Good resources regarding vagal AFIB?

[dw98611]

Does anyone have any good resources (articles, YouTube videos) directed to vagally-mediated AFIB (the type that occurs after a large meal or while sleeping)? I believe my AFIB was triggered by endurance athletics (I used to do long bike rides and probably overdid it and stressed my body too much). It's the type I have, but it seems to be relatively rare, as everything I've read is directed to androgenic AFIB.

I ask because I've noticed certain supplements seem to trigger AFIB in me which, in most people, would be good for AFIB. The supplements are designed to calm you or help you sleep (they probably increase your vagal tone). The supplements I suspect of giving me trouble are taurine and glycine. Also, possibly one or more of the components in Jarrow GABA Sooth. I've been trying these to help me sleep, but if they make my AFIB worse, it'll obviously make my sleep much worse. Fortunately magnesium helps me and sometimes I'm able to stop an episode with magnesium. Magnesium is more of a muscle relaxant, which is probably why it works well.

Also, I read an article about taurine that stated it increases the QT interval, so it probably should be avoided by anyone on an antiarrhythmic drug. It's also added to energy drinks (I read it's because it enhances the effect of caffeine). I tried taurine because, on another list, several people swear by taurine and claim it can stop an episode or eliminate their AFIB completely.

[Autumn_Leaves]

Please don’t bother with these supplements especially if they’re triggering your AF. There’s probably no need to take them at all. Dietary sources are always better than pills and powders. Always bear in mind that these are very profitable and high margin products, and many are adulterated with fillers and ingredients of lesser quality. It’s a widespread practice and the same problem also happens with herbs, spices and foods like Manuka honey and extra virgin olive oil. You’re not always buying what you think you’re buying. I’m not saying this is what is triggering your AF, I’m saying question the necessity of taking these supplements in the first place. Chances are if you can afford them, you probably don’t need them. Spend the money on good quality food instead. A lot of people swear by taking whatever, but if it it really was the great cure, we’d all be taking it. Remember, the supplements industry is a multi billion dollar hugely profitable sector and they know how to make money out of us.

[secondtry in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

Totally agree. However I think the 'silver bullet' most of us seek lies in doing a lot of homework, doubling what you spend on food. A few supplements, but be very selective.

I buy a lot of food from a biodynamic organic farm, which I trust. As you say most of the time you can't trust what you buy eg I read somewhere sales of 'Manuka' honey are x6 what is actually produced! A lot of food fraud exists driving us to buy more locally.

I had a check-up with a dermatologist this week and he favours Vit D, no others.

I take a supplement from a trusted supplier which includes zinc as a prostate insurance policy, which seems to help.

I take Krill oil (back in the day it was Cod Liver Oil)

Lastly, I take a very small amount of a magnesium compound (incl taurine) & CoQ10 as advised by my Naturopath.

[Autumn_Leaves in reply to secondtry]

Food fraud is rife, but also with herbs and spices as these are very high value commodities and adulteration is common. We’ve probably all bought fraudulent products without knowing. Manuka honey is a well-known example but some supplies of ordinary supermarket honey has been found to be mostly glucose-fructose syrup when tested. If you choose to eat honey the ideal supplier is a local beekeeper.

Supplements by law in the UK are allowed a 20% tolerance limit in relation to the dose stated on the label, but the regulations here are better than in the US. It’s important to try and buy your supplements from a reputable brand. Buying cheap at too-good-to-be-true prices on Amazon is probably not a good idea.

I agree it’s difficult knowing who is or isn’t a trusted supplier of anything. If you can buy directly from the grower, that’s probably much better but it’s not so easy in cities. I’m not sure that what passes for a Farmer’s Market in some places is the real deal. Some of the stalls are just an outlet for a chain of delis. They may sell some nice things but it’s not buying directly from the farmer. But we do what we can…

[secondtry in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

Yep, I think we will all be buying more locally as people realise and loose trust....look after your local community will grow & grow (sorry no pun intended 😅).

[Hidden]

Hello dw, I have had years of not being able to go to sleep or stay asleep if I do. I now take 400 mg of magnesium which is supposed to help you sleep. I take it in the morning with my other supplements. About an hour before bed I make a cut of hot tea with sleepytime tea and sleepytime tea with melatonin . I use one bag each in an eight ounce cup, let it steep for 5 minutes. The teas are caffeine free. I also I go to bed and wake up at the same times every day. This routine has helped me go from 5 hrs or less to 6-7 hrs of sleep.

Maybe this will help you as well.

[Frances123 in reply to Hidden]

I am a lover of the sleepytime teas and use the ordinary and sleepytime extra. Not heard of the melatonin ones and just looked online. I was lead to believe you shouldn’t take melatonin (as a supplement) if on an anticoagulant as it can have interactions. Just wondering if the small amount in a teabag would be the same. Would only take it occasionally.

[Hidden in reply to Frances123]

I went to the sleepytime web site. The sleepytime with melatonin is not even on their site. I find it at Walmart. I buy as many boxes as they have. It seems to sell out. The bad thing is the sleepytime melatonin only comes with 18 tea bags. At Walmart it’s $4.50 a box. You can find it on Amazon but that’s $11.00 for 18 bags. I would advise you to speak with you prescribing doctor before drinking the teas with melatonin. I have one specialist that tells me to always ask first if I want to take anything herbal as some can interfere with my medications. Be safe and ask first.

[Frances123 in reply to Hidden]

Thanks and yes i would never take without asking. I always ask my pharmacist but just wondered if you already knew. It’s the same with too much ginger but my pharmacist said it was more to do with fresh ginger but the amount in tea bags wouldn’t be a problem as i was only having a cup here and there. I can get the ordinary and extra sleepytime here in the U.K. but can get all the others when I go to Holland which I am in 10 days time. I stock up then.

[Hidden in reply to Frances123]

Frances123

I checked the ingredients on the box it does not say how much melatonin is in each tea bag. It does say to check with your provider if you are taking prescription medication, or pregnant , or nursing. I’m sorry I can not help you further. Enjoy your holiday in Hollander. 🤞Hope they have the tea.

[CDreamer]

Hi - you can have both mixed vagaI with androgenic AF.

I have trouble with Taurine but seems to help some.

To improve vagal tone - cold water swimming and/or cold showers; breathing exercises; any exercise routine which includes breath work eg: Tai Chi, Yoga; Singing; gargling; I use a Physio Power breath exercise strengthener ; Meditation; regular walks in green spaces;

The aim of all these is to balance Sympathetic Nervous system with Parasympathetic Nervous system - ANS or Autonomic nervous system which triggers digestive issues because houvasten not in rest&digest mode before or whilst you eat - therefore you will be much more sensitive to others triggers.

Gut biome will also come into play so you may need to work on that as well.

I used to have a lot of links - most said exactly things the things I just highlighted but I’ll have a look & post if I find them.

Dr Richard Bogle in UK posted this some years ago - richardbogle.com/blog/vagal...

[Autumn_Leaves in reply to CDreamer]

A lot of your suggestions are free/low cost too. It’s important to get into the routine of ‘doing’ rather than buying. I haven’t heard of androgenic AF, I must say.

[CDreamer in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

Just means balance of male hormones such as testosterone out of kilter. Can also be adrenaline or cortisol induced which are stress hormones.

[secondtry]

Worth a read afibbers.org/victor2.html

[CDreamer]

youtu.be/ivof8UUKW3M(Not working as expected?) Dr Gupta explaining Vagal AF and relationship to internal organs and ANS

[CDreamer]

If you google vagus nerve or improving Vagal tone you will get a lot of results but they nearly all say everything that I have highlighted above. The more you understand about how your ANS works and how you in particular react the better so become the observer of yourself, keep notes.

This website was my first go to when I first started working with this some 15-20 years ago. It’s now a bit of a marketing site BUT has excellent information and the device they sell does help you understand and control the links between breath, digestion and Vagal tone in what they call Heart Coherence. heartmath.com/science/

The exercises that you find on the Webpages are good, they may seem a bit new age but they work and using the tool helps you focus and helps you get the bio feedback to keep you on track.

If you have ploughed through all of this information and really understood the relationship the ANS plays in our breath, digestion and heart then you will have a reasonable understanding as to help yourself.

Quick things to avoid:-

Eating on the go - confuses your ANS - resting and taking time before eating. Eat mindfully and take your time.

Mouth breathing

Not getting enough rest and recovery time

Anything that triggers inflammation - which includes over exercise.

[Ppiman]

Thinking I had vagal AF, the cardiologist who I saw to me at length about it and assured me it was highly unusual and more an Internet phenomenon than a proven clinical entity - at least in the sense of any irritation of the nerve itself. The term is however used to suggest a possible "trigger" of AF to separate it from "adrenergic" AF. Is that what you meant by the term?

Steve

[Palpman]

A recent study in Finland found vitamin D supplements to decrease Afib by up to 30%. I have started taking 25 ug and so far so good.

[Brandue]

Check out Dr. Randall Wolf out of Huston Texas. He has videos on YouTube and is a big believer in Vagel Afib. Mine is definitely Vagel induced. Good luck