Looking for advice

[Redd2]

Hi All

I'm new here, Just looking for some advice, any help would be appreciated.

I've always drank too much, more binge drinking, sometimes going for months without drinking anything, but when I did drink it would be quite a lot in one night.

Anyway last year I was suffering depression and anxiety and was stupidly drinking more twice a week, around 40 units in total. Then over xmas drank a lot particularly xmas day and boxing day.

Then it began, the day after boxing became I'll with flu like symptoms, with nausea and diarrhoea as well. So I went to the doctors and had blood tests and my LFTs were raised, specifically alt 120, all others normal.

So I went for a ultrasound which came back liver increased echogenicity, with nothing about size or texture, spleen and all other organs normal. Had another blood test alt back down to 44, albumin normal, platelets normal. Doctor says it's as he predicted fatty liver, but as I'm still having symptoms would refer me to a gastroenterologist, but I'm looking at 3 months for that.

Obviously I've stopped drinking.

The symptoms I'm still having to me point to cirrhosis, and from what I've seen on the internet, my liver is already decompensated.

The symptoms I'm currently having are: Nausea, No appetite, Occasionally diaharea,Occasionally light brown stools, Indigestion, Hair loss, Terry's nails but the nail beds not completely white yet, still some pink an lunulae, Some nails slightly yellow ( doctor tells me can't be jaundice because bilirubin is low) Red blotchy hands, Dry skin & spots Abdominal pain and upper right back pain.

When I look at symptoms like Terry's nails and hair loss it's basically saying stage 4 decompensated, how can I get to that stage so quickly and with now normal blood.

I guess I'm just asking for advice from anyone who has been through similar.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Hidden]

Well done for giving up drinking thats a huge hurdle dealt with straight away.

Now you need to stop googling symptoms and scaring yourself to death unnecessarily. If you go to the liver trust website you will get far more accurate information.

If you must google, use only the NHS sites. You will also get plenty of advice on this forum from people who have gone and are going through what you are.

Good luck

Laura

[Redd2 in reply to Hidden]

Ok thanks for the advice Laura

Much appreciated.

[Popel in reply to Hidden]

I second Laura’s sentiments from using google as a way of self diagnosing.you are usually very ill with a decompensated liver.i also offer a well done for giving up drinking.and from here on in your liver can improve.untill you’ve got a definitive diagnosis from your doctor try not to worry to much and enjoy the weather.all the best .paul

[Redd2 in reply to Popel]

Thanks

[Nictesla]

As an Alcoholic I would say you were what we call a binge drinker, I was too until near the end of my drinking days, 8 years ago now. If you need support I recommend AA. I stopped once for 18 months and thought I had beat it on my own then one day I had a Bailys and I was back at it again. AA gives me the strength and encouragement I need and we are not weirdos either, ask anyone in AA about it. AA is not for wimps …...

[Redd2 in reply to Nictesla]

Yeah I was definitely a binge drinker, stopping drinking for me has not been a problem, but unfortunately I think it's to little to late.

Thanks for the advice.

[Nictesla in reply to Redd2]

I only got my diagnosis after going for HepC treatment or I would not have known ? I have other health problems that required liver test every 6 months and always good results and I was drinking like the devil. I stopped and now my liver is knackered … Bloody ironic if you ask me lol.

[Redd2 in reply to Nictesla]

Indeed. I feel like I've gone down hill & I've not touched any alcohol in months.

[Kev12564 in reply to Nictesla]

Sorry to hijack, but that’s a frightening tale of giving up for 18 months and one Baileys setting it off again. I’m “just” alcohol dependent with no health problems touch wood. Had zero alcohol in 2019 but certainly get the urge now and then albeit hugely reduced, and experiences like yours remind the likes of me to not even try that one drink.

[lynxus]

Hi Redd2,

I also have high ALT(66) ,Globulin is 38. , the rest are mostly OK.

I was also diagnosed with fatty liver probably 5 or 6 years ago now.

Personally, I would go with what the doctor tells you.

It may well be something completely different to what you are googling.

I see you have had a scan that came back as slightly more dense (probably the fat)

Quit the booze, get your sugar intake down and lose weight.

Also, keep going back if you are super concerned. Change doctors?

One thing I will say is, Google is not your friend!

I have spent days now googling, terrified that im about to die and my fatty liver is now deathly cirrhosis. Dont do it to yourself!

I guess the bottom line is, as always. no matter what the prognoses.. Stop booze and sugar. Get to a healthy BMI and check again then.. Not doing any of that is a sure fire way to mess it up more.

My understanding if that cirrhosis can take a long time to become worst case(10 to 20 years) of constant abuse.

There appears to be many stages before that. each progressively more difficult to fix.

Fatty liver is 100% fixable.. When it swells and starts causing scars.. apparently that is almost mostly fixable... Its when that is left for years (my worry) that it gets worse.

Book another appt with the doctor. Write down what you want to talk about and go through it again with them.

If they are not concerned.. Then you shouldn't be.

Just look after yourself.

(Not medical advise - just my experience so far)

[Redd2]

My doctor has said there is nothing more he can do at this point and to wait to see a gastroenterologist, which would be 3 months time, can't wait that long so I have gone private.

Your right about googling, its driving me crazy.

Thanks for the advice

[Hidden in reply to Redd2]

You will see the same doctor, they work for both. The difference is the furniture.

[Redd2 in reply to Hidden]

Definitely a different doctor, same hospital, the difference was waiting a week instead of 3 months.

[Hidden in reply to Redd2]

The doctors are both Gastroenterologists with the same experience. You have the choice and if you feel that you need a quicker diagnosis, that is what you are paying for. Good luck and I hope that you receive the best care.

[Redd2 in reply to Hidden]

Yeah I'am certainly not trying to pay for better care, I believe all the people in the NHS do a fantastic job.

Just seem been getting more ill by the day, and need to get help.

[Hidden in reply to Redd2]

Anxiety is a problem, maybe ask your GP about the issue. You could spend the money on decent counselling.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

....... And cups and saucers not a plastic mug or paper cup in sight !!

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Exactly $$

[Hidden]

You doctor is correct, you cannot have normal billirubin and also have jaundice as jaundice is caused by elevated billirubin. Light brown stools are normal and that is not what is meant by pale coloured stools. Pale coloured stools are when they are the colour of light grey to almost white. Its caused by a lack of bile in the digestion process. If your stools are brown at all than this isnt the case in your situation. Also not everyone with liver disease or cirrhosis gets this symptom. As for the a Terry nails, only a doctor can confirm you have that and again not a symptom everyone has nor is it conclusive of liver disease. If you had liver disease caused by alcohol you would definately have had AST being higher than your ALT if your bloods were out of range at all.

I can tell you for fact you dont have stage 4 cirrhosis. Its not somthing someone just thinks they might have. If you had stage 4 youd be in a hospital right now. Or at the very best at home with alot of meds and trips to the hospital frequently. Your doctor will assess your liver and you may very well have some degree of damage but you certainly dont have decompensated cirrhosis. I have cirrhosis and I dont have a single symptom you mentioned. So your symptoms do not equal cirrhosis definitively.. they can be caused many different ailments also.

[Redd2]

Hi Thanks for the insightful response

Ast isn't on the test from my doctors for some reason. I'm not sure my liver problems are just down to alcohol, I think it's a combination of alcohol, antidepressants and been over weight. Which is why I think I'm still getting worse even though I haven't touched alcohol for months. I asked my doctor about Terry's nails and he said he'd never heard of them, but I think he was just saying that so as not to make me anymore anxious.

From what I've read there are no symptoms until the liver becomes decompensated, just feel like I'm getting worse by the day.

Thanks

[Hidden in reply to Redd2]

I was end stage decompensated, it’s obvious to see in your bloods and appearance.

[Hidden in reply to Redd2]

You do realise alcohol will cause depression dont you? So taking anti depressants while you were drinking is pointless and dangerous. With alcohol now out of the equation along with a healthy diet, fresh air and exercise, your depression should diminish 😀

[Redd2 in reply to Hidden]

Yeah I realise that now Laura, can't believe how stupid I was.

[Hidden in reply to Redd2]

You're doing the right things now. Look after yourself and life will get better for you

[Redd2]

Hope your doing ok now.

Could you possibly tell me what to look for in my blood results.

Thanks

[Hidden in reply to Redd2]

The doctors are the ones who tell you, private or NHS. The blood results do not change nor does the explanation and/or treatment.

[Hidden]

Hello Redd2,

welcome to the forum where you will be able to get advice and support from many with first hand experience of living with or caring for someone with liver disease.

However, we must remind all members that this is not a medical forum and nobody here is qualified to make a diagnosis.

If you need any questions answered about your current health and progress of your liver disease, you should speak to your own doctor / consultant who will have intimate knowledge of his medical history and current circumstances.

As has already been suggested, please make full use of the British Liver Trust website, here all information is from trusted and validated sources. Trust have a dedicated helpline where you can speak to a qualified and experienced nurse.

britishlivertrust.org.uk/

Please don't be discouraged from continuing to use the forum as for many it is a valuable source of support, advice and community for those learning to live with liver disease.

best wishes,

Volunteer moderator

[Redd2]

Well I ended up in hospital today, after nearly passing out walking the dog, I was convinced something was seriously wrong. Told them I thought that it was to do with my liver.

Doctor said they couldn't find any evidence that I was in decompensated stage, all blood tests came back normal, and apparently my liver isn't enlarged and doesn't feel firm. Not sure if they can actually know that from an examination.

Think I'm actually losing the plot.

[Danubian]

I have drunk a lot in my life - am 54. Recently - I had very bad nausea to the point that I couldn't sleep and work for 3 months- terrible - I had diareah and/or soft stools, (also light brown like yours) belly pain, no appetite - lost weight. Was absolutely petrified of cirrosis. Spent the sleepless nights googling cirrosis and looking in the mirror for yellow eyes. Was diagnosed 23 days ago with anxiety disorder - and my liver absolutely fine. Anxiety can wreak havoc with your gastrointestinal system Redd2. So don't worry too much (like me) My only problem which I hope you or others can answer: The nausea went down significantly after I was told my body was fine and have anxiety disorder . Well ashamed to say - I have been drinking 40g of alcohol - 2 x 0.5 cans of 5% beer per day since then (for the last 23 days) , but have stopped today. I "needed" this because I was was worried about other health problems (which I do not have) and to put on weight and gain appetite - I have put on some kilos and look fine now! But today my nausea is returning, since today I started worrying that I could have alcoholic hepatitis or cirrosis after this drinking period. Is this possible? Thanks

[Hidden in reply to Danubian]

Stay off the alcohol..... it causes the anxiety and paranoia you are experiencing !

[Redd2]

I would think its highly unlikely that if you had it confirmed by relevant tests/scans and doctors that you don't have liver disease, that drinking 2 cans for 23 days is going to change that. But if your concerned go back to the doctors.

What I can tell you is that drinking alcohol isn't going to help with anxiety in anyway. The last 3 months have been the worst of my life, and although I was far from been an alcoholic, if I hadn't been drinking to the extent I was last year while going through depression and anxiety I wouldn't be in the situation I'm in now, even more depressed and anxious than I was. Unfortunately i may have still done a lot of damage to my liver, but i will have to wait for tests to confirm it.

I'd advice giving the beers a miss.

I know I will never be touching alcohol again regardless of the outcome.

[Danubian]

Thanks Redd2. Yeah I'm feeling better now.