Good news on covid 19 and vitamin D - AF Association

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Good news on covid 19 and vitamin D

Auriculaire
Auriculaire

The first study has been published on a correlation between vitamin D status and severity of covid 19 infection . It is a small study ( 218 people) done in the Philippines but it clearly shows that the more deficient in vit D you are the worse the outcome and vice versa. As I am a useless technophobe I cannot post a link but there is a link at the website of Dr Malcolm Kendrick and he discusses the study. There is also a link on vitamindwiki. This might be one of the reasons why BAME persons are suffering so badly from covid as unless supplementing adequately they tend to have vitamin d deficiency . It has been known for ages that those with high vit D status do not catch colds or flu at the same rate as the deficient. Although this study is on the outcomes of those who actually did catch covid further studies should be done on whether vit D will act as a preventative as well. However as I am very cynical I am not counting on this as there is no money to be made unlike for a vaccine.

114 Replies
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I believe that vitamin D helps - but people with adequate vitamin D would tend to be health-conscious people who get out and exercise... and would be less likely to be obese than the average.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to S11m

At this time of year in the UK those who do not supplement will be unlikely to have adequate vit D. What is stored over the winter from last summer is used up. The angle of the sun is only just right to be producing it in the skin and as sunbathing in parks has been forbidden only those who can sunbathe in their gardens can benefit from any sun. Those who live in cities that have lots of pollution benefit less as pollution blocks the UVB. I was diagnosed with a severe vit D deficiency in 2007. I was amazed as I ate plenty of eggs and oily fish ,took cod liver oil supplements and spent far more time outside gardening than I was ever able to do when I lived in Brum. I also took a calcium supplement that contained the 400iu a day recommended then by the NHS. Nobody can assume that they have adequate vit D because they "eat a balanced diet" or "get oug and exercise" . The only way to know for sure is to have it measured . Obese people have worse levels and need higher levels of supplementation.

S11m
S11m
in reply to Auriculaire

I was diagnosed deficient in Vitamin D - but that was in the winter when I was disabled and did not get out much.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to S11m

My diagnosis was in early October. I should have had adequate vit D after summer . You cannot be sure that you will make enough in the summer especially if you are older. Also one needs to sunbathe. Arms and face which catch most sun just walking around outside actually make very little vit D . The most is made by the torso and thighs. These need to be exposed and for sufficient time.

Icenae
Icenae
in reply to Auriculaire

Me too. A few years ago GP rang to say I was deficient in October after a whole summer bowling and gardening.

It is now recommended that everyone, especially over 60 take vit d as we do not absorb it well through skin and all BAME people should take it including children.

I asked a GP for a test and was ignored, the nurse said it was because everyone is deficient!

That's awful but sadly I am not surprised. Vit D researchers reckon that if populations of Western countries were treated so as to reach levels of 40 -50 ng/l ( 100-125 nmol/l ) billions could be saved in healthcare costs. But that would be money not going into Pharma coffers or medical device company coffers. Might even put afew doctors out of work.

I do not doubt that we have a vitamin difficiency as we get older that compromises our immunity system. It would help to explain as to why the majority of young people seem to handle it better. In my case it would have to be a vitamin that does not set my Afib flying, still, a bit of Afib over Coronavirus, is a bit of a no brainer😕

Hilly22
Hilly22
in reply to john6

I’m a bit careful about taking supplements. I’ve managed to find some multivitamins without minerals which I take every other day, so half the recommended dose to be in the safe side. And I do take some extra vitamin c on top of that, which is water soluble so excreted easily and less likely to cause harm. On top of that I eat a balanced diet.

Be wary of taking mineral supplements ... I learnt that lesson the hard way 🙁

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Hilly22

Viamin D is neither a vitamin nor a mineral. It is a seco steroid hormone. It is very difficult to get enough from food as the only foods that have substantial amounts are oily fish and egg yolks. There is some in dairy products but only if the cows are raised outside. There is no vit D3 in any non animal product so vegans have to supplement. The main way of getting it is from sunshine but as we age our skins are less efficient at making it.

Hilly22
Hilly22
in reply to Auriculaire

Interesting. I’m taking 100% of the NVA of vitamin D every other day, have oily fish at least twice a week, lots of eggs, and doses of sunshine when it’s on offer. I wonder if I’m getting enough like that.

Hilly22
Hilly22
in reply to Hilly22

I’ve just read this ...

nutraingredients.com/Articl...

I’m ordering some from Amazon today!

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Hilly22

Thank you for posting this. I had noticed that death rates in Australia were much lower . I also read an article where an Italian doctor was saying that vit D deficiency in the elderly in Lombardy was very high. If one is deficient then taking 1000iu a day will not correct that deficiency for months. Here in France they give a loading dose - an ampoule of 200,000iu. Even in the UK loading doses can be given. My sister had very low vitD and was diagnosed with a parathyroid tumour. She was given a prescription for capsules of 50,000iu twice a week for 6 weeks. She said these made an enormous difference to how she felt including mentally. She was scared she was getting dementia her memory and concentration had got so bad. The vit D got rid of her brainfog .

Vitamin D at that dose is known to fight cancer. It's a manufactured product at this dose, as you can't patent sunshine or the vitamin itself.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Hilly22

Is the NVA still 400iu a day? Most vit D researchers reckon you need 8 to 10 times as much. Holick who is one of the foremost vit D researchers in the world says he takes 5000iu a day in winter and ups it to 10,000 at the first sign of a viral infection. The problem is that vit D dosing is very individual. I was unable to keep in the normal range on 3,000iu a day but this dose gave my husband a great level. My doc prescribed drops of an analogue. This is calcifediol what the liver produces when it has processed the cholecalciferol ( vit D3) . These drops work really well for me so I can only assume that my liver was not up to it or that I needed much more than 3,000iu a day. Women generally need more than men because they have more body fat.

Hilly22
Hilly22
in reply to Auriculaire

Yes, it’s 400iu a day in the UK. I’m reluctant to take more than that without getting my levels checked, which is tricky at the moment. My husband’s been talking about vitamin D supplements for a while now so I’ve ordered for both of us. From what you say, it probably isn’t enough, but we’ll keep on eating foods high in that vitamin, and might do a bit of semi-naked sunbathing when the weather improves again 😂. Glad to have a garden that’s not overlooked!

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Hilly22

How old are you? Older skins make vit D far less efficiently. I have taken loading ampoules of 200,000 iu with no ill effect at all. Vit D researchers have taken 10,000 iu a day for months without going out of the upper end of the normal range into the toxic range . Even the UK guidelines give 4000iu as the upper limit. 400iu will hardly increase your levels at all. It certainly won't give you a level of 100nmol/l which is the minimum you should be aiming for. The UK advice on vit D from dosing to range levels is useless. The UK level for what is adequate is the lowest in Europe. You should take a look at some of the vit D research on vitamindwiki.

Hilly22
Hilly22
in reply to Auriculaire

I’m 67, 68 in October, so hopefully still getting some benefits from sunlight.

Thanks for the interesting information, and the enlightening post, it’s definitely something I’ll be looking into further.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Hilly22

Unfortunately our skins ( I was 68 last month) only make one third the amount of a twenty year old's! So we have to do more prolonged sunbathing . That is easy here. The sun is warm enough on good days in February even though there is no vit D to be had north of Madrid till the last week in March. I sunbathe in winter to develop a bit of tan so that when the sun is at the right angle to give enough UVB for vit D production I have less risk of burning. But in the UK that is much harder. I am methodical with sunbathing building up slowly and spending up to an hour a day whole body by June. I still wear trousers and elbow length sleeves for gardening though as I have a fair skin and don't tan easily. It can be so hot here in summer that I have had to make a sort of gilet with that silver stuff you see protecting car windows as I can feel the sun burning my back through the t -shirt! Sunbathing is not just good for vit d production. The UVA produces nitric oxide in our bodies that relaxes our arteries and reduces blood pressure.

Hilly22
Hilly22
in reply to Auriculaire

Thanks for that useful information Auriculaire. I’ve sent off for 2 NHS vitamin D lab tests, and if you like, will let you know when we have the results ... I can’t wait to know so I can act 😊

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Hilly22

Please do let me know the results. I have read a lot of the research into vit D over the past 10 years and am convinced of the benefits of having a good level- and by that I don't mean just making it into bottom of the desirable range. There is a huge difference between the bottom of the range and the top and there is no reason why one should not aim for the sort of levels that humans evolved with - ie the sort of levels that those Africans that still live traditionally hanging about in the sun with no clothes on acheive.

Hilly22
Hilly22
in reply to Auriculaire

Thank you x

Hilly22
Hilly22
in reply to Auriculaire

By the way, I found your article - very interesting ...

drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/...

Tryfan
Tryfan
in reply to Auriculaire

I did read that mushrooms or a source of vitamin D. More especially if you leave them in sunlight before storing or consuming. Any thoughts?

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Tryfan

Mushrooms produce ergocalciferol vit D2. This is not the form used by our bodies which produce cholecalciferol vitD3. D2 does work but not as well. However the amount produced is small and really not of any significance. You would have to eat kilos of mushrooms to get anything worthwhile.

maria68
maria68
in reply to Hilly22

Interesting about vitamin supplements Hilly22. What did you take and how did it affect you?

I took a higher dose of Vitamin B12 last week and had a number of AF attacks over the following days. I’ve put this down to the extra supplement but who knows ?

LaceyLady
LaceyLady
in reply to Hilly22

A good multivitamin and mineral supplement is better that separate supplements. Vitamins and minerals need others to assimilate into the body properly. This was advice from a nutritionist I knew, and I agree!

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to john6

I take vit D prescription drops every day. In the past I have had loading ampoules from the doc of 200,000iu at a time. It has never set off an afib attack. It is wise to take magnesium as well if supplementing with vit D as magnesium helps absorption. Some people have reported jitteriness if supplementing a lot that subsequently disappeared with taking magnesium.

Well doesn't bode well for those of us who cannot take VitD supplements in any form, my levels are permanently low but that's how it is for me 😕

Perhaps invest in a UVB lamp? I have one of these that I used to use in the winter but tend to neglect as my prescribed vit D drops give me a high level. You use it for a very short time building up from about 1min back and front to 4 mins depending on your skin type.

Every winter I would get coughs and colds, then 3 winters ago I had a bad case of flu where I lost a stone in weight over 2 weeks. From then on I started taking vitamin D in liquid form and vitamin C, have sailed through the last two winters without as much as a sniffle. I'm hoping I'll be protected from the Covid19 virus too.

I've read that the Chinese used large doses of vitamin C, successfully, to treat their people with the virus.

Jean

The Chinese also have very low levels of vitamin D according to vitamindwiki. The peopoe of the Middle East are the lowest because they cover themselves up especially the women.

All this is very interesting; I went to the States a couple of years ago to join my daughter and her family who were touring. We were in Utah and Arizona and I allowed myself safe exposure to the sun every day. What utterly amazed me was the number of Eastern people that were totally covered up. I am talking about large hats, face coverings, jackets and socks and to top it all an umbrella - not a centimetre of skin to be seen.

MarkS
MarkS
in reply to irene75359

Ahhh...Utah/Arizona, probably my favourite places in the world particularly the slot canyons around the Grand Staircase Escalate. I can't say I saw any Eastern people there but then we were in the back country a lot.

This is a great topic by the way.

irene75359
irene75359
in reply to MarkS

We didn't go there but went to Bryce Canyon, it was utterly breath-taking. My son-in-law preferred it to the Grand Canyon. Happy free days!

A good and important point. I have read other articles also saying vitamin D will help the immune system fight Covid-19, so I now take a daily supplement and sunbathe for just 15 minutes if the weather permits.

Dr Campbell

And Dr Seheult

I’ve take Adcal D3 for years for a bone density issue Osteopenaia, bought from the local chemist at a cost of around £3-4 per month. I’m out and about daily walking the dog and my main holiday is in the winter chasing the sun but still have low Vit D levels. Speak to your GP or pharmacist and ask their advice rather than self medicating with an incorrect dose. My understanding is that vit D is not stored in the body hence requirements for daily doses.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Lucymoo

I take the dose prescribed by my GP here in France. Vit D is stored in the body. What is made in the summer is stored for the winter. If it were needed daily life in the Northern hemisphere where there is none from the sun would not have flourished. It is stored in fat. Most GPs in UK would follow the NHS guidelines of 400iu a day which are totally inadequate. They are not up to date with the latest scientific research which is why vit D deficiency is so widespread with all the attendant health problems that this entails. I took some English friends down to our local lab to get their vit D levels tested. They were both very deficient. On returning to UK they showed the results to their GP. He shrugged and told them to buy some in Boots. No advice about what to take. Here they would have been prescribed a loading dose to correct their level quickly . If your levels are still low it is because you are not taking enough for you no matter what it says on the bottle.

Lucymoo
Lucymoo
in reply to Auriculaire

My dosage was prescribed by my consultant following delta scan fractured sternum following a minor car accident and advised to take it king term. At £3-4 per-month it’s cheaper to buy over the counter than obtain on prescription......now I get free prescriptions I still buy my little assist to the NHS.

I feel that my consultant and GP have advised correctly vit D is not stored king term by the body.

Everyone approaches this in their own way and for their own reasons. I’ve had 3 fractures so far and will continue with my current does as blood tests indicate my levels remain low.

Kind regards

Belle11
Belle11
in reply to Auriculaire

The French seem to be more enlightened.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Belle11

There is more emphasis on preventative health measures. We get regular blood tests for things like blood sugar , ferretin ,cholesterol etc.

This is really interesting. I read a report on this forum from someone saying they hadn’t had any colds since they started using it, and so I started taking vit D3 1,000 daily last October. We eat loads of eggs, oily fish etc and I am a dog walker and avid gardener, so no stranger to sunshine.

Now according to NHS 111, I did contract covid19 in the middle of March (yes, I couldn’t get tested because I wasn’t in hospital, so there is a level of uncertainty).

However, despite being 71, the acute phase of the infection was relatively mild. I unfortunately got Swine flu in 2009, and I remember how desperately ill I felt then. Absolutely no comparison in severity.

Another difference though is the time it is taking for me to get back to full health. I still have mildly aching lungs and cough and my viral fatigue is proving stubborn. But maybe that is the difference between being 60 and 71.

You could think about upping your vit D . 1,000iu is a small dose. Many people who were not ill enough to be hospitalised are reporting being wiped out by covid. As more info emerges about it it appears to be a very nasty virus with lots of different ways of buggering up the body. You could also try NAC- n acetyl cysteine. This is good for lung health and if there is any build up of phlegm helps to get rid of it. It also supports the immune system . I take this every day plus vit D and I have not had a cold since March 2016. There's very little covid where I live and I haven't been out for nearly 8 weeks but I am hoping my high levels of vit D will help if I do get it once we are unlocked here . Hope you start to feel better soon.

What dosage would you suggest for N acetal cysteine?

I take 600mg a day which is the minimum size of capsules that I have found. I have corresponed with people who take 3 times that. Some people just take it from Sept till March.

Thanks

I had read some months ago that low vitamin D status can affect the lung function. I think it was in relation to people with COPD and those with the lowest levels of the vitamin have worse symptoms. I was mindful to ensure that my vitamin D levels were increased during my covid-19 experience. I don't have COPD, by the way. I'll try and find the paper.

This is true. Asthma also is worse in people with low vit D. It makes you wonder if all these asthmatic kids might be a result of slathering them in sunscreen whenever the sun appears. When I was a child we were encouraged to play outside and sunscreen did not exist. Even so growing up in cloudy rainy Lancashire I was suspected by the heathvisitor of being vit D deficient ( a hint of bandy legs which I am sure was actually genetic). A regime of disgusting cod liver oil every morning was decreed and I was sent for UVB lamp treatment.

Not to mention all the chemicals in the creams their bodies are absorbing.

Yeah- plus the damage to the environment when they wash off in the sea or in the shower.

Exactly. I read similar reports and wondered if that is why BAME folk suffer more. I copied it to our road whatsapp group as several of our lovely neighbours are BAME and medics. Also my nephew and neice. Working in ITU. also TFL bus drivers are mostly BAME and many death amongst them. Low vit D and germy steering wheels and cabs.

One of the charts in the article show that almost all the people whose serum level of vitamin D was greater than 75nmol/L had a very mild illness with Covid-19. Lower levels were associated with a more severe illness. For anyone that can't get a test done on the NHS, there is an NHS lab which does tests for the public at £29 vitamindtest.org.uk/

I have to take 2000iu daily to keep my levels up

Hilly22
Hilly22
in reply to Belle11

Thank you, that’s really helpful. I’ve just ordered 2 tests 😊

Belle11
Belle11
in reply to Hilly22

You're welcome Hilly. Good health to you.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Belle11

I take drops which my doc prescribes. I keep my level at between 55-70 ng/l ( 137-175nmol/l) . This is very high but still well below the top of the normal range.30ng/l is the start of the desirable range here but the level is lower in the UK. So what is considered an adequate level of vit D in the UK actually puts you in the bracket where you are likely to suffer more from covid 19. Hardly surprising that the death rate there is on course to be the worst in Europe.

Belle11
Belle11
in reply to Auriculaire

I usually have my levels at 120+ but had got lazy with supplementing this winter and it had gone below 75nmol/L - so I've redoubled my efforts at taking it every day.

Terricotta
Terricotta
in reply to Belle11

Are you sure about this site? It looks a bit dodgy to me.

Belle11
Belle11
in reply to Terricotta

It's not at all dodgy Terrricotta. I've used it several times - it's run from the NHS Black Country Pathology services dept. The contact address on the website is

E-mail: vitd@cityassays.org.uk

Address: Clinical Biochemistry Department,

Black Country Pathology Services

City Hospital

Birmingham, B18 7QH

That would explain why Covid is so rampant among those in nursing homes. They are locked inside 24/7 and supplementation is not high on the list of necessities according to allopathic medicine.

I use Bio Mulsion Forte drops which provide 2000 IU per drop. I used to take 1 drop a day, but on the advice of our doctor upped it to 3 drops per day to cover me for this virus. My last 25OH2 blood test showed my level to be at 80 ng/ml, which thrilled my cardiologist no end.

Gosh that's even higher than mine the last time I was tested. I read an anecdote about an American doc who got all his patients up to 80ng/l . He put himself out of business as surgery visits plummeted!

I have to say that I have not had any colds or upper respiratory infections or the flu in at least 12 years and I never get a flu shot. That aligns with when our functional medicine doctor sent us to see a board certified nutritionist because of my wife's celiac disease and my non-celiac gluten sensitivity.

He ran the 25OHD and Spectracell Test for Nutrient deficiencies and the Spectracell particle test for cholesterol every 6 months. After each result was back, he changed our supplement doses accordingly.

After a couple years when certain things remained high, like my Homocysteine level and others low, like my wife's B 12 and Vitamin D levels we had nutrigenomic testing done. That is how I found out I have the MTHFR gene mutation. I have to take Methylated forms of folate and B 12 so that the homocysteine stays down.

My wife has a genetic inability to process D and B 12, so even with massive doses her levels barely make it into the normal range. She takes 50,000 units of D once per week. If she tests low, then she takes 50,000 for 3 days, which usually brings it up. We also have been advised to get 20 minutes of sun per day with arms and legs exposed and without any sunscreen. My wife also takes massive doses of Methylated B 12 to keep herself out of the B12 anemia range. When it dips down, she has to go for shots for a couple of week until it comes back up. She also has an issue with antioxidant function and takes 10,000mg of C daily. That has really improved over the years because in the beginning it took 35,000 mg to get to bowel tolerance. She also has to take 750mg of Magnesium in order to not have any migraines, as well as watching her diet strictly.

The key to knowing what to take is to have the right tests run. Don't just guess or your system will get out of balance.

I guess you live in America. I doubt we could get that sort of gene testing done here on the state health system.

Oh yes, we are in America. We paid thousands of dollars for the testing. It has gotten cheaper over the years.

We were advised by our insurance agent that it probably would be covered, but with our US private health insurance system there used to be an issue with coverage for pre-existing conditions.

Who knew what would turn up and what Big Brother would do with the information?

Our health system does not cover anything apart from conventional medicine. I have wondered if I have the MTHFR mutation as it is has been suggested as a factor in the severity of reactions to fluoroquinolones.

It is not just the fluoroquinolones I react to, but also every blood pressure drug they have ever tried.

I ended up in the emergency room getting IV morphine after 2 doses of Cipro for a UTI prescribed by my urologist.

To make a long story short, in 2015 I had such back pain after taking Cipro the doctor sent me to the ER thinking I had a kidney stone. I received IV Morphine. All the tests came back negative and I actually did not have any sort of infection, yet the idiot ER doctor prescribed Levaquin, another fluoroquinolone even though my wife and I suspected a drug reaction to the Cipro. He said he was prescribing it "just in case."

I was also referred to an orthopedic surgeon because the back pain was spreading to my legs and I was unable to walk after spending 5 hours in the ER. The orthopedic surgeon wanted me to have an MRI, but the insurance company said I had to wait 6 weeks to see if I still needed it.

My wife was not happy about any of this and dragged me to the Functional Medicine Doctor. He reviewed my records and immediately zeroed in on the Cipro and my MTHFR. He sent me to a neurologist and it was finally determined that the Cipro caused nerve damage in my back and legs. It took me about 4 months to recover. Needless to say the Levaquin went in the trash and I will never take another fluroquinolone!

Back in the late 1980's my wife was having terrible sinus infections and was prescribed Cipro. She also started having terrible tendon problems including chronic tendinitis and small tears in her Achilles. She was constantly at the orthopedic surgeon getting shots of cortisone into her shoulder, elbow, hand, thumb, ankle etc. At the time, we did not know about the connection between Fluoroquinolones and tendon problems. It took about 20 years until a savvy doctor figured out that the drug was the cause of her problem after reviewing her prescription history. Sadly, for her the damage is done and she has had problems for the past 33 years. The cortisone shots probably made everything worse. She maxed out on the number of injections allowed into each tendon before we knew of the dangers of those! No wonder they call it the practice of medicine.

I have a similar tale of woe. I believe I was first floxed in 1989 after being given courses of antibiotics for sinus problems. I remember shortly afterwards having Achilles tendon problems. Later that year I developed excruciating back pain. This continued on and off for years. Knee pain also set in. Falling blood sugar , nausea, tendonitis in the base of my thumbs. I think I was given Cipro again in 1999 along with Pred for severe bronchitis following flu. Then the rib pain started. I had Cipro iv again in 2014 for acute diverticulitis . This time cardiac reaction and neuropathy. After 2 days they stopped it but did not tell me it was a reaction to the drug and I should never have it again. Again prescribed it by my GP in 2015 for suspected UTI. I took one pill only then looked it up and discovered floxing and all my health problems of the last quarter century fell into place. One week later I was in the cardiac ward with afib.I am now nearly five years out. I have tendon pain all over and no cartilage at all in my right hip. At 68 I move around like a 90 year old some days. I have given up on ever healing from this. I suspect the left hip is going too. Once all this covid had died down I will get a replacement. FQs are poison

So sorry that you too have had to deal with being floxed. Some of the stories on the website created by survivors are just horrifying and make what my wife and I went through look like nothing.

In the US they have stopped making Levaquin, but the other drugs in the class are still available. I get angry when I hear that friends and relatives are taking it for relatively minor illnesses, when there are so many other, less toxic drugs, available to treat them. So many people just take whatever the doctor says as gospel and they take the drugs handed out without ever thinking they could be harmed. Sadly, we have seen our niece deteriorate in front of our eyes, but she will not ever consider that it could be the medical care she is getting and she has been given repeated doses of Cipro for Sinus infections.

No drug passes our lips until a full investigation of possible adverse effects and we do a risk/benefit analysis. More than a few doctors hate that attitude because they are arrogant enough to believe they know it all. Whenever possible we turn to homeopathic and natural remedies now and actually have been doing much better.

Indeed. Despite my skeletal problems I still consider that I have only been mildly floxed. It is terrible to have to witness what is happening to your niece and especially knowing how much worse it could get if she continues to take Cipro. Can you not point out to her that even the FDA has said that FQs should not be used for banal infections like sinusitis and uncomplicated UTI? And that in continuing to prescribe her doctor is going against the latest advice. My sinusitis was fixed by acupuncture.

We sent her all the information about Cipro, which she promptly took to her doctor. He assured her that it was perfectly safe, even though it carries a black box warning.

In the end, what cured my wife of her chronic sinus infection was Oil of Oregano. She heard a radio show one evening about it and called in. They told her to get the doctor to check for a fungal infection since any bacteria would have already been killed from all the Cipro, Amoxil, Ceclor and other antibiotics she had been given over the previous year.

The doctor was reluctant, but took the swab and sent it out to be tested. She started taking the Oil of Oregano as soon as she was tested, and by the time she got the results that it was a fungal infection, she was over it. The doctor did a second swab and the fungus was gone! "I'll be damned. Learn something new everyday," was his response. We always have Oil of Oregano capsules and the oil on hand just in case.

I have used oil of oregano alongside d mannose to successfully treat a UTI. I also took it when my husband came down with a bad virus just before Christmas. I managed not to get it.

Interesting that Dr Malcolm Kendrick referred to several times in this thread takes 4000IU per day. What needs stressing again is the need for a loading dose of at least 200,000IU. Otherwise it takes months to get up to usefully high levels.

Vitamin D has been known for decades. Perhaps the NHS should speedily send some loading doses to all old and vulnerable. Vit D3 liquid is cheap -- even developing countries have it.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to ILowe

Yes loading doses of 200,000 iu are given here in France in an ampoule. Vit D deficiency is taken far more seriously here but mainly for women. That is a mistake. Men might not need it to the same degree to prevent osteoporosis but do for overall health.

Our son, who is immunocompromised, was prescribed a loading dose 50,000 IU for 3 days. Then, he had to wait 2 weeks before going on 5,000 IU daily.

His level was only 30ng and the doctor was not satisfied. After this situation with the virus resolves he is suppose to be retested. He may have the genetic mutation that my wife has that makes it very difficult to get the levels up to where the doctor wants them, and keep them there.

Does this gene mutation affect liver function? If so he might do better with calcifediol. I have found that I can maintain a very high level with this . I only take 600 / 800iu of it a day. It is much more powerful apparently than cholecalciferol .

My wife's gene mutation that impacts Vitamin D processing does not impact her liver. However, as soon as those results came back the doctor immediately tested her iodine levels and thyroid. Her thyroid was OK, but she had very low iodine levels. It took a year to get that up to normal.

We do know that our immunocompromised son is what they call a Slow Acetylator, which means he has trouble clearing drugs from his system that have to be metabolized by the liver. We found that out when he developed Drug Induced Lupus from Minocycline when he was 17. He also has liver damage from the Plaquenil, Voltaren and Prednisone they gave him for 18 months during the time he was misdiagnosed as having Systemic Lupus.

See why we hate the medical profession?

I suspect I might have ghat as I am very susceptible to drugs. I had hives this winter and took Cetirizine. One quarter of a pill kept away the hives for 4/5 days! But I still got side effects and had to stop taking it- result withdrawal itching in areas that the hives had never come like my scalp , palms and soles of feet. I know how you feel about doctors. On the whole I have no confidence in them and I am afraid of being in a position where I have no control over what they dose me with. I have a dog tag necklace that says "No Fluoroquinolones " and have decided I would rather die than be floxed again ( and worse the next time).

The medical evidence is all in favour of what you say. Men and Women, especially older people. In some of the papers I have read it is not even necessary to test for blood levels first, since the Vitamin D is cheap and safe. This applies even to people who live in tropical countries, because in these climates you become expert at subconsciously avoiding the sun.I would argue for 600,000IU taken maybe over 2-3 months.

The consensus on vitamindwiki seems to be that regular doses work better than sporadic loading doses. A loading dose to up levels initially is necessary as doses of 2/3000iu a day will take months to correct a deficiency. Once the deficiecy is corrected with a loading dose maintenance doses either daily or weekly can be given. Testing will then determine if the maintenance doses are sufficient to achieve a good level. This was my own experience. My deficiency was corrected with a loading dose. I then received these ampoules sporadically but in between my levels would fall and then could not make it into the desirable range even on 3000iu a day purchased at Boots (vitD3 is not avaiable for over the counter purchase in the pharmacies here so I would get a stock on visits to the UK) .My GP suggested drops of calcifediol and taken daily. These work very well for me and lead me to suspect that either my liver was just not doing a very good job of processing the cholecalciferol or that I needed much more than 3,000iu a day due to being overweight. By contrast my husband (not overweight) achieved a level of 47ng/ l on the 3000iu. We both sunbathe but he can spend longer in the sun as his skin is darker. I really don't understand people being so wary of taking more than the outdated and useless NHS recommendation of 400iu a day. If they read the research available online they would see that it is very hard to become toxic and just how wrong this advice is. They are actually jeopardising their health far more by not taking larger amounts than by sticking to this advice and having a poor level. Because the research is clear - in the absence of full body regular (daily) year round sun exposure it is hard to achieve levels that will ensure good health. The propaganda over the last 2 decades against sun exposure has ensured widespread vitD deficiency and even a reappearance of rickets.

Hi again Auriculaire

I said I’d let you know the results of my vitamin D test. I received them this morning after a two week wait.

Total vitamin D 40.7 nmol/L = insufficient

Broken down into vitamin D3 -24.7 nmol/L and vitamin D2 - 16 nmol/L

Since taking the test 2 weeks ago I’ve been taking a supplement of1200 IU a day. I hope this will be enough to get me up to a sufficient 50 nmol/L

My husband is still waiting for his results.

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

I hope you’re safe and well

Hilary xx

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Hilly22

The D3 is what counts. 50nmol/ is NOT sufficient . This is the equivalent of 20ng/l which is not considered sufficient here in France and the rest of Europe. Here the sufficiency is 30ng/l ie 75 nmol / l and they don't waste resources measuring D2 which is what plants produce. The UK is behind with it's low levels for adequacy. The studies done on vit D levels in covid patients clearly show that less than 75 n mol/l landed you in the suffering badly / dying group. 1200iu a day will not cut it in raising your D3 rapidly enough to have any worthwhile protection if you were unfortunate enough to catch the virus. At the University hospital at Angers here they are running a clinical trial giving covid patients either 400,000 iu (at once) or 50,000iu. They know from experience here that these huge loading doses are completely safe. So if you want to get up to a safe level of vit D (ie 75nmol/l minimum and preferably much higher ) you need to take at least 4000iu a day for a couple of months then test again to see where you are. As you can see from your results following the recommended 400iu a day has been useless in giving you an adequate level and it would be for all adults if that was their only source of D3. A young white person's body will make between 5000 and 10,000iu in 20 minutes of midday sun in summer if they expose all of it. Why on earth the numpties of SACN thought that 400iu was sufficient is a mystery.

@Auriculaire, I have been following this post with great interest and yesterday, following what you know, have posted back our test strips for vitamin D readings. Thank you for all your help on this, will post when (eventually) I get results.

Hope your results are better than Hilly's!

Honestly, if I received a report that said I was deficient I would be so relieved; I have tiredness bordering on exhaustion most days and I lead such a healthy lifestyle. I'll come back and let you know.

Tiredness is definitely a symptom of vit D deficiency. My sister was given high dose capsules to correct hers when her parathyroid adenoma was discovered as she had to wait for the op and she said it made a huge difference to her energy levels. I think they were 50,000iu and she took 2 a week for a month. Also to her memory and concentration. She had been terrified she was getting dementia as her cognitive abilities were declining.

I told my daughter about this thread, and she told me her friend went to the doctor as she was feeling tired all the time (late 30s). The doctor tried to brush her off, 'young Mum, broken nights' etc but she insisted on tests. She was found to be seriously deficient too.

Sadly this does not surprise me. Vit D deficiency is at epidemic levels in many countries. The decades of stupid advice on sun avoidance and slathering yourself with noxious chemical laden creams has compounded this. The Russians had stats 50 years ago that women who sunbathed topless had less breast cancer. I am a cynic and always say follow the money. Well here the money trail leads to L'Oreal who are well implicated in this - just like Nestlé were in the scandal of advising mothers in third world countries to use formula milk rather than breastfeed.

Finally! Received my results this morning.

Total vitamin D: 77.9 nmol/L

Status: adequate

(25-hydroxyvitamin D3: 75.1 nmol/L 25-hydroxyvitamin D2: 2.8 nmopl/L)

What do you think about these levels? Would appreciate your opinion.

This is just above the European adequate level of 75 nmol/l. Personally I would not be happy with such a level but would try to increase it to around a minimum of 100nmol/l. I don't know the relevance of the D2. They don't measure that here.

Having looked at lots of studies, I agree. Thank you for your help.

Auriculaire, many thanks for your original post and all your knowledge, and the interesting information you prompted. I’m going check out the Vd and Vc

I started some wks ago. I’m very interested in making sure that I’m not too low, and also that my IPF is not affected XTHERESE 💕😊🌈

Hilly22
Hilly22
in reply to irene75359

Irene, don’t be surprised if you don’t get your results quickly, it took two weeks from posting our blood to receiving our emails. Do please let us know, I’ll be very interested to hear your results.

irene75359
irene75359
in reply to Hilly22

Hilly22 I must be imagining I saw a reply from you, so just alerting you to my results. I am pleased but also left wondering what is causing my utter exhaustion. But I will keep on eating the salmon! (we rarely eat meat, but lots of fish, mostly salmon).

Hilly22
Hilly22
in reply to irene75359

Sorry Irene, my fault. I pressed the wrong button when editing and deleted it.

I was just saying that from what I gather your results are good, so much better than mine but that’s not saying much ... I’m quite envious! Like you, I’ll be interested in what Auriculaire says. Have you been taking supplements?

I feel much more tired than I used to, it could be the bisoprolol but there are so many other things that can cause tiredness. I hope you find the answer 😊

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Hilly22

I felt like death warmed up when first given Bisoproplol! Someone posted on here recently that beta blockers interfere with the conversion of T4 to T 3. This would certainly cause tiredness. Have you substantially upped your vit D supplements yet? I get a newsletter from Medscape . There was an article this time on vit D and covid. In the comments ( which are mainly from doctors and other health care professionals ) there were some who said they had to supplement at 10,000 iu a day in order to reach a reasonable level.

Hilly22
Hilly22
in reply to Auriculaire

Hi Auriculaire

I spoke to our GP who suggested we both take 1000iu a day, me for 3 months and my husband all year round because of his darker skin. I said we’d been taking 2000 each which he thought would probably be safe but not recommended by the NHS! I asked about loading doses and he said no! It was the reaction we expected of course. We ended up having a bit of a disagreement so in the end I said we’d do as he suggested while actually taking more. Most days we take 2000iu but on top of that we’ve been baring our skin to the sun, sans the sun cream.

What we’ve decided to do is get our levels retested in about 8 weeks and go from there. We’re prepared to up our intake considerably if needs be. My husband is more cautious than I am because he’s seen cases of hypercalcaemia (hence the further testing), though we both know that’s highly unlikely to happen in our cases!

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Hilly22

It is true that increasing vitD will increase absorption of calcium in the diet from the gut. Vit D supplementation should ideally be accompanied by magnesium and vit K2 . This is more important if calcium intake from the diet is high and essential if calcium supplements are used. The attitude to loading doses of UK doctors are odd. They are used here to up vit D quickly. I have had several with no ill effects of 200.000iu . Then daily supplements will maintain the level. I would be surprised if your present regime of 2000iu a day got you to the European adequate level. It will depend somewhat on your weight. Because vit D is fat soluble fatter people tend to secrete it in their adipose tissue and generally need more to get their blood levels up. My husband responds better to vit D supplementation than I do as I am fat. It is a good idea to have calcium levels tested at the same time as vitD levels. When my sister had the parathyroid adenoma she had high calcium but rock bottom vit D and she was given loading doses by her GP in Huddersfield. (Though that may have been on the say so of the consultant she saw ). The sun bathing should up it a bit even though our older skins make vit D less efficiently. Do let me know how you get on.

Have you had your thyroid checked recently?

I went to my GP last year because I was feeling so tired all the time. She ordered full blood tests, I have a copy of the results but I don't think this tested my thyroid. Perhaps this is another test I should be having. I am not normally anxious about my health but I am starting to really question that there may be something the doctor missed.

Thyroid testing and treatment in the UK is dire. My husbands's ex wife was nearly on her last legs ( horribly swollen too!) when a change of doc finally led to her hypothyroidism diagnosis. She had lost all her body hair including eyebrows and lashes ,a lot of her head hair and could barely walk to the end of the road. Her useless GP kept telling her it was the menopause. The new GP took one look at her after hearing her hoarse voice and sent her for testing. He had obviously paid attention in the hypothyroidism signs and symptoms lecture! Her TSH was sky high. Other classic symptoms of hypothyroidism are feeling cold all the time even in summer and constipation. Loss of outer third of eyebrows is indicative too . I lost mine and they never really came back much after treatment. It took me 7 years to get diagnosed during which time I put on a shed load of weight which never shifted though I did stop gaining on treatment.

Hilly22
Hilly22
in reply to Auriculaire

Thanks for your response Auriculaire. I hadn’t realised my levels were so short of optimal. My husband’s had his results now and his are even worse than mine at 25 nmol/L. As you can imagine, he’s quite concerned. He’s of Asian origin! I’m going to show him what you’ve said. Although he’s a retired physician he isn’t au fait with the latest studies on this vitamin. Sounds as if he needs some high dosing.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Hilly22

Unfortunately the attitude to vit D in the UK is very outdated and this includes the medical profession. On the whole things are better here and vit D deficiency is taken more seriously. I would point him in the direction of vitamindwiki a site that is devoted to vit D research.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Hilly22

He is really seriously deficient. And in danger of having a severe case if he does catch the virus. You need to rectify this quickly.

Hilly22
Hilly22
in reply to Auriculaire

Yes, he definitely needs to take urgent action. We’ve both been supplementing with 1000-1200 iu a day for the last 2 weeks. We’ll increase our doses now, him especially, and maybe speak to our GP on Monday. Will go to the wiki site now.

Honestly, we can’t thank you enough 😊

Auriculaire
Auriculaire
in reply to Hilly22

Do not be surprised if your GP does not take the matter seriously enough. I am incensed ( though not surprised) that there has been absolutely no mention at all of these vit D level studies in relation to covid severity on the BBC news.. This is especially bad in the light of the surveys into the vulnerability of BAME persons in the UK and USA to covid. Even taking into account factors of poverty ,poor housing , liklihood of being in more exposed jobs etc BAME persons were still almost twice as likely to die as white people. The red flag for me was when nearly all the docs and hospital consultants who were dying were BAME. Consultants are not poor but many are unfortunately probably ignorant of both their vit D status and it's importance for immune function. This is the key. The low levels recommended by SACN are all to do with the prevention of rickets and osteomalacia and nothing else. There seems to be no awareness at all of the importance of vit D in immune function or general health. The desirable range for vit D runs from 75 nmol/ l to 250nmol/ l here. Most vit D researchers say we should aim for a minimum of 90nmol/ l and preferably be in the 125- 200 nmol/l range. To say that 50nmol/l is sufficient is in my opinion verging on criminal negligence. Given that the experience with loading doses has shown them to be safe I cannot understand why people are not being urged to take vit D to bolster their immune systems . It would do them a lot more good than constantly washing their hands to the tune of Happy Birthday.

Hilly22
Hilly22
in reply to Auriculaire

I’m not expecting much of a reaction from our GP to be honest, but will ring him anyway.

I agree with you. I know I was a bit sceptical to start with, but having read what you say and done some research I’m with you. We both are.

Every Saturday we ring my husband’s family who live in the USA and Canada ... today I’m going to urge these darkish-skinned people to have their Vit D levels checked if they haven’t already. I might even write something on my Facebook page, as I feel the need to get the word out there. My own family are fair-skinned but I’ve let them know about it anyway and might treat them all to a test! Thanks Auriculaire 💐

irene75359
irene75359
in reply to Hilly22

I'm not sure how many you are intending to buy but where I bought mine were heavily discounted for a pack of 10.

vitamindtest.org.uk/?gclid=...

They did warn that turnaround was about 14 days at the moment.

Hilly22
Hilly22
in reply to irene75359

I saw that, good idea. Thanks for reminding me Irene 😊

Hilly22
Hilly22
in reply to irene75359

Do check your spam mail for the results. My husband had received his 3 days before mine but it went into his junk mail ... he didn’t see it for 3 days.

irene75359
irene75359
in reply to Hilly22

And thank you for that too...it wouldn't be the first time I have missed something!

Has to be noted that some people have naturally low vitd levels and are absolutely fine as they are, I am one and any attempt to raise my levels beyond my set point results in me feeling very unwell.

Huge loading doses are not safe for everyone and anyone with a very low level should be careful.

"Anyone with a very low level should be careful." Unless you know for certain that your low level is natural for you and not because you are deficient you would be wiser to get out of the deficient range . Have you tried raising your level with consistent sun exposure rather than taking supplements? Have you taken magnesium alongside the vit D? Vit D supplementation can lead to feeling unwell one has low magnesium levels as the two work together .

Sun is fine but my levels are still low and that is where my body likes it, taking magnesium with vitd doesn't solve the intolerance to vitd. Having previously had hypercalcemia my set points may be altered so I don't try and mess with them.

I’ve just spoken to my sister-in-law who lives in Canada. She tells me her doctor has been trying to get her to take vitamin D supplements for years but she’s resisted as she felt she was taking enough pills already! She’s a retired anaesthetic so I must have sounded as if I was trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs, but she hadn’t realised that she could be deficient. She’s promised me she’ll have a test done.

Likewise my brother-in-law who lives in the USA.

I feel as if I might be improving the “R” rate - getting the word out there! 😊

It just goes to show how profound the ignorance about the necessity for vit D is even among doctors! Asians often tend to avoid the sun especially women - I suspect because it darkens their complexion and paler skin is culturally more desirable. If they are Muslim there is often the religious habits of covering . Hindus often do not eat the foods rich in vit D like liver, oily fish and eggs especially if they are strict vegetarians. It is even more essential for them to get tested.

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