Dexa scan results while on prednisone and usin... - Bone Health

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Dexa scan results while on prednisone and using the COMB micronutrient protocol.

Karenjaninaz
Karenjaninaz

After being diagnosed with osteoporosis 2 years ago I had tried Alendronate and couldn't tolerate it; Tried Forteo for a couple of months but ended up in ER with shortness of breath. With my rheumatologist and internist approval I followed the Micronutrient protocol for 1 1/2 years - while taking prednisone. I only took half the recommended dose of strontium citrate and stopped the strontium citrate 6 months ago because of lack of research but I might resume. Never had any troubles with it. I add I was unable to do heavy exercising - too weak. I did treadmill and one leg standing, table pushups and stationary bike, house steps- that's all.

Results 2018: L femoral neck: T score-2.8 Z score -0.8

R femoral neck: -2.3 Z -0.3 Forearm: T score -1.7 Z score 0.7

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Results 2020 : L femoral neck: T score -2.2 Z score -0.1

R femoral neck: T score: -2.2 Z score: 0.1 Forearm: T score: -2.0 Z score: 0.6

Same scanner both times.

18 Replies
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DEXA scan results for (lower) vertebrae, next to hip/femur?

Could you manage Sinaki's back extension routine? Invaluable for protecting / strengthening vertebrae imo.

~wbiC, member bonehealth forum

Karenjaninaz
Karenjaninaz in reply to wbiC

I have spinal hardware for adolescent scoliosis correction4 operations- last at age 60. Fused T-4 to sacrum. Spine cannot be measured and spinal exercise you mentioned impossible and forbidden to try.

Kaarina
Kaarina in reply to Karenjaninaz

Same here spinal results do not give anywhere near an accurate result for me either, due to adolescent scoliosis.

wbiC
wbiC in reply to Karenjaninaz

If you're ambulatory (do stuff), it may be acceptable and indeed encouraged (I urge you to consult with your doctor next time you visit). 'extension' is way less risky for vertebrae than 'flexion' (bending forward), which most of us do many times a day with and without a weight bearing load.

example: Figure (A) 1, 2, 3 at physio-pedia.com/Osteoporot...

~wbiC, member bonehealth forum

Portobello
Portobello in reply to wbiC

Such a useful ' interesting link. Thanks for posting ☺️

wbiC
wbiC in reply to Portobello

I'd be dubious about all that's there, except for that one example exercise (that I know is study proven, based on several research studies by Sinaki -- see the article's ref. link #27, for example for one of them).

I've read over 1,000 studies about osteoporosis (eg. the surgery mentioned in that link's article appears to be not much better than no surgery).

~wbiC, member bonehealth forum

Portobello
Portobello in reply to wbiC

Thanks again. I have no fractures just awful Dexa scores and awaiting a Rheumatology video consultation in Feb. Dreading having to make a meds decision after all I've read!

wbiC
wbiC in reply to Portobello

Well, bone meds do halve your risk of fractures (except for Boniva, still on the market but doesn't touch hip fracture frequency!).

That's given NO other interventions, such as diet/supplements/herbs (I've had great success with 'thyme', a topic posted on my profile). Finetuning calcium intake is an obvious step-- the sweet spot appears to be 600-900 mg/Ca total, per day (too much, or, too little, is related to osteoporosis).

And preventive steps (removing trip hazards like rugs), balance/agility training to prevent and/or recover safely when starting to fall, thigh muscle strengthening to help your legs move faster for more effective recovery during a slip, acute attention to good posture (always bend with the knees, not the back, to maintain the strong and stable S curve of your spine -- bending puts your body weight plus any other stress on the edges of your vertebrae more than tripling the compression stress on them), etc. Stronger thigh muscles make bend with the knees a joy, not an agony.

China's elderly have an unusually low frequency of hip fractures, thought largely due to their more than double silicon intake (maybe a piezo-electric effect boosting the bone's signal strength to the body that more calcium's needed) in their food (hence, I've started taking BioSil silicon supplement capsules, 2/day) and eating more brown rice. etc. etc. I've even contemplated investing in an airbag belt, newly available to the public (previously sold just to rest home facilities).

~wbiC, member bonehealth forum

Portobello
Portobello in reply to wbiC

I'm already attempting most of the interventions you mention. Frustrating that the success or otherwise can't be easily measured. Also worrying that bone meds' side effects not emphasised enough.

wbiC
wbiC in reply to Portobello

Well, there are billions (trillions?) of dollars behind the med approach, and funding clinical trials is Very expensive. Fair enough.

But, considering the healthcare costs' impact of bone fractures on our country's medical care budgets, one could hope some government would step in and do a rigourous double blind trial (5 to 10 to 20 years duration) of various well known approaches, to confirm their usefulness. Not happening so far as I know.

Perhaps they're all waiting for one government to take the lead. The cynic in me, thinks Big Pharma has had a hand in getting their lobbyists to discourage any 'boat rocking'.

~wbiC, member bonehealth forum

ps. I'm really looking forward to my next DEXA scan (this April), not that BMD is the whole story (some bone meds, those that failed to get approval and Boniva, will boost BMD but not reduce all types of fractures).

Karenjaninaz
Karenjaninaz in reply to wbiC

Thyme has estrogen like effects. There are warnings for people like me who are breast cancer survivors. I add I was given estrogen/ progesterone for six years- including so-called “ bio-identical” hormones. I ended up with bilateral breast cancer; the tumors were estrogen fed.

wbiC
wbiC in reply to Karenjaninaz

Interesting. I'm checking just now to see if there are any scientific studies that have focussed on that particular point. Obviously it's very concerning.

I expect to be done within the half hour.

~wbiC, member bonehealth forum

editted to add: tandfonline.com/doi/full/10... suggests thyme is a strong candidate for tackling breast cancer [still checking]

'apoptosis' means dissassemble/kills; a very promising study: google.com/url?q=http://www... (downloads a pdf file to your PC's download area)

'T. vulgaris' is thyme "This study has, for the first time, demonstrated significant anti-cancer activity of T. vulgaris (haulm) in experimental mammary carcinogenesis using two in vivo models (chemoprevention and therapeutic) and two BC cell lines in vitro." ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

OK, I've convinced myself thyme is a good candidate for killing cancer cells, including breast and cervical. Are there any studies showing thyme is harmful or encourages breast cancer development?

I now suspect (strongly) that any 'estrogen like' effect for thyme is not related to cancer development, but is related to the how and why thyme kills breast/cervical cancer cells. I've no biology or medical training, I'm merely a retired analytical chemist (who is comfortable reading many research studies).

Karenjaninaz
Karenjaninaz in reply to wbiC

There was the Nurses’ Study which followed nurses taking hormone replacement therapy over many years. I read the preliminary results in a medical journal; the study was halted early because of the cancer and under significantly troubling. Yes, estrogen preserves bone.

Do you take D3, K2 and Magnesium ? All of which help bone health. I've recently also been diagnosed with osteoporosis, no idea of what my score is though, will ask rheumy when I next see him in June. I've been on Pred for just over a year and hopefully, due to slow tapering I'll be finished them at the end of this year (2021) However, many women are walking around with osteoporosis and are unaware of it. I think routine Dexa scans should be taken on post menopausal women. I've had several doses of Pred over the years due to asthma attacks (that's completely controlled these days) but the damage has already been done. Had I not requested a scan when I last saw my rheumy in Oct 2020 I'd never know. They just prescribe the medication and that's it. I refused to take the Alendronic Acid until I'd found out what my bone health is like. I'm taking 35 mg of Risedronate once weekly.

Anne

Yes, I am doing all I can to help. Had to request a Dexa after a year on Pred. Have a Rheumatology consultation in Feb- will see what I'm offered. Done a lot of reading and some e.g. Prolia I will refuse! Best wishes.

Best wishes back to you too X

Karenjaninaz
Karenjaninaz in reply to wbiC

With an instrumented spinal fusion with rods, screws, bolts and cages what you suggest is physically impossible for me.

Karenjaninaz
Karenjaninaz in reply to wbiC

No; the maneuver, which might be good for normal spines, are forbidden by my spine surgeon based on my previous reply. An instrumented spine is a special case.

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