after reading a lot of stories about how some people are suffering trying to do everyday things and I feel sorry for them, and yet I have mild to moderate wedge compression fracture of t12 and I am walking ok,why.
why am I still walking about - Bone Health and O...
why am I still walking about
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Radars
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Most people who've had one compression fracture are still able to walk unaided. Many of the people I know with several fractures are also able to do so, but I do know a few people who now need the help of a stick or walking frame.
yeah, do you think I will be better off having my second reclast infusion, in case of having another fracture.
I know it's a difficult decision, but only you can make it. Osteoporosis medication does reduce the risk of fracture, but doesn't guarantee no fractures. As you've already had one fracture, I imagine your fracture risk is high. Do you know what your FRAX (fracture risk) score is? It might be, for example, 20% chance of fracture in the next 10 years.
10 yr probability fracture %,major osteoporotic , 2.4 hip fracture 0.5, what does that mean .
That's an amazingly low fracture risk! Did they take your existing fracture into account? It means you have a 2.4% chance of a hip fracture in the next 10 years and a 0.5% chance of any major fracture (spine, hip, wrist, not sure what else). Do you know what caused your spine fracture? It sounds like they haven't included it in the fracture risk assessment, as once you've had one fragility fracture (one that happens with little or no impact), you're at risk of further ones.
I had my dexa scan in 2022,and my scores were-2.5 ,4.1 lumbar spine, bmd at femoral neck 0.593, vfa superior end-plate deformity at t12.
Was your fracture confirmed after that? Do you know what caused the fracture?
Hello Radars, you mention in your other post and also in this that you have a mild / moderate wedge fracture of T12.
Here you say in your report following your Dexa it is an end plate deformity.
Are you aware these are two entirely different things.
end plate deformity was dexa scan, and mild to moderate wedge compression fracture was x-ray
That is really confusing, but then there has been much confusion over my x-rays and MRI scans over the years!!
Only recently my x-ray report did not show a rib fracture but then the Orthopaedic Surgeon said he could see the rib fracture on my X-ray😩
Some medics are better at reading x-rays than others. The last three times I have been to A & E in excessive pain, the same doctor has told me I haven't got any further compression fractures. Then he tells me the list of what I have and it's been longer every time.
I have 2 compression fractures but I am in my early 50s and they have very little impact on my life other than the types of exercises I can do. My fracture risk was low and they were only picked up because the consultant did a baseline MRI as part of my assessment. I don't have much in the way of symptoms or pain but expect that might change over the next 20+ years even with treatment? Don't like to think about it too much.
don't you get any pain in your upper thoracic at all, I have just done the frax score, and it says, major osteoporotic is =11,hip fracture is 6.3,bmi is 18.1,10yr probability is%,don't know how accurate it is
One is at T8. Sometimes I get a bit of discomfort between shoulder blades but if I did not know there was something wrong, I would put it down to bad posture at desk when working. Unfortunately, I was diagnosed in 2021 when things were still quite busy with Covid so I never had the opportunity to discuss all the results with a consultant after my tests, just a letter recommending that I start infusions.
I don't remember the numbers but my FRAX score was low then proved to be irrelevant/wrong when they looked at my spine. Consultant letter says 'So it shows how FRAX can underscore fracture risk where there are vertebral fractures in some cases.' I would not fixate on FRAX numbers.
Without dwelling on it, you should think about it. When you lift something heavy or bend down you are at risk of more fractures. That's the problem; I like to think of it as a domino effect, though in truth I think it's more complicated.
I don't like to think about ending up in a wheelchair or worse but I am very conscious of what exercises/movements I should avoid.
That is a real fear. My cousin lived to a good age and was suffering a bit from dementia but she described her condition as being like her spine was disintegrating - osteoporosis I guess (she had been a surgeon but was forgetting all these words). She was in a lot of pain and I can't end my life like that.
Since you posted this the ROS has put up Understanding your bone scan and if you go on that you will find lots of useful information
Hi Radars, I've heard that some people don't experience pain when they get a wedge fracture. I don't know why this should be.
I'm now 79 and my first fracture was T4 about six years ago after I slipped on mud and fell on my bum. It wasn't unbearable and my GP just sent me for physio; it wasn't diagnosed until I got my next fracture - caused by lifting something extremely heavy.
That was one of the lumbar vertebrae, followed by most of the others I think I've only got one vertebra that isn't fractured in my lower back. Then it was T12 which was screamingly painful, and then before I'd even got over that, T11. T11 s my 7th fracture and the pain after three months is still severe in that I can't straighten up but find I can walk more easily and a lot quicker with two sticks. Constant use of one can make you one-sided and I think you run more risk of wrist-fracture after putting weight on it so much.
Doing too much walking or sitting in a bad chair or at a poor angle can cause more pain on top. So my GP says we have to assume I have osteoporosis and I am back on the alendronic acid (that I stopped taking after I had the second or third one because of the dental aspect). He said "Your bones are more important than your teeth" and I think that is true, but I do know that AA and calcium/vitamin D only give you a 50% chance of not fracturing.
I very quickly get out of breath when walking but I have put that down to my blood cancer and the fact that everything you do takes more effort. Taking my partner's clothes to the hospital in a plastic bag on my back - it felt SO heavy! I collapsed twice in the hospital. Of course, they couldn't understand why that was. They were sitting me down, giving me water (great) and treating me as if I had stability problems, and I didn't have any weight to carry on my way out but they put me in a wheelchair when I left the ward! They don't think. I'm an old lady with painful compression fractures; even I thought that putting the load on my back would be much better than carrying it, when I need both hands for my sticks!
I don't know what "mild to moderate compression fractures" are. It's a wedge fracture - how much "give" does it have? For me, T11 and 12 are the worst ones to fracture. My physio said that they can heal completely but I wonder about that. I suppose the word "can" is significant in that respect. I just want to be able to stand upright; I used to have excellent posture and it would make such a difference even though I have lost height.
it's hard work, I go for my second zoledronic acid infusion tomorrow, after the first one last year I was peeing blood, if it happens again tomorrow I won't have no more.
Oh gosh! I was hoping for injections but it wasn't offered; possibly the capsules once a week might be cheaper. It sounds quite horrendous in your case. I hope you get the outcome you are hoping for.
Well done to you Radars for giving it another go!!!
I really hope all goes well for you this time, if you have the same issue as with your first infusion then at least you will know you tried your best.
It could well have just been a complete coincidence and this is the only way you will find out. ( That is how found out)
The good thing about it all for you is that it cleared up quickly and you have not suffered any other side effects.
I hope you will be able to write with good news and you can be one of the lucky ones who can have the follow up treatment.
sunseaandsand,thanks been talking to ros she said if it happens again they will put me on prolia I said that's even worse but what else is there running out of options, just have to do the best I can.
Not really responding to anyone specific here, just sort of musing about fractures. They've confused me, too.
I have three (that we know about) in my upper back, T 6,7&8, and one for sure at L1. All are now relatively "old" (T8 was the last, in September,) and none is in what I call the acute phase--where any jolt sends shock waves, where spasms happen, etc.
But are they "healed"? What does healing even mean in an entity like the spine?
What I know is that even though I feel pretty good generally, if I put any pressure at all on those fractures, they will start to sing--or, the muscles/nerves around them will--and what it feels like is "my back is broken". It's definitely different from sore muscles or a torn ligament. It's still not as painful as when they were fresh, but it's still way more painful than you might imagine a healed bone would feel.
I am of course working hard on a hump, so I've been lying on my back on a hard surface for awhile, feet elevated, knees bent at 90 degrees, in hopes of stretching thing out, encouraging a straighter posture, etc. If my back is screaming, it also relieves pain. Initially when I would do this, like...up to just a few months ago...it would just be a sensation of the muscles relaxing. Now, and I've come to crave this moment, I'll get these pops, usually one big one and two smaller ones. The big one can make me gasp a bit, like, what the heck just happened here? (I was never one to have my back cracked, never saw it as feeling good when the chiropractor I saw for awhile did it.) But the relief is immense, and I've decided it's a good thing, even though I've seen people on these sites be all "no that's bad!" (at least, they don't recommend chiropractors.)
L1 never cracks, but I can still feel it when I lie on my back like that. And maybe most impressive is just how many muscles DO get engaged in supporting those weak spots. I almost have to talk them down--it's okay, you can let go now, you gotta or I'm not going to get the cracks! And little by little I can feel them giving up.
I do have to say, getting up from that position is not a speedy process, not because I can't get up fairly easily generally, but it's like having relaxed these muscles, they don't quite know what they're supposed to do now. But the bones are so much better, at least for awhile. that I've taken to "assuming the position" on the sidewalk (in a quiet neighborhood of course,) with my feet on the driver's side seat of my car, in the break room at work (if I get a break,) on my friend's deck. And interestingly, since getting pretty diligent about this regimen, I seem to be a bit taller (1/2 inch! of the 3 I'd lost. In my mind, this is significant!) This is probably mostly just that I'm stronger and can hold a straighter posture better but it still makes me wonder how the bones work? My guess is they'll always be a but more prone to folding into that curve, but if we actually do build bone during bone healing, might enough bone grow in to fill the wedge? I don't know. All I know is, I want to make sure I give them space to do it if they want to.
I can also still walk. When I struggled with walking, it was when my SI joint or sacrum, was involved. I think it's an unstable joint, so if it gets moved, I suffer--sincerely, far worse than fractures. I've moved it multiple times, now have other reasons to not do things like play pickleball, so I'm not putting it in jeopardy the way I used to, but I also think I have built up the muscles thaf support that area, too. Muscles make a huge difference, and it's counter-intuitive to try to do strength training when something hurts, but I think in the case of our backs, we pretty much have to--within parameters, of course. When I remember to start my day with "tricep bridges", the whole chain feels better. I always feel better after lifting heavier weights...I mean, it's full on pain relief, now. (It doesn't necessarily last, but it's worth it for that hour or so that I feel "normal" again.)
I guess all that to say, I think whether you can walk or not after fractures depends a lot on where they are, but also depends on your general fitness/frailty quotient. Pain wants you to lean into frailty, and I GET it. I was in my late 50s when all this started, I was used to running, biking, and working out pretty hard with the weights, but after I started hurting my back, the last thing I wanted to do was anything that might hurt it again. And all that did--two years of babying my back (I still walked, but couldn't run,) just made fractures more likely and recovery harder. I truly believe that I've reduced my fracture risk by...50% just through determining to keep working on those muscles (once the acute phase was past,) despite pain. It doesn't matter what my bone density is (at this point,) as long as I don't do stupid things and have enough muscle to support my spine--and hips.
So, do hard things! Start where you are and build up!
yeah, good but what about us lifting weights with severe osteoporosis.
I still say you gotta do it.
You start slow, stay stable, and work up. I started with 2 pound weights. Now am up to 15's, which actually is a bit heavy (we don't have 12s, apparently,) so I reduce the reps...if I feel too fatigued, I'll lose "form" so, stop before that happens. But do at least one rep that pushes you past where you think you can go "comfortably". There are lots of things you can do even with fractures. And if you don't want to use weights, there are lots of body weight moves...counter pushups, plank, bridges, pelvic tilts (I could barely do those 6 weeks ago, now I've practically forgotten that it was hard; that's just testimony to how stiff and contracted we get, how little we actually move those muscles once they've gone into protective mode, but they need to be moved! Blood flow helps pain, aids healing.) Just go slow, work your way up.
Josephinius1 - I love your attitude and that ‘on your back position with your knees bent’ is my favourite way to rest my bones.
Sometimes I even put my lower legs on the seat of a dining chair with a cushion on it. Super comfortable.
Many years ago when I first had back problems I used to hang from something where my feet couldn’t touch the ground - I don’t tend to do that now, coming down is a bit risky.
Do you roll over and come up through your side when you get up off the floor? That’s how we do it in Pilates - and how I get off the bed in the morning.
I reckon you’ve got to just keep moving as best you can and like you say - don’t do anything stupid.
Yes, I roll over on to my side to get up, and usually have to grab on to something for a bit of an assist, just because it's lije those muscles aren't sure how they work after getting all relaxed. (I can almost pop out of bed "normally" now--don't have to roll on my side, I mean. That's definitely improvement...maybe stupid too...I'm a slow learner.)
I still hang sometimes too--my drop is only like an inch (have to hold my feet up to actually hang,) so that's not an issue but same sensation of "Will everything reassemble itself? Okay, yes, we'll be fine," as I hit the ground. Being as compressed as I am, that stretch is a huge, if temporary, relief.
Thanks for responding!
Good luck for your infusion. I know you were pretty unwell before so hope this one goes better. I have just had my fourth infusion, with no side effects although, like you, my first was horrendous.
I have been told I will be able to have one more next year and depending on my dexa scan, my treatment will be changed.
I am concerned about this as the alternatives like prolia and teripatide are the only options, neither of which I want to take.
I can truthfully say that the infusions have made a difference. I have gained a little height, I'm more mobile, albeit with a walker and do not suffer the excrutiating pain I had before.
Howere, I am still on my electric bed with the head end raised to about 40 degrees with the foot end about 10 degrees.
I have tried to go flatter but my muscles go into spasm and it is hard to move in bed. I still sleep on my back, I last about 60mins on my side. I have had both hips replaced and lying on them is painful.
However, I feel so much brighter, more optimistic and with my mobility improved, I have done well.
You are sounding less apprehensive and more capable of handling your spinal fractures. I wish you well, and with good luck, your infusion will continue to have a beneficial action.
Well done for keeping going.
just got back from having infusion went ok,do you have to rest or just carry on as normal, I couldn't stop going to the toilet for a pee with the water I was drinking.
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