Hi, I’ve had my biopsy results. Severe AIH and stage 1 cirrhosis. I started on the high dose prednisone yesterday. So far, not too terrible. I’ve been invited to a party tonight and my question is, is de alcoholised wine ok to drink (moderately) with cirrhosis. It says on the bottle that it contains less than 0.5% alcohol so I’m just not sure. Many thanks if you can help.. hope you’re all keeping as well as you can. Best wishes, Paddy
De-alcoholised wine?: Hi, I’ve had my... - British Liver Trust
De-alcoholised wine?
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Padder
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Hi Paddy..I would probably stick with soft drinks.Apart from the fact it doesnt sound very nice you should really start to think about giving up alcohol and like they say theres no time like the present ☺.
Anyway hope you have a good time regardless of what you drink.
Hi, thanks for your reply. I thought it was alcohol free, (de-alcoholised) but on looking at the label I see it says ‘less than 0.5%’ .. confusing. I have no problem with not drinking. I rarely ever drank anyway. In fact i find it’s more the people around me that seem perturbed and want me to ‘chill’ and have ‘a good time’.. I’ll stick with softies as suggested, but I’d love a definitive answer about these wines. It would be nice to have some of the wine flavour without the effects once in a while. Cheers.. Paddy
in reply to Padder
Some beers are labelled in a similar way. Alcohol free, non Alcoholic and zero. Beck's Blue for example is 0.05 whilst Krombacher like ur wine less than 0.5. Therefore in a six pack equates to almost 3 units multiple by 7 days & dam near the old .gov guideline of 21 units. Here's one for the books GP told me off for drinking 7 tins of Coke zero. Caffeine & Heart was mentioned. I'm hitting on Coffee now, but then too much of a good thing. Can't win.
CocoChannel in reply to
There are two divided camps on here when it comes to alcohol free drinks.
I wouldn’t drink 0.5% beer or wine as I was alcohol dependent, and that amount of alcohol would concern me slightly. However, I’ll drink 0.05% beer occasionally.
It really is each to their own. If someone’s worried about alcohol dependence or has an existing health concern, then maybe even 0.05% or 0.5% isn’t a good idea.
Regarding the amount of 0.5% beer a person would have to drink to exceed the 14 unit weekly limit, the link below states 84 bottles.
getthedata.com/open-units/k...
Thanks for replying. I’m not alcohol dependent so not drinking at all isn’t really too much of an issue. I have AIH and stage 1 cirrhosis from that. I really don’t want to do anything to make matters worse. I have always been a healthy eater and drank a couple of glasses socially but not otherwise, but I thought if the non alc stuff was harmless it might be fun. I’ll be leaving it alone. Coffee is my new tipple! Thanks for your input. I appreciate your response. Best wishes Paddy
Padder in reply to
I hadn’t thought of it like that. Good insight. Thanks. I’ll stick to softies and coffee! But I’ll leave off the zero! Lordy you’re right. Can’t win! Coffee is good for the liver I believe! Thanks a lot for your reply.
Hi Padder, I tried it when I gave up alcohol 3 years ago, but it tastes dreadful. you will be disappointed. Soda and lime is my "go to" drink when I'm out with friends.
David
Padder, I have tried a few alcohol free wines and they all taste like fruit juice. It is a complete waste of money, belive me. The alcohol free beer on the other hand, tastes like beer, so if you want feel like drinking an alcoholic drink, 0.00% alcohol beer is much closer to the real thing.
I just want to say that this subject has raised its ugly head a few times on this site, and has caused some rather frosty responses. I for one, am rather passionate about leading a now zero alcohol life style. While some people feel it’s alright to carry on consuming alcohol, even if it is only 0.5%.
It is a well-known fact that alcohol as a substance is dangerous to the liver. It can enter the body in a number of different ways. It doesn’t matter how it enters the body it still to be processed and dealt with by your liver. If your liver is already damaged and is struggling to carryout some of it’s 500 different functions. Then you have to decided if you really think it’s worth risking any further damage just for the sake of a drink.
If your going out with friends, you’ll most likely be wearing some perfume, (or after-shave if you’re a fella) these contain alcohol (Ratio of Essential Oil to Alcohol in Perfume Making. A good ration of essential oil to alcohol for perfume making is 20 percent essential oils to 80 percent alcohol, so this alone will find its way to your liver. Then your drinking so called alcohol-free wine, which maybe 0.5% proof. So, already you have alcohol in your system.
At the end of the day it’s your liver, you’re life, and your choice. but please remember, those people with serious end-stage liver disease who go on to require a liver transplant. May well not be considered suitable if those people have been drinking alcohol-free drinks within the last six months.
These are just my own recommendations and personal advice. I know there are many out there who will disagree with me.
Good Luck Padder. (I'm sorry if I've come across a little hard here).
Padder in reply to
Hi, I don’t believe what you say is hard. I really don’t have an alcohol dependence so am fortunate that I can take it or leave it. It’s no hardship for me to leave it. I just thought it may be nice to bring a bottle to a party and maybe have a couple of what I thought were harmless glasses.. until I read the label. Then I was confused. I hear what you say about perfumes etc and I take yours and the other responses to heart. I’ll be sticking to a healthier option plus coffee. My new tipple! Thanks again for your caring reply. Best wishes Paddy
I eally woudn't get too hung up on these very low percentage alcohol drinks. There are many types of food that contain alcohol, some naturally occurring, so the chances of being able to avoid it altogether are zilch. The tiny amount in the occasional 0.5% drink will do no harm.
Hey, I have checked many a labels that says alcohol free only to discover its 0.5 percent so don't go near them. There is now a growing trend of 0.0 per cent beers out there which are fine and tastes ok with a curry for example Corbra Zero. I'll normally stick to elder flower presse topped up with ginger beer low cal when I'm out. I accept its pretty hard but I want to give my liver the best chance given I missed a bullet and have pulled around against the odds. Not found a wine yet and I don't think the brewers have either but given its the next big profit drive in terms of a trend it won't be long. I tend to watch for all alcohol in any product but it is like salt you have to read the labels very carefully. It can be done ! Good luck.
I steer clear of 0.5% products too, but as said above I will drink 0.05% beer occasionally.
I’ve said in the past that the 0.05% beer helped stop me drinking the real stuff, so it certainly has its uses.
But each to their own. If someone is concerned enough, then steer clear of alco free beers too.
Good to know. Thanks for that.
That sounds like a great, grown up drink. And safe too. Thanks. I want to be and stay as healthy as I can and I’m not prepared to risk getting worse! My liver is problematic through an illness I didn’t know I had until it was discovered by a chance routine blood test. I don’t mind binning alcoholic beverages. Thanks for the alternative ideas and the label reading advice.
I wouldn't bother, it tastes bloody awful.🤣🤣🤣🤣.
Some people must find it OK or the manufacturers would stop making it.
I’d much rather see bars and supermarkets increasing their range of such products as - like it or not - they are now a viable alternative to alcohol. Isn’t that a good thing?
Sorry Coco, I was purposefully not getting in to the politics of things. I do though agree that having a wider choice of non alcoholic products is a good thing and it's also good that this is now common place in many establishments.
I suppose I should add for the benefit of the original poster that the advice I had once cirrhosis had developed was to avoid the non alcoholic stuff also as it still contained some, albeit very low, amounts of alcohol. Just to be on the safe side really.
Also, it's interesting to see that the marketing department seems to have got their hands on the naming process for Padder's wine. I work with a chap who has his own micro brewery. Apparently all non alcoholic drinks are produced in the same way. They are brewed in the same way alcoholic drinks are and the alcohol is then removed afterwards, usually by the addition of some chemicals that do that job. So all non-alcoholic drinks are actually "de-alcoholised". It just looks like the marketers of Padder's wine have seen an opportunity to differentiate their product from the old reputations that came with the term alcohol free in the taste department.
😀 No worries. I just tacked the second paragraph on to my reply.
To be honest, alcohol free products take getting used to, so I know where you’re coming on. I won’t name products on here, but I only actually like one brand of alcohol free (0.05%) beer. The others range from tolerable to awful. As for the wine, I’m with you on that one.
Hahaha, no worries.
I have the occasional Becks blue and Seedlip Gin (absolutely no alcohol in this Gin) post transplant. I have ok'd this with my specialist. He is happy for me to do this, in fact it was he that told me about the Seedlip Gin. I can understand if people have a problem with alcohol and that non alco drinks are not for everyone, but as my specialist says, it has it's place in society. I am pleased to see that the younger generation are catching on to these non alco drinks and that's why more and more are coming on the market all the time. I can't say much for the taste of the non alco wine but the non alco drinks that I use I find the taste and low calorie aspect quite acceptable. It is very much a case of each to their own. Best wishes to all. Alf
Seedlip gun?!? GIN!! Lol
I saw the Seedlip gun advertised. Actually my daughter brought it to my attention. It is well packaged and quite pricey so I’m glad to hear it tastes good too! Something to look out for. Thanks Alf 😊
I work in the wine industry and was a member of the team who launched a range of non-alcoholic wines (red, white, rose and sparkling) several years ago.
To not make the subject too boring, I’ll say there is a technical and formal difference between non-alcoholic, alcohol free and zero alcohol beverages. Whilst this differentiation is clear with beers, when referring to wines it’s more complex.
When you come across 0,0%abv wines, most of these are fruit musts, NOT de-alcoholised wines. And consumers want the latter.
To produce a quality non-alcohol wine -attempting to conserve the aromas, flavour, body and tannins of a normal wine, the process consists of de-alcoholising real wine (usually between 11,5-14,5%abv). Either way of production -inverse osmosis, spinning rotating cones or vacuum destination- means that the alcohol has to be extracted, which will alter all the above. The end product will be flat, light and watery, the glycerin gone, and the lovely deep ruby colour of a nice red wine, turned into a pale see-through muddy reddish version of what it was.
Whilst white and roses manage to conserve much of their original style (making it easier to produce a 0,0%abv de-alcoholised wine), with reds it’s far more difficult. As this category is where most of the demand is, it’s necessary to produce a product that is as close as possible to a “regular” red wine, although it will be totally transformed.
Whilst not totally eliminating the alcohol content will help preserve the “weight” and body of the wine (the ideal is 0,5% - 1%abv), with a 0,0% this is virtually impossible. And even with the non-alcoholic versions (up to 0,5%abv or 1%abv according to each country’s regulations) they way to solve this is by adding RCGM (rectified concentrated grape must). RCGM will add body, “texture”, intensify the flavours and provide a mouth-filling sensation BUT re-fermentation is always at risk, and stability a challenge.
Therefore, if you want to stay totally clear of any alcohol, DON’T consume non-alcohol wines. Only 0,0% ones (usually 0,05% up to 0,1%). The other alternative, which is less boring and a little more enjoyable, is to go for the sparkling versions of white, rose and sparkling 0,0%. Bubbles add a bit of excitement and the drink doesn’t feel as boring or as flat as a “standard” 0,0% version.
Hope all this helps!
That’s a great help. Thanks for your very thoughtful and informative response allroad. It’s great to know there’s a choice. I’m going to my sons wedding soon and he knows I’m not to toast them in the usual yummy bubbly so he’s looking for alternatives. I’ll alert him to what you say. And thank you again.
I see nothing wrong with you drinking .05% if you wasn't depeneded on alcohol. Most doctors say No to it because they are scared you will go back to your old ways. Also, if you need a transplant down the road it won't keep you off the list because foods have more alcohol, however don't drink 10 of these beers but 1 or 2 won't hurt.
Cheers for that. I’ll probably stick to absolutely safe stuff for now though and see how it goes with blood tests etc over a period of time.
I'd opt for Ribena !
Lol.. tooooo sweet for me! My mom used to drink that tho.
Can even get sugar free or at least reduced sugar now. Love it hot in a mug in winter mmmmm !
Hey I am a big fan of AF wine. I was severely alcohol dependent and became very poorly but I started drinking Eisberg AF wine which is 0.0%. A lot of people don’t agree with it as it replaces an addiction but I know it’s not going to kill me like alcohol would. I did drink it a lot and it is a great replacement and helped me no end over the last 2 years. Now I have it as a treat like most people with no health risks. Enjoy it there are a lot of alternatives but my favourite anytime is slimline tonic with ginger cordial 😍😍😍😍
Good for you 👍 That’s no small feat to go from dependent to two years sober.
I was exactly the same, alcohol dependent and heading for health problems. The big difference at first was instead of drinking/needing four cans of real 5% beer a night, I found one or two cans of 0.05% beer did the trick and satisfied that terrible urge. Now I’ll have a can of 0.05% every couple of days or so. Like you, it bridged that gap for me between drinking and not drinking. Well done to you.
As an aside, whilst there have been countless studies showing that ex-drinkers who attempt to moderate their drinking invariably fail and end up drinking heavily again, I’ve seen no study showing alcohol free products lead to similar relapses.
Aww thanks I am proud of where I have gotten x I was detoxed in hospital as was so poorly and obviously had to stop. I used to worry about the amount of AF wine I drank but it worked for me and I have over the last few months come off if to a glass a day 😀. I now run and that’s my new addiction x. I did relapse at Christmas because I thought I could moderate but couldn’t x I now know drink isn’t for me but if the worse I can do is drink AF wine then I can live with that !!
Well done again! I would say naughty naughty for xmas, but I was still drinking then (just) too.
Running addiction? Be careful ☹️ I’ve had to get my knees seen by a physio and special insoles to prevent shin splints, and I’m only running 5K at a time ☹️ I didn’t run much with a hangover, though.
Ha ha funny as xx yeah I have been running on and off for a few years but when hit the bottle it all stopped !!! Piled on 2 stone and now got to shift it x. It wasn’t nice before Christmas as I was back on vodka all day everyday 😳😳😳. Decided couldn’t get off it alone so got help and 8 months on happy days x. God don’t know what I would do if couldn’t run 😂😂😂
Yikes! Vodka ☹️ Thankfully I never developed a taste for spirits. I reckon I wouldn’t be here now if I had. You’ve really done well to quit from that much alcohol. No more relapses, please. The likes of us can never drink a drop again. 🙂
Ll coco. Only 5 miles! That would be nice. Actually to be able to run at all would be nice!
5 miles? Just 5km ☹️
Never say never, ThreeSmiles. I only started with this fitness lark in November 2017. Prior to that, I was an obese (BMI 32) 48 year old and hadn’t run in 20 years.
It was trying to keep my diet to below 2000 calories a day that showed me there was no room for the 200-calorie cans of beer, so I cut down but when I tried to stop altogether, I was shocked how hard it was. I’d obviously become alcohol dependent.
Talking of calories, my 0.05% beer of choice has 70 calories and just over 3g of sugar. That’s pretty good, but other brands may have more sugar.
What’s km or miles between friends 😁. Anyway you know I can’t run 😁
Angus
Didn’t like the ginger cordial but enjoyed it with soda but then I was told that soda contains too much salt for my poor old liver. So ginger cordial with sparkling water for me!
Hi Cobwebs, ginger cordial is great with slimline tonic and ice 
Alf
I did try that (I believe it was on your recommendation!) but found the tonic too overpowering. Just checked the soda and it is only 0.1g per 100ml so hardly high in salt! But the ginger is lovely with sparkling water. And I actually don’t like ginger! Or, should I say didn’t!! Also, with bitter lemon. Tastes like an exotic cocktail. Well, sort of!!!
Hi guys yes I love ginger cordial with slimline tonic and couldn’t rave about it enough 😀😀. Thing is the cordial is high in sugar 🙄🙄 you can’t win can you !! I just have it weak and it’s great !!
Sounds great. You guys are coming up with some wonderful alternatives. Thank you.
Love all your positive replies to all the suggestions and information! It’s very refreshing to hear.. 😁👍
Hope you remain stable or, if possible, improve over time. Good luck!
Angus
Kind of you to say so.. thanks Angus. I hope to improve.. time will tell. It’s all so new and although severe AIH and early cirrhosis, I’m fairly asymptomatic so I don’t think the seriousness has quite sunk in yet. I’ll just keep taking the pills! Day at a time eh??
I see you had a transplant in 2018. That’s hard core! How’s it going? What was the underlying cause of your liver disease? Has the transplant changed your life? So many questions! Take care of yourself. Best wishes, Paddy
Hey up Paddy
Yes a day at a time indeed!
TP - “new” liver is Amazing 👍. Thanks for asking😁👍.
Couple of issuettes still ongoing BUT I’m here and enjoying life again. So it has indeed absolutely transformed my life 👍👍.
My cause was attributed to alcohol 👎🏻👎🏻 But I never had a biopsy to prove that or otherwise! To be honest I didn’t care what they put it down to as long as the end result - TP 👍 - was achieved yippee!!
Angus xx
Good on ya! Glad to hear it’s been a success story. Really pleased for you. 😁 Px
Anyone with Liver problems …. DO NOT DRINK ALCOHOL PERIOD.
Sounds like perfect sense. Thanks. I was saddened to hear about your struggle with alcohol and the unfairness of your diagnosis 8 years after you managed to give it up. But on a more positive note, your car looks fab! Glad to see you’re getting out and now. Look after yourself.
I have liver cancer.. not alcohol related..I drink occasionally and in the 11 years since being diagnosed no Dr has ever advised me that I can not drink..
I don’t have an alcohol related liver disease. I have stage 1 cirrhosis from a late finding of AIH. My consultant said there are very good reasons for refraining from alcohol when your liver has cirrhosis. As I do, sadly, have cirrhosis I’m erring on the side of caution. Thanks for the post. All the best, Paddy
Hi Paddy..I was replying to the post above that said DO NOT DRINK ALCOHOL PERIOD..as not everyone with liver issues needs to be tea total..
Anyway I hope you find a low/no alcohol drink you can enjoy whilst socialising xx
Depends on your relationship with alcohol
There are a few foods& drinks that natural contain alcohol due to natural fermentation such as natural fruit juices, bread as its produced via yeast fermentation with CO2, vanilla & other essences used as flavourings, live yoghurts
My husband drinks seedlip when out, although it is expensive it lasts a whole.
Hi Padder,
See what you’ve done!!!! Only kidding. It does stir up a hornets nest that question.
Before I became I’ll and started cutting down I started testing lo alcohol lagers and I did like a ice cold erdinger. However I did mention it to my consultant thinking I was doing well. He said well done for doing that but it’s a very very short step to having a normal beer from there so I stopped altogether.
Best not put temptation in the way and knowing my friends I could see them ordering the wrong one and me drinking it unknowingly. Wine would be a even easier mistake to make too.
Cheers Will.
I think you’re right. I’m going to steer clear for now at least, take my meds and see how the tests pan out in due course.. I’ve only just started this journey though so good to hear from others who have tried a few things. Thanks for posting.. and yes.. there are clearly varied opinions on this stuff!
Hahahahaha, just remember to duck after you hit post!!! It will be all good. Might take a bit of time but you’ll get there.
Thanks Willho..
Curious to know what you’ll end up drinking, Padder 😀 You’ve got a choice of 20 or so. Take it easy,
Hi Will, it’s obviously best to go with your consultant’s advice. It’s unfortunate that this topic tends to go haywire. In your case, these alcohol free (0.05 or 0.5%) products should be avoided, but for the likes of me and Happyluckymummyof2 (such a long username ☹️), I’d go as far to say they’ve saved us from serious harm.
Two camps - both are right.
I think that’s the problem right there.
Both are right. (depending on your individual circumstances)
I just decided to take the option out of it and it’s served me well thus far.
I can sit with anyone, drinking or not. It’s just a choice that I’ve made but I will never tell people what to do. Or not do in the case of drinking. Each to their own I guess, just not for me anymore. I just get amazed by people sometimes and how (can’t think of right word) staunch (will need to do) on one side or the other about drinking.
But heyho.
Happy Sunday everyone.
Thanks Willho.
I can see this topic brings out many differing views and so thanks to all who’ve shared their reasons for and against the de-alc wine bottle I was thinking of buying to take to the party.
After hearing good reasons for and against I’ve decided that for me, I’ll be leaving it alone. You guys have given me some alternative drink ideas for social situations that I’ll certainly try instead. Thanks all for sharing your views.
Hi I drink de alcoholised wine which is zero percent, my LFT’s haven’t changed. The only place I’ve found zero percent is at Waitrose, it tastes good and has fooled many friend lol. Enjoy the party
Hi Cat-B,
I am curious about what wine you found. Not sure we could even get it here in the US, but maybe We haven't really found a n/a wine that he likes.
Thank you and best wishes,
Mary
To be honest Mary I didn’t buy any. There is a choice of red, white, rose or bubbly but nothing I saw was 0.0% it was 0.5%. These de-alcoholised wines were all available at the local supermarket.
Hi Paddy,
This might be a question for your doctor.
I think the choice for n/a [non-alcoholic] beer or wine is based on a few things - 1] what country one lives in. 2] your doctor's opinion. 3] your "disease" ie- hepatitis, non-alcoholic cirrhosis, alcoholic cirrhosis, etc. 4] your own relationship with alcohol. and, I'd guess maybe other things.
We live in the US, my husband has alcoholic cirrhosis, was in liver & kidney failure in Nov. 2015.
Hubby's doctor allows him to have n/a beer & wine. We asked the doctor about it at least a year or more from the date of his liver failure. Since hubby was improving at every 6 month follow up and had given up drinking while in the hospital and has not gone back to the real deal, his doctor okayed it, but said if his blood work or condition stopped improving he would have to give up the n/a also. So far so good on that front.
I know many on this site do not think one should drink even n/a, and I respect that choice. I have noticed that not everyone on here has drinking problems since their cirrhosis has a different cause than over drinking. My hubby seems content with n/a and his liver doctor is still pleased with how hubby's health is - still tiny improvements at each 6 month follow up visit. So for him it is working.
I strongly believe that this is a question you would be better off talking with your doctor about, since your doctor, hopefully, knows all/most of your health issues.
Best wishes,
Mary
Thanks for that advice Mary. I’ll stick to soda for while, but I’ll check in with the doctor’s views when I see her. All great best.
Just in case you don’t scroll through all the comments!! My dietician said sparkling water not soda because of the salt content!
Hi Padder. I will just add what my husband's liver specialist advised and that was due to how very ill he was with alcoholic cirrhosis. Aswell as never drinking alcohol again, he was to also avoid non alcoholic drinks too as many were laden with sugar which can cause even more damage to the already sick liver. He recommended drinks with no added sugar and plenty of coffee without sugar. Thankfully he never had a sweet tooth so he managed ok during the 3 months he was off the booze with the help of his councellor.
While we're on the subject, let me tell you about kombucha tea, at least the bottled kind. I tried it in the store from the little sample cups, liked it, so I bought a bottle. I didn't realize it had fermented alcohol in it , and when I drank much more than was in the little paper cup, I felt so sick I threw up! 😩 It takes a lot to make me do that, I feel nauseous often but really have an aversion to vomiting that usually prevents me from doing it. Anyway, that's when I read the label and saw it contained fermented alcohol.
Wowee.. thanks for that word of warning. I’ll read the labels first.
Well to be fair, I tried to look up how much alcohol was in kombucha, and think it may have just gone past its "use by" date by the time I drank it, so probably just nasty tasting and not actually harmful. 😝
I've had no luck with NA/LA wine but there are some fantastic beers/ciders
Morrisons low alcohol cider is excellent as are Heineken 0% and Ghost Ship
Also join the Dry January and Beyond Facebook Group - nice people with loads of tips.
One of the low alcohol ciders in particular (in the interests of previous comments on earlier threads, I won’t name brand names) has huge amounts of sugar, about 50 grammes in a 500ml bottle. The recommended daily limit for free sugars is 30 grammes.
A couple of the beers have the equivalent of one teaspoon or less of sugar.
It is a very valid point that some of these products contain too much sugar.
Conversely one or two of the LA/AF beers are actually very low in sugar so it is wise to look at the labels. That said one label on a cider did not specify sugar content so I contacted the supermarket on Twitter - they said they would get back to me but never did.
It’s ironic that one of the lowest sugar drinks is real beer! Pity it has a few other nasties in it too ☹️
But yes, not all alcohol free drinks are high in sugar. You have to read the labels on most items now as sugar is used liberally.
Another reason this topic generates discussion is the alcohol content in other items. Orange juice as already mentioned can ferment to as much as 0.5% alcohol. Bread will have as much as 0.2% alcohol, and don’t even start on vanilla. It’s easy to avoid vanilla and orange juice, but how many people avoid bread in the UK? If the alcohol content of bread were an issue, this would be highlighted. It puts into perspective the alcohol content in 0.05% beer.
That sounds like a good idea. Thanks.
Wow.. so many traps for young (and not so young) players, Thanks for that. I’ll keep it in mind. Paddy
The sugar issue is across the board now with all food and drink, certainly not just alcohol free products.
I don’t even understand the guidelines. Supposedly the recommended daily limit of free sugar is 30 grammes. This is classed as sugar in tea or chocolate, etc, which is sugar you don’t need. But then there’s sugar in fruit and even carbohydrates such as bread and rice break down into sugar.
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