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Doctors

Good morning all

Well looks like I am on my way to recieving a a disipilinary at work Last two weeks I have struggled daily with muscular pains in both arms and legs since being on Vit D tablets I have continued to go in work and cover my shifts Today after having a bad night Not being able to turn or relax due to aching limbs I have phoned in sick.

Going to get a appointment with my surgery Advise please could it possibly be my Bisoprolol that is causing the pain also I have been on it since Last year

How long if it's the Vit D has any one else suffered like this.

My head is telling me perhaps it's time to end my job but it will be a struggle financially My health needs to come first I guess though

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I don't envy your position and I'm fairly sure in the next 6-8 months I'll be in it also. Trying to decide if I should move on before I am pushed or fighting for my job. Either choice is bound to be "messy" for me or for them or for both.

Are you sure a discilplinary is around the corner? Have you been on lower stage monitoring/warning? Depending what stage your at depends on what action they can take, certainly in the health service.

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Had meeting few weeks ago with manager Said my sickness was not acceptable and if I had time off in next six months it would go to disipilinary and see if I'm suitable for my job now

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Get union involvement. They have to be careful and you have to stick up for yourself.

They need to refer you to occupational health for assesment not make the descision based soley on a sickness record. They need to prove that your level of attendence will not get better.

Our place calls it "sickness monitoring" or "sickness absence" meetings rather than disciplinary.

Try and check local policy. It's rare they can escalate from one warning to dismissal (though they may try) and they also have to be careful as if all your sickness episodes are related/can be attributed to an underlying medical condition it could be classed as discrimination under the equality act and/or disabilities act and you could take them to tribunal.

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We don't have occupational health in company I don't think

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Not my union - but worth a read:

unison.org.uk/get-help/know...

Are you in a union?

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What area do you work in? It’s disgraceful that people who are unwell are subjected to this sort of thing.

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I work with dementia In a residential home

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You could contact the citizens advice bureau to see if they can suggest an organisation that provides information on exactly what your rights are in this sort of situation. I certainly would be wary of accepting at face value what the employer says.

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I will ring Acas. They are very good and will act on your behalf if necessary

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In the first instance I apologise for not having read all the posts and feel obliged to advise you accordingly to alleviate your fears. There are clear statutes regarding disciplinaries and to date it does not look good for your company - unless they can prove other issues before you went sick and there are no statutes governing how much sickness you are entitled to before a disciplinary is introduced. The maximum they can legally do is to ASK that you attend an independent medical. I have been where you are and the very first thing you MUST do is to get a diary and record EVERYTHING and keep all copies of emails and anything you feel should be recorded. NEVER feel threatened and NEVER argue but state clearly and calmly that you will be complying with your doctors advice in spite of any threats from the company and will refer to those threats if any disciplinary is instigated. You must fight threats with a position of MEDICAL NEEDS and stress that their threats is further damaging your recovery.

Please continue to contact me if you feel I could be of further assistance to you

Now for the Bisoprolol. There is clear medical knowledge that the drug can cause severe pains in limbs and muscle mass. My ache was in my hip joint and the large buttock muscle. The pain stopped me going to the gymnasium and having to do other exercise at home omitting the legs from serious exercise. I was on this drug before I sent into hospital and after the CABG I was put on double that dose. After going to the docs and after seeing my blood test results, it was agreed that the dose was lowered to the pre op level - result much pain removed - not all but it is liveable.

Keep your spirits up you are not alone - never let the bas****s grind you down, especially when you have nothing to fear.

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Thank you I have had a back to work today with a senior which is the norm Apparently I have a meeting tomorrow at 2pm with the home manager

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That’s awful.... how would you manage? I’m about to take time off work after an operation this Sunday.... I worry about my job too as I’ve already had a bit of AF time off work since last year.

Oh to be rich....

Or healthy..... or both 😊

I hope your employer doesn’t go down that disciplinary route 🤞

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They probably will They really ain't bothered Numbers are all they are bothered in Doesn't matter what you done in the past I got the home their end of life certificate which they show in the reception

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Hiya vonnie I feel for you !! I get aches too and it gets you down I have dropped my job from 30 hours down to 20 a week ! What with the tiredness and short of breath I was struggling to do the 30. Take care Eileen

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Thanks Eileen I have constant aches Cannot even go upstairs one foot at a time Have to hold tops of my legs when standing up and cannot even roll over in bed Cannot drop my hours any more as I do 22 hours a week

I was fine till these vitaminD tabs

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Just a reminder about Polymyalgia Rheumatica which I mentioned to you before. It’s not uncommon and responds very well to steroid treatment. Might be worth asking your GP about this.

arthritis.org/about-arthrit...

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I will mention it when I go Thank you

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I would ask for a change from Bisoprolol to Nebivolol a much more friendly drug perhaps you could stop or change your Vitamin D tablets too.

D

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Hi Vonnie :-) I understand it can take months for the Vitamin D supplement to take effect.

Being vitamin D deficient I have some days when movement is easier than others. I have been taking a 'loaded' Vit D supplement for over 3 weeks, some days I think things are improving other days I think not.

Also it seems I have a limited amount of energy each day and once I have used it for the day I am exhausted until I have rested.

Please go back to your GP and ask her to clarify your problem for your employer. I think it is very unfair that your health is not being taken into account by your employer.

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Thanks Doodle I have appointment Friday with doctor I will have to go back work tomorrow and Wednesday Both are 12 hour shifts the I'm off so will see what my doctor suggests I'm in trouble anyway for taking today off I have till August before I should take any sick leave

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Vonnie although I am older than you, most of the time I am pretty fit (except when in P-AF) but there is no way I could work with this deficiency, even getting up the stairs and out of a chair takes a lot of effort.

Also I am not sleeping well because I ache and can't turn over in bed without making an effort to do so.

My doctor says my vitamin D levels are so low it may take up to 6 months to get back to normal.

'Hugs' I am so sad for you and that people don't understand how limiting this deficiency can be.

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That's exactly how I am Doodle I seem better once I'm in work and keep my limbs moving Soon as I stop my arms and legs are awful It's very hard to turn over like you said when in bed and going upstairs one foot at a time is near impossible It must be awful for you I know I have cried so much lately out of sheer frustration

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Are you taking the vit d with fat in your meal and also the magnesium. Vit d and magnesium work together. If the vit d is not in oil based capsules you need some fat in the meal you take them with.

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It beggars belief that you "Can't be sick until August" as people are humans and get ill. I'd have wanted it in writing that if you have D&V or norovirus or flu or you break a limb that you are still expected to come into work!

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We was actually on lock down as it was going through the unit

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It could be the VitD, some people are intolerant to it and if makes them feel dreadful, me included ! You also need to get your calcium level checked just in case it's high and the VitD is pushing it up further.

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Thanks will mention that on Friday to my doctor

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Yvonne, see hse.gov.uk/sicknessabsence/... especially the two links in the section "Employment Legislation"

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Thank you

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Are you taking statins? A VERY common cause of muscle and joint aches and pains tho many doctors blow this off. Google some research. There is a lot of info out there about this statin-related side effect. Statins-esp here in the US) are one of the great money-making drugs prescribed. Keep this thought in mind when doctors don't help you make a fair, informed decision about taking them for yourself.

Re Vit D.

I had severe generalized pain as you describe for years. When it was discovered my Vit D was very low last year I was started on 50,000 IU weekly also a small daily dose of D3 (2000 IU). I am still on the high weekly dose as I have absorption problems and my D level tends to drift down if I don't stay on top of it. It may take several months for relief although my pain-originally diagnosed as fibromyalgia- was completely gone in i month. (After 4weekly high prescription doses.)

I would investigate this deeper-is your dose high enough?- before looking at fancier diagnoses that require steroids and more Big Pharma drugs..

When you research this forum you will see many stories about patients diagnosed with different myalgias and prescribed some strong meds when after a thorough and competent thyroid evaluation their symptoms turned out to be caused by hypothyroidism and low vitamin levels.

It is often easier for doctors to send you to another specialist citing another cause than low vitamins or undertreated thyroid. Many stories abound here about similar experiences.

Demand effective treatment (hard to find at times, I know) but don't be dismissed and sent to another specialist because it's easier for the doctor.

Good luck finding effective thyroid care. It's difficult but worth it. Most of us have had to make this journey as many doctors don't know about or care about effective thyroid care. And our government guidelines don't help. There are ways to get the proper meds you need. Search and read on. Most of us have discovered we have to find info for ourselves and take responsibility for finding effective care.

It shouldn't be like this but it is.

Take care. irina

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Irena, do you think that the common blood test for thyroid problems isn't enough and an extensive, fuller test is necessary? I've been tested several times and results are negative, although I present with most of the symptoms. Also, my mother has an under-active thyroid.

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Definitely. Almost two decades after research showing that the upper level for TSH is too high resulting in lots of people who might benefit from treatment being denied it, labs have barely changed the normal values.

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Hi Gwernsey.

I am not up on all the current info regarding necessary tests, etc to correctly diagnose and treat hypothyroidism. It is not an area of expertise for me.

But seasidesusie, greygoose, and Slowdragon are. I would research their posts as they frequently and patiently list all you need to know to begin to find competent care for yourself. They will list needed tests, incl vitamin levels plus other important facts you need to know and why they are important.

The difficult part will be finding doctors who will include all needed tests to get a clear thyroid picture. There is also someone you can ask about who, I understand, keeps a list of sympathetic doctors in the UK. I believe her name is Louise Roberts. Ask for her website.

Also on the subject of self-medication-which many do successfully after being turned down for good care by doctors- is available thru PM. Ask about this also.

Please search for them. There are other equally knowledgeable people but these three come to mind as I write. If you have a hard time locating one of their posts, try sending a PM asking for their help.

I still remind myself through their posts what I need to remember before my Endo visits.

Hope this helps. Take care. irina

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Thank you so much.

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🐱

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I'm not in statins.One tablet I don't need at present

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Have you at any time in the last year taken a fluoroquinolone antibiotic?

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Could you not see an employment solicitor. Some will give the first hour free.

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Will see what happens when I go in work today

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Acas will help you , because it’s a health issue they could be on a sticky wicket as it’s something you can’t help contact them ..

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Will do I'm at my doctor's on Friday but at 62 I'm beginning to think should I just pack it in I love my job it is very demanding though

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Hi Vonnieruth

It could be your Bisoprolol,I get shoulder pains and an aching in my chest when I need to take it.

Try speaking to your doctor about getting a prescription for 2mg Diazepam for the muscle pains.

Theres lots more muscle relaxants but Diazepam has always been the top choice when it comes to muscular pain.

Be aware they're very addictive but 2mg 2-3 times a day shouldn't hurt you.

Hope this helps.

Matt

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I sympathise with you and know exactly how you feel. I suffer with AF and take Bisoprolol10mg along with BP meds. I was prescribed Acrete for Vit D deficiency but cannot tolerate. The aches in my arms and legs were terrible. I didn't want to get up in the mornings. Even found it painful turning over in bed.

I was 62 when I had to give up work. Like you, found it hard to climb the stairs after the slightest exhersion. It became so bad last year, my husband and I sold our house and moved away to buy a bungalow.

I no longer take Acrete but am still taking Bisoprolol but cut it in half and now take twice a day.

I don't get out much as I find it hard to walk, I admire you for trying to hold your job down.

Employers have no idea of the pain we go through. Shame the Government changed the retirement age for women, but then that is another story.

Please try to stay positive.

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Makes me cross that people like us are left to struggle without proper medical support and end up having to stop work and face the financial consequences.

My company mentioned taking me down the disciplinary route and i got indignant about it. I told my boss how difficult things were and much of a physical struggle it was. That i thought the disciplinary route should be for the real shirkers ie those who regularly don't turn up on a Monday morning or a Friday after a night out the evening before. That using it for people with genuine difficulties was tantamount to bullying. That was the magic word and i was directed to Occupational Health. We arranged for me to condense my hours so i had every other Friday off. That helped me for a couple of years. I have a number of different ailments so I'm now going down the ill health early retirement route. Don't know if it will be successful but i am only 3 years off retirement so i coukd just go early.

Go and see your doctor and explain your company is threatening you with this. It might make him/her make more effort with your treatment. Go and ask Citizens Advice if they can advise. Are you a member of a union? If so ask them for help and ask them to sit in on any meetings at work.

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Totally agree. My work related woes are well documented on here and run along similar lines to what you have been through.

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I was diagnosed with PAF in 2007 I went from having an exemplary sickness record to needing to take sick leave when I was very unwell and when I was in hospital. I was eventually dismissed and lost my internal appeal (I was a registered nurse working for the NHS) I opted to take my employer to a tribunal supported by an excellent barrister paid for by UNISON. We were able to demonstrate that all my sickness related to PAF and that the health board were therefore in flagrant breach of the Disability Discrimination Act. The Health Board settled pre tribunal and I received very substantial compensation.

Don't let your employer intimidate or bully you!

I wish you all the very best and hope your health improves

Kindest regards

David

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While you are in citizens advice enquire about what benefits you may be eligible for just in case your employers your employers do pull the plug. My understanding is that they have to give you 2 written warnings, which you can challenge, before they move to a formal dismissal.

Please consider joining a union so that they can accompany you If they have given you notice of a formal interview, before you are called in for a formal interview. Your employers may say they don't recognise unions but I believe you are entitled to take an advisor, or a solicitor, in with you, perhaps others could advise on this.

With regard to vitamin D almost everyone in the Northern hemisphere is deficient in winter. It is the spring solstice at the end of this month, the sun is coming back and you should start to pick up vitamin D naturally

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Hi Vonnieruth

I am a director of an engineering company and have had to deal with sickness in employment. Ring up ACAS, they are mostly on the side of the employee rather than the employer. They will give you all the advice you need. Also if your employers start the bullying technique tell them you would like to start the grievance procedure, it's highly likely they have none. On a different note, is your stiffness worse in the morning? If it is then as someone else said it could be Polymyalgia ruematica as my wife has, and steroids can stop it in HOURS as they have for my wife. We are not doctors. Go to the doctors and document all your attendances and days off work etc as you may need them in a tribunal. Remember that all companies will flout the law if they can get away with it. Good luck and remember your health comes first, you will survive one way or another.

Regards Flyer.

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Thank you Yes it is worse first thing and during the night

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Vit D needs magnesium to work properly so taking a magnesium supplement might be necessary.Also what dose of vit d are you on?

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Could you get your cardiologist or EP to write a letter to your company. It is awful that they are treating you this way. Afib is bad enough without the pains. Are you on statins as I have heard that they can give pains? Hope all turns out well for you. Best wishes

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One more thing. My husband has polymyalgea which gives him pains in his shoulders, hips, legs, (well all over really). Terrible in the night and first thing in the morning, but when the polymyalgea was diagnosed he was put on steroids and he was a different man within about 3/4 days. Might be worth asking about that. If you live anywhere near Surrey we can give you my husband's specialist as he is brilliant. It cost £200, but was well worth it.

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Thank you I don't live near there I'm afraid.

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Hi Vonnieruth,

I was diagnosed with PAF less than two years ago and was put on Bisoprolol. From the first moment of taking it I had problems with my walking, initially to the point of having to drag my right foot for almost a week. To cut a long story short, the problem became worse daily and for over a year I continued with the Bisoprolol, even though I advised the doctor that I could hardly walk and leg muscles were useless. The answer was to prescribe yet more Bisoprolol until I reached the stage when I was bent over like Quasimodo, my left hip started poking out and I couldn’t stand up straight or walk normally, shuffling instead for perhaps 100 yards, and holding on to the nearest support before having to find somewhere to sit down.

During this time I moved home to another area and a different doctor whose perspective on the problem was - the drug obviously doesn’t suit you! Hallelujah! I was told to stop the Bisoprolol immediately and was put on Propranolol last autumn, 10mg morning and evening. The difference was like chalk to cheese. Within two days I could stand upright and normal functioning began to restore somewhat - although that took time. I Still have a stuck-out left hip, but physio is improving the condition. Bisoprolol has a lot to answer for!

I should mention here that I have suffered from Polymyalgia rheumatic (PMR) for five years now. I am on a low dose of steroids 3.00 mg daily and tapering.

The symptoms engendered by the Bisoprolol were entirely different from the symptoms experienced initially with PMR. With PMR, there was difficulty at first in getting up in the morning, really severe headaches and tears of pure frustration, but the steroids helped enormously in clearing the pain and made one feel almost human again.

I am currently on vitamin D and Calcichew but don’t know anything about the side effects of vitamin D. I do get aches all over my middle back, usually in the evening, and having read the foregoing replies am left wondering about the vitamin. Tomorrow I have a checkup with doctor. What should I ask? Any advice would be more than welcome.

There’s some excellent advice here regarding the work situation. A lot of us can identify with or know about such situations. We’re all here to help and it’s nice to be part of such a caring ‘family’. Stay strong and look the &#* straight in the eye.

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Thank you I will I'm at my doctor's tomorrow morning at 10 20

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Hi,

I have taken Bisoprolol for a few years and maybe now and again suffer some fatigue but do have Spinal Stenosis which is probably the reason. But most definitely Vit. D does have the side effects you suffer from. I read a while back that Vit. D is an important vitamin in the diet and most of us do not have enough in our system. So, ahead I went in taking a regular dose daily and weeks later I had the self same symptoms you mention. Headaches too were persistent daily, on stopping the Vit. D tablets all the effects disappeared. Vit. D was to blame.................................Ron.

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Thanks Ron I'm thinking of not bothering with them I'm now on one a month

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