Do I have to drink eight glasses of water per day?

[AussieNeil]

The following advice is for people in good health and importantly, not those being treated for CLL. If you are undergoing treatment, then it is very important to provide your body with adequate water intake to keep your kidneys healthy and to flush out any toxins from the drug metabolism or dying CLL cells. In this situation, be guided by your health team.

"Everyone knows humans need water and we can’t survive without it. We’ve all heard we should be aiming for eight glasses, or two litres of water per day. (2 quarts for our US readers - Neil)

This target seems pretty steep when you think about how much water that actually is, and don’t we also get some water from the food we eat?

We asked five medical and sports science experts if we really need to drink eight glasses of water per day.

All five experts said no"

Read on for their detailed responses: theconversation.com/we-aske...

Given the importance for us to maintain good kidney health, I'll include the response from the nephrologist, Karen Dwyer, Deputy Head, School of Medicine, Deakin University: "You only need to drink to thirst. The best gauge of your hydration level is the colour of your urine. You should aim for light yellow in colour; if very dark then you're dehydrated and need more water; if clear (like water) then you don’t need so much water. Excessive water intake can be dangerous, particularly in those with heart conditions. The kidney has a remarkable ability to concentrate water so if you are “getting dry” the kidney will concentrate the urine and send a message to the brain to drink more."

Update: Does your water bottle tell you how much to drink? Here's when to obey your thirst instead

Good overview of:-

- Why we're told to aim for 2 litres a day

These recommendations apply to all beverages, not just water. Milk, tea, coffee and even alcohol can contribute to total daily intake.

Of course some of those are diuretics, meaning they'll make you urinate more often, so they won't be as hydrating (or healthy) as plain water.

Overall, beverages make up about 75 per cent of your daily fluid intake. The remaining 25 per cent comes from the food you eat.

- The science of thirst

Well, our bodies have developed a vital mechanism for that (to be sure we are drinking enough — thirst.

"The body has evolved very strong mechanisms to regulate all of this," Dr McCubbin says.

"In most cases, we can trust those mechanisms."

- When to go beyond thirst; There are exceptions to the "listen to your thirst" rule.

"For most people, thirst will get them to to where they need to go, and plain water should do the job in 95 per cent of cases," Dr McCubbin says.

abc.net.au/news/health/2024...

Neil

[Eric_68]

Hi Neil

My knowledge of water intake is that if your are thirsty then your body is already dehydrated.

We should continually sip water throughout the day all day ... the problem is with me if I di this I get up about 4 to 6 times at night to peee ...

Mostly I sip coffee and tea throughout the day.

However I would be taking action if you are always thirsty, this is a sign to avoid ..

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to Eric_68]

I became suspicious of advice with regard to how much water you should drink over a decade ago, when told during a corporate health program that I needed to drink X amount of water a day and that tea and coffee didn't count. In fact I needed to drink more water to counter the dehydrating effect of these hot drinks. That advice just didn't sit well with me, considering that tea and coffee are nearly all water. So I wasn't surprised to see that advice overturned subsequently.

Likewise, the advice about already being dehydrated if you are thirsty - it doesn't seem to fit in with the otherwise incredible way our bodies function to keep us healthy by influencing our appetites. I think this quote from Dr. Timothy Noakes, professor of exercise and sports science at the University of Cape Town in South Africa, in this Huffington Post article says it all:

"You don't tell your dog or your cat when to drink, they've got a thirst mechanism," he tells HuffPost. "Why should it be that humans should be the unique animal in the world who have to be told when to drink?"

He attributes this "you're doing it wrong" attitude largely to the bottled-water and sports drink industries. "Commercialization and industrialization have told us that humans are weak," he says, when in reality our ability to run in the heat helped us outsmart our ancient predators like lions and tigers, he says. "We should never have survived, and suddenly we're told no one knows when to drink?" (My emphasis): huffingtonpost.com.au/entry...

Surprising fact, humans "can outrun almost every creature on this planet" and I don't think we took bottled water with us while outrunning a predator: quora.com/Do-humans-actuall...

Neil

[Jonquiljo in reply to AussieNeil]

Humans are weak! I don't think we have to outrun a predator very often - and predators generally carry guns around here, so we run like hell and try not to make a habit out of it!

If you drink a lot of coffee and tea, you are constantly going to the bathroom - most of them are natural diuretics. So, you have to replace that lost water with something. And usually you "eliminate" a lot more water from the coffee or tea than the liquid you take in from drinking it. When it is hot out or we exert ourselves to any extent, we lose water simply via sweating. It doesn't have to be the dripping kind of sweating that some people have during and after exercise, but you can lose a lot of liquid just standing there. Some people notice this and compensate naturally - not everyone does.

I had thought that in California it was dry until I went to Arizona. Boy is that place dry! When I have been in Arizona on even a not very hot day (70's-80's - F), I find my body wanting to drink a lot more. When it gets hot in the 90's and even 100's, it's harder to notice because you don't feel as hot as you do in a humid climate. My brain forgets it's in Arizona and losing water fast - so I have gotten a bit dehydrated until I figured it out.

I have noticed that the overall encouragement to hydrate all the time came in the 80's and later when fitness was encouraged more. I think this went along with the fact that we are/were encouraged to do more. I really don't think it is water and sport drink companies. So sometimes we need to remind ourselves to drink more. Instead of sedentary (more acceptable in the 1950's - 70's), we are more active - some more active even though we are a helluva lot older. We are told to take a short walk around the office if we sit too long. So our bodies may be sending messages to our brains that we are thirsty, but our brains are so overwhelmed with all that runs through them that we tend to forget sometimes.

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to Jonquiljo]

So how did weak humans overpopulate the Earth and threaten other apparently more powerful predators with extinction? Brainpower only goes so far.

As to tea/coffee being diuretics, what's important is whether the diuretic effect results in more or less water being expelled than is imbibed. "But most research suggests that the fluid in caffeinated drinks balances the diuretic effect of typical caffeine levels." mayoclinic.org/healthy-life...

[Jonquiljo in reply to AussieNeil]

Well, we overpopulated the earth because we had thumbs which could help us produce more and more lethal weapons to eradicate pretty much anything that stood in our way! I think our brainpower is overrated and we are beginning to see that. I never have seen the human race as being a long-standing species on this planet in years to come. We are probably a blip in geological time, only to be survived by the species that don't kill themselves in the process of living here. I really don't think that humanity has a long way to go on earth and we have done quite a few nasty things to prove that. Just my opinion!

Back to Coffee/Tea. Interesting article of sorts. I get the impression that it's really about what we are habituated to. If I drank more than 1-2 cups of coffee, you'd have to scrape me off the ceiling, whereas there are lots of people who drink the stuff all the day - and their urine is probably light yellow, not bright orange as some people would expect. Surely they must drink water at some point? Or do they?

Yes, fluid intake advice did change. Then again when I was growing up (not yet completed at 65), people were somewhat down on exercise - then totally forgot about it. Only when people got tired of being unhealthy in the 80's did we get all this advice promoting exercise and fluids to hydrate. I guess I'm kind of a fossil, because I don't even know what people advise (younger) people now.

[MsLockYourPosts Passed Volunteer in reply to AussieNeil]

I gave up drinking coffee all day and into the night in my 20s, when I realized that it left me with a major case of the jitters. One cup in the morning, maybe a second if I just can't wake up, but never after 12 noon. It made a big difference in the way I felt, and I don't have to worry about the diuretic effect. I'm not sure how I made it through college living on coffee, but I'm not sure that I would have made it without - burning the candle at both ends days. Ah, youth!

[Jonquiljo]

I don't know - as I drink about 10 - 1/2 L bottles of water per day. Then again, most of the year (in CA) the climate is warm and dry, I exercise a lot , and I always thought it was a good habit to get into. If you get dehydrated - and yes - by the time you are thirsty you are dehydrated, then it isn't good for your body.

On the other hand, I was recently diagnosed with very high blood pressure and told that it was just STARTING to get to my kidneys. Luckily I likely have caught it in time. Aside from taking medication, I was told by my cardiologist to keep my water intake high.

What I am wondering is how do people individually tailor things for themselves? I just finished working out (1 1/2 hours on an incline elliptical machine) and I know that I will constantly need to drink water for the next 6-8 hours to keep from dehydration. And that is not extreme exercise - lot of people do a lot more. This all makes me wonder what these supposed "experts" are saying as they really don't give any substantiation to what they are saying. Like many MD's they tend to say things but not get specific in an explanation.

[MsLockYourPosts Passed Volunteer]

Interesting. It's been 100 here today and I just reached for my fifth bottle of water - 500 ml. I normally don't drink anywhere near that much. I do believe that the body tells us what we need. I also think what we eat plays into the thirst factor. Salty foods, for example, leave me wanting / needing more water.

[Jonquiljo in reply to MsLockYourPosts]

Well, that’s 2 1/2 Litres. If you spent most of the time in an air conditioned climate/house/room/work, then you aren’t getting the full heat exposure - so thats pretty good.

Salty foods will really affect your drinking habits. It may just be my perception, but things seem to get saltier and saltier as time moves on. I don’t think its me, I think its just a trend.

[MsLockYourPosts Passed Volunteer in reply to Jonquiljo]

I recently bought a jalapeño salsa. The only thing I could taste was salt. When you can't taste jalapeño, something's wrong! I wish there were more low sodium products instead of everything being low fat.

No air conditioning here. We didn't use to need it. If I stay up and open everything up at night the house holds reasonable well for most of the day, but any outdoor activity is draining. And my biggest CLL issue is that I'm very heat and cold intolerant.

[Jonquiljo in reply to MsLockYourPosts]

Funny, I'm heat and cold intolerant but I am asymptomatic. I guess I'm just a wimp. I had my home set up with one nice heat and A/C system. My dogs demanded it!

If you can taste salt in jalepeno, then it is really salty!

[teakbank12]

Interesting that I'm told I have 8mm kidney stones on a recent scan and my urine is often dark even though I drink plenty.

I get dehydrated easily because of also having Crohn's and multiple toilet visits.

[Tommays56]

Well

Actually as a former ultra trail runner up to 52.5 miles who has managed to not get heat stroke or otherwise damaged you can drink to MUCH

The issues becomes messing up your electrolyte balance and blood chemistry in general

Adding a bit more on the longest events with the least support 3 liters is the maximum amount of water that's reasonable to carry and its generally had the additive of your choice mixed in

So even in and extreme situation after the first 3 liters over 6 to 8 hours its work to take in more fluid to keep going the final 8 hours

The most recent issue was at work during the current heat wave i bought in my small Hydration vest and could not really keep up and was ending the days with salty lips which is really BAD

[Jonquiljo in reply to Tommays56]

Any sports drink or additive is liable to mess up your electrolyte imbalance a lot, as many of these companies that make this stuff don’t really know what they’re doing - or how the consumer will use their product

There’s just so much water that your body can process during a certain period, and when you exceed that your body tends to do strange things with all that extra water. Thats how people get sick - from drinking lots more than a few liters in 6-8 hours. You sound like someone who is experienced and careful. The heat out there can be brutal.

If we live in a poorly air conditioned home, we can actually raise (or not lower) the indoor humidity even though we cool it inside. This usually happens when a house or building is over-air conditioned, which is often the case because people selling them like to sell you the high capacity units even if you dont need them. Too cool too fast won’t allow for proper dehumidification. That can really confuse our bodies. I just got a “new” (i.e- old) house and had the a/c changed. It was seriously over-chilled in the old house, but humidity didn’t go gown much. In the new house, the units are balanced to slowly cool everything. We end up feeling more comfortable a few degrees higher than we did in the old house.

It’s relatively minor, but can make a difference if you are in and out all day long.

[Tommays56 in reply to Jonquiljo]

Yes nobody really uses "sport drinks" there our a bunch of specialty items like Tailwind and other strange names that have proven out in the community

[Jonquiljo in reply to Tommays56]

I'll drink small amounts of sports drink if I am going to do a long workout. But I prefer water. The small amount of salt and other electrolytes supposedly keeps the fluids going through you. I'm afraid to say that, at 65, my endurance is fading. I don't think it's CLL either.

[cllady01 Former Volunteer]

Good discussion. And, as we all are aware from our experience with this site, we (and our bodies workings) are all different, so any statement that suggests we all need exactly the same thing to be our healthy best, is not to be taken literally and to heart.

In the case of water consumption, I have developed a habit of drinking more water daily because the probability of having cancer treatment looms in my life.

I wanted drinking water to be a habit, so I now drink 48 ozs. daily, and I find that instead of another cup of coffee, which is always my mindset when the cup runs dry, it is the same with a glass of water after sipping on a glass as I sit at the computer or am reading.

Neil, the photo of the cave is beautifully done--the shadow and light and the two colors of blue---do you have it framed and displayed?

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to cllady01]

Glad you liked this photo. After posting it, I noticed that the water outline had the rough appearance of Scotland, Wales and England, with Scotland separating!

I have a few favourite photos in mind for framing .

[cllady01 Former Volunteer in reply to AussieNeil]

It is the kind of photo that makes me want to be there!

[MsLockYourPosts Passed Volunteer]

I just went back and looked, and you are right about the shape! I don't know how people like you and Chris ever choose favorites. You both take such stunning photos!

[Luckyliss]

Well I was given liters upon liters to hydrate me while in hospital this week for five days and asked for them to knock it off it was too much and finally someone agreed I didn’t need round the clock hydration - not to be gross but they track my urine in a bucket thjngee and I was peeing clear the entire time.... they do it bc it’s the easiest answer to anything and I was being given tons of antibiotics intravenously at same time and had the new chemo and fever 🤒. Now I’m home and it’s hard to keep up they said I need 4-6 a day of any liquid not just water and the veneclexta says to drink 56ozs on days 1, 6 and 7 so I am following those rules for now thx for sharing Neil 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator]

Is thirst a good predictor of dehydration?

theconversation.com/is-thir...

What is dehydration?

Staying hydrated (having enough water in our bodies) is important for several reasons, including:

- regulating body temperature through sweat and respiration

- lubricating joints and eyes

- preventing infections

- digesting and absorbing nutrients

- flushing out waste (via the kidneys)

- preventing constipation

- brain function (including memory and concentration)

- mood and energy levels

- physical performance and recovery from exercise

- skin health.

:

What does the evidence say?

Despite thirst being one of the most basic biological drivers for good hydration, science suggests our feelings of thirst and subsequent fluid intake don’t always correlate with hydration levels.

:

Interestingly, research shows women experience thirst more strongly than men, regardless of hydration status.

:

Other ways to tell if you need to drink some water

While acknowledging some people will need to drink more or less, for many people, eight cups (or two litres) a day is a good amount of water to aim for.

But beyond thirst, there are many other ways to tell whether you might need to drink more water.

1. urine colour: pale yellow urine typically indicates good hydration, while darker, concentrated urine suggests dehydration

2. frequency of going to the toilet: urinating regularly (around four to six times a day) indicates good hydration. Infrequent urination can signal dehydration

3. skin turgor test: gently pinching the skin (for example, on the back of the hand) and observing how quickly the skin returns to its normal position can help assess hydration. Slow return may indicate dehydration

4. mouth and lips: a dry mouth or cracked lips can be early signs of dehydration

5. headaches and fatigue: frequent headaches, dizziness, or unexplained fatigue can be signs of inadequate hydration

6. sweating: in physically active people, monitoring how much they sweat during activity can help estimate fluid loss and hydration needs. Higher levels of sweat may predispose a person to dehydration if they are unable to replace the fluid lost through water intake

These indicators, used together, provide a more comprehensive picture of hydration without solely depending on the sensation of thirst.

Of course, if you do feel thirsty, it’s still a good idea to drink some water.