Just had Moderna shot

[Pogee]

FYI, I just had my first Moderna vaccine, and have had no reaction to speak of, except very mild localized pain at the injection site. I must say I was apprehensive about taking it, and still not at all sure that it's worth much, considering that it won't protect against mutations, it's only supposed to be good for 4-6 months, and I plan to social distance with a mask for the rest of my life under any set of circumstances. Still, I wanted to provide some brief info about my experience with it. Good luck to all of you out there!

[Shrink]

Hi Pogee

I felt a bit differently but hear you !

. Received both doses of Moderna and felt very very grateful.

Second shot was daunting .

Headache ,intense fatigue, sore arm and lots of muscle pain especially neck. All went away within 2-3 days

Each and every discomfort was welcomed as I assumed my CLl immune system was doing something.

I’m not sure where you’ve heard immunity lasts 4-6 months . The data is just not that clear yet

Of course we will be wearing masks and social distancing but I’m hoping that by fall things will look much better as more and more people are vaccinated.

It’s hard to be optimistic in these times but why not ?

[Pogee in reply to Shrink]

Glad you got over the side effects, ad things are looking up for you. With a million other microscopic bacterial and viral things floating around, like they've been doing for million years, I just look at this Covid issue as a blip in the larger picture. Am I being fatalistic? Maybe, but, then, don't we want to protect ourselves from everything out there?

[Big_Dee in reply to Pogee]

Hello Pogee

I don't think you are being fatalistic, just smart. I don't do things now any different than before covid hit, because 50% of the CLLers pass with pneumonia. That means I do normal anti-germ protection, but do not live my life in fear. Blessings.

[SofiaDeo in reply to Big_Dee]

Hi Big_Dee & Pogee, I think your logic may be a bit faulty. While it is true that death from pneumonia is our biggest risk, it seems reasonable to do a few simple things to prevent getting any type of pneumonia. I don't live in fear of getting hit by a car crossing the street, I simply look both ways before doing so. I try to eat a healthy balanced diet & exercise, but am not fixated on doing it. I don't live in fear of getting Covid or any other viral or bacterial pneumonia, I take a few simple precautions like masking/handwashing. I agree there are people who are overdoing it regarding preventing Covid (as well as other illness) exposure, and are fearful about it instead of rational. The simple hygiene methods of masking and increased awareness of handwashing have apparently affected influenza incidents/death this past year, why not do a few things to prevent Covid infection? We bandage our skin cuts, we don't fatalistically see if infection sets in. We pasteurize dairy to avoid ingesting bacteria that might cause infection, and cook certain other foods. We wash our food thoroughly instead of "fatalistically" letting any of the bugs in our environment affect us that way. Covid may be a "blip" in terms of the human race big picture, but we don't have to allow the increased morbidity & mortality associated with letting it spread unchecked.

[Big_Dee in reply to SofiaDeo]

Hello SofiaDeo

I think you misread my post. "That means I do normal anti-germ protection", like frequent hand washing, carry hand sanitizer, use masks, avoid ill family and avoid crowds. I did not see the need to list everything I do to protect myself as should be normal for someone with CLL. Bottom line is I will be doing the same things to protect my self post covid. Blessings.

[SofiaDeo in reply to Big_Dee]

Yup, I definitely misread it! So easy to do lately, for me at least, sigh. I think, at this point in the pandemic, we can see bugaboos much more easily than when our lives weren't suddenly turned upside-down!

[lankisterguy Volunteer]

Hi Pogee,Can you provide any links to the comments that Moderna vaccine won't protect against mutations and will only last for 4-6 months. I have not read that, and am interested in understanding the context or source of the information.

Len

[Pogee in reply to lankisterguy]

According to this article — people.com/health/moderna-v... —Moderna says it can protect for up to a year. I can't put my finger on another site that directly refutes that, but I HAVE read that a number of people have bee infected with Covid-19 even after getting their second shot, be it Pfizer or Moderna. Moreover, I think it's pretty well known that these shots don't provide protection against some mutations out there which are even more contagious and potentially deadly. Worse than all this, from what I'm reading, is the disgraceful incompetence of the EU leadership with regard to the vaccine rollout, which makes the Brexit decision look a lot better! I feel for you folks in Europe.

[lankisterguy Volunteer in reply to Pogee]

The article you cite says Moderna, one of the two pharmaceutical companies that produced an approved COVID-19 vaccine, shared the positive news that their formulation should provide at least a year's protection against the virus. To my reading that is very different than " it's only supposed to be good for 4-6 months"

-

Regarding vaccines vs. mutations: Here is a well written article from BBC:

bbc.com/news/health-55659820

Will vaccines still work?

Current vaccines were designed around earlier versions of coronavirus, but scientists believe they should still work against the new ones, although perhaps not quite as well.

Early results suggest the Pfizer vaccine protects against the new variants, but is slightly less effective.

Data on two new coronavirus vaccines that could be approved soon - one from Novavax and another from Janssen - appear to offer some protection too.

Data from the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine team suggests it protects just as well against the new UK variant. It offers less protection against the South Africa variant - although it should still protect against severe illness.

Early results from Moderna suggest its vaccine is effective against the South Africa variant, although the immune response may not be as strong or long-lasting.

Variants could emerge in the future that are more different again.

Even in the worst case scenario, vaccines could be redesigned and tweaked to be a better match - in a matter or weeks or months, if necessary, say experts.

As with flu, where a new shot is given each year to account for any changes in circulating flu viruses, something similar could happen for coronavirus.

What is being done about it?

More variants will emerge.

Scientists around the world are on the look-out and any important ones will be closely studied and monitored.

Experts are already working on updating coronavirus vaccines. The UK Government has announced a deal with biopharmaceutical company CureVac to develop vaccines against future variants, with a pre-order of 50m doses.

Urgent testing for the South Africa variant and other new versions of coronavirus with the E484K mutation is being done in parts of England.

I agree that we have no effective way to measure if we have developed antibodies to COVID-19 so we must mask and social distance for a long time until Herd Immunity takes effect- if ever.

-

Len

[newyork8 in reply to lankisterguy]

I thought you coukd measure spike S antibodies with the Roche test. Also they ARE effective against the UK variant...Pfizer and Moderna ...from what I read.

[Pogee in reply to lankisterguy]

Newdawn has called me out on my snarky remark to you. It was undeserved, and I fully and sincerely apologize. You are a blessing to me, and countless others.

[lankisterguy Volunteer in reply to Pogee]

Thank you for the apology- fully accepted!Len

[SofiaDeo in reply to Pogee]

Vaccinations, unless they have been proven to confer "sterilizing immunity", are not and never have been claimed to prevent one from getting infected with the infectious agent. They decrease the symptoms & death rate, i.e. "morbidity and mortality". And with a highly transmissible virus like Covid-19, people still getting Covid after vaccination is not unexpected.

[Pogee in reply to SofiaDeo]

Thank you, SofiaDeo. I think yours is a valuable reply to Lankisterguy, who pointedly, if not snarkily, wrote that a link I referenced said the vaccine should be good for a year: "To my reading (he said) that is very different than "it's only supposed to be good for 4-6 months." * In fact, several articles I've read note that people who have had two shots have nonetheless come down with Covid-19, thus confirming your statement. * Moreover, although Moderna officials recently stated that they have "confidence" that their vaccine protects against existing mutations, we all know that they cannot, for multiple reasons, say anything other than that, or orders would dry up and their stock valuation would plunge. And this even assumes—a very big "if"—that they have a scientific basis for such a statement. * In the long run, I'm with you: be careful, be safe, be prudent. * Thank you again.

[SofiaDeo in reply to Pogee]

Hmmm...I didn't interpret lankisterguy as being pointed/snarky, or the Moderna people are saying what are are mainly because of stock valuation. It's so difficult just reading something, there's no visual or verbal clues to intent, not including any cultural differences that contribute to misunderstandings. I am more likely to interpret the Moderna statement, for instance, as a desire to not get sued for claiming something lolol. Just as I believe the early "we don't need to mask" statements in the US were likely a misguided attempt to not set off mass panic, in addition to gaining time to secure supplies for healthcare & first responders. (Politics over public health). But I too tend to be cynical, it's sometimes hard to be otherwise in these times!

[Pogee in reply to SofiaDeo]

I appreciate you...and your cynicism. * Perhaps I was being overly sensitive and I would be happy to apologize to Lankisterguy, if he were to state that I was reading more into what he said than what he actually meant. Sort of like, "Was I inferring what he was implying, or was he not implying what I was inferring?" * As for possible cultural differences, no visual clues, etc., I'm just not into being politically correct, so if that makes me superficial in my understanding of things—as some people would have it—then, so be it. Smile...and no one will know what you're thinking! 😀

[Big_Dee in reply to lankisterguy]

Hello lankisterguy

I have read same thing, figures are changing daily, like to wear/not wear a mask. I have read vaccine effectiveness from 4-6 months to 2 years. I have also seen effectiveness against different strains of virus debated as well. Time will sort it out. blessings.

[Pogee in reply to Big_Dee]

Thank you, Big_Dee. More confirmation, going along with SofiaDeo's comments. * Perhaps Lankisterguy would like to respond to these comments, which are supportive of what I've read and heard, without being able to provide a link. * Lankisterguy: Are you there?

[Newdawn Administrator in reply to Pogee]

Pogee, I’m most concerned at the baiting, critical tone in your posts directed towards lankisterguy . I’ve read the content carefully and Lankisterguy was quite correct in asking for links to substantiate claims made. This site prides itself on being evidence based whenever possible. I think you’ve perhaps misinterpreted his comments.

Please familiarise yourself with the site posting guidelines regarding respectful behaviour towards other members.

cllsupport.org.uk/informati...

Newdawn

[Pogee in reply to Newdawn]

I understand and fully appreciate the guidelines, and, if you were to read a new post of mine you would know that, without your prodding, I already expressed a desire to apologize to Lankisterguy. He's an extraordinarily valuable member of your site, we've had positive posts in the past, and I have no reason to believe we won't continue to going forward. (In fact, I would like to believe that I've provided some modest added value to your site.) * That said, your post suggests that one should never comment unless one has a specific link at the ready to fully substantiate one's position. I wish that would always be possible, but suspect that I'm not the only one who cannot always link to sites to support every comment. * Therefore, in order to be a more respectful member of this community, I would appreciate clarification as to how one should proceed with regard to commenting, if one doesn't have full background documentation to support a statement of fact or belief. Thank you.

[Newdawn Administrator in reply to Pogee]

Of course it isn’t aways possible to produce a definitive, scientifically authenticated link to every point Pogee which is why I wrote, ‘whenever possible’. The observation here is your highly critical remark using the expression ‘snarky’ against another member for simply asking for a link. The issue being discussed is very important to members so therefore not unreasonable for ‘evidence’ to be produced to substantiate claims.

I saw your follow up response and sincerely hope the issue can be resolved with lankisterguy in the mutually respectful way we endeavour to run this site.

Newdawn

[Pogee in reply to Newdawn]

Hopefully so. I meant no disrespect.

[bkoffman CLL CURE Hero]

Had almost no reaction also, but to Pfizer. We don't know that it won't protect, but I agree it is best to assume it does not until we have data. Better therapeutics, less virulent strains, decent if imperfect vaccine protection and herd immunity will improve our lot, though I suspect that masks and hand sanitizers will be with us for a long time, as they are in many Asian countries already.

[newyork8 in reply to bkoffman]

No reaction to the 2nd shot as well? I presume any reaction would largely be from B cell antibodies, so for those with low IGG (Igg not not Iga or Igm right?) because of low B cells no reaction would be produced. But what of T cell immunity...does T cell reaction or production in response to pathogens create side effects people are experiencing or maybe could T cells be activated without side effects. I'll be getting my 2nd Moderna in 3 weeks. I thought there was a test for T cells. Btw melatonin may help slow spread to covid in epitheleal lung cells.

[bkoffman CLL CURE Hero in reply to newyork8]

Yes, 2nd shot too. I don't think the test of T cells is commercially available.

[SofiaDeo in reply to bkoffman]

Covid specific T-cells tests are unavailable commercially to my knowledge, but I know monitoring T-cell levels in HIV patients is routinely done, CD4+ & CD8+. Not Covid specific, but as a marker for the ability of our immune systems to produce functioning T-cells in general.

[bkoffman CLL CURE Hero in reply to SofiaDeo]

It's one marker of T cell function. Can sometimes be included as part of a flow.

[Tapps]

I heard that it should be active against the new mutations. I think it possibly will be like a yearly flu shot.