Constant lethargy, but tests are all ok... Advice please guys

[Dangerousdriver]

Hey all,

Heart wise, I'm doing pretty good recently (touch wood) with the heart, and even the ectopics have really eased off. I get the odd very brief SVT lasting 30 secs, then it reverts back to sinus. One thing I do find though is I suffer from absolute disabling lethargy most days, where I can get 8 plus hours and still struggle to get up or fall asleep in the day.

I have had blood tests which all come back normal, I have am at a complete loss with this now. I take 1 x 20mg Atorvstatin, (10 years) 2 x 1.25mg Bisoprolol (1.5 years), 1 x 20mg Rivaroxaban (1.5 years)

I tried taking Magnesium daily, but this did nothing for me, and in fact I think it increased my ectopics.

I know Bisoprolol can affect people, but I am told that at the dose I take it's almost homeopathic and unlikely to affect me. I am not aware that Rivaroxaban causes tiredness, but correct me if I am wrong on that?!

I saw an ENT Dr who advised me that she does not think I suffer from Sleep Apnoea, but I was advised to request a sleep study. It's the hardest thing to have no energy some days, especially when I work hard, and have a young family. It's started to have an effect on my mental health in a way as I am irritable because I feel I am limited to what I can do some days, which affects my kids. Work is not too bad as I am fortunate to be able to sleep if I need to at work, even in the day without anyone being aware.

Just wanted some advice and to see what others might be able to suggest.

Cheers

Leon

[Kaz747]

I would have the sleep study and see what happens. I didn’t think I had sleep apnea (I wasn’t tired in the day) but my sleep test proved otherwise. Most of my sleep was fine but when I went into REM sleep the problem occurred. Overall it was deemed on the borderline of mild-moderate and my sleep specialist said if I didn’t have AF I wouldn’t necessarily need treatment. There are two types of sleep apnea- obstructive and central. Central is when the brain fails to send the signals to breath. Just because the ENT doctor doesn’t see anything obvious is the structure of your throat doesn’t mean something isn’t happening whilst you’re sleeping. My doctor said there’s a misconception that it’s mainly obese people who suffer with sleep apnea as a lot of slim people and even kids have it. A friend’s 30 year old son was recently diagnosed and he is a fit gym junkie. Here’s an article on central sleep apnea:

verywellhealth.com/what-is-...

[Dangerousdriver in reply to Kaz747]

Hi Kaz, I have spoken to the GP and requested a sleep study, so she’s made me complete a questionnaire, then she will send off the referral. I have woken myself up gasping for air, which cannot be normal can it?!

[Kaz747 in reply to Dangerousdriver]

That sounds a lot like it could be sleep apnea. I didn’t have any of the usual symptoms. I wasn’t tired in the day. I didn’t get up at night. I felt I was sleeping well and my Fitbit would record 7 or 8 hours a night. As I said my issue was really only when in REM.

[Dangerousdriver in reply to Kaz747]

To be honest I’ve been tired for the last 10 odd years really! The only week I can remember feeling energised and not tired ironically was after my ablatIon. That week i felt amazing!

[CDreamer]

I had a very similar experience after my second ablation, my heart behaved but I started to feel worse and worse Chronic Fatigue meant I was sleeping 12-18 hours a day and still not feeling better. It wasn’t until symptoms of Myasthenia gravis appeared some weeks afterwards that I was diagnosed with that condition. The doctors told me that CFS was not a symptom of Mg - but surveys show that about 30% of people who have any autoimmune disease also suffer CFS.

One thing I found out really early was that I cannot take any heart meds - especially Beta-Blockers - in fact I now have a RED ALERT on my file so no-one even questions me that I should take them so I would hot tail it back to the Doctor and insist you first try stopping them as that in itself helped me enormously. Even homeopathic amounts can be incredibly powerful - that’s how homeopathy works!

There are many conditions which have Chronic Fatigue as a symptom so it may have nothing to do with adequate sleep although it’s a good idea to have a sleep test.

Chronic Fatigues is a symptom of a condition and a condition in itself but without other definitive symptoms or positive tests results diagnosing these conditions can be really difficult.

CFS can start for no reason or after a virus, drug therapies or surgical interventions but the root cause has been hypothesised to be a Mitrochondrial deficiency which can sometimes be helped with dietary changes and supplements. This theory is now becoming more accepted and understood and I found that reading Dr Sarah Myhill’s book - ‘It’s Mitrochondria not Hypochondria’ really helpful. May I suggest you look at her web-site and see if anything resonates with you. The regime she advocates is a tough one to adjust to but it does really help.

drmyhill.co.uk/

Other suggestion - Dr Chattergee’s Four Pillars of Health - really easy reading and complete common sense approach - there is a chapter on Chronic Fatigue and his Pod Casts are free to download.

Everyone responds very differently and because CFS is so individual to each person, finding the right remedy and treatment for you is very, very difficult.

Lifestyle Medicine can help get to the root cause as the questions and tests which are done are very different to those for general medicine but unfortunately it’s not available on the NHS yet as appointments are long and investigations take time so it is expensive.

It is sometimes very hard to find a sympathetic or trained or a GP aware and willing to support you but I am very lucky to have found an excellent support system and have very gradually improved but I still need to be careful, especially if I have an infection of any sort and it always takes much longer to recover from anything and everything.

If anything here resonates with you please feel free to PM me.

Very best wishes - CD.

[irene75359 in reply to CDreamer]

CDreamer every time you post your helpful and detailed replies I make a note - thank you.

[CDreamer in reply to irene75359]

Thank you for your lovely comment! Just trying to pass on my experience. I’ve been coping with AF for over 12 years now and autoimmune conditions for 45 years so I picked up quite a lot of info over the years. What I have learned is that there is no one answer for all and that there are benefits and pitfalls in all types of treatments.

[JaneFinn in reply to irene75359]

So do I! I second that thanks, CDreamer. Xx

[Dangerousdriver in reply to CDreamer]

Thank you Dreamer, that is some great advice there. I shall have a look at that.

[djmnet]

I'd say it's the beta blocker bisoprolol. I'm going through the exact thing myself and am about to give up on my very low dose of metoprolol. In addition to being without energy since I've been on it, I've gained weight with no change in my healthy diet.

[Dangerousdriver in reply to djmnet]

Yep I’ve definitely put on a bit of weight too, so will be doin some more research into beta blockers.

[sandoval22]

I know the NHS full blood count doesn't include Ferritin (iron count) unless you specifically ask for it to be included. Mine was low so now I take iron tablets. Just an idea.

[Auriculaire]

If as cdreamer sug gests chronic fatigue is a mitochondrial disorder then my money would be on the statin. Statins block the production of Co Enzyme Q 10 which is essential for the production of energy in every cell of our body and is particularly important for heart health . There is recent Japanese research that suggests that statins actually provoke congestive heart failure. Some people are very sensitive to Bisoprolol and 1.25mg is not a homeopathic dose. I could not tolerate more than half of that . On 2.5mg I felt like a zombie. I now take 1.25 mg of Nebivolol which I find much better. If you are taking the statin for primary prevention because of a knee jerk reaction by your doctor ( ie cholesterol over a given figure) and not because you have actually had a heart attack I would be asking myself whether it was really necessary. Statins are dished out like smarties and most people taking them do not need them. They are a scam , a goldmine for Pharma .

[sleeksheep in reply to Auriculaire]

I suffered from lethargy for many years and had been on Atorvastatin ( 5mg for 14 years ) .It only appeared when I started on Sotalol and then with Diltiazem .

I quit taking statins and began taking CoQ10 with L-Carnitine and have been back to my usual non lethargic state for two years now.

So I think its a bit more complicated on which prescription is the culprit , my theory is that the calcium channel blocker makes the statin more "aggressive" as a lot of side effects caused by statins never appeared till I was in AFIB and on medication.

I found since stopping Atorvastatin ( I take no statin at all ) I get no leg pains , my eye sight has improved and my metabolism worked as it should.

As a side note my cholesterol has dropped to 5.2 since stopping statins and my blood glucose is the lowest for 8 years.

I would suggest you look at magnesium again as it is one of the pillars of AFIB supplementation with CoQ10 and L-Carnitine.

AOR has this review of the different types thats very instructive.

aor.ca/forms-of-magnesium/

[Hidden]

1.25 mg of bisoprolol taken daily by me was stopped after 3 days as it brought my heart rate down dangerously low- it is rubbish to say it's effects are minimal! And many homoeopathic remedies are very effective! We are all different- today I met a doctor who had stopped working as he was unable to continue because of the exhausting effects of bisoprolol and flecainide-