HELP, I don't know what to do

[Bodydoctor12]

Hello all,

I'm looking for a bit of collective advice.

I have had serious side effects from the BISOPROLOL I was taking, song burning cold aches in my hands and feet as if they are about to go into pins and needles mode and so I was advised by my NHS cardio at Barts Hospital to change to VERAPAMIL.

I slowly reduced my Biso from 7.5 to 6.25 to 5 and noticed that my heart rte began to creep up. I've now, on the advice of the pharmacist, swapped the Bisoprolol for the Verapamil and despite the fact that it was 4 days ago my heart rate has continued to climb. Resting it's in the 75-90 range and when I get up and about its going up to the 90 -120 range, and I don't feel great.

I'm in persistent Afib for about 14 moths now and its been pretty asymptomatic while I've been on the Bisoprolol. I've still got the weird sensations in my hands and feet and I don't know what to do. My GP suggests (by email) doubling the dose to 240 mg, 120 mg 2x day, I'm currently taking 120mg once a day.

Has anyone had these side effects or even symptoms like this? Should I give it a few more days with the current dose of Verapamil or double the dose. I understand that Verapamil doesn't work for some people. I'm getting anxious with all this as I'd been feeling fine bar the side effects and I know that anxiety exacerbates everything. I'm doing breath work and somatic therapy so working on myself along the lines too. I take Vit B12, Zinc, Magnesium, COQ10 and I'm also on thyroxine ( low dose).

Thanks for your help with this.

Mary

[mjames1]

If you're not tolerating the beta blockers, you can ask your doctor about switching to a calcium channel blocker such as diltiazem. Serve similar functions but may have a different side effect profile. Does with me.

Jim

[Bodydoctor12 in reply to mjames1]

hi Jim,

Verapamil is a calcium channel blocker. So I have switched. I will ask about Diliatzem too. I take 120mg in the morning and has been suggested that I take one at night too.

[Hidden]

Just a thought .......... what time of day were you originally prescribed to take Bisoprolol ?

I was originally told to take it by my Cardio King in the morning. All this did for me apart from slow my HR was give me massive and random nose bleeds. I went back to my GP and she said take it at night. That was about mid 2010. I did her bidding and have never had a problem since. Not even a slight bloody nose. Nothing at all and my HR continues with a nice 64 to 67 bpm. I'm on 5mg.

Has anyone suggested you take it at night ?

John

[Bodydoctor12 in reply to Hidden]

hello John, thanks for your feedback. I was taking 5mg in the morning and 2.5, then 1.25 mg each evening too. It’s worth a try certainly if this Verapamil doesn’t have an effect. My liver enzymes are up too, transaminase and another one so I’m not tolerating it very well. It’s pity because they kept my heart rate in the 70’s and I felt good. It’s not a very low rate for the amount I was taking when I compare to other people though!

[Hidden in reply to Bodydoctor12]

TBH, that dose of Bisoprolol seems to me totally screwed up. What a shambles. Forget talking to GP's ........... bloody useless. Problem is ..... speaking as an old git, all the new GP's are cloned to a different thinking than older GP's. They seemed to be taught to play with drugs rather than look at drugs properties and see how they suit a patients condition. If your surgery employs a Pharmacist, consult the Pharmacist .... forget the GP.

My surgery has one such staff member and she is bloody amazing - brilliant in fact. This seems to be the way in this new world of a clapped out, broken down, irrelevant NHS.

Sound commentry from CD on this by the way.

John

[Tomred in reply to Hidden]

when first prescribed by gp, bisoprolol it was 5mg which totally wiped me out , then seen ep, who asked was it a young dr who prescribed 5mg, i said it was, he then told me they were taught to go low and slow, 2nd ep told me the same.

[CDreamer]

I know nothing about Verapmil other than it’s a calcium channel blocker rather than a beta blocker so works in an entirely different way to the beta blockers.

I would suggest that the symptoms you are now experiencing could possibly be beta blocker withdrawal symptoms and I would talk to your doctor and/or pharmacist about titrating down very slowly from Bisoprolol. Women tend to have a lot more problems with Beta Blockers than men, you will find quite a few threads about the subject on this forum.

Increased heart rate, BP and anxiety are typical withdrawal symptoms for those who have problems tolerating beta blockers - said with experience as I had to stop cold turkey for other reasons and not till I was through it all did I realise what a truly horrific experience it was and it took months to get through.

I do hope you have a sympathetic doctor who will support and suggest alternatives and help you through this difficult time.

[Bodydoctor12]

Hello,

Thanks for this response. I was wondering if it was withdrawals I was feeling because I do feel weird, the feelings in my feet start almost as soon as I'm standing up. My GP is lovely but his suggestion of doubling the dose as a first step doesn't sit well with me. In fact he suggested going cold turkey and just switching over while my pharmacist cautioned against that. I reduced from 7.5 to 6.25 and then to 5 over a period of a few weeks. He said I could then just switch, which is what I did. I'm trying to drink as much water as I can to try and flush it through but realise this might take longer than I expected.

Thanks for this feedback, it's made me feel somewhat reassured about all of this. The whole experience is pushing me towards Steve Hunter and the mini-maze. I just don't want to deal with these meds!

Best wishes for the New Year everyone.

Mary

[Buffafly in reply to Bodydoctor12]

Give verapamil a chance. It will take a while for the bisoprolol effects to wear off. I take 180 diltiazem, used to be 240, and as you are able to ‘double up’ by taking two a day I would try it temporarily. It’s still not a very high dose.

[Lenlec]

I was switched from bisoprolol to diltaizem

[JOY2THEWORLD49]

Hi

Diltiazem works on heart rate and BP but try lower dose as the drop was substantial for me and I had to quickly reduce to 120mg.

Unusual side effects you say is Bisoprolol.

Patience whilst you find the best meds that helps you.

We are all different.

cheers JOY. 73. (NZ)

[KMRobbo]

I took 120mg verapamil extended release for about 20 months for paroxysmal AFib. It was the only rate control med I ever took that had No side effects! ( we arevall different) The 120mg tablets or capsules I took were called "Half securon".

The 240mg tabs were "Securon".

Not medically trained but I woud try the higher dose, as it is not the max dose anyway and see how it is.

Unfortunately my AFib progressed and I had breakthoughs . I obtained a supply of 40mg standard release verapamil and used to take an extra 1 or 2 of these to combat the Afib increaseed rate. Eventually I had to go on flecainide.

Best wishes

[Eliktrick]

have you tried diltiazem? Also how’s your diet? Age? Wondering how long you have been suffering.. sounds terrible. Have you had an ablation?

[Bodydoctor12 in reply to Eliktrick]

hi, I’m 63, slim, quite fit, no BP or cholesterol issues and I use intermittent fasting as a lifestyle choice 16/8.

The feelings in my hands and legs are the reason why I’m changing over from BISOPROLOL as they can be quite painful. Withdrawal from the BB seems to have exacerbated them but yesterday was a bit better. I will continue with 120mg until the end of the week ( one week taking it) before increasing the dose.

Thanks for everyone’s feedback. It’s been really reassuring and helpul in reducing my anxiety.

Mary

[Ppiman]

Tingling like that, often accompanied by a hot feeling, might possibly be from a condition called peripheral neuropathy. This is more common as we age and is something I get in my feet but once did feel it in my hands. I don't think it's anything to be overly worried about at all.

If that were the cause, it would be a coincidence that it happened when the bisoprolol was being taken, and might explain its continuing now you have switched to verapamil.

Other than that, you might have Raynaud's syndrome, a condition in which the fingers and toes can go white and feel cold or like hot-aches? I think I have read that beta blockers and similar can worsen this?

I would ask your pharmacist or, better, GP.

Steve

[Bodydoctor12 in reply to Ppiman]

hello Ppiman, I do associate it with beta blockers as I’ve never had anyhh to big like this before and I’ve never had any circulation problems before taking these drugs. It’s made me suffer with cold hands and feet and an increased sensitivity to the cold generally. I’m 63 so not really in the ‘old age’ bracket yet and I have always had good health prior to developing AF (even then) until starting these drugs 6 months ago. So yes, it feels like a peripheral neuropathy as it’s akin to the feeling just before getting pins and needles and the pharmacist said it’s a very rare side effect. So who knows. I don’t like it at all and I hope it resolves. Thanks for your feedback.

Mary

[Ppiman in reply to Bodydoctor12]

I was in my early sixties when my PN began but with hot feet so it's not really an "old age" complaint, I suppose. From what you describe, it sounds more like Raynaud's, which my wife and son both get. I've read that beta blockers can worsen this condition. There is a whole raft of other possible side effects from beta-blockers, some awful but most of them rare, I gather.

Steve