feels un-American not to protect ourselves and our communities

I'm not sure why an Oncologist wouldnt recommend it; unless, you are very luck and had a good antibody test result with the initial shots

My antibody result was 0 with Quest, so in my case it would be absurd not to try again. The Immunologist gave me an order for the blood antibody test 4 weeks after the first Pfizer dose, so i guess I'll take it around August 23 at Labcorp.

Carl

Edalv profile image
Edalv in reply to wizzard166

I think each case is unique, the immune system is a very complex system, I don’t feel qualified to make a decision on my own. That’s why I want to wait for additional guidance, I am confident the 2 dosage will provide me with sufficient protection, however as I said previously, I plan to continue masking indoors. I feel it’s not time to leave my guards down until more people are fully vaccinated.

wizzard166 profile image
wizzard166 in reply to Edalv

Edalv

My input on you having two Pfizer shots and having had antibodies produced, is that you are in a much better position than I am with no antibodies produced. So I'll try anything to finally get some antibodies.

You should also consider the latest research that is showing that Pfizer seems to be deficient compared to Moderna, with respect to its lasting effects. There is a new study out of Israel on Pfizer, and it is showing a drop from 95% Effectiveness to 38% Effectiveness after six months. That is frankly pretty depressing, and I would think anyone who started with Pfizer might be considering a third shot. In fact the CDC hearing last week on the possibility of recommending a Booster made specific reference to Pfizer as a reason t consider it. That and the immunocompromised.

Carl

Edalv profile image
Edalv in reply to wizzard166

Don’t get me wrong, I am open to a booster shot, but I need to see additional research. I think we will have a much clearer picture in the next 6 months. In the meantime, I don’t plan to rush it…

newyork8 profile image
newyork8 in reply to Edalv

Were you on treatment when you got vaccine?

Edalv profile image
Edalv in reply to newyork8

No, I was not on treatment…

The problem with the antibody tests is they don’t know how much antibodies protect against the virus, they are just random numbers no?

Great question. I’ve had several discussions with the LLS Study doctors about scoring and what it means. Never a mention of what scores provide “what level of protection” as they don’t know yet from the data. But they gave a big hint with this reply per their first antibodies tests report…

“Healthy individuals typically score well above 100.”

As a layperson on that comment, it implies to me that scores well above 100 is the place to shoot for antibodies score-wise. So IMO, scores do matter in comparing them to healthy people and vaccines awesome-ness is protecting millions of healthy people really well, everyday.

To the best of my knowledge no one knows how high an antibody level from the vaccine is necessary to work. In particular the results for our group of immunocompromised is likely to be that we need a much higher level. Still Ill take anything

Have to put in my 2 cents here…I think we each have to do our own research (so much out there now on this subject) and do what we feel we should do for our own health. I decided to get a 3rd Moderna shot after researching for weeks with my own layman’s brain and came to the conclusion that it was right for me to hopefully add more antibodies to fight Delta which will become the #1 Variant in the US soon. The county where I live (Williamson) in Texas just went code Red (Highest level) last week and the neighboring county Travis (Austin) is in orange. I have watched the numbers rise as the maskless outdoor and indoor activities increased. With a Governor that has decided there will be no mask mandates, it is up to us all to do the right thing…I began my research. I am not a scientist nor can I spell or pronounce half of the words I read but here is some of my gut instinct. The longer it takes people to get on board with vaccines the stronger the variants will become, until the half that refuse actually weaken what the other half have already taken. Those with immune compromised systems are already at a disadvantage, so this delaying or refusal is only increasing our disadvantage. There is a drop in vaccine antibodies at 6 mos according to some articles and that amount varied with different research. My gut tells me that if my 64 % has dropped (I am at the 6 mo mark) and my husband and healthy daughter (93%) have dropped, then I needed to add another layer of protection if I could. I discussed it with them and they agreed and so I got my 3rd shot by signing up online at a Walgreens close by. There was not one other time spot taken on that day. While I was there 2 other people did a walk in. I did get side effects, sore arm, chills, nausea the first night, but all the symptoms moved faster than last time. In order to get the shot I filled in that I had not been vaccinated. As that was a lie, it was also a moral struggle for me and it was not done lightly. I still believe that my family (In spite of all our precautions) will eventually be exposed to Delta and that by time all the different agencies make their decisions it would be an even harder fight to win without the 3rd shot. We each must do what we feel is right for ourselves in order to give ourselves a fighting chance.

newyork8 profile image
newyork8 in reply to Txkate

Its ok to lie to maybe save a life. Also, if you even said you had vaccine I'm not sure they would deny you. Are you on treatment? I had 3 shots...no antibodies.

Txkate profile image
Txkate in reply to newyork8

Under MD Anderson W&W since 2010. They were my 2nd opinion which advised to not treat until numbers increased or B symptoms got worse. They have done a great job monitoring me. First Oncologist (had port put in) wanted to begin Chemo. My SLL diagnosis taught me that just because a person has a MD it still falls on us to question, seek and be our best advocate. That is not easy to do when you are in shock after being told you have cancer. I think the word causes shock, which the instinct is to just blindly trust another with greater knowledge, BUT as I learned, there are many people with different opinions and knowledge on how to do something, and all can be correct. So, the choice falls back to you, which means you have to gather information, and though you are acting a little blind, at least you feel a little better with your choice. Over my SLL decade I have still had Primary Care doctors tell me I should or will need treatment to which I always respond with my MD Anderson numbers. Then they agree. So, I went from blindly doing anything a doctor advised to asking questions and researching, then agreeing, or getting a second opinion. In the US political issues have had a huge impact since the beginning of Covid. We will never know the true numbers on lives loss related to some of the delays that have taken place. As this beast keeps growing, those in charge keep arguing, and it just keeps eating away. Stay safe!

newyork8 profile image
newyork8 in reply to Txkate

Agreed on self reliance. No one cares about us as much as we do! MDs get a bit too deference IMO. Even the best make mistakes. The politics on both sides is ridiculous. Having candidates say they wouldn't take a vaccine if it was developed under a different president is outageous.

wizzard166 profile image
wizzard166 in reply to newyork8

The best example of the incredible duplicity and stupidity of some politicians was this one: How about the leader of a country who initiates the Operation Warp Speed, which was to speed the development of a Vaccine to his Country, then when he loses his position refuses to ask the people he led to take his own Vaccine?

Seriously!!! Can you get a better example of the duplicity of some politicians. What I just wrote is stone cold fact and verifiable by the news media that championed this leader. So I ask this: How can you trust anything that person would say?

AussieNeil profile image
AussieNeilAdministrator in reply to wizzard166

We don't want this post to end up having replies turned off due to a political slinging match, but for the record, the media confirmed that this leader and his wife were both vaccinated this January, have had both shots, plus they both tested positive to COVID-19 in October last year:

foxnews.com/politics/trumps...

Neil

OK Neil I'll leave that out in the future. Never said that leader didnt get the shot, and did give credit for that leader having been responsible for the development of the Vaccine; in fact, likely responsible for bringing the Vaccine to the entire World. True the Vaccine was being developed in multiple countries, but Operation Warp Speed helped all entities including those outside its own Country to develop a Vaccine.

It was a great accomplishment and all of us should be thankful for Operation Warp Speed.

Carl

Txkate profile image
Txkate in reply to wizzard166

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then😝!

I think what he wrote was that there are plenty vaccines available due to many people not wanting them, I don’t think he needs yours in that case.

The unvaccinated people where I live are easy enough to find. They are clogging our hospitals at an alarming rate. At the risk of injecting facts into the discussion, well over 90% of the people who die from covid now passed on their vaccines.

You have a great day too.

wizzard166 profile image
wizzard166 in reply to cajunjeff

I recently read online about patients being brought into the hospital in critical condition, and begging for the Vaccine. The quote from the doctors in that hospital was how sadly they had to tell them it was too late.

At some point I have to believe that the people who are refusing the vaccine will understand they need to take it. It is so sad that those who refuse the vaccine are doing so out of ignorance.

Carl

Were all different Iris, and I wasnt nervous at all about going for the third shot. Of course both my local CLL Specialist and the Immunologist suggested I take the third shot. I suspect your Immunologist would also suggest a third shot.

You may not have noticed, but Dr Fausti said publicly yesterday that we should have a third shot for the Immunocompromised. But listen to your new Immunologist.

Carl

Carl,Thank you for your post and if you could let us know what the results are - only if you want to , that would be great.

Wishing you a load of antibodies!

D.

Interestingly, through CLL Support I joined the Provent Trial in the UK testing a monoclonal antibody vaccine and the University of Birmingham Study who wanted immunocompromised folk to monitor vaccine impact. As I am also on the Flair trial on Ibrutinib I was keen as they say immunocompromised on BTK inhibitors are particularly likely to have little vaccine response. I had both the monoclonal and AZ vaccine shots (x2) between Jan and April. In May I was given a Lateral Flow Test. I was told N refers to Nucleus of the Virus and S to the Spike of the virus. Different vaccines attack either the Nucleus of the Spike. It appears below I have had a strong? immunity reaction to the S of 3773.8 which I am happy about. Issue is they do not know if this is due to the AZ vaccine, the monoclonal vaccine or a mix of both to the CLL profile I have. My instinct it is the monoclonal trial but have to wait until the trial studies play through. Will keep you posted. Stay sage and well.

Sample (Clotted blood) Collected 06 May 2021 09:20 Received 06 May 2021 15:21 COVID-19 SEROLOGY

SARS CoV-2 |gG See below

CoV-2 anti-N |gG

EQUIVOCAL

b Abbott ARCHITECT

This may represent a low level SARS—CoV—2 anti-N

antibody or may be due to

non—specific reactivity in the assay. Please send a repeat sample if infection

in the past 2 weeks.

Detection of this antibody is NOT seen as a result

of COVID~19 vaccination.

This assay has been verified by the laboratory and

is awaiting accreditation

under IS015189 2012.

CoV-2 anti-S |gG DETECTED

CoV-2 anti-S |gG level AUIm| 3773.80

SARS CoV-2 serology comment

Consistent with sARs—cov—2 infection or

vaccination at some time.

Correlates of immunity against SARS—CoV—2 are not

yet known. National guidance on PPE and social distancing MUST still be followed.

This assay has been verified by the laboratory and

is awaiting accreditation under IS015189 2012.

SARS CoV-2 serology

Performed by John Radcliffe Microbiology.

I did 3rd as well...JNJ after Modernas. No antibody response. Tempted to try Pfizer for a 3rd experiment.

I think whether someone should get vaccinated is a personal choice. I understand why some people are worried that vaccines could have long term side effects, that seems a reasonable to me.

But this was not a thread about who should or should not get a vaccine. It was a thread by someone with cll who wanted a third booster and observed that we have an excess of vaccines in the US such that those of us who choose to get a booster are not depriving people who want vaccines from getting a vaccine. I chose a booster too and my thought processes were the same. I would have waited on my booster if I was taking a vaccine from someone who wanted one.

I think it fair to say you injected your antivax views in a thread where no one was asking you to get a vaccine. Your reply was somewhat sarcastic, suggesting the writer could have your vaccine. That's what prompted my reply.

I think expressing concerns about vaccine side effects is legitimate. I certainly considered that risk. however slight.

But your suggestion now that the vaccines are ineffective totally ignores the facts. Of course there are breakthrough infections, no one ever said there would not be. Rather than talk about an anecdotal story of some vaccinated people getting covid, how about we compare how large groups of people who take the vaccine do against large groups that do not vaccinate. The contrast is stunning.

Since vaccinations started in Los Angeles county through June 7th of this year of the 437,000 reported covid cases, about 435000 have been among non vaccinated people, only 2000 breakthrough cases among non vaccinated people. Of the almost 13000 people who were hospitalized, less than 200 of that group were vaccinated. the unvaccinated group had over 12000 deaths, the vaccinated group had only 19 people die. Here is the citation:

latimes.com/california/stor...

So you can take the vaccine, that's up to you, even though its clear that people who choose not to vaccinate spread covid to others at massively higher rates that vaccinated people do.

You have no legitimate argument that covid vaccines are not effective. The data overwhelming shows that's thousands of unvaccinated people die every day while the death rate among vaccinated people is miniscule.

I truly do respect your right to not have the vaccine and understand your concern about side effects. If you are spreading information that the vaccines are not effective, you are contributing to a misinformation campaign that is literally killing people.

I have shown you an example of the data out there that clearly shows unvaccinated die at a tremendously higher rate than vaccinate people. Where is your data? This was a discussion about booster shots where you injected anti vax views. I think we are all entitled to our views.

I have many anti vax friends and I largely avoid debating them on vaccines. When they do appear to delight in telling me about a vaccinated person getting covid, I link them to articles like the one above. Its largely a waste of time because they can always play the fake news card and say the data is untrue.

Do you not believe that about 95% of the people in hospitals with covid are unvaccinated? Do you not believe the death rate for vaccinated people is tiny when compared to unvaccinated people? Do you have any real data to contradict that? I am curious.

in reply to cajunjeff

I deleted my comments have a great day.

cajunjeff profile image
cajunjeff in reply to

Okay, no worries. I hope I did come off as being rude, that was not my intent. As I wrote, I respect your right to not take the vaccine and I think its reasonable to worry about vaccine side effects.

I have some very good friends who don't want the vaccines and I don't try to talk them into it. They also challenge the effectiveness of the vaccine, as you did. I think it fair at that point to point to data that shows the vaccines are highly effective and that the vast majority of people who die from covid every day are unvaccinated.

I am not an expert. If you or anyone else have real data that contradicts that it is the unvaccinated people that make up more than 90% of covid hospitalizations and death, I would like to see that data.

The California article I linked you to is in line with national data:

An Associated Press analysis of available government data from May shows that “breakthrough” infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for fewer than 1,200 of more than 107,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations. That’s about 1.1%.

And only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in May were in fully vaccinated people. That translates to about 0.8%, or five deaths per day on average.

apnews.com/article/coronavi...

There is a staggering difference between deaths from unvaccinated people vs vaccinated people. I have some very smart friends who are anti vax and it confounds me that they could look at data like this and argue vaccines are not effective. I try to keep an open mind to opposite views, but facts are facts.

Good luck to you with whatever your plan is for covid. I do think it is very fair to say that the vaccines are much less protective for us with cll.

HopeME profile image
HopeME in reply to cajunjeff

Jeff: You wrote nothing wrong. Anyone with CLL who chooses not to get the vaccine is……well let’s just say God help them.

AussieNeil profile image
AussieNeilAdministrator in reply to

NotLikingCLL,

Don't forget the confounding factors that the majority of the population have been vaccinated in such cases where more vaccinated people catch COVID-19 than those unvaccinated, plus older people, who have age related reduced immunity, were prioritised for vaccination early and rightly concerned about their risk of dying from a COVID-19 infection, so were more likely to be vaccinated.

What's most important (and which you have neglected to acknowledge), is that the death rate is far, far higher in unvaccinated folk.

Neil

To those who have questioned the validity of the Vaccine, and I believe there was only one voice in this room whose I missed reading before he deleted his post, take a sip of this.

Today it is reported in the American news that there are two states alone whose overwhelming rate of infection currently is existing in every single County in those two states. Those two states are my own State of Florida, and also the State of Arkansas. Three states accounted for more than 40% of all new cases in the US, and those states are Florida, Texas, and Missouri. Those states of course are the ones who eased up on restrictions during the active phase of the pandemic, and also whose governors didnt support the mask mandate, and of course have not public urged the public to be vaccinated. Hmmmmm I wonder what that means.

I’m tempted to also go over to my local CVS and get another Moderna shot (or Pfizer) if boosters aren’t authorized AND available asap. However, since the boosters are supposed to be updated to protect more against the Delta variation, wouldn’t it be better to wait (self isolate longer unfortunately) for an updated shot that might offer better protection against this latest strain?

HopeME profile image
HopeME in reply to Myfavoritecat

My doctor said just that last week. If I wait the vaccine will likely become more tailored to the prevalent strains of Covid. On the other hand, getting a booster now could be beneficial/protective if I’m exposed to Covid before the vaccine is modified later in the year. No easy answers. I’m waiting until after Labor Day to make a decision.

Good luck,

Mark

wizzard166 profile image
wizzard166 in reply to HopeME

Interesting addition to my post, in that the question arose whether waiting until an improved booster is out might have been more beneficial.

I did think about this, and as those getting to know me through my writing already understand I tend to think a lot. So I let my brain work on that question and came to the conclusion to run and get the third shot now.

The logic basically is this, and I'm assuming we are discussing those of us who had low to no antibody response to the first two shots. If I'm sitting here with no antibodies or very low antibody levels, then I'm a sitting duck in a firing range filled with a bunch of guys who like to shoot guns. If I'm a sitting duck at the moment, and quickly getting a third shot might enable me to escape the shooting range even if I get wounded, then hell yea bring on the third shot.

Not exactly Harvard language or sentence structure, but I think it makes a very valid point.

Carl

I’m going to wait a bit for my booster. But, if things get much worse fast, I might try to get a booster now, and maybe another booster if it comes out more sensitive to delta. I wonder if you can OD on boosters???

HopeME profile image
HopeME in reply to Davidcara

Hard to say. Mixing and matching vaccinations and adding booster after booster and pretty soon you’re running an individual clinical trial with no medical oversight. I do think it makes sense to get a booster based upon the Israeli data but we are in uncharted waters. That is why I’m going to wait just a bit longer and see what information becomes available between now and early September.

wizzard166 profile image
wizzard166 in reply to HopeME

I always wanted to be a doctor, so I guess the idea of running a clinical trial with no oversight is exciting. Just my kinky sense of humor.

I truly do not think there is any danger in multiple booster shots, and in my case the Pfizer is the same type of mechanism as the Moderna. That means that the Pfizer like the Moderna uses a non live replica of the amino acids present in the RNA of the virus spikes. So being non live, and especially because our immune systems are so weak and don't respond that much anyway, I don't see the risk. When my new Immunologist mentioned our local options were Moderna, Pfizer, and J and J, I cringed when I heard J and J because of the news about the dangerous side effects it has produced. I'm aware that those dangerous side effects are of course very small percentages of the total population that received J and J; still, I didn't want to try that one. She picked Pfizer and I felt relieved.

Hope you do what your mind and gut tells you to do, and do not be swayed by anyone else (except maybe your CLL Specialist or an Immunologist). I had both tell me to go and do it to give myself a chance, so of course I'd have to be a total moron not to have done it. I'm pretty stupid but not that stupid.

I feel very strongly that waiting for politicians to give the go ahead to the governmental authority that will give a yey or ney to Booster Shots is a bad idea; especially, if the original Antibody test showed little or no antibodies like mine did. As long as you don't have to break a law or risk a fine if you go and get a third shot like I did, then why the hell not. I can always go back out after those buffoons give a go ahead, and after a new updated version comes out, and get another one.

Carl

wizzard166 profile image
wizzard166 in reply to Davidcara

Our Group Site Has Important New Info In Today's List Of Posts

Anyone following my Post, which has drawn a large amount of interest, will want to see Dr Koffman's new Post posted 9 hours ago. It saddens me, but I felt you all should see it.

He is reporting a study that gives some results of immunocompromised who have received a third shot.

I won't let it dampen my spirits, and it doesnt mean there might be other studies that disagree with the results, but it must be respected. I still hold hope that my next blood test for antibody production about three weeks from now will come out showing production of antibodies.

Carl

Davidcara profile image
Davidcara in reply to wizzard166

I cannot seem to find Dr. Koffman’s post. I will tell you, I do not expect much response from a booster. If two Pfizer’s lead to no measurable antibodies, not sure a third would help that much. Will eventually take that third shot though because, even a minuscule help is better than nothing.

wizzard166 profile image
wizzard166 in reply to Davidcara

Some hope is better than no hope

This is such a great post wizzard166 and reading the 60+ replies (and counting) shows such an increasing interest in the 3rd shot and or booster shot.

Your additional inputs Wizzard I so relate too having mulled over this very topic back in April after having a low antibodies result, thanks to the LLS Study opportunity to find out that info. And your additional inputs are well stated regarding your thoughts on your post topic and insights on this important point we CLLers and others with weak or no antibodies are dealing with.

I like you Wizzard, got basically a thumbs up from both my GP n CLL doc to give shot #3 a try back in May with them noting possible side affects from 3rd shot were at that time their only known concern n they noted little data on the topic. Like you I decided to give it a shot having weighed in a lot of consideration including “waiting” for more data, “waiting” for a booster, “waiting” for everyone to get vaccines before hogging another one for myself and so on.

But my personal situation trumped all those waiting concerns… I needed to try it to hopefully propel my antibodies to help protect getting covid and thus increase my protection ability from giving covid to my wife which was everything to our situation to help keep her alive per her sudden medical situation. So 3rd shot was a very easy choice in my case.

I also knew that vaccine potency wears off, so my plan was get 3rd shot, hope it works, and then get booster once those are developed/available.

Getting 3rd shot… how was that gonna happen? Was there rules against it? Not that I was aware of and so I signed up on Walgreens website and easily got an appt as already the antivaxers were making their stand early on. Plus the Walgreens pharmacist told me they had to dispose expired vaccines at that time! No ethics/hogging problem … I’ll take 3rd shot before it expires. Walgreens vaccine shot paperwork asked me one prior vaccine question … had I taken either a Moderna or Pfizer shot? I truthfully said no having taken J&J.

When I spoke with Pharmacist about that one question it had nothing to do with thwarting “3rd shoters”. It was for finding out if someone had a previous one shot of Moderna or Phizer.

So having wade thru all the thoughts about the 3rd shot, kinda like you did, I got a pair of Pfizer jabs. No post-long term affects (so far knock on wood), been almost two months past 3rd shot now.

Then afterwards of getting the Pfizer shots read that article about the organ surgeon who successfully had 3rd shot to propel his antibodies! That really fired me up, then read about Israel giving the 3rd shot out, that also fired me up… some data, some positive results. Yeah! Hope is here.

Then finding out my own results which showed my antibodies soared by a factor of >25 (from 100 to >2500) I was ecstatic. Lucky maybe, but I gotta say it gave me a ton of confidence I can better protect myself, hence protect my wife from getting covid. Goal accomplished.

Then rereading the tests results disclaimers I got to over-thinking the disclaimer verbiage wondering if; I had or have covid, wondering if maybe it was a false test reading, etc, etc. Then my docs looked my results over and told me no no no, it’s 3rd shot vaccine that gave you the positive reading and yes your antibodies score are great. Ahh … 3rd shot can work!

I so also agree with cajunjeff that 3rd shot definitely is a personal choice. I understand wanting to wait on more data for safety concerns. But like you Wizzard (and cajunjeff) and several others on this website that have done the 3rd shot for our own personal reasons, we all chose to give it a try. Generally speaking we feel what do we have to lose and noting we have taken lots of prior vaccines, multiple ones sometimes, without much or any hesitation.

I think as more data comes out of studies on this topic, that 3rd shots will eventually be approved … that’s my gut feeling, but I’m no doc nor expert. It appears Pressure is finally getting this topic more urgent attention (as it should) and hopefully both 3rd shot and boosters will be made available ASAP because IMO vaccines are a key tool in the fight against covid. Hopefully, the experts will also come up with additional tools soon for those that vaccines are not working for… that is a most urgent need to be addressed.

Thanks again Wizzard for a great post of a topic of great interest to many. I wanted to share a few thoughts having traveled thru this effort and that it can work as a positive feedback.

wizzard166 profile image
wizzard166 in reply to Pin57

Hey Pin

Thank you very much for your comments. One of my big things in life in the last thirty years at least, has been to help people to whatever degree I'm capable of. So if I post and others appreciate it, it makes me feel good; maybe, better than many other things these days.

The article link posted by Dr. Koffman of our site yesterday, did sadden me upon reading it. I have to wonder why your results, some coming out of Israel, and others who supposedly have had increase in antibodies after a third shot, differ so greatly from the study that Dr. Koffman provided the link to. That study literally said that all 18 our of the 18 immunocompromised people in the 48 person study had zero antibody production from a third shot. My heart sank when I read that article and study, but then reading your post today my spirits are back up a bit. I'll know in about another three weeks, when I'm supposed to take the blood test for antibodies again, if my third shot (Pfizer this time after two Moderna early in this year) did anything for me like yours did.

My only consolation when reading the study Dr. Koffman provided the link to, was that frankly its a very weak study with only 48 people. I would like to have seen hundreds of people at least, and then too there were only 18 immunocompromised; still, batting 0.000 for a positive result from those 18 is likely somewhat significant. We don't know of course anything about the 18 who were chosen. Maybe all 18 were currently on something like Imbrutinib, and my understanding is our already weakened immune systems get even worse when we go on treatment. There is probably many factors involved in the makeup of those 18 chosen that could in and of themselves have led to bad results. I have no clue, but I'm sure many of our group would have some insight on that.

Anyway I'm very glad and thankful that I was so easily able to get a third shot. The Immunologist I saw for the first time, who basically said go get the shot, gave me an order for the blood work after four weeks, and I had the Pfizer on July 23, so i guess another three weeks. I asked her if I should take the fourth shot (second Pfizer), four weeks after the first one. She said not yet, but the system forced me to schedule the second shot when i scheduled the first one. So I have an appointment, but of course I can cancel it ahead of the date.

Carl

Davidcara profile image
Davidcara in reply to Pin57

Wow, so happy for you Pin57. Power in the booster. You are the same as me, Deletion 13 muted, the exception being I have been on ibrutinib for 16 months, with no detectable antibodies after second Pfizer. Maybe something will happen after the booster. Just not counting on it but, hoping for sure

Pin57 profile image
Pin57 in reply to Davidcara

Good luck, hoping great success for you!

Hey good luck on that 3rd (& your case 4th) shots, hope your antibodies count soar!

It is a great post wizzard and a hot topic I think will get more and more airtime as people hear of the studies going on and learn is there a way to maybe help produce antibodies?

As for Dr Ks comments, in very small study as you noted, I think the people had been or were on treatment? I could be wrong on that, I should reread it. I have read other articles n what few studies are done that it can have an effect on antibodies buildup.

My reason to post my results wasn’t to be boastful or anything like that… it was to offer hope for whoever else can produce a boast in antibodies via a 3rd shot, or future boosters when they finally release them. I like you was disappointed to read Dr Ks summary of that small sample … it’s gotta suck bigtime for those individuals to find out those results. Hoping the smart scientists can come up with new options for those cases and help them with antibodies buildup.

We are all in different phases/situations of CLL and it appears that plays a role with antibodies. Much to learn about this and hopefully the bigger studies going on will shed more info on this topic.

Thanks again wizzard, you made my day with your fine post and I just wanted to interject that yeah this concept can work and I know I’m not an “n of 1”… others on this website have too been fortunate to generate significant antibodies scores via 3rd shot.

Good luck wizzard, let us know how it goes if that’s ok?

Curious about your process. I plan to get booster after no detection after Moderna vaccines. Did you walk in? When I looked into registering online, each asked in a variety of ways, if I have already had vaccines. I also don't want to be dishonest.

wizzard166 profile image
wizzard166 in reply to Jodi19

I went online to CVS and honestly don't remember a single question about whether or not I've already been vaccinated. So I just scheduled in for the shot wilth Pfizer. If they process through Medicare, then Medicare might reject paying for it; however, I'm prepared to pay privately if that happens.

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