I've just been watching a video of Sanjay Gupta on Vagas connections between heart and stomach
I was surprised when he said that PPis depleted magnesium but that it couldn't be replaced by a supplement and you should stay off them a few days to allow the magnesium to do its good work.
Is this common knowledge to those on this site because I take magnesium because I'm on PPi s seems I'm wasting my time
I woudn't take PPIs if you paid me I'm afraid for longer than a couple of weeks.There was a post last week on what they do and why they are a bad idea as they tend to self perpetuate the very problem they seek to control.
I agree totally with Bob and would never take them for more than a few weeks. Did you read EngMacs post a few days ago?
No I didn't but I will now Sorry for getting you and Jean the wrong way round
Your worrying me now Bob as I've been taking them for years .I do tend to take them every couple of days but when trying to stop them altogether symptoms are so bad I start taking them again. I'm seeing my GP tomorrow and will raise this with her
You have to get off them slowly to mitigate rebound reflux. If you’re on two doses of 40mg morning and evening (80mg total) get GP to prescribe 20mg and take it morning night (40mg total) for two weeks then start taking same 40mg every 2nd day for two weeks then drop to 20mg daily dose every 2nd day for 2 weeks, then every 3 days for two weeks, every 4 days for one week, fifth day one week, 6th day until stop when reach 7th day weekly. Change diet while doing this to no fatty/greasy foods.
Thanks I am only taking 20mg at night so should not find it hard to reduce but I've tried missing days and back it comesI've had this hiatus hernia for 20 years long before I got A/Fib seems there is no other treatment in New Zealand
Well you could also try 20mg PPI first night/ H2 blocker next/etc (see graph), used for long-term users. I helped my brother get off it after 30 years by following the graph. When you get to final week of H2 daily you in fact don’t have to just stop. Instead take the H2 every 2nd day for one week or two, then every 3rd day and so on until you come to one every 7 days and try to stop. Take teaspoon of bicarbonate in 300ml water on a flare after that. Mylanta liquid or chews ok too. My brother has large hiatus hernia and he has to eat 6x small meals instead of 3 larger ones. He can’t always be good being a bloke on his own but it’s helpful.
Thanks all very helpful I will give it a try .
It was known to me. PPI’s block the absorption of oral mag and magnesium in foods which was the main a reason I refused to take PPI’s. I think it’s mentioned on the forum reasonably frequently. There are also potential problems of rebound for many when you come off them so don’t just stop taking them. Get advice from your GP and reduce very, very slowly over time.
You can absorb magnesium through the skin however so switch to taking baths or use a Magnesium Oil spray. I frequently have muscle cramps, especially at night which is a sign your muscles are depleted of Magnesium and it’s the quickest and most effective way of replacing Magnesium I’ve found and the most effective remedy for foot and leg cramping at night.
I think someone should write a book entitled - What Doctor’s don’t tell you about this medication………..
I second that book CD!
Your right Jean someone should I really was never told this by either GP or Cardiologist. I knew PPi's depleted Magnesium but thought the supplement protected me.
Luckily I do take baths with Epsom Salts several times a week half a bag each bath so hopefully that has helped me though more luck than judgement.
PPIs also prevent vitamin b12 absorbtion, by the stomache, which is where the majority of that vit is normally absorbed .
If I was you I would start by checking your Magnesium level with a simple blood test. Don't bother with the GP surgery test as that shows almost always OK. You need the 'Red Cell' one carried out by an independent lab such as BioLabs London. If memory serves thats £40 plus with our surgery £25 for the blood take and then I post it off. You can get kits with a finger prick instead which saves the £25 if you can get the blood out, I always struggle with my fingers/circulation. My Naturopath says the Mg level should be in the top quartile as well as your CoQ10 level (they work together) but I haven't had much success with the former; I don't take PPIs but I do eat a lot of dairy which I understand also blocks Mg.
I feel that on this video he is a bit alarmist since, so far as I can discover, PPIs don't "deplete magnesium" in the vast majority of people who take them. I've discussed this at length with my GP because of the fears this and other reports raised in me and also on a recent visit to a GI professor, both of whom told me not to worry and to continue with the lansoprazole.
It's no good people saying not to take PPIs in my view - and in those two doctors views, as well. Properly prescribed, the drugs are uniquely able to prevent acid erosion of the lower oesophagus and reduce the long-term effects of this painful condition. Acid-related oesophageal diseases are far less common since PPI drugs gained popularity. That they were only approved only for short term use originally is true, but that claim is an anachronism that makes it irrelevant today.
It is the case that if you are unfortunate and have hypomagnesemia because of PPI usage, then it is difficult to replace the lost magnesium except by intravenous infusion, which, I read, works well.
If only there were a better way to treat acid reflux, but it seems there isn't. The main thing is to keep the weight down and to eat smaller meals, but where acid erosion remains a risk, PPI drugs offer an answer until something better comes along that will prevent the actual cause, the weakness in the sphincter atop the stomach.
Steve
Thanks Steve that's made me feel a whole lot better ppi's have made life bearable hiatus hernia is such a painful condition and I know I need the magnesium for A/F so it was very worrying when the video said ppi's take it away. I'm grateful for your reassurance thank you
Janet
I think the internet is often a source of misinformation and worry. I have a “small” hiatus hernia and lots of reflux but lansoprazole has stopped all acid. I still have enough other symptoms such as pressure and upper abdominal discomfort which might or might not be from the HH, but, at least acid isn’t the cause.
Life with gastric problems isn’t fun, and when the heart plays up, too - whew! Of course, it could be worse! 😳🙄😉
Steve
Exactly but who do you trust I thought Sanjay Gupta was a reliable source but when I read his podcast I thought oh no now what can I do I can't spend my life crippled by my hiatus hernia and no surgery here in NZ to helpYou and others on here have helped so much thank you all
Well - lucky you living in New Zealand. It’s the one country I used to think I could emigrate to and be happy!
Sanjay Gupta is very good, I am sure. Overall, my experience of health problems is that the internet always gets them a bit wrong, somehow. Generally, searching leads to a worse conclusion than the reality turns out to be. Doctors are better than the internet! Mind you, this last eight months of having gastric symptoms have reduced my faith in them, it’s true.
On HH, the internet tells us that most people have no symptoms and that the cause of symptoms is not the hernia but acid reflux. So, you take lansoprazole and the acid goes away. Great. So what is causing all the other symptoms? Oh - the frustration and worry!
It’s been really nice chatting - the internet can be thanked did that much. 😊
Steve
What are ppi s?
Proton Pump Inhibitors to reduce stomach acid.
I know stuff like omeprazole can inhibit adsorption of certain vitamins so I expect magnesium is the same. But then they protect you from ulcers and things so.....
They’re drugs that stop stomach acid forming so help when the acid flows in the wrong direction up into the food pipe. There are several all ending in “-azole” such as esomeprazole and lansoprazole.
Thank you
I took a PPI for 5 years and finally weaned myself off of it. It was difficult, but so worth it!! I now treat reflux with a home made ginger tea. I slice a large "finger" of fresh ginger into thin slivers, put it in 3or 4 cups of water in a pot, boil it for about 15 minutes. I strain the liquid, add honey while the liquid is warm, and drink it either hot or cold. It has been a life saver for me. I keep a large container of it in the fridge at all times.
I so wish this had worked for me. I tried hard! It seems to me that when the sphincter atop the stomach is unable to do its job, then nothing can stop the back flow of stomach contents apart from surgery.
Steve
Is this going to work on a hiatus hernia? To me reflux is different
I have a sliding hiatal hernia and it still works for me. I don't drink it before bedtime, since this is just inviting trouble by lying down! There are so many benefits to ginger for overall body health and immune protection that, for me, it's worth it.
I take omeprazole I have done for a couple of years now. I take a probiotic daily and use ancient minerals magnesium lotion. If you use it this way rather than orally your body does absorb it. This is what I was told at my local health food shop. It seems to have worked for me so far.
Worth a try thank you
My wife and I both used to suffer from acid reflux and popped antacids like sweets, including lansoprazole in my case for GERD.
We started making our own Kefir from goats milk. We drink a glass each before our evening meal, I also have a glass in the morning.
Since doing this our digestive systems have become calm and regular as clockwork. Gone are the antacids and blundering around for the Rennies at 3am.....trying to go to sleep sitting up etc etc.
I don't really know why, but I understand probiotics are very effective at reseeding your gut with friendly bacteria, but it certainly worked for us...we also make sauerkraut now, but Kefir is supposed to be like yoghurt on steroids!
Might be worth a try, it's dead easy to make and if you make your own it's more potent and costs peanuts compared to yoghurt. Just strain the fermented culture and put the kefir grains in fresh milk and 24 hrs later you have a new batch...simples! We've been doing it for years now still using the original grains we were given years ago, they grow very fast when they're happy.
Good luck
Thanks I will try that natural ways are worth a try
It's worth a go, you can normally find someone locally who's making Kefir who can give you some starter grains, it takes a bit of time to get it right and get the culture going, but well worth the effort.....a couple of websites which you may find useful:
culturedfoodlife.com/
happykombucha.co.uk/
Good luck
Thanks so much for this I will definitely try and let you know the outcome
Janet
I came off PPI's several months ago, after being 2x30mg Lansoprazole for approx 15yrs. I have a fixed hiatus hernia, and GERD. It wasn't until after I'd come off them that I read this on British National Formulary (BNF)
"Measurement of serum-magnesium concentrations should be considered before and during prolonged treatment with a proton pump inhibitor, especially when used with other drugs that cause hypomagnesaemia or with digoxin."
bnf.nice.org.uk/drug/lansop...
The serum test for Magnesium isn't known to be particularly useful......most of the magnesium in the body is in tissues/bones, but if you are taking PPI's then you should be tested. I think if the BNF suggest testing, there has to be valid reasoning behind it.
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