I am currently taking 3ml of Ivermectin weekly, and have just added 3ml of Fenbendazole. Both have had some promising results in affecting various cancers in actual research trials. I have recurrent PC after a radical prostatectomy in 2017. Took Zoladex for 9 months. PSA went from .6 to .04. Been on a vacations for 11months. My PSA after 10 months went to .05. Testosterone is now 5.85. I feel great...this feels like normal again.
I will be getting my next PSA test mid December. This will tell if the Ivermectin and Fenbendazole has helped to keep the PC from advancing. Hopefully not.
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QUOTE from the above article: "Drugs that are already clinically approved or experimentally tested for conditions other than cancer, but are found to possess previously unrecognized cytotoxicity towards malignant cells, may serve as fitting anti-cancer candidates."
I see no danger in my current "intermittent" approach, given the literature. Let's see what Ivermectin and Fenbendazole can do. Both have shown cancer affecting results in tests.
I guess you don't know what is meant by a "clinical trial." It means a drug is tried in humans with prostate cancer. This has never been done for either drug you mentioned.
With all due respect, I see that you are not a doctor, urologist or oncologist. You are an “advocate”, according to your bio. You should be careful with your pronouncements, as we who have PC are facing a difficult future. The SOC you advocate for so determinedly can be changed quickly by new scientific and medical advancements. So please don’t call Fenbendazole “dangerous” unless you have the training and research to support your claim.
I do have the background that you lack. It is dangerous to use untested medicine. If you want to take untested medicines quietly, that is your business, but people who don’t even know what a clinical trial is have no business advocating snake oil publicly.
Your response is typical of someone who has been challenged in their pronouncements.....and then circles the wagons! You may have a "background" but you have no professional expertise. Contrary to your assertion, both Ivermectin and Fenbendazole are not "untested" but there is increasing research being done. See thelancet.com/journals/ecli...
Did you even read the many links I gave you above? I doubt it, as they challenge your views. Your knowledge level is undermined when you use such ridiculous terms like "snake oil" in reference to a world famous medicine like Ivermectin (see theconversation.com/ivermec... )
Let people make their own decisions about what might or might not work, but please don't ridicule those who wish to fight PC with anything and everything they can.
Why can't I venture an opinion that is backed by research? You still haven't read the links I sent you? Research is increasing, and will lead to clinical trials.
You seem to have no problem venturing a non-professional opinion on medications like IV and Fenbendazole.
"First, learn what a clinical trial is before you venture an opinion."
"I guess you don't know what is meant by a "clinical trial." "
"I do have the background that you lack."
I see that you continue with your usual judgmental , condescending and abrasive style. Do you even realize how you sound? Is this the only way you can make your point? And just what is this background that everyone else lacks?
Yes, it is condescending - deservedly so. If you don't know what a clinical trial is, you have no business drawing treatment advice from Dr. Google. Ask your actual doctor instead.
As an "advocate" without professional medical qualifications, you are surprisingly arrogant, and appear brazenly unwilling to allow for patient directed involvement in research and application for their own condition. Are you being paid by big pharma? You appear to be oblivious to recent advances in the development of new methodologies for designing clinical trials. Let me direct you to this site, where patient involvement in empirical data collection and application is considered important, and is increasing.
Here is a quote from that article which speaks to/gives some rationale to my not-yet SOC approach. This should also give you some cause to pause in your unhelpful and condescending attack upon non SOC approaches. After all, medicine has advanced through the ages by experimentation and the application of treatments often outside the box of traditionally accepted "authorities". To quote you, "You can check Dr Google" on that one too. Here's the quote...
"The success of future clinical trials requires a fundamental transformation in how trials are designed, conducted, monitored, adapted, reported and regulated to generate the best evidence. The status quo model is unsustainable. Instead, preventive, personalized, pragmatic and patient-participatory medicine is needed...."
Still waiting to hear about your illustrious background in medicine and prostate cancer research. And I'll be a lot more inclined to listen to an actual doctor rather than someone who is just pretending on this forum like you are.
Ivermectin and fenben are old ideas. Here on the group, several years ago , there was a lot of talk and interest in them. Also, numbers of guys here have turned, in desperation, to using them , as well, in a last ditch effort for even a tiny bit of life extension when nothing else worked.
Not one single person claimed even the tiniest benefit from them ….not one of a dozen .. and one I knew ( now deceased ) cursed them because they can falsely build up people’s hopes and expectations only to be exceeded in value by a good air freshener. There has been a great deal of discussion about ivermectin and fenben on the group, you can use the search feature to see the interactions.
'One of a dozen and one'.... got me thinking why a bakers dozen is actually 13.
As it happens, bakers used to get punished if they came up short when baking a dozen loafs of bread. Baking can be unreliable, so they'd stick an extra one in just to make sure.
Rotflol ….. well, ultimately we, all us croakers , have to make our own choices and they are often life and death related. It’s ok to hear the voices of others, but we still make our own choices. I may strongly disagree with some people here, but I have to give them space to do what they want to themselves. Influencing , trying to make others make the same ill advised ( imho ) choice isn’t appropriate I believe. It’s like elbows and xxxxoles. Everyone has them I guess. Being a retired medical professional, naturally I’m a SOC guy …SOC is keeping me alive right now. But I remember the heart wrenching saga of great_john and his desperate attempt to use these chemicals for some kind of, even a little bit, of extension of his life. We all rooted for him so much. We would have been thrilled to see either of them do something, anything. But , like every other example here, nothing happened and he croaked. I cried and I know I wasn’t the only one. After that experience, I think anyone would understand the negative thoughts I have about those. Evidently they won’t hurt you, so why not I guess. Long as you don’t expect much, you won’t be disappointed. If you are desperate, grasping at anything for a tiny bit of additional life … praying for them to help ………
Oh yeah, this “research” seems well thought out. How selfish of you to pollute this forum with such ignorant, time wasting rubbish!
Lucy Kerris is a paid consultant for both Vitamedic, an ivermectin manufacturer, and is co-founder, as well as acting as a paid consultant, for Médicos Pela Vida (MPV), an organization that promotes ivermectin as a treatment for COVID-19 and discourages COVID-19 vaccination.
Sorry to see your meltdown over my non SOC approach to my PC. LOL! Your conspiracy theories about Ivermectin are laughable. I had Covid, and took Ivermectin, which helped reduce the severity. I did not take the vaxx, like you, so suffered no ill effects, like many did. Many people were duped into taking 4-5 "boosters". If a vaccine is effective, you only need 1 shot. People who took the vaxx still got covid. We know people who died from the SOC vaxx impact, including many thousands with blood clots, heart attacks etc. You are the one wasting our time with your pro vaxx ignorance. This forum is for those with PC who want to share their treatment approaches, results, successes and failures. I am not claiming that Ivermectin can cure PC. But I am open to a non SOC approach, given that my PC has no cure. If you don't want to hear about the attempts of other people to confront their cancer - and possibly win - then go and.......
you illustrate the wrongheadedness typical of proponents of snake oil. On the one hand you reject the opinions of people who spend their lives studying data, medicines and human biology but on the other hand you listen to a podcast for example by (lets be charitable) an ex mma fighter joe rogan plus a guest financially motivated to exaggerate or outright lie, and gone! is all your original skepticism. you swallow whatever they say hook line and sinker - maybe because it runs contrary to established thinking from experts and supports your feelings that the world is lying to you (typically, on everything: vaccines, cancer, global warming, moon landings?). Lacking tools to pick the difference between science and showmanship the snake oil fan club picks the side that makes them happier. Your prerogative, but to then preach your ignorance as a solution? a line should be drawn.
From your post: you listen to a podcast for example by (lets be charitable) an ex mma fighter joe rogan plus a guest financially motivated to exaggerate or outright lie, and gone! is all your original skepticism. you swallow whatever they say hook line and sinker
Mr. street-air, why spoil your intelligent post by bringing up American politics. Stick to yours down under ( Justin Trudeau says Canada and the U.S. will 'do good things together')
BTW It would be a good idea for you to update your bio, which will help you and help members. Thank you mate!!!
Because "American politics" are a large part of why there is such a movement against expertise in every area globally. It's a virus. The two are completely linked. The podcast I refer to favored by conspiracy theorists globally switches from politics to psuedo science regularly. One day it is a UFO expert the next an anti-vax conspiracy theorist and the day after is Trump telling everyone the media, the UN and the scientific establishment are all lying.
So how's this grab ya?........ Immigrate here to "the States" and that way you can participate in elections and vote for whoever floats your boat instead of throwing barbs at us. This way you can leave being "down under" to being "way over" for a change. BTW here in America the land of viruses you'll be able to legally change your UserID from street-air to hot-air. (Note: Albo and Donald on right track).
It would be a good idea for you to update your bio, which will help you and help members. Thank you mate!!!
You yourself acknowledge in this reply that what you post does not represent clinical trials when you state , "hopefully leading to clinical trials".I understand why you want to find hope but advocating for treatments that have not been subject to clinical trials specific to prostate cancer may cause others to embark on and take drugs that are not known to have actual beneficial clinical effects in prostate cancer specifically.Prostate cancer is unique.If you we look at just one aspect of how prostate cancer grows compared to almost every other cancer in terms of the length of time of growth/spread.ADT itself causes the body to change in ways that are still not fully understood and adding drugs that have not me tested via prostate cancer clinical trials route, (phase1 , phase2 and so on) may have possible severe consequences for those that take these drugs.I hope for the best for you but one person does not make a clinical trial and all of the detailed methods that are needed to give conclusive and valid answers to all the questions relating to the drugs you mention and their effects on people of different ages, stages , treatments and pretreatments a person is having or has had
When given the diagnosis of cancer, humans tend together around one of three approaches. The first is denial, "I just can't believe it,” 15 years ago when I first got the diagnosis of prostate cancer, my wife held each other in bed and cried.
The second response is, “I can beat this.” We scoured the literature, radically changed our diet, took supplements and medications used for other ailments, as it gave us hope, a powerful director of human behavior.
The third response is Data. Not exciting and sometimes dry of hope. Orville and Wilbur Wright’s first airplane was built on an idea and hope, but no data. Modern jets are 100% data. Once my wife and I had worked through the first two responses, our tears dried, we read the writings of Tall Allen and pushed my oncologist to create a jet. I had full pelvis, radiation, when it had not been accepted how many oncologists, I am now cancer free, as one can be with this diagnosis. I am a physician, but still a human. I had to work through the first two responses, before grabbing the data and moving on. Tall Allen was my guide, and I will thank him forever.
The Wright brothers progress was based on more than just hope. They followed the research of another pioneer and they did many experiments to improve and perfect wing design. Those experiments provided data -- what worked and what didn't work until they found a working formula. As a retired engineer who worked in Aerospace I didn't want this slight of true pioneers to go unanswered. Sorry for the diversion from the topic at hand.
In my opinion a little premature as only tested on mice. Need to see in human subjects. Only about 5% of drugs found effective in mice translate to human use
Tall Allen, how is it dangerous? Serious question, his PSA level is so low, isnt it, he wouldnt be recommended for any standard of care treatment at this point, would he?
I have done SOC treatments all the way, but with concurrance of my medical onocologist and radiation onocologist, took Fenben and Ivermectin, they had me under careful observation and they were very duboius of any good affect from these alternative treatments, but were ok with me taking them as long as I was monitored by my lab tests etc. .
So, if he experiments with these supplements, and his PSA stays low, how does it hurt anything?
If his PSA rises, then I totally agree, back on S.O.C. treatments?
Iam not trying to be difficult, just honestly wondering, if his PSA is low, or someone else's PSA is low, is it bad to try supplements, as long as being prepared to immediately go back to Standard of Care treatments if PSA rises?
Thank you, really respect your knowledge and contributions.
Almost any drug is “dangerous” if used without knowledge. That’s why they are regulated.
Human biology is incomprehensibly complex and using DIY chemo drugs is risky because no one knows what they will do to the whole system. It’s not as simple as “it can’t hurt and if it doesn’t work, I go back to SOC”. What if they damage your health to the point that SOC therapies won’t work anymore?
100% agreed. People only think outside the box when nothing else works. I am waiting for my ivermectin to arrive. The standard care never cures cancer because it doesn’t kill the stem cells so re occurrence often happens. When I was diagnosed with 4+4 T3bN1M this June my doctor said there is no cure but you can manage it. Me & my wife refuse to believe it and looked into everything possible. There are plenty people have long term remission. Why can not be you and me? So just do what you think is right for yourself. Are you taking something to clean your liver like milk thistle?
I have just started the Fenbendazole, so haven’t had my PSA test results yet. Due in mid December. I am like you, why not try a drug that is well known and used safely for decades (Ivermectin). It has shown cancer reducing effects. Same with Fenbendazole. (See my post above showing actual research). Maybe these two don’t work on everyone, but why not me? Ivermectin saved a lot of people from Covid deaths, but was slandered by the SOC medical establishment, who were killing people with Remdesivir and intubation in the hospitals. Lots of posts on this site show SOC treatments affect people differently. I am aiming for long term management. I don’t believe in a cure, now that I have recurrence after a RP 7 years ago . So I’m open to trying a treatment like Fenbendazole. It is Fearmongering by saying it is “dangerous” when no studies have shown that.
I’m not replacing certain standard treatments, but supplementing with these 2 non SOC medications. If I can avoid - or delay- the use of ADT, with the long term detrimental effects it brings, then it’s worth it. I want some QOL, and taking Ivermectin and Fenbendazole is an experiment to see if they can postpone, reduce, or even eliminate my need for long term ADT treatment. If they don’t have any effect, then I’ve lost nothing. These medications, just like any ADT drug, affect each person differently.
But delaying ADT can allow the cancer to grow and spread. And I think it is inevitable that you will eventually need ADT to slow that. So yes, you have postponed resistance, but then you will be starting with a large cancer load to suppress, and its discomforts.
And my own experience is that ADT causes no loss of QOL, and I have mets for delaying it. Surely the loss of QOL from the mets will be greater than that from ADT. Because I feel just fine after almost a year on Orgovyx and Abiraterone + Prednisone.
There's always a risk involved with any drug. Even aspirin. Combining drugs, effectively creates a different drug and as a result a different risk. I haven't seen anything to suggest that this is a high or even medium risk. Maybe there's evidence I haven't read though.
Personally if I thought it would give some benefit, I'd try it. But what I would also say is be careful with 'research' papers.
A lot of papers are incredibly misleading. Usually, these type of papers are mouse models, cell lines in a dish, questionnaires, meta analysis of multiple studies of poor underlying data. All kinds of traps IMO.
What you have to understand is the human body is EXTREMELY complicated and remarkable. Chemical feedback loops, epigenitics, charged elements, enzymes, different immune responses, te pressure dependent, ph dependent amd much more.
All of those things will be different depending on where they are in the body! It's truly incredible.
Should you try these drugs? IMO, if you're confident you've researched all you can and are happy with the risks, why not? Just bear in mind that if this was the answer, we'd all be using it. Lots have tried it.
As I understand it fenbendazole and ivermectin are veterinary anti-parasitic (de-worming) drugs that work by interfering with the parasites' digestive systems. Also, having been found with little or no significant adverse side effects in humans. Anyone with specific knowledge that contradicts my understandings, please correct me.
Not a lot of downside (some, but not a lot) if one does not forego known-effective treatment(s) and makes sure to avoid drug interactions.
There are anecdotal reports of remarkable good outcomes. But, remember, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Also remember, all statistics are made up of anecdotes (with the caveat that statistics are controlled to prevent bias). Removing bias from anecdotes is a hard ask, though. So, clinical trials are carefully designed and executed.
I happen to be using an "unproven" (meaning it is not FDA-approved) treatment for my extremely aggressive prostate cancer which has successfully out-performed the Orgovyx I was using before. Brought my PSA down to 0.014 ng/ml. But I am having frequent testing of my bodily functions stay on top of any adverse effects that might come up.
So far, several Orgovyx adverse effects have been mitigated and only two effects (neither affecting health, one is cosmetic and the other transient).
One takes one's life in one's hands when one takes off-label approaches. But then, one takes one's life in one's hands when one chooses on-label approaches, too. One evaluates the risks and goes forward.
Lovinlife53, I am looking forward to your reported PSA and any reports of side effects.
Are you taking these orally, by injection or what?
By the way, I know that TallAllen is quite knowledgeable and highly respected in the medical field. His demeanor may be a bit too gruff for comfort but his wisdom is incontrovertible. TallAllen knows what he is talking about.
I have no issues with TA, other than his claim to knowledge when he is not a trained professional, nor familiar with non SOC approaches, like Ivermectin and Fenbendazole. I have nothing to lose as my PC has recurred. There has been some promising results with both medications, but it may do nothing for me in the end. So what. I will try whatever comes with research, even if it is not yet SOC. TA speaks from an ivory tower with confidence, but he is not facing death, and bears no liability for his "advice". Remember, everything today in SOC treatments might be abandoned - or adjusted - with tomorrow's new medical discoveries. This happens all the time. Electric shock treatments were standard in Psychology in the 1970's. My brother lost his memory in the 1970's because shock treatments were SOC at the time. They are now abandoned as barbaric. Surgeries were conducted without antiseptics, until the microscope made germs visible. My niece suffered permanent brain damage when a spinal tumor was treated 40 years ago with too much chemo and radiation. That was SOC at the time. Now, these two treatment dosages are greatly reduced with new medications. I am not willing to listen to TA's sarcasm about non SOC approaches, and his unwillingness to even consider the research being done on safe medications like Ivermectin and Fenbendazole. Only time will tell if I am right or wrong.
The studies I have seen show taking the Fenbendazole 1g 3 times a week, or one study showed 1g 7 days a week. I definitely think it will help taking both but maybe more frequently
Good for you for stepping out of the box of 'Standard Methods' that T_A is so very much in love with. Oncologists never seem to talk up their success rate either, using these dictated and clinically trialled methods! Must be a miserable job.
Besides T_A is being quite the pedant here by splitting straws and using the term 'clinical trials' to gaslight you into Fear with the use of 'dangerous" language. Tch Tch how unsupportive. However there is a plethora of 'pre-clinical' studies. T_A also appears to be not up to speed on the 20+ years of observation and research that has clearly shown the anti-cancer effects of Ivm. Yet Oncologists and most MDs are quite ignorant of this corpus of knowledge. Follow the money and we can all see why these pennies per pound compounds weren't clinically trialled. But that has now changed. My doctor once told me that 'to beat cancer you have to be two steps ahead of your Oncologist'.
There is nothing dangerous in what you are doing as both drugs have a famously long history of use and are very well tolerated by people and animals alike (just read the papers!) The mechanism of action is also well understood. The precautionary principle holds true here so attention needs to be paid to what you do and how you do it.
Once you start looking you will find plenty of research and peer-reviewed info that supports your self-directed health care. I can recommend a Substack writer with the unlikely nom-de-plume "The Second Smartest Guy in the World". There you will find a series of articles on both Ivm and Fenben, both anecdotal testimony of curees PLUS a swag (about 20) of scholarly research abstracts &/or takeaways in the articles. There you will also find a version of the Tippens Protocol (TP) using both Ivm and Fenben with all the necessary links to pull together the goods. Worth a look because it will enrich your program.
The difficulty in stepping out of the box is once you start, how do you monitor the progress and for how long should you run the treatment plan. Expect months, not weeks and that can be expensive and monitoring can be expensive too but if you have the money you have nothing to lose. But do try and cut out as much carbs (esp refined carbs). Cancer loves sugar and this alone can undermine all your efforts! Fasting/autophagy has its place in your treatment plan as you can starve cancer.
All the best and keep a diary. Well done for being courageous too. Cheers B
Frankly, I don't care what drugs or substances you take to fight your prostate cancer. I wish you the best of luck with them. I would, however, ask what medical qualifications you possess so that we may assess what credibility to give your claims. Most of all though, may I suggest that your carry out your testing quietly, and only come on here once you are able to provide positive results? A lot of those with cancer are vulnerable and therefore susceptible to any suggestion of one substance or another that might help to keep them alive, but which could ultimately end in tears, or damage to their body.
i have horses and I give them Iver for parasites , worms.. it is for animals. if there is a positive outcome of your trial, I will be more than happy to read about it. Until then I will stick to Abiand predni.
I've used fenben for almost 5 years, ivermectin for over 4. I've posted about that usage on here quite a few times. I was on ADT for 15 months prior to starting fenben, and later ivermectin, and am still on ADT. I did Provenge in September, and starting radiation next week.
My scans have been very encouraging the last year. I haven't drawn any firm conclusions about the efficacy of fenben and iver, but I haven't seen any harm whatever, or that they interfered with standard treatment.
So here is my take from actual use of fenben. 2 years after my RALP, I had a reoccurrence. Went up to 3.2, had scan at UMichigan as part of a trial that led to approval, which in my case showed nothing. Not unexpected. I read Joe Tippens stuff and thought what the heck, no real downside. PSA immediately started lowering and went to 2.5. There was no Ivermectin at the time, even though the discoverer was awarded the Nobel Prize in Medicine for that discovery. So in my own study, N=1, it was working. I talked to my Uro, who was a good friend of mine personally (we even had a business together for several years), and he saw no harm in the use, and even explained that when he was in med school, the cancer drugs we just antiparasitic drugs. Again, millions take these drugs, so the DANGER is not there. And now with Ivermectin, it is given to babies even.
Accidentally hit the wrong button. I then decided to look at SRT. I talked to a MO at Northwestern (I am alum of the law school so trust is built in) and told her what I was doing and asked her opinion. She said, yes, I could continue to take the fenben, but she mentioned how cancer is smart, and may find a way around that (which is why we pulse some of these things), and with the chance of a real CURE, with SRT, and very little downside, she did not see why I would not do that. I decided to do the SRT. Please note that she, who is now at Harvard practicing, did not attack me like TA attacked you for looking at things differently. She was reasoned, and with my Onc ok with it, and her realization that these drugs do work for some, she just thought there was a better alternative. I am glad she was a reasoned professional and had my best interest at heart and not a goal to prove how smart she was, and why would I, a mere mortal, question her opinion. If you really want to keep up with Ivermectin & Fenben actual studies and uses, you should look into Dr William Makis, MD. Lots of good info there. I wish you well.
...And now it begins. ...And it doesn't look like its going to be beneficial to anyone battling prostate cancer. All of us with cancer seek a miracle cure to make it go away. TA survived this scourge himself and has devoted countless hours and years to share current scientific knowledge with others. At the moment, clinical studies are all we have. They tend to point in the direction of a cure, but the cure is beyond our current human knowledge. Belief in alternatives provides peace of mind until the day they don't. We come here to support each other, not to argue. None of us has the answers. Preserve the brotherhood of this group. PCa's Pandora's box is opened to us, its evils released. Let's keep the one thing that didn't escape. Let's keep the hope guided by scientific research alive.
I've been taking it for 2 years 4 days a month and Fenben 4 days a month . My CEA tumor markers went from 3.14 to .06 almost undetectable. Since my Prostate Cancer is Androgen dependent , Its does nothing to lower PSA. So, Id say t shows promise with other Cancers, but not PC.
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