Bad ectopics just before going asleep?

[DaveT81]

Hi guys, anybody have a terrible ectopics when they lie down, just before going asleep?

It's never been a massive problem for me in the past but it's becoming increasingly worse in the past 6 months.

Had catheter ablation in 2017 and since then I've seen a huge increase in ectopics that I didn't have before. I'm almost regretting it.

I'm aware of the vagal link, and I almost certainly do suffer vagal ectopics. I will sometimes get them when standing, if I quickly change position or have my neck at a strange angle.

Also, I have IBS, so that appears to affect it sometimes. There's also the stomach, vagal nerve and heart link too.

But I rarely, if ever, eat after 6:30 and I also sleep propped up. I can be lying on my back, reading for an hour, then as soon as I turn the light off and got to sleep they start up.

Oh and they tend to be much worse when lying on either side. I feel them much more when on my left side. They were particularly worrying me last night and I got a little panicked at one point.

[Padayn01]

Hi DaveT81, im in the same boat as you, but i only had my ablation 13 weeks ago and do get nasty skipped beats, tend to happen when i'm sitting at an angel on my chair or lying down, have you tried taking a magnesium supplement or doing some slow breathing exercises?

[DaveT81 in reply to Padayn01]

I have tried magnesium, I'm taking it right now and have been for a couple of years. I've been taking taurine and arginine too.

I've tried breathing exercises but I can never seem to get that to work!

[Padayn01 in reply to DaveT81]

Does it not help even a little bit? How many ectopics would you say your getting a day?

[DaveT81 in reply to Padayn01]

To be honest, I started taking the supplements after my first two afib episodes, so was already taking before my ablation. At this point I'm not even sure if they work for that reason.

I've stopped taking as much recently to see whether the ectopics increase or lessen.

Re the breathing exercises, I actually have an undiagnosed breathing problem at the moment too so that's why it's quite hard for me.

I'm 38 for gods sake!

[Padayn01 in reply to DaveT81]

What about things like reflexology? I had a session and it helped me short term only

[DaveT81 in reply to Padayn01]

I tried raiki, reflexology and also hypnotism for a variety of health issues and, like you, got a bit of mild relief for a while.

It's so irritating, as I know that it's making me anxious, and in doing so, it's making these symptoms much worse. But it's hard not to become anxious when you're standing at a bus stop (as I was a couple of hours ago) and your heart just suddenly starts racing for no apparent reason!

[Padayn01 in reply to DaveT81]

Your in the exact field as me, in the house I can deal with it but as soon as I step out of my comfort zone you can feel the anxiety increase and when that sets off the skipped beats start just horrible and I can’t control the feeling of anxiety

[Susangibbons]

How do you identify an ectopic?

How does it feel?

[DaveT81 in reply to Susangibbons]

Since my ablation in 2017, I've been able to identify ectopics by how it feels in my chest. It used to be a strange sensation that I couldn't put my finger on but I know when one has occurred very easily (sadly) these days.

It's a beat, then another quick beat, a long pause (that appears to be getting much longer for me) and then a hard, aggressive beat after the pause. To visualise, it feels like this: 'bumpbump.................................BUMP'.

I'd become used to the occasional ectopic but with all of my other health issues, it's really starting to get on top of me now and it's combining with insomnia (and potential sleep apnoea) to stop me sleeping more than 4-5 hrs a night usually.

I also have a recent chronic fatigue diagnosis to contend with too, so I really need at least 8 hours a night unbroken sleep. Which I rarely get any more.

[HowMyHeartSings]

I have the same situation. I’ve not yet had an ablation but since my first tachycardia episode a few months back I’ve been having the experience you describe at night lying down about twice a week. I’m curious if it is caused by the vagal nerve can an ablation actually address it address it? I’m not sure exactly what ectopics are?

[DaveT81 in reply to HowMyHeartSings]

Yes, I'd say that many of us suffer with the vagal nerve association unfortunately, but I only found that out after my ablation.

Ectopics are basically just something that feels like either a skipped or extra beat. As I said to another reply further up it feels like 'bumpbump..........................BUMP'. Two quick beats, and then a long pause, before your heart beats again. So it almost feels like your heart has paused. But in fact, it's just that your heart has beaten twice, very quickly so the pause is 'normal' but is much longer so feels really off.

[Goldfish7]

I'm the same. After 2nd (successful ablation) ablation I've had a lot of runs of ectopics that I didn't have before. I also get ventricular tachycardia often and am now suffering worse breathlessness, chest/jaw pain and dizziness/faintness on walking - so fairly cheesed off. I do find that I get more and longer runs of ectopics PVC,s when lying down getting ready for sleep and on waking up. I think they are worsened by getting physically tired during the day which doesn't take much these days! I similarly have an iffy stomach so try not to eat late. I can never sleep on my back so am always lying on my side, but try to do it with my chest 'open' as much as I can. Magnesium maleate and taurate appears to have quietened them down a bit but the ectopics/PVC's and tachycardia are still waking me up far too often.

Wish I had found a magic trick to calm it all but so far find the best strategy is to not get too stressed (where possible), or too physically tired and to take magnesium supplements. Best of luck controlling yours.

[HowMyHeartSings in reply to Goldfish7]

Are these ectopics part of the healing process? Or are they present a while after your 2nd ablation?

[Goldfish7 in reply to HowMyHeartSings]

I'm just over a year since my ablation and they are lessening to some degree, mainly slightly shorter runs and leaning more to bursts of tachycardia rather than ectopics. I do try to limit stress and physical tiredness which seems to help. So I'm guessing it is part of a very long healing process (hope so I really want them to go).

[HowMyHeartSings]

Do you regret the ablation or would you still have opted for it? I very much hope things improve for you, insomnia is so debilitating.

[DaveT81 in reply to HowMyHeartSings]

To be honest, a large part of me regrets the ablation now.

Once I had cut out caffeine and artificial sweeteners (and didn't have lots of sugar), along with cutting back on my alcohol intake, I rarely - if ever - got any ectopic beats at all.

Since the ablation, they're almost every day and highly intrusive. It's only increased over time too. It could be that my other health problems have irritated my heart issues but either way, I can't imagine it'd be this bad if I'd not had an ablation.

It's like I've replaced the prospect of one awful thing occurring, with the reality of another, less awful thing, happening on a more regular basis.

[HowMyHeartSings in reply to DaveT81]

I’m so sorry to hear that. I wish you well & that things settle for you with time.

[Susangibbons]

Thank you , I understand now and have occasional biggish ectopics, its a weird feeling but gone quickly.

I have permanent AF which is controlled by digoxin very well thank goodness.

My consultant advised that an ablation wasn’t an option for me, unsure why but I do have dilated cardiomyopathy (again controlled with bisopolol & perindiprol) so was very pleased the digoxin was successful as I was heading for a pacemaker as my heart was dropping so low at night.

I sleep well for 4-5 hours then wake and doze till I get up and then get tired during the day and have a snooze , its a cycle I havent been able to break.

I dont seem to be able to work out triggers as my symptoms are not awful but do feel that reducing stress helps and I deep breathe before nodding off.

I have recently been having reflexology once a week and this has helped tremendously with my circulation and my ankles are not swollen now, I am off to London for a long day and that will be a test for my ankle swelling. I also put my feet up whenever I can.

Oh and caffeine doesnt help me, I can have 2 coffees a day , any more and I get twitchy and tight chested.

Its very useful to me to share these symptoms that many people have.

[DaveT81 in reply to Susangibbons]

Yeah, I get what you mean.

My triggers used to be pretty noticeable, these days though, it seems that literally everything is a trigger!

[Shcldavies]

I don't know how many things cause ectopics but electrolyte imbalance is certainly one. If your on any medication for reducing acid in your stomach (PPIs for example) then many magnesium supplements won't get absorbed and are therefore effectively useless. This is also the case with too much alcoholic drinks and caffeine. Similarly if you don't have the right quantities of potassium or iron, the magnesium that does get absorbed may not be able to do its thing in keeping the right electrolyte balance. The other complication is that these electrolytes have to be within the cells of your heart, blood count is not always an indicator in many circumstance.

No real answer on how to fix it but drinking more water (especially first thing in the morning) and eating more bananas and avocado, combined with reducing or eliminating caffeine, alcoholic drinks and sugar certainly helped me.

Some say that most people have ectopics but don't feel them and I believe this to be true, like you I get them at times of rest or at particular body positions, I feel them more after a beer and less after eating an avocado.

Its just a feeling I have but when my body is in balance I do not feel them, when its not I feel them more. Keeping in balance has just been a trial and error ride thats ongoing.

[DaveT81 in reply to Shcldavies]

Strangely enough, I take Omeprazole 20mg in the mornings. Would you say that taking the magnesium before taking the PPI would be better, or would it not matter at all?

I'm keen to get to the bottom of these problems, because I ended up in A+E yesterday afternoon due to a host of weird symptoms. Was sent home eventually after bloods tests, ECG and chest x-ray. Still feel rough today and no idea what has happened.

Either way, my heart is either the cause or is being affected by whatever it is that's going on so I'm keen to at least help my heart, if nothing else.

I haven't touched caffeine since the HR problems begin in 2016, don't drink alcohol much and haven't had any in over 2 months and I don't smoke.

I will start to try bananas again and give avocados a try. I feel like I've been going through trial and error for almost 3 years and can never find a real balance.

[Shcldavies]

Yes take the magnesium at least an hour before the Omeprazole, the Doc reduced my Omeprazole from 20mg to 10mg, it still worked well and I have been weaning myself off it since. I seem to be steady at 1 every 2 days now. Right now the Omeprizole is preventing the magnesium you take working.

I cannot say why this works and there is no apparent reason but drink a glass of water very first thing in the morning and try to leave at least 12 (preferably 14) hours between your last meal in the evening and first meal the next day.

There is no miracle cure, some things do work but they may take some time. Whatever causes you heart to behave as it does took some time to develop and likely take some time to get better. I would say its the electrolytes effecting your heart or nervous system and getting these right will be difficult, but well worth a try.