flu and covid vaccinations and back pain

[Nuthatch]

Had both this morning - my flu arm is really sore, covid arm is fine, but my back is aching horribly. Could it be connected?

[Margo]

yes

[Nuthatch in reply to Margo]

Thought so - even worse today. Just about to drag myself and dog to the park having given up on work for the day

[walk21]

If anything at all is wrong with me my back always joins in!

[OIMum]

I had similar experience after mine last year

[Frodoles]

I was advised to take paracetamol before vaccination and again after with 6 hr gap. That seemed to help. I will be upfront I am not having anymore. I feel enough is enough and the Office of National Statistics had published a breakdown of deaths from COVID. It shows more people who had the vaccination died than those who didn't. Was enough for me. But of course it's a personal choice.

[MnMTwo in reply to Frodoles]

I’ve searched but can’t find a ONS report comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated deaths.

Could you provide a link please.

[Frodoles in reply to MnMTwo]

Next release:To be announced

Release date:

25 August 2023

Age-standardised mortality rates for deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) by

vaccination status, broken down by age group. Deaths occurring between 1 April 2021

and 31 May 2023 in England

Hope that helps. I have the pdf but can't seem to download it. If you put the date of the report and the title Deaths occurring. . .etc . hopefully you will find it. You can also see comment on YouTube - Dr John Campbell. His latest video is announcing a debate on the matter later in October. Will make an interesting watch! This had been asked for over the last 12 months 20 times! Eventually it is happening.

[Met00 in reply to Frodoles]

I've just found the report you refer to and wonder whether you're misunderstanding the statistics. The main points are (see ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation... ):

"Monthly age-standardised mortality rates (ASMRs) for deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) have been consistently lower for all months since booster introduction in September 2021 for people who had received a third dose or booster at least 21 days ago, compared with unvaccinated people and those with just a first or second dose.

The ASMRs for deaths involving COVID-19 have been consistently lower for all months since fourth dose or extra booster in spring 2022 for people who had received at least a fourth dose or extra booster at least 21 days ago, compared with unvaccinated people and those with just a first, second or third dose.

The ASMRs for first and second vaccine doses have been similar to those for unvaccinated people from March 2022 onwards; however, the confidence limits are wide for these groups because of lower populations in these vaccination statuses."

I've clicked on the link to the actual data and note that you have to look at the Age-standardised mortality rate column to get a clear picture. It's very easy to use raw data to prove anything, but the data needs to be understood (a job for a qualified statistician) in order to make any inferences.

[Frodoles in reply to Met00]

What was the date of the report you looked at? I don't think we are looking at the same one.

[Met00 in reply to Frodoles]

25th August 2023. There's a summary, with the points I've quoted, and if you scroll down, a link to the actual data, "Deaths by vaccination status, England". I've had to edit my link in my post above, because when I clicked on it, a 404 unknown page came up! It seems to be working now.

[MnMTwo in reply to Frodoles]

Thank you for replying.

I actually wanted the link so I could read it myself.

Seems Met00 has provided that.

[Sunseaandsand in reply to MnMTwo]

The BBC radio program More or Less looked behind these statistics on the 30th August.

In summary they found that the average age of the vaccinated was 53 versus 34 for the un-vaccinated.

Unsurprisingly then there were more deaths in the vaccinated because of the age difference.

They also looked at excess deaths.

For the vaccinated 598 thousand was expected from before covid and 531 was recorded, showing slightly lower deaths.

For the un-vaccinated, 57 thousand pre covid and 110 thousand actual, nearly double.

If you listen to the program, it is the second article.

[Sunseaandsand]

The BBC radio program More or Less looked behind these statistics on the 30th August.

In summary they found that the average age of the vaccinated was 53 versus 34 for the un-vaccinated.

Unsurprisingly then there were more deaths in the vaccinated because of the age difference.

They also looked at excess deaths.

For the vaccinated 598 thousand was expected from before covid and 531 was recorded, showing slightly lower deaths.

For the un-vaccinated, 57 thousand pre covid and 110 thousand actual, nearly double.

If you listen to the program, it is the second article.

[josephinius1]

All I can tell you is that I'm unvaccinated, am just recovering from my second round of covid, which, like the first, wasn't that bad. Don't want to argue statistics, etc. but it does seems statistics can be manipulated to make them say whatever people want them to say, and the only person I know who died from/of/with covid was fully vaxxed and boosted. Meanwhile, "everyone" it seems is getting it again, and some cases are very unpleasant, despite the alleged mildness of the current variants. The whole thing pisses me off.

[Cheeseand in reply to josephinius1]

Quite agree. Had the first round of vaccines and boosters but no more.