Having had 10 cardioversions and two ablations that left me a shell of my former self and medically traumatised me and damaged my heart, I implore you all to look deeper within yourself and attend to any old trauma from childhood any time in your life that has contributed to your carrying fear worry and anxiety.
In my case there was never anything wrong with my physical heart it was all driven by lifelong worry fear and anxiety that finally pushed me over the edge after 10 years of terrible debilitating stress having to do with my involvement in my supremely dysfunctional toxic alcoholic family where I tried to go in to be the saviour and save my mother from the mismanagement of my alcoholic meth addicted brother whom she had appointed her Power of Attorney which eventually killed her.
I spent 8 years trying to put that aituation right and get her into my care. After she died in my arms in the hospital where I had put her at the end of a decade of my brother's medical and financial negligence where she she ended up with preventable stage four bone cancer undiagnosed until the very end. my mother had breast cancer and a mastectomy in 2004 period the doctor a few days before she died who diagnosed her with stage four bone cancer told me that her form of breast cancer could easily have been managed with hormonal treatment and that it did not have to develop into bone cancer. my Brother completely neglected her medical care during that last 8 yearshe was in control of her life, moving her out of her home to another state and keeping her captive in a seedy residential motel room.
As much as I tried to help her I was no match for the dysfunctional system that worked against me no matter what I tried to do as the only non-alcoholic in my family -- and the family bealer and the only one with common sense capable of care ( I am also a massage therapist and professional caregiver) I wasn't allowed to do the job that I knew I was capable of doing.
This alone broke my heart because it means my brother killed her . Within a year I also lost my father under very stressful circumstances and that's when my heart went out of rhythm. it was all emotional. My heart with stood so much abuse before she finally began to quiver.
My AFIB came from a lifetime of heartbreak. Lifetime of worry from unhealed early childhood trauma and this it after decades of psychotherapy. but most psychotherapist are still not trauma informed. so it's Band-Aids on cancer.
Book recommendations:
"The Body Keeps the Score" by the brilliant Bessell Vander Kolk MD
There is an epidemic of AFIB in America and yet the cardiologists are completely CLUELESS as to what is causing it!!
That's a problem right there. In order to cure a condition you have to know the cause of that condition. And that's the FIRST thing a doctor should be looking for.
But doctors today work for a big business. The word cure has been removed from the doctors' vocabulary. They are no longer asking the most important question a doctor should be asking: "WHY?".
Because doctors are not asking WHY? they don't know the root cause of anything and they're not interested in knowing. DOCTORS TREAT SYMPTOMS.
They're not interested in why. They're not interested in you as a person. That's not their training:
Doctors don't know you . A doctor treating ANY serious condition (especially a heart condition) should know EVERYTHING about you!!
When you first meet with your cardiologist they should be asking questions like :
How are you feeling about being you right now?
How is your family?
How are things going at home?
How many kids do you have?
How are they doing?
Do you spend enough time with them?
Do you have any animals at home -- a dog or a cat? Do you take walks in the fresh air every day? How are your stress levels?
Do you pray or meditate?
What brings you Peace? How do you relax?
Do you like your job? How are ypur Finances? How is your marriage.: are you happy?
? Do you have any problems that are weighing upon you?
Do have a lot of stress? Did you have a happy childhood ?
Is there any history of trauma in your family? Alsoholism? Divorce? has anyone in your family ever been incarcerated?
Did anyone ever abuse you as a child? Scream at you? Hit you or sexually molest you?
Have you had any losses in your life recently? Losses of loved ones that you may be grieving or yet to grieve? Car accidents or similar shocks to your nervous system??
The medical machine is not asking any of these questions and the doctors and nurses are just staring into computer screens robotically asking you questions about your height or your medications.
They don't know YOU at all.
Just walking into a medical building is frightening for most people because the system is completely authoritarian and devoid of empathy and love (although occasionally there may be some kind people who show up in your hospital room or ER cubicle). But for the most part it's just really scary .
My blood pressure shoots up just walking into a medical building and seeing a white coat.! And my heart starts banging in my chest. with good reason; these people are not worthy of my trust and they scare me. There is an actual syndrome called "white coat syndrome". Because of this I always ask them to retake my blood pressure at the end of the visit after I've had a chance to calm down ( if indeed I ever do).
✨The NHS is far superior from what I have heard to the US. You Brits are lucky!
This is what's wrong with medicine today in America. Did you know that the curriculum in medical schools in America is dictated by Big Pharm?
The heart is not a piece of meat that you man handle or burn and freeze into submission! The heart is a divine instrument and the electrical signals that govern the heart are precious. They can go haywire if there is internal upset that is not being addressed not being loved not being held not being acknowledged .
Please PLEASE ..... do not give your power away to cardiologists or to any other representative of this current conventional medical system.
We are all responsible for the care of our own organs in our own bodies.
The body follows the mind. You have a BODYMIND. They are inseparable.
Whatever state your mind is in right now, your body will reflect. That's just how it works, Folks. It is Law.
where there is high stress either chronic or acute the heart becomes an alarm system! It's signals terror and there's plenty to be scared of in our world right now.
People are stressed out to the max subjected to any number of assaults:
EMFs TV, microwaves, computers, life being forced onto screens,toxic environments, overworked, underpaid, polluted air & water, corporate greed, corrupt politicians and junk food (which isn't even food ) and everyone and everything being speeded up to Internet speed period humans are not designed to operate on Internet speed! We currently live in a mentally ill society in case you haven't noticed .
The heart was built to hold love and to pump the blood that keeps your body alive it was not meant to hold fear .... ever .
I paid a terrible price for both ablations I submitted myself to even though my gut was screaming not to do it , they worked on me for over a year after eight or nine cardioversions and convince me that I could die if I didn't have the ablation even though I knew that wasn't true I'd like to my cardiologist and I guess I wanted to please him and besides.. I needed a hero in my life. That was a projection on my part -- and I have lived to regret those ablations every single day because they hurt me -- perhaps irreparably and altered the person I had always been.. and not for the better.
I am a highly sensitive person .. a high energy athletic person, a gifted passionate soul a performing artist and a singer. That ablation killed my desire to sing. I have always had a very strong creative impulse and it feels like I was altered . No longer to be able to be myself I feel like a zombie. It killed my passion for life and it left me exhausted and barely able to function.
My voice, my pipes still work but there's no power.. no wind beneath my sails. I always had lungs like Pavarotti and now I have shortness of breath and debilitating chronic fatigue
After the second ablation I spent a year in bed - they almost killed me. That was a year and a half ago and ai continue to feel like a zombie.
My heart is in normal sinus rhythm most of the time now -- but at what price??
it dances around after I eat certain foods and in times of high stress.
But what's the point of having regular heart rhythm if you're a zombie?
ABLATION: they make it sound like it's a walk in the park this ablation. They don't tell you what they're actually going to do (or what they did)and they don't take into consideration the fact that it could alter who you are as a person. These doctors are completely unconscious and I think they are very dangerous.
I deeply regret ever submitting to these two ablations not to mention what the anaesthesia did to my kidneys, liver and brain and that's on top of 10 cardioversions in which I was put under. These things are not to be taken lightly!! They can do great damage to your body on top of the drugs they put into you.
Think TWICE before you submit to any of it!!
YOU ARE THE BOSS Of YOUR BODY AND YOUR HEALTH! !
I deeply regret ever submitting myself to that Frankenstein table. It was a terrifying ordeal Just terrifying.
This may be tough for you to hear, And I'm sorry. My purpose is not meant to frighten it is a warning to wake you up. I am implore you to pay attention and dig deep to the root cause of your AFIB.
Look underneath the hood of tour own life and see what needs healing emotionally. .
Your heart is a miraculous instrument, built for Love. Treat it like a newborn child -- it is the central son of your entire life ☀️💖☀️
Treat it like the miracle that it is and
don't let any surgeon manhandle your heart!!!!
⭐️A CARDIAC ABLATION SHOULD BE A VERY LAST RESORT AFTER YOUVE LEFT NO STONE UNTURNED⭐️
Unless it's life and death I do not recommend it.
I DEEPLY REGRET the ablations I had.
I was medically traumatised. These ablations did me great most likely irreversible harm. ( I say most likely because I pray that God can restore me to wholeness).
But that would be a ✨miracle of God. i'm still hoping for one.
The Hippocratic Oath states that doctors take upon entering the medical profession will "do no harm".
I send all my love and hugs to your beautiful hearts and wishes for steady beats, beautiful music and a blessed holiday season .
Sparky
💖✨💖✨💖✨💖✨💖✨💖✨💖✨
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Sparky143
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I was sad to read your life journey and what you’ve been through. I do agree with you that trauma, worry and stress in life can contribute to heart issues such as our Afib…and I could identify a lot with many things you have been through, with my own life, sadly. I know the experiences haven’t helped my situation and probably contributed to it.
I don’t know what the answer is and I don’t think we’re going to find it either unfortunately, but I do wish you peace and hope you can find some form of closure to your past experiences and find some happiness in the future.
Gabor mates theories are very interesting and make a lot of sense. I’ve been a fan of his for a while.
What exactly has happened to you after your ablations? I’m 15 months post ablation and I too wish I hadn’t had it. I feel the same in that it has completely altered how my heart functions. Like you say I no longer get af but I was better before when I did. Now my heart feels super sensitive all the time and I’m left with total fatigue. Anything and everything I do seems to upset it. The more days go by the more I regret it.
Ohhhhhh you have my full empathy. much the same here it doesn't feel like my heart anymore even though it's not doing anything crazy I feel compromised and everything else that you said. The fatigue is unremitting. I feel I am still healing. I pray I can heal. The body is a self healing organism I have not given up yet but it was devastating.
I would caution anyone reading this considering an ablation to have that only be a last resort and even then I wouldn't do it.
Blessing and love to ypu. feel free to contact me any time. Sparky 💖💖
GABOR MATÉ is my hero. I consider him to be one of the most brilliant awake doctors living on the planet today and I consider him to be a Trauma Shaman. Because of him I am now finally beginning to unravel the severe early childhood trauma that led to my AFIB.
I avoided an ablation around 20 years ago, and a friend had one at the same time. He’s now in not such a great state, I’ve changed my diet and exercise regime and achieved far more than any of his ablations seem to have managed to do.
I was 23 when diagnosed, 5 years ago I was told I was in permanent AF. My father had it, died at 86 of plain old age. My 33 year old daughter has it too, so evidently hereditary. Tried meds because the docs told me I absolutely needed them, but they made me soooo much worse, each one worse than the previous one. Round 4 and I said no. I’ll risk it. “You’ll likely shorten your life” I was told. Better short than unable to function as I was on meds!!
So fast forward 18 months, and I’ve never felt better. Still in AF, but heart beat has slowed to a testing of 60-80 depending on the day. Still irregular but I workout 4 times a week, eat and drink sensibly and can now give my supposed cardiologist the 🖕🏼
My friend on the other hand has been forced into retirement, against his will, but it has become too dangerous for him to continue working.
What I hate is the sneering scorn from the cardiologist when you politely decline the option of an ablation... more or less, 'Well that's your own funeral!' and then he refuses to discuss any of your other issues, the choices of drugs and other symptoms you suffer before kicking you out of his office. Many of these guy are on a professional treadmill themselves of course, with targets of holding x number of ablations each month and year, and criticised if they don't meet their targets. Technically it may put x % of people back into sinus rhythm but it is questionable whether it will put them in a better physical state than before or feeling better in themselves. For me it will only be a last resort and I am one of those very fortunate ones who seems to be getting better at present just with beta blockers and anticoagulants. I am in permanent AF but rarely notice it, and this morning my BP monitor which usually picks it up, showed it was normal.
To be honest, although he didn't use those words, as he is French, he more or less said the same thing. He just said, 'I haven't got any time to explain anything to you. You either have an ablation or you can take this other drug, Nebivolol (which he refused to tell me anything about, even its name (he used the marketing name) until I insisted) and said you will still be in permanent AF. ' He then refused me access to a Holter monitor as it would say nothing different. There was absolutely no offer of any other help and it was implied I was wasting his time. He was the worst doctor I have ever seen anywhere, quite surprising as most of the medical personnel in France are superb. Of course I will go to another cardiologist if I need to.
I mentioned this as it is not always the case that your doctor has your best interests at heart. (to use an appropriate metaphor!)
Yeah, that resonates with my experience. Diagnosed with paroxysmal AF in January 2010 (aged 65) admitted to A & E with falling BP - like - an average of 136/80 down to 76/50 in 6 hours or so. In A & E the doctor diagnosed paroxysmal AF, Cardiologist discussed with me the way forward which included ablation. The idea of someone BBQ ing my heart didn't appeal so I rejected Ablation. When in doubt do nothing ! Leave it to the universe ! Stayed with medications.
About 12 months later I acquired enough evidence to prove that my AF was triggered by food. Because of my symptoms at the time my GP had blood tests done to check for IBS and Coeliac Disease. All clear. I then consulted a Nutritionist who developed a diet plan.
Stayed with the meds, adopted the diet plan and eventually my AF subsided. Even today I am still on meds but my AF now occurs 3 to 5 times a year, that said, this year is the most AF free I've been ever ! Even with diet I am now able to return to some foods that years ago (2011) I had abandoned. I am now 78 and working still, part time, driving buses. No sweat.
Best decision I ever made was not going down the ablation option. Just awaiting the results of a recent Echocardiogram when I hope to put on here comparisons of heart condition.
However there is a caveat ............. my diagnosis accompanied by the start of treatment was in place and in effect some 9 hours after my beginning to feeling unwell, which to me, could best be described as going down with flu. The falling BP occurred in this 9 hour time span.
I get it ablation may not work for some people however, without tempting fate here goes. - I had a sucessful PVI x4 ablation in August 2021 and apart from a brief AF encounter after post 1 Week ablation (bought on by overeating spicy food (Jeanjeannies theory) I've been AF free.
I feel so much better and stronger in myself both physically and mentally - Meds have been reduced and that old beast has been kicked into the long grass for the time being.?? Is it luck? Well good luck to those who are considering an ablation - I didn't hesitate and boy am I glad I didn't.!!
I sometimes feel I'm lucky after reading about so many failed ablations. Hence tagging on lucky in my reply- I presume from your reply that you too had a sucessful ablation?
No, not yet, I have a consult for it at the end of the year. I avoided it for a very long time. Being on here, I've had to learn how to put things into perspective. If I didn't, I would never consider ablation. You can see this across many things, reviews, et al, that the people with negative outcomes are the most present. Especially when it comes to healthcare. Absolutely, there are negative outcomes, but it's easy to end up thinking it is more often than it is when you read the posts on here, that is all I'm trying to say.
And dare I also add, that on here certain people who want to talk about positive outcomes have been made to feel most unwelcome at times.
I had my ablation at St Barts by an experienced heart consultant who was top in his field. I jumped at the chance and I'm glad I did! Hope you have a similar positive outcome!
I agree with your last comment too about being made to feel unwelcomed when talking about positive outcomes on this site. I temper my positive news bacause I don't want to offend the people who have had negative outcomes! Human nature I suppose!!
I’m sorry for the trauma you’ve suffered. But speaking for myself, I worked for the Nhs for 27 years, you did acknowledge it’s better than the American health system, I cared deeply for my patients granted I worked in mental health so had time to build rapport and empathy with them. Me and my colleagues never knowingly hurt or harmed anyone, sometimes we got it wrong but never intentionally. I hope you can move on and mend your broken self, I’m sorry you feel like you do about your ablations and cardio versions but for some they are the answer, for others a different path needs to be trod. Good luck with your recovery.
I commend you for your service. Unfortunately caring deeply can also mean you take on the ills of your patients resulting in damage to your own health, as explained in one of the videos.
You identified important factors when speaking of yourself - empathy and time to build rapport. Whatever the treatment be it a shaman ritual or cardioversion or an ablation it is the reparative intent of the healer which has been shown to be most efficacious for self healing. We literally do heal ourselves - given the resources and the right conditions.
Unfortunately those factors a are sadly lacking in the current system where doctors and nurses push around computers on trolleys, are expected to attain impossible targets given demand and hardly have time to look at, let alone speaking to a patient. You can only speak to a GP via 10 minutes phone call - which many, many people for all sorts of reasons just cannot do - stroke patients for instance. This is no longer care for our health.
We need systemic change.
I am sad for those who work in the NHS currently (and probably all health care systems) as staff are burnt out, feel undervalued, are often abused and under constant stress themselves. How can we expect them to then provide good care?
I guess I was lucky at work that i worked as an OT TI so could to a certain extent had space and time to work in a holistic way within a supportive team. We offered tai chi most days not just for patients but any staff who wanted to participate, some days there would be patients, housekeeping a consultant all joining in. We also placed a great deal of emphasis on being outdoors facilitating walk and talk groups, gardening etc. art featured most days in our activities as did the more standard OT menu of daily living skills, anxiety management, relaxation, mindfulness and sensory groups. I agree that caring deeply and stress through unreasonable work demands can have a detrimental impact on one’s own health I’m a case in point I guess a cqc visit brought on an AF trip to a&e. Eventually I decided that although I still loved parts of my job the job satisfaction wasn’t as great as it had been all the bits that made a real difference to patients where getting squeezed out, hence I retired. Guess we’re singing from the same hymn sheet you just do it more eloquently.
you were fortunate that you worked in a supportive team - I worked solo so burned brighter (maybe?) but extinguished very quickly for lack of supportive environments.
The whole world regarding health care needs to change. In the USA as I've said so many times, our insurance companies have been allowed to rule what the Drs do. Drs are no longer doctoring. They follow the protocols laid out by the insurance companies. The insurance companies dictate how long the Drs spend with a patient. That time varies according to what type of insurance you can afford. My friend has better insurance. She waits 5-10 minutes to see her Dr and spends up to an hour with the Dr. I have insurance that I can afford and I spend an hour waiting and lucky if I get 5-10 minutes with the Dr. Actually my insurance plan states I'm to get 15 minutes with the Dr. Never happens. Insurance companies also decide a lot of times what meds you can take. When I was first diagnosed with Afib and put on pharma meds, which I tried to take but can't, the nurse said the insurance company won't allow anything like warfarin because they don't want to pay for all the extra Dr visits to have your clotting times tested. So the Drs prescribed Eliquis because it will be cheaper for the insurance companies. It wouldn't have mattered if warfarin would have been a better choice. What mattered was that the Eliquis was more cost effective for the insurance company. Even my friend with the better insurance has had to spend countless times in the past when her husband was alive, arguing with their insurance company on the phone, because their insurance decided, not their Dr, that her husband had to go on a different med, when the med he was taking was working fine for him. But hey, the med the insurance company wanted him to take, cost the insurance company much less to cover. They didn't care that the med he was taking was working fine for him. It was all about the money the insurance company could save. Luckily my friend and her husband had a good Dr who would intervene and keep him on the med he was taking. Well my friends Dr recently retired because he was tired of dealing with the insurance companies. He was a good Dr who cared about his patients. A rarity. He said he also had to spend too much time logging everything about the patients into the computer which took time from the patients. Then you have the Drs who put blinders on and just follow the protocols of the insurance companies. And by doing that they are causing harm. We are getting Drs graduating who aren't being taught how to treat patients. Just treat the symptoms. Unfortunately there's too much of that now. Symptoms have a cause but cause is no longer part of the equation. I hear these same things from others in this forum who live in other countries. This new woke culture being taught in our schools and universities is a big problem. People are being allowed into medical school, not based on whether they can study hard and learn what they need to learn to become good, competent Drs. They are allowed because now society is too rascist or to sexist or to whatever. So many people accepted into med school should not be. I really hate to see what the future of healthcare will be. And like Sparky I have lost confidence in the medical system. Based on how I've been treated. I know some of you will rear up and say how wonderful your care is. Great. But it's not like that for everyone. Not in the USA. Not the UK. Not anywhere. Lastly I will say politics have been allowed in health care. Not a good thing. What political affiliation a patient is should have no bearing on their care. But it can be. I wish everyone in the USA would read an article about the history of the American insurance companies. By John Steele Gordon. The title is A Short History of American Medical Insurance. It really gives a good insight of how medical insurance came to be here in the USA and how it's come to be what it is today. Like many things it started out to be a good thing, until someone came along and saw that it could be a money maker............
Here in South Africa we have Medical Aid which works differently from Insurance - you mention Warfarin - this is their first choice as it is cheap and they have no problem with paying for the extra tests! - if you want one of the new anti coagulants the member has to 20% of the cost - however the generic Xarelto is now available and although it's also made by Bayer, looks exactly like the original except for the name, it is much cheaper! The Med Aids also have a drug formulary of drugs they pay for, and what are called PMB conditions (illnesses) that must be paid for, but there is no problem with getting the drug of your choice if it is not on the formulary, provided you pay for it, usually from your 'savings' I have no problem with the system, there are various plans to choose from. To save themselves any problems, many doctors expect the patient to pay and then claim from their society, and there are the public hospitals for those who do not have Med Aid.
Odd how the different medical systems around the world view the cost of the same meds. Seems to be the opposite for these drugs in the USA and where you live. 🤷 We have to go with what we are provided with I guess. Have a great day! Take care.
WARNING - this is a written more as a personal blog of my observations, thoughts, study and personal experiences. It is contradictory in places but I can be contradictory, as are most of us.
Many, many people have recognised that our present ‘norm’ is making us sick - but how to change our norms when if you speak out you are dismissed and sometimes abused? Most of us when we are sick visit our Doctors hoping for a quick fix, whether or not we believe they can help us - I do and my guess is you all do as well! So we, as patients, are left in this position of I feel sick so I need to take a treatment which will fix me. My doctor says this will help - I trust them so that’s what I will do.
I’m going to say something now which I know will upset a lot of people so if you are easily upset about the changing the status quo, pease look away now - I believe that in the long run, possibly the very long run, the slow but sure crumbling of our collective health systems will benefit us as it will force us to look and reframe our current ‘norms’. Unfortunately many will not survive.
If you liked Gabor Mate you might also like Dr Kendrick’s new book - The Clot Thickens - were he puts the science behind what is often dismissed in the medical profession - the affect of trauma and strain (chronic stress) being the No 1 cause of heart diseases - along with the drugs prescribed to ‘help’. Dr Kendrick is fighting a constant battle - currently against the Mail Online and Sunday Mail in the High Court - for disagreeing and speaking out against conventional medical thinking on use of statins to reduce inflammation and cholesterol thought to cause heart disease whereas he discusses the detrimental affect of stress and trauma on the endocrine axes which causes literal ‘burn out’ of normal function.
Unfortunately, unlike Kendrick who is a GP, most doctors in secondary care value their careers so are unlikely to speak out against accepted conventional treatments - even if they do recognise that trauma and our self destructive behaviours are the cause of nearly all illness. Other people who I have followed and found incredibly insightful are Deepak Chapra - described as incoherent babbling strewn with scientific terms - Donna Eden - Energy Medicine and Robin Skynner - (John Cleese’s psychiatrist).
Unlike other writers such as Gabor and Stephen Porges (Polyvagal theory), Malcom Kendrick has looked at numerous highly rated epidemiological studies and theories which have proposed that trauma affects not only the Autonomic Nervous System but also the Endocrine system. He has a rather cynical and sometimes aggressive writing style so not for everyone!
All these people have had to withstand aggressive peer pressure, abuse and yet they still persist. If you think outside the box your career is dammed and certainly several doctors who I know personally keep their wholistic work quiet if they want to continue to work in the NHS - which they do as it’s the only way they can survive economically.
There are many doctors like Gabor Mate who have been speaking out about trauma and many more treating it. A friend of mine, who is a Consultant in the NHS, trained with Gabor Mate but has now developed their own style. I am still receiving sacro-cranial treatment and it truly is amazing.
Trauma as a cause for disease - especially heart disease, diabetes and Autoimmune diseases has been written about since the late 1800’s. Somatic illness is though hard to treat, takes time and is very expensive and is none-mechanical, doesn’t make huge profits for companies and unfortunately most of us want a ‘quick fix’ to relieve our pain and are not prepared to take the unscenic route of delving deep into what is the cause for ourselves.
Unfortunately most people do not have the access to the therapies or the resources to pay for them that they cost - and it’s a lot! - so we go back to our doctor for a pill……..
My thoughts EXACTLY! I totally agree with everything you’ve written! We sound so alike it’s uncanny.
I recently started bad bouts of atrial flutter. I quickly realised this correlated with recommencing swimming - I hadn’t been swimming (lengths) since before covid hit. I did four swims in quick succession and….. bam!… I’m in A&E with chronic Atrial Flutter. I’ve had the occasional AF episode in the past two years, but it thumped then, not like this real flutter it gets now.
My neck was feeling particularly stiff and tight after what I describe as “unusual activity”. I quickly realised that the head movement in both breast and front crawl strokes (compounded by a shiny new, tight, swim cap) had probably aggravated my dorsal vagus nerve (the one that controls heart rate, etc). Last week I had a full ultrasound, which showed a perfectly normal heart, no issues at all.
After a week AF-free, on Friday 18th Nov I went to see a superb osteopathic therapist to have some release work done to my uncomfortable neck (bones AND muscles), shoulders, and chest (she even put on gloves and released seized-up muscles on inside of my jaw - they were sooo tight it’s a wonder I can even speak at all! All went well, everything felt looser and much more comfortable ……. and then bam!…. the AF kicked-off about seven hours later.
I got over that episode and no AF for a week. Then I went to see her again on Friday 25th and within an hour the AF went off again! This time I managed to instantly stop it by doing some simple yoga neck stretching.
I truly believe this indicates I’ve got classic vagal AF - all brought on by continuous stress over the past several years! I won’t bore you with the details, but it’s probably pretty much what most of us go through on a day to day basis in this modern age we live in.
The question I have now is; if I keep my neck, jaw, shoulders and “head” well-maintained and fit (relaxed!!) and no longer have any AF episodes as a result - how the hell to I get off the Edoxaban and metoprolol the medics have started me on?!? 🤔
By any chance were you doing breast stroke? I was warned to avoid by my Chiro and always swim head straight - that worked!
Now there is a question……. How to get off the medication?
Beta Blockers are notoriously difficult to come off so please get advice from your GP and be very careful, no matter what is said, to taper down very, very slowly to avoid rebound. Beta Blockers are also adrenaline blockers so as soon as you reduce you MAY (not everyone has this reaction) notice increased anxiety - so have a practised plan in place to cope - breathing exercises + relaxation/meditation + self talk - I am only experiencing these symptoms because …… + exercise and other good lifestyle practices.
Coming off anticoagulants is a different question and one I would be very hesitant to comment on. I feel very ambivalent about anyone stopping anticoagulants unless instructed to by a doctor as I believe you cannot say if you are truly AF/AFl free just because you don’t notice it. There are stroke risk factors which may remain even if you don’t have AF/AFl. The other consideration is that there is some evidence to show that coming off anticoagulants can actually increase your stroke risk - so again go with great care and with medical advice.
I used to have frequent Chiro adjustment but we recently moved so I now see an Osteo who practices craniosacral therapy - in 4 visits not one adjustment but neck releases and along with daily neck exercises I can keep loose. I would recommend looking for craniosacral therapy.
I quite agree with everything you've said. Interesting what you were advised ref breaststroke - I usually do alternate one length breast stroke, one length front crawl, then finish with a couple of lengths of back stroke. My chest and shoulder muscles have definitely been tight since recommencing swimming and it’s something I’m working on.
If I don’t have any further AF I certainly won’t reduce or come off the meds without medical advice. It’s just so disappointing that I’m now stuck in the NHS “drugs cycle” and maybe not need to be. Fingers crossed!! 😁
And I’m meditating again and doing my yoga and stretching more regularly than I was previously. Stress creeps upon us, doesn’t it 🤨
You have experienced so much this lifetime and a lot of it is service to others, including this post. That is an awesome achievement. If you can't find it in you to do the previous things that brought you joy then delve into new possible hobbies and passions that your body can cope with. You may find untapped talents that you would not have found otherwise. Everything happens for a reason. I decided not to have an ablation after sitting waiting in the hospital for my first one and being told they had cancelled it. I took that as a sign that it was not in my best interests to go down that route. I just cope at home with the episodes and live with it. I am still happy with my decision. It was very interesting therefore to read your post.
I decided not to have an ablation when I told the first cardio Dr I had the meds were harming me. The meds were making everything worse. (I am ultra sensitive to pharma meds). This was during the first part of the pandemic. He was almost giddy and had to put his hand to his mouth telling me I'd have to have an ablation. I kid you not on my parents graves he did that. I'm thinking this guy is a Dr Frankenstein. No way. I looked at his reviews and they weren't good for the ablations he'd performed. I switched to another cardio Dr as soon as possible. Fortunately I've not had many episodes and I can convert on my own.
Now I'm dealing with the affects of the vaccines I had. Drs don't/won't discuss it. But that's another story. But one that needs to be discussed.
Belindalore well done. I was lucky that I couldn't be rescheduled for an ablation as the anti coags had made me bleed and I was anemic. So after a few months my GP rang me and I told him about my decision. He accepted it with no argument and wrote to the EP. That was two years ago and I've heard nothing since. I'm out of the system and that suits me. I self revert too after about twelve hours. I totally agree that the effects of the jab need to be discussed. Good luck.👍
Good luck to you also. We are in charge of our own destinies. I'm rather tired of some of these Drs who think they are God. 🙄 I long for the times when Drs doctored. Take care.
Karendeena. I'm very sorry to hear that. It's so worrying. I can't blame it on the jabs because I never had them. My AF kicked off in 2016. I still haven't a clue why. 😟💖
I don't really think they are interested in finding a cause. If they did too many patients might get better. Stress is certainly a cause but there are many other causes. I tried to talk to that first cardio Dr I had about any mineral or vitamin deficiencies that might have caused mine. OMG. The man blew a gasket just because I wanted to try to find out something. Hollered at me and started pointing his finger at me. Said he and the other Drs were trying to help me. Yeah right. When he saw the look I gave him for pointing his finger at me, he instantly pointed his finger towards the floor. The man had a screw loose. I switched Drs asap. Stress is one cause and also can aggravate and make Afib worse. Oh, ablations are money makers for these Drs. This Dr was really wanting me to get one. I figured since it was during the first part of the pandemic, patients weren't going for appts and he thought I'd be an easy one to convince to have it done cause he was probably short on money for his kids college fund. 😂I wasn't the stupid old woman he thought I was. 😁 I finally figured out that being dehydrated triggers my Afib and I recently took too much Tylenol for some pain and that also triggered it. Sometimes we know more than these "Drs".
You are fortunate and blessed. The one thing we all must remember is that We are all different. And I truly believe that too many Drs don't remember that. I'm not saying all Drs. Too many.
I don't think I have ever read another person's life experience, or reaction to it, that matched mine so closely. I agree ENTIRELY with what you are saying. Severe childhood trauma, decades of psychotherapy, alcoholism (in my case extremely violent, relentlessly cruel mother and stepfather) and psychiatrists/therapists/psychologists who instilled me with "pop culture" fads for treatment. What I've come to realize is that for the most part, depression and other mental issues, are almost always due to one thing: GRIEF. They discount this, perhaps to keep themselves in business, when it all boils down to pure emotional (heart) suffering. There were decades when therapists would push people to find "closure" for grief or loss, and if you didn't you weren't working hard enough. THERE IS NO CLOSURE. You just find a way to live your life beside the grief. It only makes sense that the heart suffers from all this. When I was twelve, I finally had a nervous breakdown due to ten years of unforgivable mental, emotional and physical abuse. My stepfather died suddenly from a heart attack just prior to my breakdown. I think I collapsed because I now realized my mother was going into high gear to destroy my spirit. I left home at age fifteen because I had been given a full scholarship to my choice of universities (Harvard, Berkeley, Yale, etc.). I was so driven to overcome the damage that I excelled in my career. I had a certain level of fame and fortune, but none of this buried the damage. After coming off antidepressants and getting Covid, I developed severe palpitations and AFIB. I refused ablations after reading the horror stories people suffered from them. I have chosen the path of natural treatment- a very special nattokinase supplement from Singapore-to prevent clotting. After taking it the first year my blood pressure went from 163/95 to 116/80. I take a tincture of motherwort and capsules of liquid hawthorn, and sometimes arjuna caps. While I still have palpitations (much less than before), I have not had an AFIB episode in a year. I can't tell you what it means to me to feel that someone has endured a similar evil and has survived so well. Heartfelt blessings to you!!
As a therapist I have, unfortunately, heard many similar stories of cruelty and trauma and I agree with you 100%.
Finding healing is different to finding ‘closure’ but no matter how much therapy you have, loss and trauma remains through life and often the best we can offer are tools to help one cope. As Freud said - ‘the aim of therapy is to lessen trauma to everyday unhappiness’ but that still does not address somatised trauma, sadly.
Dear Sparky. I live in the USA too. And I agree with you 1000%. Healthcare in the USA for many of us is no longer care. Since being on Medicare I have received the worst healthcare in my 70 years. Care is based on what insurance you can afford. Profit over patient. I see no caring. I see no reassurance. No compassion. No looking for a cause. Just here take these pills. Well I'm one of those who can't tolerate the pharma meds. So I'm convinced as soon as I told the first Dr I had after going on Medicare that I had problems with tolerating pharma drugs and when I told Drs when I was in the hospital the same thing, I was a problem patient. I had Drs through the years who knew I had problems taking pharma drugs but back then they were understanding and we would work with it. Now I feel more like I'm a freak and they don't have time nor want to try to help me. All they know is to throw pills at you and if they can't do that then you are a bother. Do no harm in the Hippocratic oath means nothing. I'm so sorry for all you've gone through. We are supposed to trust these Drs who are supposed to help us. Yes I agree with CDreamer who stated in one of her posts here, that Drs are getting burned out. But that's not the only reason for bad healthcare for far too many patients. You can read my reply to her to see how I feel about the healthcare system rather than repeat myself. And you can read about the Dr who told me I should get an ablation. I applaud you for telling your story. There are far too many stories that haven't been told. Healthcare in the USA has been going downhill for a very long time. Unfortunately I don't see it getting much better in the future.
Take care and be safe. We live in a different world.
Having in mind that the main game is named depopulation, and that they do not even hide it (Guidestones, Georgia, USA), I firmly believe that, in the case that someone succeeds to uncover the cause of cardiac arrhythmia and other "chronic" syndromes and disease, this person would be eliminated without mercy. Lounching new disease, reducing the quality of nurrishment, reducing the quality of medical care, increasing the worries and fear in population, banning the movement and the contacts among people and relatives etc., certainly bring them closer to their goal.
So true. Some people just don't want to believe the evil that surrounds us. My father, when he was alive, used to say Hell is here on earth. When I see what's happening in the world now, especially what is in your reply, how true his words are......
I wanted to add. Look at how many decades research has gone on to try to find a cure for cancer. Decades. Millions of dollars. It just boggles my mind that no cure has been found?? But the USA has these wonderful cancer centers, where not everyone who has cancer can even be admitted into unless you have the "right medical insurance" or deep pockets. Just think of all the money and jobs lost if a cancer cure was known because cancer patients could actually be healed. Can't have that happen. It truly is disgusting.
THEY DO NOT NEED US! Why would they cure us, from cancer or whatever else...? BTW, cancer occurs only when the natural immunity is supressed for some reason. They know it and they can manipulate it - it is the reason why the magic water has caused so many problems to the people - I suspect that the main cause is mercury, added as the "preservative" to magic water. In the beginning, the incidence of skin cancer has increased 20fold. It was the first noticed annomaly. Later, it was confirmed that the incidence of all kinds of cancer has increased enormously (do not remember the exact data).
Ugg. Jesus said, "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.."
I trust my gut and truth it shows me and I will never waver from that even though tragically for meI did when I allowed these doctors to intimidate me into those ablations. Having said that, some people have an ablation, it's successful and they sail through life feeling wonderful and God bless them. It was a huge mistake for this highly sensitive soul (huge) and it cost me dearly. I am seven decades young, like you. I'll never get these last few years back that I lost in the prime of my renewed singing career, It shut me down. I wonder if there are class-action lawsuits. I will look into it. Guy who did my 2nd one was supposedly the best in the world. I was only in atrial flutter at that point I should've left it the hell alone.
These doctors think they are God. The first time my cardiologist said that in an ablation they going to burn and freeze parts of your heart I was like, " The hell they are... that is insane. "
These Neanderthal technicians have no understanding of what the heart truly is: a sophisticated divine design and what these electrical signals are designed todo and what they mean and how they are connected to in other fields. I remember running the prospect of an ablation past a very brilliant Boston attorney friend of mine who said, "Ablation...Yeah… The jury's not out on that yet.." Her words still haunt me.
The reason I consented was because I was having a transference with my cardiologist. I fell in love with him and lost my critical thinking skills temporarily and I projected my need for a loving caring father onto him amd believed he would take care of me. Inyrusted him with my precious heart. this was irrational and came out of my own trauma wound. did well after he handed me off to the ablation surgeon I never heard from him again. He never called, he never visited my bedside, he never followed up with me to see how I was doing... nothing .....zippo. it's all totally abandoned by him which triggered me big time and my anger woke me up to what I had done to myself.
If you carry a childhood trauma wound your relationship with doctors and other authority figures can get very complicated and it's easy to project childhood needs onto a doctor when you go to them for help and are in a vulnerable position. and if you become sexually attracted to your cardiologist they can be even more complicated.
I've never heard anyone talk about this subject but I bet I'm not the only woman who made bad medical decisions because of an attraction to her doctor and because of an unhealed childhood trauma wound. Particularly around a father wound. you can really lose your critical thinking skills in a New York minute I am a very smart powerful woman but I got lost in that whole situation And impaired my judgement. caused me to go against my own intuition because my gut had been screaming " NOOOOOOOO!!!!!" every time an ablation was mentioned.
One thing this thing has taught me is to always trust my GUT. I will never ever again not trust my gut. My gut has never failed me - not once - but I have failed it when I allowed fear to override it.
Blessings to all your beautiful hearts on this AFIB journey,
TRUST YOUR GUT!
An Ablation should only be a last resort when you have explored all other options
With Compassion for myself and all who have suffered,
I fully feel your anger, I fully understand your dispair, I find no words to say how much I sympathise. In the minutes where you feel your frustration, remember that in the life, it is not possible to fail. Whatever the results, whatever the mistakes made, the truth remains - we have lived, we have lived to be 70. Many have not... so many of them...
I agree with you. Trust your gut. Like you with your ablation I let my guard down with the so called vaccines. Got the first two Moderna. For a long time I was embarrassed to even say I got them after I realized what was happening and how so many were having terrible adverse effects. I'd hoped I had dodged that bullet but I now have strange symptoms and It's taboo for any Dr to even discuss the vaccines. It's hard to admit sometimes that we trusted when we shouldn't have. The medical world is not what it once was when we were younger. It is profit over patient. Nothing more. No matter how sweet a Dr seems these days too many of us are nothing more than a number on an insurance policy. How those Drs sleep at night I have no idea. Please take care. You are not alone. I'm not an overly religious person but I do believe and I find some comfort knowing that these Drs who have caused harm will be judged and sent to Satan.
Yes. I sent you a private message. You should be alerted to it. To send a pm click on the persons little pic in front of the user name. So to pm me you would click on the pic of the parakeet. It should bring up my profile and at the top there will be something that says start chat. click on that and a box should come up where you can start a message. If you answer mine I sent you or you send me a pm and I don't answer right away it's because I'm probably busy with my 3 cats. It's pushing 8:30 p.m. where I am in central Florida and I'm getting ready to hit the sack. So don't think I'm ignoring you. Take care.
I regret having a five hour ablation in 2018. It didnt improve my AFIB and I felt very much like you describe afterwards. I felt like part of me had died. It has left me with sick sinus syndrome. Also, like you I am aware of the stress and trauma in my life that led me to AF although both my parents had it. My two sisters who have had less stressful lives are both older than me and perfectly well. I am in persistent AF now and was due to have a cardioversion last week but it didnt go ahead because pharmacy wouldnt let them give me the antiarrhythmic they wanted to change me to at the same time. It was peoples positive take on having ablations that made me go ahead but I wish I hadnt. It was good to hear you say a lot of the things I felt about it.
what about having an angiogram? Only I had mine 16 weeks ago and it left me feeling really unwell, i didn’t really know what was going on but when I saw the black wire on the screen wiggling about in my heart I felt I was going to die. The dr was a beginner and he kept going wrong and his teacher dr kept shouting at him to pull back several times. It was hell , plus I’ve still got pain up my arm from we’re they went in. I didn’t have AF when I had the procedure but went into AF a few days after, now after reading your post I can understand why. I in London uk and under the nhs by the way
A) you are an ultra sensitive person in touch with your body
And B)
you have learned a painful lesson to never let anyone touch your body with any kind of invasive procedure unless:
It is absolutely life and death necessary.
YOU request that it be done by someone who is highly experienced and has done 100's if not 1000's of them!
One thing I have learned is that:
I AM THE BOSS OF MY BODY.
I decide what happens how it happens and when it happens and BY WHOM.
I AM THE AUTHORITY ON ME.
if anything is suggested to be done I take a deep dive and research the subject from soup to nuts . they worked on me for over a year to get this done and when I relented it was reluctantly I talk myself into it that was the worst mistake of my life (one of them).
Because have a background of severe early childhood abuse & trauma , despite decades of psychotherapy and every kind of self-help and spiritual work you can possibly imagine, I've always had confidence issues and if I get scared I lose my superpowers (which are formidable!!)
and that's what happened to me in the situation I was vulnerable and I didn't have anyone to advise me or come with me or make the decision with me period I've made some bad decisions out of my trauma wound decisions that were good for me and this is the worst one I've ever made period
Because I believe there is nothing God could heal I believe I am still in the healing process and I believe that for restoration of my superpowers of my heart is still possible and I wish that for you and everyone reading this !!
I know there are a lot of nice people on here and maybe my peace that I wrote is too radical for you period please forgive me if I upset you in anyway period
It is not my intention to throw anybody off the course of their chosen plans regarding their health and their heart
But it is my intention to talk about what happened to me as a way of reaching out to receive support for my own situation, and also as a warning for anyone considering an Ablation. it is an invasive procedure and not to be taken lightly no matter how casually they toss around the word ablation in your Cardiology office. and so I would implore you to leave no stone unturned before making this decision. empower yourself with knowledge about your own body and your own heart and avail yourself of every possible alternative path of healing for your a fib: Get to the ROOT CAUSE . this is something your cardiologist will NEVER do. So it's up to YOU.
remember, "" Things don't come out of the blue; they come out of the oblivious."
Most people are not in touch with their bodies. Our society has programmed us otherwise but some of us who are healers (and I happen to be one as a massage therapist for many years) I am very in tune with my body (when I'm not checked out in a. trauma trigger). don't just do with the doctor says period to charge of your own health. Educate yourself. Get the holistic care that you need including applied KCRG muscle testing and other forms of holistic healing such as acupuncture Chinese medicine and other intuitive modalities and play detective. there is a relationship of things one to another period
For instance, did you know that if your kidneys are chronically dehydrated they cannot nourish the heart and the heart can get into a state of too much heat and too much fire in the heart can cause palpitations?
if your heart is in a state of atrial fibrillation there is a reason period your job is to find out what that is. because the doctors won't .
✨remember… They "treat" they don't cure .
I am in charge of my own healing!!
If my experience shared has helped people here then I am so glad I shared my story .
it's good to be connected with you all out there and thank you so much for your responses.
Wonderful discussions on a subject I’ve not seen addressed anywhere else.
Over two years ago I too had an ablation for Afib (and also Atrial flutter). I was diagnosed just as “The Pandemic” was taking hold here in New York, and all “elective” procedures (like catheter ablation) were put on hold…..
I had seen vascular dementia erase the personality and memory from my grandmother. The link between AF and possible dementia made me jump at the chance of having an ablation once the hospitals again began doing such procedures. There was real fear that the hospitals could just as quickly stop doing these non-essential procedures at any time. In retrospect, perhaps I was too hasty.
While I no longer have AF, I also no longer recognize my own heart—it now seems like some interloper, with unfamiliar pulses and quivers, despite the generally “normal” ECGs. (I have had the random bout with tachycardia, abnormal T-wave, etc. but nothing concretely abnormal lately.) Just a feeling that there is a stranger’s heart beating where mine used to be!
Interesting to think about the energy field emanating from the heart, and how destroying certain cells in the heart might change that. Rather unsettling!
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