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Slow and knackered today - and I need some advice

Slow and knackered today - and I need some advice

First of all, I thought I would flash my Run Mummy Run starry leggings at you. I don't wear them often as they aren't as good as the Sturdy by Design ones at hiding the support on my left knee - as you can see from the picture.

Ok, today was a struggle. My legs were heavy, I knew when I set out I was tired, and my chest is congested. I'm allergic to one of the dogs, and he's moulting heavily at the moment. It really affects my breathing despite using my inhaler before a run, and i'm coughing up gunk the whole way round a run. I couldn't make up the time today even on the downhill bits. I wonder if one reason I shaved 10 minutes off my 10k time at Blenheim on Sunday was because I was out of the house and away from the dog hair for two hours before running and my chest had cleared - running seemed effortless at least for the first half to two thirds of the course, instead of my usual struggle to get going. I have to seriously ask myself if I'll manage a half marathon next year if I'm struggling like this.

Having said all that, when I checked my stats on my watch, my VO2 Max and performance rating had improved. Is this because I was running more slowly? I've been pushing myself faster lately. should I go back to slower running, keep pushing the faster speed, or alternate the runs and do some slow and some faster, or just run at whatever speed my chest, amount of sleep etc allow me to?

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I just run at what I feel comfortable at on the day :)

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thanks mike. i tend to do that too, but of course it makes a difference when you're in a public event with cutoff time.

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VO2max will increase with fitness... but I don’t see how your watch could tell, needs a scientific test as per the one in the 6 minute fitness link earlier. I’d put as much faith in that as maximum heart rate... but it’s a guesstimate that does show improvement

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I realise you need to be on a treadmill with an oxygen mask to get a proper VO2 Max reading, but it IS an indicator of fitness level on the watch.

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For sure... fitness is rising which is I’d say expected... these watch companies do like to jump on the buzzwords, but it is measuring progress.

Treadmill is optional though lol

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I think the Garmin is pretty comprehensive. Most of the stats are useful.

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Yes they are... just some have dubious titles... they are measuring something and that something is useful, whatever it actually is.

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The 10k race on Sunday gave a VO2 Max reading along with the chip time, loosely based on age (it grouped myself and my daughter as senior females, and there is 33 years between us!) so i have NO idea how they worked it out!

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Yes, though I believe VO2 isn’t one of the things that keep dropping forever... but there should be a big difference in 33 years I’d have thought. For some it doesn’t rise so much with other measures of fitness though... some of the science is stupidly complicated and then along comes someone that doesn’t fit... doctors always learning.

I’m off for 3k on a running track later... not stood on one for 30 years let alone run. Things have changed a lot... but the basics remain, brain, legs, spikes, go. Gonna be my first tech free run in adulthood.

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enjoy!

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I agree with Mike see how you feel which is what I do now or maybe run faster on your short runs and just slow it down on the longer runs?

Im impressed you have a dog you allergic to !😀

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Thanks amanda, you and Mike are bearing out my own feelings. Haha, yes, the dog - well he's nearly ten now so a bit late to re-home him! It took a while for me to realise I was allergic to him, and it's only really been a problem since I started running. I guess I'll have to stick it out till he snuffs it!

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Bless him do anti histamines help?

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I can't take them, they affect me really badly. i have an inhaler just for before a run, and it helps. I went to see the asthma nurse earlier this year, she tested me and said my readings were really bad and to come back in the afternoon for further tests. I went back after walking around for several hours and the readings were normal, in fact on the high side of normal - being away from the house had cleared my chest.

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That’s a shame Flick - have you tried the different types of antihistamines? My OH and I both seem to get on better with different ones. (I use Loratadine, he uses Cetirizine. The other one does nothing for either of us, so we seem to react quite differently to them.)

Seems such a shame to be affected so badly by a furry family member. As finding the culprit a new family isn’t an option, is there anything you can do to stop the hair allergens getting into your lungs? Some people seem to swear by those air ioniser things for helping? Or would something as crude as wearing a mask with a filter of some sort in for a couple of hours before running help? They also do some sort of thick gel stuff for hay fever sufferers to put under their noses to help trap pollen... Sorry, may all have been tried and found useless, but just trying to think aloud...💗

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Gosh, I’ve never looked into it tha5 deeply. Perhaps I should. It wasn’t more than an annoyance before I started running.

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Im thinking that wearing a mask at home may freak the poor dog out 😂

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Hopefully shock my partner into not snoring too!

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😂😂😂

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Fantastic wardrobe you have Flick of nice bright 🔆 leggings😊. Good time for your 5k run🏃 today. As far as that HM you are thinking of running 🏃 next year, perhaps you should get medical advice from your doctor, it will depend how you feel after running shorter distances. 🏃😊

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My GP did a battery of blood tests, ECG etc recently because of my faintness in the heat when i forgot to take fluids on one run. Everything was normal, blood count 15.7, etc. She didn't expect to find anything. She runs herself and has encouraged me to run. Back in the summer I was fine. Ran over 12k uphill and down dale with less tiredness than my 5k run today, could have kept going, and that was in 27 degrees of heat. I ran without tiredness and at a good pace in the 10k race on Sunday. So i don't think it's a matter if whether i can do it, but whether i should keep the faster pace going or slow down.

Haha, yes, the leggings. I would like to claim it's so i get seen by motorists, but i have to admit i'm just addicted to lurid lycra ;)

Do you think that's a good pace for 5k? It isn't my fastest, and it's barely faster than the 10k race on Sunday.

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Maybe it's the weather? I've been really slow recently, or have you been eating more cake like me? I think cake slows me down! Lovely leggings, they are just ace.

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My energy went like a candle had been blown out the day the heat wave ended. I’m just not a cold runner ☹️

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Me neither. Hmmm, don't know the answer without moving continents.

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Pray the beast from the east gives us a miss this winter

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Thanks for the quick reply Flick, now I understand your situation, that is a reasonable pace for a 5k, of course if you were wanting to run a sub 30 minute 5k you might be a little disappointed, but I don't think that you were wanting to do that, I just sense that you you were a bit disappointed that you felt more tired than you were on Sunday.

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It's more than that. I have a real problem with tiredness that comes and goes, sometimes lack of sleep when Mr I don't Snore has a louder than usual snore fest and breaks through the earplugs, and recently because of the dog and my congested chest. What I was really wanting to know was whether to slow down or keep up a faster pace, given that I want to prepare for an HM next year. I don't think the problem is medical as I was running more effortlessly in the summer when the dog wasn't moulting as much and i was sleeping better. The question isn't whether I should aim for an HM, but how to manage it given the handicaps I have.

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Tell Mr I don't snore to take some kind of medication to stop snoring so loudly as you are not getting enough sleep. If you could get more sleep you would not feel so tired. You could take drastic measures and ask him to sleep on the sofa in the main living room, you do need a good uninterrupted sleep like all runners do.

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My VO2 max estimate improves with short, slow, aerobic runs. It went down again with the half at the weekend, but hopefully should go up again if I get a little lunchtime run in today. It's fickle, and kind of illogical I think to always penalise me for doing a high effort exercise. 😕

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Thank you, that's really useful to know :) x

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I was going to say exactly the opposite, in that I usually see it go up after a bit of sails to the wind interval sprinting, as long as it is sustained over at least 500m, so I assumed the higher the heart rate and faster the speed then the better the related performance. ie the ability to process and consume more oxygen over a given unit of time relates directly to speed.

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It’s odd isn’t it, because mine went up today when I throttled back and ran behind my usual effort. I think it thinks you’re fitter when your heart rate zones are more even, which mine were today.

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That does jog my memory, pun excepting. I recall something about it being to do with consistency and time to recover.

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My VO2max goes up with short faster runs. It went down during my marathon training because I was at "run all day pace" on long runs.

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That is weird because I’m getting the opposite. But then I’m s distance runner, not a sprinter, and don’t get into my stride for at least 5k.

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I don't think I can really answer your question- I just run however I feel at the time - go with the flow! - and try not to worry about slower times - if I feel sluggish there is usually a reason for it and a run is a run as they say! I can't believe you're allergic to your dog though! That must be a struggle. :) xx

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Thanks. I have always run as I felt so agree with that, but if I am training for HM I suspect that will have to become more structured. And yes I am 🤨 all my dogs up till him were hounds and they didn’t affect me. He’s a collie spitz or husky cross and has a fluffy, greasy undercoat ☹️ Xx

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Ooh I sympathise with the dog allergy thing - does it mean your next one will be another hound?? 🐕 I guess structure is the way to go for the HM. But I also think that you can only do what is comfortable for you - it’s upping the distance but keeping a steady pace maybe? Sorry to be no help but I love your leggings!! Xx

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Im not sure what I will do dog wise. I will be in my eighties by the time Isha my lurcher goes, if she lives to sixteen or seventeen, and the rescue organisations don’t like giving dogs to people that old because they think you’re too,old to exercise them properly. I might take on an elderly one that needs a home for its twilight years.

And I love the leggings too, but they aren’t as comfortable as the Sturdies and they show where my knee support digs into my thigh Xx

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Taking on an elderly dog sounds like a most rewarding experience. xx

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Me too. You can end up done in by time Race day arrives I have no,idea what v02 max is. Sounds like a carpet cleaner 😊

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I love that. Carpet cleaner! It’s a measure of how efficiently your body oxygenates your blood ( or something), and therefore your level of fitness. Fitness watches give an approximation that you can follow to see if you are gaining or losing fitness, but it is only an estimate as, properly done, you should be running to the limits of endurance on a treadmill, with an oxygen mask and other apparatus

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lol.. it so does hehe.. made me chuckle that did :)

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Yeah but ya know, all this worrying about heart, pace, vo2, running form etc etc will make you anxious. Just hang loose and run And have fun 💪😃😁🏃‍♀️

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Says marathon woman! 😊 But my usual philosophy, and vo2 max is just a bit of fun, an indicator and makes me smug as it gives my fitness age as 52 😂 However, if I’m going to tackle a half marathon next year, I think I need to pursue a bit more of a disciplined approach than my usual floating through the landscape feeling one with nature approach - or did I imagine reading about people going into HM training mode? It’s all a mystery to me 🤪

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Doing a bit of work on the upper body at the gym or at home is a good idea along with a bit of walking cycling swimming or whatever. You call it floating through the landscape but you’re running trails etc so you’re already doing the work 😃💪👍🏃‍♀️ Running hills and trails as you do is perfect training right there! You enjoy it so why worry 🤷‍♀️

Racing is FUN ! 😁🏆😎🎖🏃‍♀️

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Yes it is fun. I so enjoyed last Sunday's that ive entered another in the same place on the 21st. 😊😊😊 Walking I cant avoid as I don’t drive plus have two large dogs!

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I walk everywhere and walk dogs. It’s all good! 💪😃

I’ve got a half marathon on 21st We”ll exchange positive vibes 🙂

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Yes, walking is good, especially round here where it’s all up and down. Yes, definitely a good vibes exchange. Where is your HM.?

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Chesterfield 😃. Really looking forward to it. The main signage about road closures started going up today, and we got a flyer. It’s happening 😁

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Brilliant. good luck. i think it's the Oxford half this weekend. I wish I was running in it, but hopefully next year.

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I was slower on my run yesterday too Flick. I'm sure my legs were tired but I'm also certain adrenaline pushed me on Sunday to run slightly quicker! I run quicker with others too than when I'm alone too but I have quicker paced friends!

I'm going to go back to running for the enjoyment of running for a bit and chase distance over speed.

Overall though my pace improved from an average of 7.5 to 7 ish just by running distances 3 times a week. I didn't do much interval training in the end or hills. So I would say run at a happy pace - my barometer is f I can talk or sing whilst running! - and just enjoy upping your distance. You can do a half Flick. You did the 10k in Blenheim! It's all just slow and steady xx

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Thanks Claire. I think you’re right about running faster with others. It seemed so effortless on Sunday!

I spent the summer increasing distance, though I didn’t get further than 12k because of the nature of the toads round here, anything much over 10k and you have to go much further or else go round again, and I hate going round again! But I was running a lot better in the summer and was less tired.

And thank you for the encouragement about doing a HM. Xx

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Gosh - they sound scary amphibians 😂

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And on a more serious note when I was last properly running a decade ago then my shift from 10km to 10 miles only worked due to 1) hills - repetitive hills, luckily Greenwich park has short sharp hills galore and that paid dividends on the far flatter great south run course; 2) the runners world midweek interval training sessions. A midweek short sharp sprint session focussed on speed not distance, pushing myself to my max really added to strength and stamina - I guess it would be called HITT nowadays, but whatever those 30 min sessions when I was sprinting between lampposts in the dark probably added as much as the long weekend runs.

Keep up the good work

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I live in Chipping Norton! There is no direction in which i can run, no matter how short a distance, without encountering hefty hills!!! LOL! I'm pretty sure that's why I shaved 10 minutes off my 10k time for the Blenheim race - the hilly bits were tamer than those at home. Interesting you mention the short sprint runs because i started on that about a month ago and almost immediately my average pace improved - partly because i realised I hadn't been pushing myself at all and hardly ever ran out of breath. It's all a learning curve and a far cry from the carefree running in my late teens when I didn't even have anything remotely suitable on my feet - except the many occasions when i ran barefoot.

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Time to bin the Dog and The Mr I Don't Snore - drop them off at the nearest recycling site as you run past, freshly energised......

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Haha I think you just gave me the most useful answer 😂😂😂

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Not sure I can add to much to what has been said already, the usual mix is probably a shorter faster run and a long slow run plus a 5k or what ever distance you want to do at a medium pace would give the right mixture .

Running all runs at one pace would probably result in your body adapting to just running at that pace, which I can vouch it does over time ..

Of course it depends on your goals I.e distance speed and pace.

As for VO2 it isn't something I really have any knowledge so unable to comment ..

Everyone has their own view on stat's etc , I guess I tend to more on the side of how I feel now as a result of running and being fitter and healthier

Ooh forgot to say great leggings too 😊😊

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Thanks Rob. I take on board what you say about not running the same pace all the time, but it hasn't happened so far as i have a mix of run lengths and each has a different pace.

Ah, yes, the leggings! A bit sober for me ;)

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I like your definition of sober 😆

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LOL!

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Love the lively leggings Flick! 😍 My App gives me variation in types of runs. Some runs are just 15 minutes. But, I sometimes do a guided alternative if I don’t feel like doing the suggested run. So I’d say listen to what your body wants to do and go with it. You can always adjust and move things around. That’s what works well for me anyway. Enjoy!! 😁😁❤️

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Thank you, though I think have to look at being more structured at least sometimes now, given that I’m working towards a half marathon. Having said that, I’ve done no serious training yet and run 10k plus distances quite regularly. I think living in hilly Chipping Norton has been more than adequate training, given that there is no direction I can take where I’m not soon going up a fairly steep slope.xx

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Aaah I see Flick! 😲 Ignore me! I didn't realise. Good for you too! 😍 Maybe one day for me too eh? 😲😂 Happy training!❤️

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I wouldn’t dream of ignoring you, and what you said about listening to,your body is a very sound suggestion xxx

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Thank you. 😍 I do try to do that. Just not too much listening of the head bit! I'm sure the body will kick in with the goodies when you need it Flick! Best wishes! You'll be amazing as always! 😁❤️

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You are lovely 😊 xx

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🤗❤️

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Smart leggings, nice legs!

You've done really well lately what with the 10k, so doesn't matter does it..😊

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Erm .. yes it does! I’m aiming for a half marathon next year 😊

The leggings are quite restrained for me 😂😂😂

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You're allowed an off day! And I know the leggings are restrained for you!😂

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Thanks on both scores x

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I think your plan is sensible. It is good to push but this also does make us tired, so in my book the next couple of runs would be very slow and comfy. Remember you did a 10k on Sunday and your body will be tired :)

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Thanks ju-ju that’s really helpful. I guess this is all a learning curve. Although I’ve run 10k plus a lot of times now, that was my first public one and I guess you have to factor in the high you get after, plus I did it quite a bit faster than ever before. Well, I’ve got another public10k in just over two weeks time, so better sort myself out😊

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exactly..... give yourself a breather and take the next few runs slowly and gently and next week you will be back on form...

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Fingers crossed 😊 x

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I can’t answer your questions Flick bu I just had to say ‘I love those leggings ‘ 🏃‍♀️👏

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Lol, I thought you might😊

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I think your reply to ju-ju answered it for you. Next year is still a way off (even if the xmas decs are going up already!!) so easing back for the next couple of runs won't affect the outcome and will give you time to recover - and be in good form for the next outing.

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Yes 😊 thank you x

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As Ju-Ju said, you were bound to have some of that adrenalin-filled Blenheim run still in your legs this morning - and as you said, your allergy was playing up. So taking the two together ….. ;-)

You'll get to your HM bit by bit as long as you want to. But maybe one longish run and one shorter (max 5k?) a week rather than trying to stick to 3 runs a week? The regime has got me running further, faster and easier than I've done for years :-) - but ye gods, I'm knackered all the rest of the time :-( . It must be an age thing …..

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Oh! I’ve been running three to five times a week. Back in the summer it was effortless, but the dog’s hair was staying more attached to his body then and Mr IDS was hardly keeping me awake snoring, and I found the heat energising. You’re right about the age related knackered bit. The suggestions of gym work on top send me to sleep just contemplating them! I really don’t want to cut back my running frequency though. I enjoy it too much and mustn’t lose sight of the fact I began running again for the joy of running: public races and contemplating half marathons are just fringe benefits.

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