Anabolic steroids?

[deengo]

I was curios if anyone has tried anabolic steroids, not to the extreme like a bodybuilder, but a mild dosage. I have a lot of trouble walking since my legs are becoming so weak and skinny. Years ago I was using primobolan and had some great results. It is easier for me to workout my legs then it is to walk. I've done a lot of research and it seems like a fairly harmless drug and is used in European countries but is illegal here in the states. I'm by no means advocating the use of this drug to maintain or gain some leg strength. I'm just curious if anyone has any input on the subject.

[StevenSims]

Hi Deengo,

I think it would be a bad idea to use Steroids, you would be better off using Protein shakes or Protein bars, even using steroids muscle won't build unless you have protein! I train regular with weights for my upper body and I use a cross trainer as it uses your arms aswell as legs and I find that I can swap the resistance from legs to arms when they get tired.

All the best

Steve

[JohnH]

It is not the muscles that get week it is a signal to the muscles that fail. Having big muscles in your legs won't help you walk restoring the signal to those muscles will. Your leg muscles are getting thinner because of lack of use, my suggestion wouldbe to try and use them more. Steroids no matter what amounts do more harm than good to a body in most cases. Also for steroids to work you have to use the muscle that you are intending on building up.

[monkeybus]

Deengo, I am bumping your 2 Year old thread.

I seriously considered Anabolic Steroids.  I know where to buy them.  But I can find zero evidence for their efficacy in our situation.  Very harmful in the long run as well.

But, what it led me to was Peptides.  The bodybuilding community use a lot of Peptides, legal, effectife, safe???

Safe?  Well, these are sold as "research chemicals".  Tangentially but related, I've been taking 4-AP-3-MeOH (a research chemical) for nigh on a year now.

Random Peptide site

peptideswarehouse.com/produ...

Random Peptide

peptideswarehouse.com/shop/...

IGF-1 lr3 the Anabolic Powerhouse

evolutionary.org/igf-1-lr3-...

True, the signals are not getting through to the legs, that is the problem.  This leads to atrophy of the muscles.  

But, with 4-AP-3-MeOH, I can move, balance, exercise a far lot better, I can do leg squats, walk better, use my leg muscles a lot better.  Any way I could build the muscles can only add to leg strength.

The trouble is, a lot of these Peptides have to be injected.

Like most people, I'm terrified of injecting myself.  But, I have diabetic friends who do it without any care or concern.  I've known junkies who daily inject Heroin/Cocaine/crushed up pills.

A lot of bodybuilders are used to injecting good knows what as well.

You see where I am going with this.

Some Peptides are orally active, drop them onto your tongue

One nootropic I take is Noopept.  An orally available Peptide.

A lot of bodybuilders take it.

forums.steroid.com/anabolic...

Promotes the release of NGF and BDNGF

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/192...

"neuronal restoration"  that's a big thing when you have brain lesions.

A lot of these Peptides are similar to Human Growth Hormone and Steroids.  I've read that they are much harder to detect in athletic doping.  I'm sure a lot of professional sports people who take drugs take them.

Moving on from muscles to remyelination, some Peptides can be administered via a transdermal patch.

multiplesclerosisnewstoday....

This Peptide, Thymosin Beta 4 ( TB-500 ), you can buy.  

madisonjamesresearchchems.c...

I'm looking into fashioning my own transdermal patch.

There is a huge anti-ageing movement that use peptides as well, doubtful I'll live forever.

Anyway, I'm seriously looking into Peptides.  I'll post more later.

[deengo in reply to monkeybus]

A lot of people are under the misconception that because the nerves are not functioning properly you can not strengthen the muscles and it's sad that people think that way. If you can move your foot obviously the nerves to those muscles are working albeit not to the best of their ability in most of our cases. If the muscle is working it CAN be strengthened. The problem people get into is it is difficult so they don't try or just give up. This is part of the problem with people prematurely putting themselves into a wheelchair or scooter.. they give up before they have to. Keeping the muscles strong helps tremendously with everything until the point of no return where there nerves aren't functioning at all. 

[monkeybus in reply to deengo]

Agreed.

For three years now, I've travelled everywhere on an adult-sized kick scooter

amazon.com/Fuzion-Cityglide...

Funky old man.  It's great, fast, can take it on the train, gave me so much more range in me daily life.

But, I can only walk shorter distances these days, and my balance is worse.  I only realised this recently. Though, my legs are in great physical shape, kicking that scooter is hard work and I travel miles at a stretch on it.

I'm going to start walking with my forearm crutches and doing more serious leg exercises in the house.  That and Yoga (which I stop and start on for a decade).

The amazing thing about 4-AP/4-AP-3-MeOH is you may not have walked decently for years, then suddenly you can use muscles below your waist that you forgot were even there.

I like to stand on the train, holding nothing and just balance as the train lurches about.  Quite a challenge for me but doubtless easy for our "normal" brethren.

A store I used to visit had a vibration table in their sports department.  I used to love standing on that thing and vibrating my legs. That was when I had shocking Varicose Veins and my spasticity was through the roof.  When I dismounted the thing, the relief was fantastic, albeit much too brief.

A lot of different muscles get a workout on that thing, that and TENS/EMS to get deep into your muscles, throw in some drugs and some decent leg exercises on top

amazon.com/Merax-Whole-Vibr...

Very little research on this, but you'll see Mr Monkeybus is once again ahead of the curve.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/234...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/211...

You only have to look at Christopher Reeve, he made amazing progress (though, being a multi-millionaire must have helped somewhat).

When I was 19, I was a care worker, I helped quadraplegic people.  Some had limited movement in their arms or legs, but having a care worker in the house 24hrs a day, if they wanted the TV channel changed they'd call you in to push a button on the remote instead of moving their own arm.  Eventually they lost that limited movement that they had.

Like Kings and Queens of old had people to dress them.  They couldn't dress themselves.  I've read (and believe) Prince Charles has his toothpaste squeezed onto his brush for him.  

Try writing with your left hand (if you are right-handed), but some people have to.  In my time over in Japan, I still never managed to write the simplest Japanese scripts, Katakana and Hiragana.

yosida.com/en/katakana.html

yosida.com/en/hiragana.html

Have a go on those, then compare yourself to a Japanese 5 year old child.  It is a fact that writing with your opposite hand actually changes your brain, as does learning a foreign language, one way to ward off Alzheimer's.  Brain plasticity is a real thing.

amazon.com/Brain-That-Chang...

I'd like to think a decent, active, pliable brain is more able to combat lesions than one that watches TV and reads books/listens to music all day (that's me).

I'm convinced its a whole 

brain

  |

  |

nerve conduction

           |

           |

muscle condition

thing (my attempt at ASCII graphics).

Each stage of the circuit needs exercise/medication/supplementation/electrical-stimulation/variation.

But the signals go both ways for balance and co-ordination, that's why 4-AP is essential (for me).

I'm going cold turkey on 4-AP-3-MeOH this weekend, just so I get a bigger hit from it next week.

Anyone else take holidays from their drugs?

[deengo in reply to monkeybus]

Is the 4-ap the same as Ampyra? I was taking Ampyra for awhile and it really helped with my walking. I stopped taking it because it made my legs so weak. Now that my legs are getting stronger I'm going to start taking it again and see how I do. 

I've been doing a squat type exersice at home and it amazing how much stronger and bigger my legs are compared to a couple years ago. 

Basically I have a pull-up bar and stand on a chair. I squat down and stand up, just like you would with a squat bar. I use the pull-up bar to help myself stand up. When I first started it felt like I was in the gym squatting hundreds of pounds again. My first day I did 6 reps and used about 80% pull-up. I can do sets of 15 now and maybe 5-10% if it is a pull-up. 

It's so important to not give up like I did at one time (I think it was a whole change if life depression thing) 

Here in Arizona everybody wears shorts and I notice a lot of healthy guys with skinnier legs than mine now. Granted their legs work better but I feel better about it with all the effort I've been putting in. I too and one point was using forearm crutches. One day I'll probably be in a wheelchair for long outings but I'm okay with that.

[AmyLindy in reply to monkeybus]

I’m on Glutathione injections looking to add Tb4 peptides . What have you been onto since your post 2 years ago?

[monkeybus]

4-Aminopyridine, same chemical. 4-AP-3-MeOH is far superior (in my opinion). Not cheap like 4-AP 

mod4all.com/zencart/index.p...

I'm with you on the exercises. Squats, balance, cycling, Yoga.  My leg muscles, I have built back up, especially my right leg which was seriously atrophied.  Did a lot of TENS/EMS as well.  That feels great.  Going to buy a walking machine thing for the house.

amazon.com/Stamina-55-1610-...

There are a lot of different muscles to hit, really need to speak with a physiotherapist.

Another good thing is walking in water, I used to go to the pool a lot with my son.  Not so now he is older.

We should add to this thread.

[deengo in reply to monkeybus]

I've never seen a machine like that. I like the full elliptical machines but I think I might get one of those

[Elsjie]

Hi, Ive always been on Anavar but since cushions disease i have switched to T3. I'm finding it hard to get the balance of which steroids to use because of the high cortisol levels. Im only going back to gym tomorrow in months due to exercise spiking cortisol levels. But now Im just going to fight to get my muscles and strenght back.. hopefully it wont make the condition worse.. its like tryingto heal yourself because it feels like no one can help with getting cortisol levels down.. maybe its just like that here in South Africa.. other countries might have better knowledge .

[deengo]

Anavar has shown great results for muscle and nerve repair. I was reading a clinical trial where they used anavar on a patient. they did nerve and muscle biopsies before the trial and after and he actually had new nerve growth. He also gained weight, got stronger and his gait improved.

it is FDA approved here in the U.S. and I'm going to see if I can get a prescription for it. I feel like I'm at the point where the doctors have helped all they will and the last few years I've doing things on my own with better results.

[Seifert_09 in reply to deengo]

Do you have a link to the study?

[deengo in reply to Seifert_09]

I don't but if you search oxandrolone and CMT it comes up

[Seifert_09 in reply to deengo]

Thanks

[monkeybus]

Deengo, I am bumping your old thread.

Here is a study on oxandrolone.

Neuroregenerative Effect of Oxandrolone: A Case Report

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Oxandrolone, added to a physical rehabilitation program, could increase muscle and nerve protein synthesis and improve strength and motor control.

Here is the conclusion - Oxandrolone may be useful to restore functional axon and motoneuron efficiency and could be considered within rehabilitation programs in patients with neuromuscular damages, such as demyelinating diseases, hereditary neuropathy, aging, and after peripheral injury. Furthermore, type grouping can also be applied to investigate the accuracy of reinnervation.

I'll buy that.

[deengo in reply to monkeybus]

I read a similar study and got the go ahead to try. My neurologist said she would prescribe it if my endo followed up with me on it BUT then my life got all crazy, I moved from Arizona and it never happened.

[monkeybus in reply to deengo]

I'd have a bang on it.

There'll be side-effects, it's more of a question of, will the improvement be worth it?

And my hormones are fine, so I don't want to take anything that'll mess up one of the few things that I have going for me.

[deengo in reply to monkeybus]

Being in the Philippines now I dont even know if there's a doctor that will prescribe it. I would definitely try it though. My hormones are already jacked up. I've been on TRT for about 5 years now but its worth it.

[monkeybus in reply to deengo]

What are you on there? Is it a patch or tablets? Does it get you all fired up for the gym? You have to get some payback for this disease.

Can you not just pay a doctor to prescribe the steroids? I've lived all over the world and I've never had any problems either buying or getting prescribed whatever I want.

I am in Asia right now. Have a friend in the Philippines. Keep meaning to visit him. I should say hello to you as well. Where are you?

[deengo in reply to monkeybus]

Testosterone injection 200mg a week split up. This keeps my levels around 600 which is good. I think the range is 300-900 for normal and depending on age. Its not a matter of getting a prescription sometimes here. Its that there is not certain types of medicine in the Philippines. So they can't prescribe it others are easy if its available. I'm in Cagayan de Oro city in Northern Mindanao.

[monkeybus in reply to deengo]

Just had to Google Map that. Lovely slice of paradise. I am in Taiwan. Taipai, not so picturesque. Only here for a few more days, have to fly to London. Not looking forward to that. Then SIngapore. That'll be more like it. I hate the cold, and the food.

Has the old Covid hysteria died down over there?

[deengo in reply to monkeybus]

I hate the cold too. It makes it even harder to walk and I don't even want to walk long trips. Covid mania is starting to die down. It's at level 1 as of the first of March so everything is opened back up. They still require masks everywhere which is the stupid part.

[monkeybus in reply to deengo]

Japan, Taiwan, China. They wear masks all the time anyway. Colds, 'flu, hayfever. I am used to it. First time I have worn a mask though. When in Rome, etc. Get to hide my face from the government into the bargain. Proves it cannot be a deep state conspiracy. All that money they sank into facial recognition. Be interesting to go through immigration soon.

[Aaron98 in reply to monkeybus]

I grew up in Taiwan. Six years in country, total. But I was in the south of the island, outside Kaohsiung. You're right, Taipei isn't the prettiest part of the country, by a long shot. Have you made it down to Kenting or over to Alishan? Now THAT'S beauty.

What're you doing there, anyways?

[monkeybus in reply to Aaron98]

Certainly looks nice on Google. All I know is Taiwan and Tayuan. Even then, I am never here long enough for any fun. Just see the inside of offices. It is always in-out.

In Japan now, then I am off to London.

I work in computering. I'd love to be working at home again.