Gamma gt high 212

[1960finas]

Hi I've had very high gamma gt for at least 15 years off and on ,had ultrasound 10 years ago liver enlarged and fatty,I'm now type 2 diabetic and also eschemia and been told I need stents. 15 years ago I was told you have 3 enzymes in your liver,if one is raised its okay if 2 will look into it I've looked into this and there's a link between high gamma gt and diabetes and also heart disease.am I right with the link cheers finas

[carmik]

it is never ok to have even one raised liver enzyme they did try and fob my husband off as he only had raised ggt. I forced the issue and they found he was cirrhotic. 4 years later he needed a transplant.

Not all patients follow the textbook route. Therefore any raised enzyme should have be investigated properly.

You need to ask why your ggt is raised and make sure you see a proper hepatologist. You are entitled to a second opinion. That is what I would do.

Good luck

[bantam12 in reply to carmik]

I have had raised ALP and GGT for 6 years and they can't find a cause for it despite all the tests. Sometimes it seems to remain a mystery.

[1960finas in reply to bantam12]

Hi I've researched raised gamma gt and there is a link to diabetes type 2 and heart disease

[bantam12 in reply to 1960finas]

Unfortunately many problems can be linked to others so very difficult to pinpoint definite cause.

Hopefully your scan will give you some answers.

[Bolly in reply to bantam12]

Bantam my hep told me a raised ALP combined with a raised GGT was a "bone" not liver problem. Do you have osteopenia or osteoporosis or any form of bone degeneration?

[bantam12 in reply to Bolly]

I have osteopenia due to hyperparathyroidism which is now cured but I had the blood test, can't remember what it was called, that tells if its liver or bone related and it came back as not a bone problem but nothing would surprise me anymore. I'm waiting for a letter from my Gastro about the next move after a recent US, he is still thinking its to do with the antiinflammatories I take for ulcerative colitis but been down that road before, sigh !

Thanks for thought, I will suggest it again at my next appt.

[1960finas in reply to Bolly]

Hi yeah wen both alp and gamma gt r raised its usually the bone.but ggt raised by itself is liver,which can then give you diabetes and then heart disease i now have both. The problem is Dr's treat the symptoms and not the cause,my symptom was i put couple of stone on. Sent for ultrasound told I have fatty liver and it was enlarged Dr asked if I drink much I drink very little if at all.he then says with only one enzyme raised it was OK and will keep an eye on it, if it was 2 enzymes they would have looked more into it.Over the year's approx 15 years it's raised not always 200 usually 140-160 So I think am ready for the scrapheap

[Bolly in reply to 1960finas]

I think in the case of a weight problem caused by diet / nutrition it's the patient who has to treat the cause. Also I think in many lifestyle conditions such as smoking, drinking, obesity (the ones the NHS are currently focusing on) its the patient who needs to take responsibility not the doctors. The docs can treat side effects from the condition but not the cause.

Docs have no magic pill for "fatty liver" if caused by diet/nutrition. They (and the British Liver Trust) can however offer advice on how to improve a lifestyle and hopefully improve the fatty liver. Diabetes can cause fatty liver, if the diabetes is lifestyle triggered then it's the patient who can deal with the cause. If it's genetic (is type 2 genetic ever.) then I guess there's not much one can do about your genes, doctor or no doctor.

[1960finas in reply to Bolly]

I don't smoke,drink very little about 8 pints a month have correct BMI since I was told about the fatty liver, no history of diabetes in my family, there's history of heart disease my parents, none of my siblings, my issue is that I was told one enzyme raised is OK but if 2 raised will investigate that's the problem. liver problem 15year diabetes 3year heart disease 4 months

[Bolly in reply to 1960finas]

I understand your disappointment that the doctors didnt act 15 years ago, but its not too late to act now. Its quite possible that the diabetes and the fatty liver are linked. If you can help your diabetes with diet then that might have a side effect of improving the 'enlarged and fatty liver' before it turns into something more troublesome.

[1960finas in reply to Bolly]

Thanks I'm getting ultrasound next month I can only wait and see where I go from there hopefully things might not be too bad to be honest for the last 4 months I've been taking apply cider vinager,lemon, cinnamon,cayenne pepper,and ginger in a drink twice aday it's ment to help fatty liver

[Bolly in reply to 1960finas]

Hi again. Will this ultrasound be at the same hospital where you had the last one 10 years ago. Ultrasounds are ok, but are even better if they can be compared with a previous one to see how things have changed.

This is what the British Liver Trust website says about the change in the way doctors view NAFLD now, compared to probably how they viewed it 10-15 years ago when you first had a diagnosis.

"Until recently NAFLD was considered to be rare and relatively harmless. It was not thought to progress to chronic (long-term) or serious liver disease. For most people, a fatty liver can remain free of inflammation and they will experience few symptoms.

However, for an increasing number of people, the effects of having fat in their liver, over a long period, may lead to inflammation causing scarring (fibrosis). In some people this can progress to a potentially life-threatening condition known as cirrhosis"

So in a way one cant blame the docs for not being bothered, for 10-15 years ago medical research suggested NAFLD was not something to worry about/treat/monitor. Its only more recently they realise it can develop into NASH, which is more serious.

So there is a long list on the BLT page of who is most at risk of NAFLD, and most of the risks are not applicable to you, apart from perhaps:

1) have insulin resistance

2) have type 2 diabetes

3) have hypertension (high blood pressure) .... i dont know if you do but you say you have heart problems

4) have hyperlipidaemia (too much cholesterol and triglyceride in their blood) . again dont know if you do, have you had your cholesterol checked?

So what we dont really know is which came first.... one or more of the above.....which may have gone undetected, or the NAFLD. Its usually one of the above that causes the NAFLD, not NAFLD causing the above.

[1960finas in reply to Bolly]

Hi my blood pressure is really good usually 130s/70s also my diabetes is diet controlled and blood sugar levels r in normal range my cholesterol is 5.1 my gamma gt has come down from 212 to 157 that's what it does year on year

[Bolly in reply to 1960finas]

OK so remind me where we are with the liver worry.

You have a consistently elevated GGT over many years.

Labtestonline says "Elevated concentrations may be due to liver disease, but they may also be due to congestive heart failure, drinking alcohol, and use of many prescription and non-prescription drugs including nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs), lipid-lowering drugs, antibiotics, histamine blockers (used to treat excess stomach acid production), antifungal agents, anticonvulsants (seizure control medications), antidepressants,"

We rule out the alcohol, yes.

How have you been over the years with medication such as those listed above. You say you have "eschemia" is this cardiac ischemia or angina? From what I understand from looking at research papers on Pub Med, the heart disease causes liver abnormalities but these would show all LFTs out of range including GGT, not just GGT.

Going back to your original post, are you saying you feel the mystery cause of the elevated GGT has caused cardiac ischemia.

[1960finas in reply to Bolly]

Hi I've just been diagnosed with cardiac ischaemia 4 months ago, type 2 diabetes 3 years ago, I do have asthma and take ventolin my diabetes and asthma really well under control I really do have a good diet and have for 35 years I really don't understand why I'm having these problems

[Zelda5 in reply to bantam12]

Hi Bantam,

What did your biopsy show if anything? Did they check for AMAs or ANA antibodies? If you have one autoimmune disease already you can be prone to get more. PBC is often associated with high ALP and GGT as Ralph said below and in the early stages, biopsies can show a false negative due to sampling error (biopsy not taken in diseased part of liver).

[bantam12 in reply to Zelda5]

Hi Jean43

Biopsy showed nothing, I raised the point that a biopsy can miss the problem but the Hep said not !

As far as I'm aware I had the antibody tests some years ago but i don't have those results, I will have to check on that.

My Gastro has gone down the road of PSC rather than PBC mainly I think because of the colitis link.

It is difficult to know what is going on with other chronic problems muddying the water.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[1960finas in reply to carmik]

Thanks for your reply,I'm having a scan in the next few weeks, this i think has given me diabetes and heart problems I think my Dr's have let me down

[Hidden]

evening

A raised GGT with an ultrasound showing "enlarged and fatty" is cause for concern, this should have been investigated 15 years ago and a plan made to try and get rid of the fat and follow ups.

I have seen ALP and GGT raised in people with Liver disease, but its usually been PBC.

Since you have evidence of your Liver struggling via ultrasound I think its a reasonable conclusion to think the GGT goes together with this or atleast partly. GGT is in the bile ducts, so it appears the fat is damaging your Liver and has been for along time.

[1960finas in reply to Hidden]

Hi mate thanks for your reply If u put a search in for link between gamma gt and heart disease and also diabetes u will see the connection, Dr's have known for years

[Hidden in reply to 1960finas]

I know that, but fatty Liver is Stage 1 Liver disease, it could be adding to bloods atleast.

I would not accept what is going with you after that ultrasound. For fat to show on ultrasound it has to be pretty well established .

I think you have been treated carelessly