Does Milk thistle help?

[Estiebargle]

I've never taken any herbal remedies.. Just wondering if anyone on here does?

Does it help?

[Bolly]

I don't think it will make any difference to someone with your level of liver damage, no. Though others may disagree. It might help people with little or no damage but you have to be knowledgeable about the source of the product and the amount to take, in the UK some is sold dilute in alcohol which kinda undoes any benefits!

[Estiebargle in reply to Bolly]

That's what I thought. Thank you Bolly.

[jimfearnley]

I think that as an absolute minimum, it would be unlikely to do any harm if you chose to use it. Apparently, results from tests consistent with methodologies accepted by conventional medicine have been positive (not sure to what degree), but as bolly suggests, milk thistle is probably not going to mitigate cirrhosis to any noticeable degree.

What is the situation in NZ regarding access to the new HCV treatments (assuming these are applicable to your genotype)?

[Pateo]

I have been taking Milk Thistle for a long time...first started to protect my liver from very high doses of Comfrey following spinal surgery (Lumbar Fusion) 15 years ago.

The Comfrey certainly worked well, in spite of two severe bouts post-op infection, the spine was rock solid after only 12 months when the metal-work was taken out

(because of the infection).

Normally metal work in spinal fusion would be left in at least two years...in fact the fusion was found to be solid but the metal bridge had come loose.....

From this I can surely say that the Milk Thistle also definitely protected my liver from the Comfrey, which I took in maximum dose as pure tincture.

Some time later I was diagnosed with HepC and started on Milk Thistle again.. with a short break when it became regulated and price went sky-high. I did not accept Interferon therapy as I was already quite ill with M.E. (another story)

Since being diagnosed with primary HCC a few months ago ( to have a right lobe hepatectomy very soon) I have been using the Silymarin pure extract powder which can be found on a well known auction website. I have taken various brands of Milk Thistle from various sources and never come across an alcohol tincture.

Silymarin is safe, it can do no harm. I take probably 3g a day.

I simply point out that:

1) I had Hep C many years undiagnosed and untreated

2) I had periods of excessive alcohol and drug abuse in my life.

3) I Have advanced fibrosis.

I ascribe to Milk Thistle and abstinence the fact that my basic liver functions are all very good and the Portal blood pressure is well within normal i.e. my liver is basically "healthy" and strong enough to withstand radical surgery.

I am also now taking Schizandra which is an ancient Chinese remedy said to support the liver and also Apricot kernels in a high dose. Not hoping to eradicate a 35mm HCC tumour, but at least to prevent followers.

It is a fact that that herbal remedies have been around for centuries; allopathic medicines just a very short time and already failing: antibiotic resistance, side-effect disasters etcetera.

If nothing else, taking herbal remedies can give one some sense of actively doing something and not simply being a passive victim of the disease process and the "experts".

Its a positive attitude which can only support the bodies built-in self healing system, and we know the liver is very good at that, but still it needs all the help it can get.

I'm just coming up to my 69th birthday, and I also need all the help I can get.

[chynablue]

Hi Estie, I had the same question.

My doctor recommended that I not take any supplements right now. I was recently diagnosed with fatty liver disease and PBC. My doctor said that anything I take must be filtered by the liver, so adding extra substances creates extra work for my liver. For now, I am taking only my blood pressure pill, Ursodiol (for PBC), and a Vitamin D prescription (my blood work showed Vitamin D deficiency). I am also following a low fat, low sodium, healthy diet, drinking plenty of water, and avoiding alcohol.

Before I was diagnosed and before I started Ursodiol, I stopped all supplements, no daily vitamin, and no alcohol for 6 weeks, as directed by my doctor. My ALT and AST decreased significantly, but they were still abnormally high.

Hopefully, with good diet and Ursodiol, my liver enzymes will come into the normal range in a few months. It could take a year. After that, my doctor said he will discuss extra supplements like milk thistle, but only after my blood test results have stabilized.

I don't know if this helps. Everyone is different, so I guess we all just have to make the best decisions we can based on what we are dealing with.

[Pateo in reply to chynablue]

The fact is that Milk Thistle does not make extra work for the liver, it actually supports helps the liver to do its work.

GPs do not know much, if anything about supplementary/alternative/herbal medicine or nutritional supplements.

It simply does not come in to their training.

[chynablue in reply to Pateo]

Sorry, Pateo, but that is not a fact. According to the American College of Gastroenterology, "One of the main functions of the liver is to break down substances that we take by mouth, including medications, herbs and supplements." So the liver does indeed have to break down the Milk Thistle supplement. patients.gi.org/topics/medi...

My doctor is not a GP or General Practitioner. He is a Gastroenterology Specialist who works in a practice with a Hepatologist who specializes in liver diseases. To say that they are not knowledgeable about supplements or nutrition would be very incorrect. They have dedicated their lives to focusing on this area of health and in helping patients with liver problems. They are well read and well educated, not robots that are unaware of the world because "it doesn't come into their training".

I will agree that some doctors are unaware and untrained, especially GPs. But my doctors actually recommended that I not take Milk Thistle or any other supplements at this time in order to give my liver a break. This advice was not based on ignorance.

Some research says that Milk Thistle helps the liver, and some research says that it does not. I prefer to go by articles on websites that are not trying to sell supplements.

According to the US National Library of Medicine, which is the worlds largest medical library, Milk Thistle has been proven "possibly effective" at best. nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/dru...

It may be helpful for some to take Milk Thistle, but its a decision where each person needs to weigh the risks and benefits. For some its the right thing to do and for some it is not.

[Pateo in reply to chynablue]

AS it happens I do know what "the main purpose of the liver" actually is.

Please have a look at the link I have posted below, I would recommend that you read it very carefully.

By the way, I am not attacking your obviously all-knowledgeable doctors, or particularly interested in the finer details of your case.

I am speaking generally and speaking from my own experience and personal opinion based on several years of using Milk Thistle....like other who have posted in this thread.

If I had left everything to the experts supposed to be looking after me, I am in no doubt that I would be looking forward not to an operation very shortly, but a funeral.

"Possibly effective" means not proven under the rigorous conditions imposed by modern science. Because Milk Thistle cannot be patented, there is not a lot of money to be made out of it, therefore it is not economical to set up the required trials.

By the same logic your doctor employs, you should not eat or drink anything except perhaps pure water, to give your liver a holiday.

Milk Thistle is also a food, and used as food in some parts of the world.

There is no shortage of robots who can't think for themselves and prefer to abdicate their own responsibility and leave everything to the " experts".

"Everyone is different, so I guess we all just have to make the best decisions we can based on what we are dealing with."

That includes our own ignorance as well as the blind spots of those in whom we put great and sometimes unwarranted faith.

smart-publications.com/arti...

[Pateo in reply to Pateo]

A further bit of copy and paste:

Milk thistle has also been known to be used as food. The roots can be eaten raw or boiled and buttered or par-boiled and roasted. The young shoots in spring can be cut down to the root and boiled and buttered. The spiny bracts on the flower head were eaten in the past like globe artichoke, and the stems (after peeling) can be soaked overnight to remove bitterness and then stewed. The leaves can be trimmed of prickles and boiled and make a good spinach substitute or they can also be added raw to salads.

Traditional milk thistle extract is made from the seeds, which contain approximately 4–6% silymarin. The extract consists of about 65–80% silymarin (a flavonolignancomplex) and 20–35% fatty acids, including linoleic acid. Silymarin is a complex mixture of polyphenolic molecules, including seven closely related flavonolignans (silybin A, silybin B, isosilybin A, isosilybin B, silychristin, isosilychristin, silydianin) and one flavonoid (taxifolin). Silibinin, a semipurified fraction of silymarin, is primarily a mixture of 2 diastereoisomers, silybin A and silybin B, in a roughly 1: 1 ratio. In clinical trials silymarin has typically been administered in amounts ranging from 420–480 mg per day in two to three divided doses. However higher doses have been studied, such as 600 mg daily in the treatment of type II diabetes and 600 or 1200 mg daily in patients chronically infected with hepatitis C virus. An optimal dosage for milk thistle preparations has not been established. Milk thistle, along with dandelion and other extracts, are sometimes referred to as hangover cures as the bitter tincture supposedly helps organs rid toxins after heavy drinking.

[Meaad in reply to Pateo]

I agree with you. We became a rats for experimenting medicine on our bodies. What doesn't make them rich they ask you to avoid .

[acjb007]

I believe it does. Taken it for years and I'm lucky to be alive. Took it in hospital when my liver was failing but it started regenerating . Not saying it's all down to milk thistle but I'm convinced it helped.

[dooley1]

My experience is similar to acjb007 I too am lucky to be alive after liver/kidney failure left me on life support but also started regenerating and I believe with the help of milk thistle it is now functioning quite well, I also saw a medical documentary where a women whose liver was failing fast after ingesting a poisonous fungus was saved after receiving an intravenous milk thistle infusion. Who knows for sure but it seems to be working for me.

[Alicja_mb]

Where is safe to buy this in the UK?

[cityman62]

No.If it makes you feel better-take it-the same applies to pop tarts.Any scientific evidence,in spite of hundreds of clinical tests?That's a no again.Sorry to sound so judgemental,but I like to deal in facts,rather than spurious third party stories/myths.The herbal 'medicine' industry does really rather well pandering to desperately ill people-particularly via the internet.In my book it all rather smells.....bad.

[cityman62]

I've read some of these answers with absolute horror Frankly,As a gardener,I've(possibly) got a better idea than most of herbs and the toxicity of many of them.You simply cannot self medicate and throw 6 or 7 of them on a daily/weekly basis down your throat.Unless your a qualified bio/chemist,your almost certainly making any condition you have,worse.And that's before you add in a few 'vitamins'into the mix.Any drugs-recreational or prescribed,will always generally exact a heavy price-no pain=no gain,you pay-always.And herbs will exact the same price-or even worse.

[Angelsww]

It is not only the efficacy or lack of that is risky with herbal remedies, it is the way in which they are produced.

They are not classed as a medicine within the Uk, therefore are not tested as such. All medication comes with fillers alongside the active ingredients, and there is not enough research done on these and the impact they have on the body. With the ease of importation, it is so easy to get hold of herbal supplements which can be harmful just because of what they are mixed with. There will always be some who advocate the use of herbs or alternatives, but there are also many who have suffered ill effects from using the same. Some of us with severely damaged livers even react to tested drugs when they come from different companies with a different mix of fillers so I for one wouldn't want to risk a herb when I don't know what it is packed with.

[Ped953]

It did worked for me. A few years ago my enzymes were very high and I had fat around the liver. I downloaded the book liver bible and followed the instructions on taking a GOOD brand of milk thistle and tried not to eat fatty food. When I went back to my check up after a year My gastro could not believe that the fat around the liver was not there anymore! I have both ultrasounds pictures to compare. He took note of everything I did! Right now I started milk thistle again after 8 years without using it. So yes it does works. You need the right potency is what I remember of the book. Hope it helps

[ZABohra]

Yes it really does . My father's doctor has prescribed him and he takes it. So I think there is no harm in having it.