I recently posted re Alendronic Acid and have received some helpful replies. So encouraged by that I am here with further questions. I was diagnosed around 3 years ago with "mild" osteoporosis. This followed a stress fracture to my ankle (had just taken up running). I declined medication and sorry to say didn't take as seriously as I should as I am mostly quite fit and active. Just after Christmas I slipped in the mud while out walking (proper banana skin feet in the air fall) and broke my wrist. So now I do have to take it seriously as have also turned 70 so am aware of all the dangers ahead. I am taking AA (bad side effects) and considering diet and exercising better plus supplements.
I have some questions please:
1. Is bone density even throughout the body? Is it possible to have poor bone density in ankles and wrists but have normal bone density in say hips and spine? I have arthritis in my feet and hands but nowhere else in my body (as far as I am aware) and also have poor blood supply to hands and feet which I think affects bone density? I ask as I did yoga (can't while wrist recovering) and am very supple in my spine with only a little back pain occasionally on waking which disappears as soon as I start to move around.
2. What do you consider the best exercise for osteoporosis? I am a bit wary of going back to yoga after reading on here about crushed vertebrae and being careful with bending forward. I have had to give it a break since I broke my wrist and have been walking for an hour daily on my treadmill instead (quite fast). I am sole carer for my husband who has a cervical spinal injury so do a lot of lifting and bending. Should I sign up for some weight training? Is a weighted vest a good investment as because of my caring duties I wouldn't be able to get to the gym that often.
3. What do you consider the best supplements and in what dosage? I am reading of the dangers of too much calcium. Have had no blood tests yet so have asked for an appointment with my GP and also dexa scan results from original diagnosis and whether I can have an updated dexa scan.
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Thank you. I admit to being very confused re calcium intake. I am dairy intolerant so worry about whether I am getting enough calcium. Sounds like I need to look at increasing via diet I think rather than supplements. I will look up the Sinaki study you mention - sounds really interesting. Back extension sounds much like one of the core hatha yoga poses too. Thank you so much for the info. There is a lot of info on the internet and I am trying to work out the good info vs the bad info 😁
Dairy is not necessarily the best source of calcium anyway - after all no other animal consumes milk after infancy and we don't see them crumbling from weak bones. If you are able to consume fermented forms they are beneficial (yoghurt, kefir, some cheeses). On the other hand calcium is available in a lot of other foods. Google helps find them! And advice given elsewhere in this thread re Vitamins is really important.
I went to an osteoporosis workshop at my local hospital and learned a few things including ways to protect the spine when moving. Don't twist when standing, although I think there are safe exercises when lying down. To avoid bending the spine forward crouch slightly. It's not like the knee bends they made us do in school. To keep your centre of gravity stable, stick out your bottom as you slighly bend your knees. This can enable you to pick something off the floor without bending the back, or stressing the knees. In my case it helps me feed my cat! One of the things the right kind of exercise will do is strengthen the core muscles and those lining and supporting the spine.
Thanks for this - really helpful. Have been googling foods with calcium and also filled in a Questionaire that calculated how much calcium you consume. I was quite surprised that my low diary diet is more than adequate in terms of calcium. I eat a lot of leafy veg. I now plan to up it even more by using my soup maker to make high calcium soups 😂😊
There is some thought that calcium from plants is often more bio available to the body than that from high protein sources like dairy. Sort of the opposite of iron, which I think is more available from animals. My daughter is a dietitian and now I'm beginning to understand why she had to take biochemistry!
In answer to your questions: 1. Osteoporosis is systemic, meaning that you normally lose bone density at a similar rate throughout your body.
2. There's a bone clinic in Australia that has had good results from exercise that includes weight training. It's generally considered that the higher the impact, the more likely that exercise will be beneficial to the bones, but once we have osteoporosis we need to balance that with the risk of doing damage, so it's advisable to be properly supervised by someone who understands osteoporosis. You need to be particularly careful with bending and lifting, so if you haven't already done it, I'd recommend a manual handling training course. Weighted vests are generally considered to have potential benefit, but aren't suitable for everyone, particularly if you have curvature of the spine. Look for one that has lots of very small weights so that you can start with a very low weight and increase it very gradually. It also needs to be a good fit so that the weight is spread out and it doesn't exert undue pressure in one area.
3. It's recommended by many to take enough Vitamin D to raise your blood level to at least 75nmol/litre or higher (this would need monitoring via regular blood tests), along with 90-180mcg Vitamin K2-MK7 or 45mg Vitamin K2-MK4, magnesium (not sure of the dose),plus boron (3mg or more), zinc (10-15mg, though some say more), possibly also Vitamin C (not sure of the dose). I get my calcium and magnesium from diet. You need to be aware that you can't tell from blood tests whether you're getting enough calcium, as blood calcium should be in a narrow range which is usually carefully regulated by the body. If you don't have enough calcium, it simply doesn't make it to the bones, while blood calcium usually stays within the normal range. If you have too much calcium it's likely to be excreted via the kidneys or can end up furring up the arteries, which is where K2 comes in, to help direct it to the bones. Magnesium is very important to the bones too and I would supplement if I could, but I haven't managed to find a form that agrees with me, hence having to rely on a magnesium rich diet. It's also recommended to have plenty of protein in your diet.
Yes you can have different bone density in your wrists and feet which is what I had due to my (now treated) hyperparathyroidism. I fell and broke my wrist, subsequently had a dexa scan where T scores in my hip and spine were -2. 5 and -2.9 respectively. The endocrinologist to whom I was referred re the parathyroid gland problem sent me for a separate dexa scan on my wrist (same machine) and the T score was -4.5 which is the result he expected and helped to confirm the diagnosis. Hope this helps.
There is also a leaflet with foods and their calcium / vitamin D content that I can’t find but which is very good too.
I do Pilates with a teacher who is a physiotherapist. I’m in a little group of ladies who all have some form of aches and pains. Not sure how many of the people there have osteoporosis but she looks after us and adjusts all of the exercises to suit us all individually for example we never do ‘roll downs’ - back extension as mentioned by someone is the way to go.
We do a lot of exercises to strengthen out ankles and shins - that’s what holds us up, we do a lot with balance too, stops us falling over. I love pilates - I tried three times and just never got on with yoga. If you do try that you want a very good teacher who understands osteoporosis and who will never force you to do anything - especially if it hurts.
At the moment we are doing zom classes but we’ve all been with our teacher for years and she knows our bodies well but even then she always reminds us we must never ever do anything that causes pain.
I use a Margaret Martin Melioguide exercise DVD for exercises, I like her stuff, she has a very good book Exercise for Osteoporosis melioguide.com that I like and will tell you what to do nut more importantly what NOT to do.
I also do Nordic walking which is good.
I broke my wrist last year and was terrified into trying Alendronic Acid. I tried it for four months last year, but stopped because it made me feel so ill, as it was a whole body problem rather than a gut problem I definitely didn’t want to try infusions.
Since then as well as a exercise and diet I’ve been taking a small amount of calcium citrate (My gut didn’t get on with the calcium carbonate / vitamin D I got from the doctor) to boost my dietary calcium - I eat kale and other leafy greens until they are coming out of my ears, plus almonds, figs and seeds. I take vitamin D and test regularly to make sure my vitamin D levels are good. I take K2-Mk7, boron, omega 3 algae oil, and a vitamin C with zinc. Think that’s all I take.
I was checked out for vitamin D, calcium, hyperparathyroidism etc before it was decided that I just have plain old osteonecrosis probably caused by age (I’m 72) and a family history of it. Plus I’ve had an overactive thyroid and RA, which don’t help.
Hope you’ve found some help from what others have said. It’s hard to get your head round a diagnosis of osteoporosis but I’ve got used to it now.
Thank you for taking the time to give me so much info. Lots of helpful things to get me started. I have had a quick look at the Melioguide exercise web page and it looks exactly what I am looking for. My husband is disabled and he has a lovely physio who has looked after him for the last 9 years. I will ask her for a recommendation of any physio led exercise classes she knows of. I am finding the supplements thing slightly confusing. My doc said no need to take any supplements as my calcium levels are fine - just some D3 if I am concerned about not getting in the sunlight enough. I am wary of too much calcium after reading that it can be detrimental. But am getting a lot of good advice and info here so hope to be able to work out the best route for me. Def not liking the AA - but wary of going against medical advice which tells me I need it. Thanks again - very grateful for the info and good luck with your health issues.
Someone mentioned the Australian trial of high impact resistance training. It was called the Liftmor Trial. Here is a link.
"High-Intensity Resistance and Impact Training Improves Bone Mineral Density and Physical Function in Postmenopausal Women With Osteopenia and Osteoporosis: The LIFTMOR Randomized Controlled Trial - PubMed" pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/289...
Several years ago I was diagnosed with osteo but have put off doing anything about it but now that I have another diagnosis, have to have a bone scan again and *really* would rather not take some of these drugs. Anyway, my tum doesn't tolerate calcium. I take Vitamin D and also drink lots of coconut milk (the kind that's a dairy substitute) in my coffees so get lots of calcium that way (yeah lattes at home for a calcium source).
I was looking at alternative sources and found a vegan one called mykind organic plant calcium (Brand: Garden of Life) that seems better (all plant derived so no dairy, etc.) and more tolerable. I was told that people taking blood thinners shouldn't take it (also has Vitamin K in it) as well as Vitamin D and Magnesium. I burp a bit but still much better than other supplements. I don't know how good it is so can't attest to that but encouraging so far.
I have different bone densities in my hips (worse) and back. I do rehabilitation Pilates but for bone density I've heard walking is good and when I'm up to it I do no jump dancing with my headphones (fun) for building bone density. Creating playlists is a good hobby for me.
I have mild arthritis which I wonder how mild due to worsening but not taking anything for that though on lots of meds for other things.
Thanks for the recommend of MyKind. Had a look and can get on Amazon. Seems like calcium from vege sources might be easier to absorb. So have you decided not to go the meds route and use diet , supplements and exercise?
I've just been putting it off but now have breast cancer and will have to take hormone blockers (they have their own set of side effects including bone loss), so I have to get serious about it and it was recommended years ago that I have the Prolia shot. However, after hearing about the rebound fractures after discontinuing Prolia (you have to start on something else immediately to avoid it) then hearing about the bone jaw issues from other meds for osteo (and needing to go on antibiotics pre and post dental work), I've been, shall we say, dawdling about making a decision.
I doubt that in one month I'll get any effect but I'm hoping with the MyKind (the *only* calcium I've been able to take) and walking it will be good enough over time. I have an autoimmune disorder so I react weirdly to meds and they also easily affect my gut. So far so good with this vegie one and I see they get good reviews. The only thing I don't like about it is that one of the ingredients is Palm Oil (though they say it's sustainably harvested).
Anyway, that's what I'm going to do: MyKind, walking, 800 mg calcium via food sources (mainly lots of lattes), Vitamin D (prescribed at 2000 iu) and crossing my fingers.
I should also add that I do rehab Pilates (Zoom 1-1 twice a week) and was doing it once a week before COVID. It has helped a lot and I haven't needed to start arthritis meds and gradually stopped taking my half a T3 as I kept forgetting. The Pilates helps a lot with general mobility keeps everything moving (hips, neck, etc.) but she had special training. I also think it help with fall prevention.
You're doing lots of research so I hope you're able to come up with a plan that works really well for you.
That's a lot of issues to deal with Lucky4. I wish you tons of luck and hope your new regime works well for you. Look forward to reading positive updates on here. Sounds like you have done a lot of research too. Someone on here rec this to me and it certainly looks interesting though I haven't gone into it deeply yet. Wondered if any help until your pilates classes start up again melioguide.com/free-course/
Thanks! I'm doing Pilates now twice a week via Zoom so that works well for me; have been doing the Zoom thing since COVID and actually prefer it to going to the studio. I think without it, I wouldn't be able to walk. Post-surgeries, my back has gotten bad again so will have to force myself to get out and walk again.
I have a much longer list of stuff but won't bore you with it. LOL It does make me grateful for what is going well and the good stuff in my life. So many people are going through so much.
UPDATE! I managed to get a face to face appt with the lady gyne doc at my GP surgery who also specialises in Osteoporosis. What a difference sitting in front of someone who is prepared to listen makes! I got it by sneaky means as my GP practice is still only doing face to face if absolutely necessary and had refused a FtoF previously as no examination needed. Luckily I had an (unrelated) gyne issue that I could use an an excuse 😊. She listened then looked at my T and Z scores again and had a good chat about how I got my fractures and what led me to where I am now. Concluded that I was borderline for needing medication and that I had Oseopenia (though at the higher end). She suggested that as I had such a bad reaction to Alendronic Acid (she said I should come off whatever) and I was being very proactive we should try diet and exercise for 2 or 3 years then look at things again. The last doc I spoke to said I couldn't have another DEXA scan as I had one 3 years ago and they were treating me now anyway. She was much more reasonable and said that we should check that my scores hadn't changed since the last DEXA scan and also we needed some starting numbers to compare where we are in 2 or 3 years time. Appointment on the way! So - here I am very relieved to be off that awful medication. I know it works for some but the side effects were dire for me. To add to the issues I mentioned in my original post, I was also getting Silent/Ocular Migraines (all the symptoms and aura etc of a migraine without the headache) every day. They are caused by chemical reactions in the brain and can be triggered by an unhappy gut. Was diagnosed with them a few years ago but pre AA only got them occasionally, like 3 or 4 times a year. She was pretty sure this change was due to my upset digestive system. So thank you all very much for the info and experiences that you have shared. She did not know about this forum but says she will direct patients this way who could use the support.
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