I have been on a low carb diet since my diagnosis back in March of 2023 . Eligard and Erleada have got my PSA down from 195 down to 0.01. I have been watching a lot of YouTube video's touting the health benefits of a carnivore diet. So far the only prostate diet person posting video's on YouTube that I am familiar with is Guy Tannenbaum but he is basically a vegan . So has anyone tried a Carnivore diet yet?
Anyone out there try the carnivore diet. - Advanced Prostate...
Anyone out there try the carnivore diet.
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Bigmaristuff
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The most important part of being on a low-carb diet or going all the way to carnivore and/or Keto - is exercise! Lots of it! Both aerobic and resistance. Weight lifting if you can do it safely. And try isometrics too. (I'm on a low-carb diet and I eat red meat.)
That is sound advice.
Guy Tannenbaum has introduced red meat to his diet several months ago. I alternate between keto, carnivore and some time I do vegan during the summer time. I stay away from processed food pretty much all the time however.
I have not been able to see any impact from those diets when it comes to prostate cancer. None of these improved my psa.
But I find that they do improve my overall health and that is important too.
I read your profile and it seems like you have been struggling with PSA reduction. Looks like you tried the whole 9 yards. Prolonged fasting, ketogenic diet etc. At some point you mention 0.01 PSA. To what do you attribute that number? The introduction of Lupron or lifestyle ?Have you ever gone full carnivore for any length of time?
My lifestyle brought me health but the only thing that has had any impact on my psa so far is ADT. The longest I went full carnivore must be around 10 days. I felt fine but missed the vegetables
Good point, Same here best overall health, When I fast it does lower my psa , but now on adt so #'s are dropping anyway, blood work next month. I just don't know if a single food type diet is healthy over time. studies say Choline found in meat and egg yolks bad for us with PC ? True or False ? I get confused .
Glad fasting lowers your psa but mine tends to go on an upward trend. Even after a 18-days water only fast, my psa kept increasing. But that long fast made me feel at least 10 years younger. On the flip side, ADT did bring my psa down but that made me feel 30 years older. Health and psa do not necessarily go hand in hand.
With regards to Choline, I've heard good, bad and in-between so I will not hazard a guess on that one. I eat between 2 and 4 eggs a day pretty much every day. Is it harmful to me, I hope not but I do not know.
Only egg yolks have the Choline, egg white are ok, I eat hard boiled egg whites and avacado every morning. My psa drop from fasting the last time was temporary. Does ADT wear you down the longer your on it ? I'm taking Orgovyx and Nubeqa, so far 3 months in only a few mild hot flashes , had pain in both knees for about 2 weeks then vanished. Joint pain listed as SE. staying alive means feeling 10 yrs older all the time , I can accept it .
I believe any benefit from extreme diets are from weight loss You can lose weight on carnivore by feeling full and snacking less because who wants to snack on meat and so on. Its a pain. So you lose weight and this can turn around health markers.
But it may also screw up your lipid profile over longer term.
eat healthy and exercise a lot. Med diet has more science behind it.
I am Italian and live in Italy so the Mediterranean diet is normal for me. Since I quit eating pasta ,pizza and gelato I have lost weight but am very curious about the carnivore diet after watching video's by people like Dr Chaffey ,Sally Norton , Dr Berry etc. They make a strong argument. Since I an Gleason 9, Stage 4, I would like to prove the experts wrong but that would require out of the box thinking. That's why I am considering carnivore.
You're Italian, Live in Italy and you don't eat pasta, pizza or gelato. Well, I have a one room condo for sale (not free*) in Empty Jug Wyoming that you may be interested in.
*You toucha my space, I breaka you face....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n
Perhaps my English isn't the best but your message seems cryptic.
In other words, what the F are you talking about.
Never mind. Don't bother explaining.
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
Mario
Hello Mario,
Well I'm guilty cause, if humor needs explaining then it's not humorous. Good idea to treat me the way my wife does by just ignoring me. BTW the upper case F, did you mean the word Fuck?
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n
I checked your profile and I see that you are 85 years old. Hang in there mate and God bless you. And by all means keep your sense of humor.🤡👍
Thank you sir, that was two years ago....... now I'm 83....
For me, humor is like eating my favorite dessert...
Stay well and thanks for reminding me to update my bio....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n
As I understand it, cancer cells have two major requirements to grow and metabolise, carbohydrate and glutamine.
Take these two away and the cancer cells will wither and die.
Carbs are not too difficult as a keto diet will accomplish this, but glutamine is one of the most common amino acids and essential for healthy normal cells.
Exercise however is the most effective way of reducing glutamine as muscles rapidly use it up and this is possibly the reason exercise is so essential to combatting prostate (and other) cancers.
After exercising I just drink water and avoid all the energy supplement drinks which aim to quickly replace lost energy, and normally include large doses of carbohydrate and glutamine.
I understand a lot of research is aimed at targetting glutamine to combat cancer, but whether my paltry efforts have any effect I don't know, but I like to think that I am doing something to slow the progression, it makes me feel better.
Good luck
Yes, based on the metabolic theory of cancer ( Dr Thomas Seyfried) glutamine is a problem but in a recent interview between Dr Ken Berry and Dr David Harper the subject of the effect of β-hydroxybutyrate on a cellular level was discussed. Harper called it a super molecule capable of upregulating AMPK ,reducing inflammation, activating CD8 cells, down regulating MTOR and upregulating HDAC inhibition. So ,in a perfect world there might be some way of stopping glutamine from feeding the cancer there appears to be other benefits from being in ketosis. We can only hope that Dr Harper is correct.
Check out the guy posting YouTube videos "My prostate is trying to kill me". He has been on a carnivore diet for many months and it has worked great for him. He says he has lost 60+ pounds (ADT ballooned him to 300) and just feels great.
Will do. Thanks for the tip.
Guy's story is uplifting and inspiring. From what I read the problem with meat and egg yolks is their choline content which is said to be bad for PCa. But Choline is essential for our bodies if I understand it right. So where do you draw the line , I would think a single diet of meat may not be good,I have a very limited portioned amount a few times a month. Guy was also eating lean chicken breast and some salmon, sardines along with tons of veggies I think. So many viewpoints out there it's a not easy.retrieval to digest Monitoring blood glocuse and ketones levels - metabolic state is essential to any plan- Dr Thomas Sethfried. That seems to be best approach For me I need some carbs for energy . exercise and burn them off - no glucose storage . So one would need to eat with a knife, fork, spoon and a MoJo blood g/k meter all the time always thinking #'s . Let's face it food a good tasting meal .......
I think that Guy's story is what got me to investigate the idea of an ideal prostate cancer diet in the first place. He is certainly an inspiration. I was unaware of the choline relationship to PC. That seems to be very important . Almost a deal breaker when it comes to a carnivore diet. I must look into that.
I do not know if you are aware but after 5 years of being "cancer free", Guy has had a recurrence in the last few months. I think his PSA is still below 1.0 but it was rising for a few months though it has lowered in May 2024 which is the first lower PSA since it began rising maybe 6 months ago. He said that if he can lower it further in his two next monthly test, he will explain what he has modified in his approach.
He is also investigating the SARS Cov 2 AB (IGG) SPIKE, SEMI QN angle because after someone told him about "turbo cancer" possibly linked to the spike protein from the injections that might be draining his immune system. I do not know if there is truly a co-relation or not but his test results were >150.00 H for that test and highlighted in red because it is way above the reference range of < 1.00 index.
I hope that he pulls another "miracle" once more as he is inspirational. The one thing I never understood about his case is that for about 5 years he has kept his PSA at <0.01 despite still having a prostate
Ok, he had an orchidectomy which is the equivalent of taking Lupron but he still had functioning adrenal glands and had testosterone levels between 6 and 10 ng/dl and he was not on testosterone receptor blockers either.
To my eyes, since he still had a prostate, it would not have been abnormal to have a PSA between between 0.5 and 2.0 depending on its size for example. But why his PSA was undetectable at <0.01 for so long remains a mystery to me.
He also had a recent scan showed areas of concern, He did a 40 day fast followed by intermitent fasting but I think he may have a unique body chem that lended to his success he claims you need to do atleast 21 to 40 days to get results. He constantly maintained blood glucose levels at 50 to60. I just dropped out of my fast at day 10. To much weight loss and weakness. Will regain and try again. When Guy did that fast he had a lot of body fat stored up. I don't anymore. I may settle with intermitent fasting and or 5 to 10 day fasts. I don't want muscle loss to set in.
10 days is still a good stretch. With regards to Guy, I like him a lot but he plays a little loosely with his definition of days fasting.
I remember early on when he began documenting in video his journey through cancer, he mentioned having completed a 21 day fast but having seen his daily videos one after the other, I was able to notice that what he was doing is like a true water-only fast for about 8 or 9 days and then for a day or two he would eat things like broccoli and garlic and then he would go back to water fasting. He said he was doing that so as not to miss any important minerals and such.
More recently, on his video from May 1, he said he did a fast from April 12 to April 29 (with 4 days of dry fasting and the rest water fasting) and that on April 30 he drank the broth from boiled veggies.
On his May 2 video he stated that he was tired because he had been fasting for 22 days though there are only 20 days between April 12 and May 2.
On his May 7 video he said that he was been fasting for a month even though April 12 to May 7 is not quite a month and then he says "a few days ago I started eating normally progressively over the course of 3 days". A little later in the video he says "Yesterday I began to fast again and will try to last until May 16but if I get too hungry, I will do the Fast mimicking diet (from Valter Longo).
In short, by May 7 he had already broken his fast by eating normally over 3 days. So on the video from May 21 he says that he's fasted for 40 days when there are only 14 days at best between May 7 and May 21. And in that same video, Guy says he cheated twice during those 40 days Then says he's cheated 3 times during this latest fast and he says it is because he did not want to risk Sarcopenia and lose muscles. But a minute later he says that "...roughly every 15 days I eat a little like a chicken leg and today I ate 3 sausages.
Again, I greatly value Guy and his efforts but when he talks about how long he is fasting, it should be taken loosely. By my estimate, the longest real fast he's done was probably 9 days or so. I trule do not thinkthat Guy is voluntarily dishonest when he talks about fasting. I think it is just due to old age and confusion. He is still a model of perseverance.
I am confused as to the logic of prolonged fasting to induce autophagy or even trigger apoptosis. There are several papers that claim that Autophagy increases proliferation
"One of the primary effects of autophagy is promoting the proliferation and survival rate of prostate cancer cells. This is multifaceted and a result of interaction with various molecular pathways.
" So, why do prostate cancer patients fast? Are there any studies promoting fasting for PC patients.
I did not know that Guy had a relapse. My heart is saddened by the news.
Wikipedia defines Turbo cancer as an anti- vaccine conspiracy theory but as time passes there are more and more stories about vaccine injured people . I drank the kool aid and did three injections. I hope the theory is unfounded.
I just watched a video of Guy's and he is considering chemo . You raise a good point about his very low PSA in spite of the fact he was not on testosterone receptor blockers. I know he takes a ton of supplements. Then last year he participated in that research project with Eric Berg and started taking even more supplements. Who knows. Maybe he accidently stumbled on some magical coctail of supplements. Why don't you write him and and ask him why his PSA was so low.
Is eating Panda meat considered a carnivorian diet? (oh yea I forgot to ask about Koala Bears).
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n
I do a carnivoreish diet. Because cancer feeds on glucose and glutamine and not ketones, a mixture of fasting and carnivore make a ketogenic diet easy. (Look up Thomas Seyfried) Berberine is great for blocking both, glucose and glutamine. According to Dr. Edward Friedman, it is important to use Aromatase inhibitors (quercetin) and ER alpha blockers (DIM or Tamoxifen or Anastrozole)as prostate cancer feeds on estrogen (not Testosterone) however Testosterone produces more estrogen. That is why some use Lupron type drugs. But then you have to deal with the side effects. Will attach pics of the books that support this.
I am familiar with Dr Seyfried and his metabolic theory of cancer. The idea that estrogen feeds PC is new to me but any links or pics of the books would be very welcome. In the meantime I will surely Google Dr. Edward Friedman.
I don't think that estrogen feeds prostate cancer: healthunlocked.com/advanced...
facebook.com/share/p/id7geG...
I clicked your link and this is what it said: This content isn't available right now
When this happens, it's usually because the owner only shared it with a small group of people, changed who can see it or it's been deleted.
You will learn much more about
this model later, but let’s look at just one aspect of it to cast new light on the
relationship between testosterone and prostate cancer. Let’s assume that a
hormone receptor known as estrogen receptor-alpha is the villain with regard
to prostate cancer
20 and not testosterone, then see how this helps us gain some
new insight. Estrogen receptor-alpha (ER-alpha) is known to decrease the rate of
cell death for prostate cancer.
21
In other words, ER-alpha makes prostate cancer
worse. Keep in mind that testosterone can be converted into estrogen in the
body, which can then bind to ER-alpha. When lots of ER-alpha is present, then
higher levels of testosterone would be expected to result in greater levels of ERalpha activity, a very bad thing. High-enough levels of ER-alpha should be able
to promote cancer cell growth even in the presence of castrate levels of
testosterone. (“Castrate level” is the level typically achieved when men are
physically castrated. There is still a small amount of testosterone being produced
by the adrenal glands. Historically, a serum testosterone level of below 50 ng/dL
was considered castrate level.)
Modern studies have shown that although normal prostate
Modern studies have shown that although normal prostate epithelial cells (the
cells that eventually develop into prostate cancer) have almost no detectable ERalpha,
22
the percentage of cells with this potentially harmful receptor keeps
increasing as the prostate cancer evolves, until 94 percent of CRPC has readily
detectable ER-alpha activity.
23 Keeping this in mind, let’s reexamine the results
of the classic Fowler and Whitmore study in more detail. It turns out that 13
percent of the men actually had some relief of their symptoms within thirty days
of receiving testosterone.
24
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Hmm… This post may get me banned from this great forum, FOREVER!!
