Immune Compromised Patients May Get 3rd Vaccination

[wizzard166]

I mentioned this story in a reply I just made to a different Post, and decided it was too important a story to leave only in that reply. So I'm now posting about it.

In essence my blood test at Quest Labs to see if my two vaccine shots resulted in any antibodies came back "NONE" I've been a little depressed about that. Then my CLL Specialist told me a couple days ago about Labcorp test is better because it actually gives a measurement, and might not have shown "NONE". She then told me about a possible 3rd Vaccine Shot being now considered for people like us with low immune systems. I found an article that I am providing a link to here, specifically about this 3rd Shot for Cancer patients and other immune compromised. Here is the link:

washingtonpost.com/health/2...

This is a small segment from that article:

A federal advisory panel is expected next week to consider whether health-care workers should be allowed to give additional coronavirus shots to patients with fragile immune systems, even as top U.S. health officials have said an additional dose of vaccine is not widely needed.

The prospect of booster shots emerged last week as the maker of a two-dose coronavirus vaccine, Pfizer-BioNTech, announced it would seek regulatory approval for a third inoculation amid rising global concern about the highly transmissible delta variant.

The advisory panel next week plans to focus on the 2 to 4 percent of U.S. adults who have suppressed immunity, a population that includes organ transplant recipients, people on cancer treatments and people living with rheumatologic conditions, HIV and leukemia.

The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, which makes vaccine recommendations to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, is scheduled at a July 22 meeting to discuss the clinical considerations involved with giving additional doses to immunocompromised patients.

There is Hope for us

Carl

[RosettaClapp]

The name of a specific Israeli study into vaccine efficacy for CLL patients is :- Efficacy of the BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 vaccine in patients with chronic lymphocytic leukemia I couldnt copy the address for some reason ! Makes an interesting read especially for the like of us who have had obiutumazab and Venteclax in that Obinutumazab is an anti CD 20 agent

[ChristyAnne_UK]

Hi.. Our JCVI in the UK have proposed a third vaccine in the UK, commencing in September with us at the front of the queue. Final decision pending.

Looks like we’re all in suspense!

Thanks for sharing.

[bennevisplace in reply to ChristyAnne_UK]

It's not a recommendation yet ChristyAnne, but if it's on it should be September and we should be invited.

[ChristyAnne_UK in reply to bennevisplace]

Isn’t that exactly what I said? A proposal does not a recommendation make.

Proposal: A plan or suggestion, especially a formal or written one, put forward for consideration by others.

[bennevisplace in reply to ChristyAnne_UK]

Ha! So that's why my gf made me do it over again when I suggested marriage?

[ChristyAnne_UK in reply to bennevisplace]

I have one word for your gf…

RUN!!!!! 😱

[bennevisplace in reply to ChristyAnne_UK]

Too late!!! 💖💖

[ChristyAnne_UK in reply to bennevisplace]

Ohh, no!! 😱 Where did you hide the body, you fiend??!!

[Justasheet1 in reply to bennevisplace]

😂😂😂😂😂

[Panz]

Thanks a million for sharing!!!

Panz 🙂☘️🙏💕

[seelel]

Not forgetting that the use of 2 or 3 vaccines for immune dysfunctionals like us is still entirely experimental. They have demonstrated that the efficacy improves after the 2nd shot, but just as the efficacy doesn't rise very high, it might drop off very quickly. In other words, protection from antibodies produced may be short lived.

There is no data on this yet, so until then, be ever vigilant............🙃

[HopeME in reply to seelel]

Are you suggesting a third shot may be harmful or just ineffective?

[seelel in reply to HopeME]

We just don't know yet. The experts are saying probably 'No' to a 3rd shot for healthy people. It's all experimental.

But I'm not suggesting harmful. Only that the effectiveness of the 2nd and 3rd shot could fall away quite quickly. Research and data just isn't there yet.

[wizzard166 in reply to seelel]

There have been enough millions and millions of vaccine doses administered already to know that the vaccine isnt harmful; despite, the fear mongering efforts by the uneducated to convince people not to take any vaccine at all. So the way I look at it is that it can't hurt me, and maybe it will help me, so the net result of that transaction is a positive thing.

[wizzard166 in reply to seelel]

Seelel

The way I see it is this: it might not work to increase any antibodies I might already have or not have; however, not trying a third shot leaves no question to be answered at all. Not trying a third shot will definitely not increase my antibodies. So yes leave it to be seen, and in the meantime do something proactive to possibly improve the situation

Carl

[HopeME in reply to wizzard166]

Wizard: that is exactly how I see it. Just like the first two shots they may not help but they certainly can’t hurt. In my opinion if Pfizer and the Israelis are recommending a booster I’m on board.

[Youngen in reply to HopeME]

Had my third Pfizer in israel. May not help but I don’t believe it will harm. Fingers crossed!

[wizzard166 in reply to Youngen]

My CLL local Specialist is originally from Israel, and she is the one who suggested to me that I seek a third shot. Hopefully I'll gain access to one soon.

Carl

[Youngen in reply to wizzard166]

Good luck! Where are you based? She likely follows the Israeli news, altho the approval for the third vaccine for immunocompromised was reported globally and the foreign press was all there covering it when I went to get it 🤣

[Catherine67]

So here’s what I don’t understand. I have had two Astra Zeneca jabs and recent test has shown that my body failed to respond and has not produced the required antibodies. I felt quite ill after both jabs and am not keen to go through that yet again if it will serve no purpose. Why is there reason to believe a third jab will make any difference?

[Vizilo in reply to Catherine67]

Right now there’s not much proof that a third shot will make a difference other than anecdotal evidence from some individuals who have tried a third shot. But, to my knowledge, no results from clinical trials to support use of a third shot. The view seems to be - it probably can’t hurt, so try it.

It may take a fourth or fifth shot…..perhaps, looking for the straw that breaks the camel’s back

In the meantime, masks, social distancing, hand washing and so on….

[PaulaS Volunteer in reply to Catherine67]

I hear what you're saying, Catherine. But after their second jab, many immuno-compromised people get a big increase in antibodies, that they didn't get after the first jab. So, it could be that some people need a third jab to stimulate their immune systems, even if their systems didn't react with the earlier jabs.

No one really knows, but it seems worth a try. CLL is so very variable, that it can react in unexpected ways.

As Vizilo has just said, it may take a third, fourth or fifth shot to make a difference.

Paula

[Pin57 in reply to PaulaS]

3rd Shot for me did exactly as you predicted it might PaulaS, it propelled my antibodies count greater than 25x fold (to over 2500 U/ml). Tiny sample n rogue effort n not part of a 3-shot study, but let it be known there is hope, it can work! 😃

[wizzard166 in reply to Pin57]

congratulations Pin, and I'm happy for you that someone made that third shot available.

[Youngen in reply to Pin57]

Congrats! That’s great news!! Are you on w&w or on treatment?

[wizzard166 in reply to Catherine67]

Catherine

I see you are in the UK, and I am not familiar with the tests being used there. In the US the two major labs people go to for blood work are Quest and Labcorp. I just learned from my CLL Specialist that Quest results are either yes or no; whereas, Labcorp actually produces a number. So my Quest test that said No Antibodies if done at Labcorp might actually show a small amount of them.

I had little reaction to either shot, although the second one produced a red rash on my bicep that spread around the arm. It didnt hurt or itch and it was gone in about a week. Quite sick sounds like a bad reaction, so I don't blame you for not wanting a third shot.

Apparently some experimenting has been done with a third shot already on immunocompromised individuals, and the results are showing some success in those who with two shots had little to no success. That is why a hearing is going to be held in the US on July 22. I'm obviously going to take a third shot, if I am lucky enough to be able to get one, and this time I'm sure that the test will be one with better measurements than yes or no.

Carl

[bennevisplace]

Here in the UK we hope the US decision will be yes, as it should influence our ACIP equivalent committee the JCVI. They have indicated who should get a booster and when, but not whether. Does that make sense?

[bennevisplace]

Scant evidence on efficacy of booster vax in immunocompromised. Two small observational studies in transplant patients suggest some will gain antibodies, others not acc.org/latest-in-cardiolog...

It's got to be worth a shot?

[wizzard166 in reply to bennevisplace]

Perhaps there are studies being done by doctors that have not yet been published; yet, which are clearly showing an improvement. I personally would not bet against my idea, and my guess is that has led to this meeting on July 22 orchestrated by the CDC. Would there really be a Federal Hearing in the US if there was no evidence to justify it?

Anyway my opinion is that debate over whether or not it can work well for us immunocompromised patients is folly. When it can't hurt us, what is the harm in doing something that might improve our survival?

[bennevisplace in reply to wizzard166]

Direct evidence or not, I too would have a booster if on offer. Why not?

I'm honestly not sure we will be offered one in the UK. If Israel and the USA do it, and UK clinical trial data support it, our JCVI will recommend it and the government will find it hard to say no we're not going to bankroll it.

[Youngen in reply to wizzard166]

In israel all of the immunocompromised people who got the vaccine are part of a study and they will publish the results. Last time, my specialist broke down the responses by blood condition and treatment status/type which was very informative for CLL patients and he plans to do the same this time. Stay tuned!

[wizzard166 in reply to Youngen]

As an add on to this discussion, I had to see my Primary today for a routine visit. We did talk about my idea of getting a third shot, and his opinion was "of course you should do that if you can get one" He agreed that there was no harm, and with the chance that number of antibodies might improve it would be foolish not to do so.

[Mystic75]

Thanks for the post! And it needs to be done asap.

I hope the booster is given based on the antibodes test and not done based on the 'honor system', like how the vaccines were distributed. Hope they are working out the details now.

D.

[wizzard166 in reply to Mystic75]

We've already had one member post in this thread who got a third shot and had a huge boost in antibody level. What that tells us is that the third shot does have the ability to improve the antibody production against the spike virus. This is obvious because the antibodies would not mysteriously appear right after a vaccine; unless, the vaccine caused the production. Why else?, because a Wizzard waved his magic wand? I'll take science and not magic to explain a sudden appearance of antibodies that were not there prior to the shot.

While it is possible that not everyone will have the same or similar improvement, any chance we can get to improve our ability to fight a deadly virus with a compromised immune system seems like a good idea to me.

Carl

[Mystic75 in reply to wizzard166]

I agree with you completely, Carl!

[neurodervish in reply to wizzard166]

Hi Carl, I've been following this too and am very interested in learning more. I've seen 2 or 3 comments within different threads where people mentioned getting a third shot (typically a different type from their original). Some showed antibodies and some did not. What they didn't share was their CLL mutational status or treatment status. From initial research results, we know that this is critical info.

It would be great if people could include that info when commenting about getting a booster.

Pin57 , I see that you are 13q / mutated and on W&W (thanks for sharing that in your profile, because it gives important context). Given your health status, I would have hoped you'd show antibodies sooner, but this is very interesting info. Thanks for sharing it!

[wizzard166 in reply to neurodervish]

For what it is worth my original two shots showed no antibodies on the Quest Labs test. Now I've learned that Quest only reports Yes or No; whereas, Labcorp reports actual numbers found.

My mutational things are Trisomy 12 and Unmutated IVHV

Carl

[The-Man-with-a-Plan]

I read the same 'news flash' a couple of days ago. This is good news. I'm all set to get a 3rd shot (booster) if it's offered. Makes waaaaay too much sense for the immunocompromised to get it.

[Belfastbees]

UK here, last vaccine in march. I think the booster will raise levels certainly, but it's not as clear cut as that. A level of antibodies is just that, there is no indication of the effectiveness of them. Given CLL affects the white B cells it would be likely there is some impairment in their quality.

[Youngen]

I am based in Israel and had no antibodies after the first two vaccines (took part in the study mentioned in this thread). I had my third dose last week and am going for antibody testing on august 4. Unlike last time, when I had a devastating shock, I am very aware of the slim chances that I will develop antibodies. Optimistic, yet realistic. They will publish the results of the third dose and I will post my results here

[Dmdtennis]

Thank you for sharing I’m in the same situation