Alright, before we get into the great 'diet debate,' let's all agree—whether you're vegan, vegetarian, or eat a 'balanced' diet (whatever that means), we all know that none of us are immune to a diagnosis of prostate cancer.
Now, onto my real issue: ADT. In just six months, I've gained over 8 kg (18 lbs), and it's all hanging out right in the middle. My belly now resembles a soft, squishy blob that exercise just can't seem to touch.
I hate it! My shirts are clinging to me for dear life, my pants are crying for mercy, and some of them have given up altogether—splitting from top to bottom in protest. It’s not a great look.
So, here's my master plan: I’m thinking about going on the Carnivore diet for three weeks.
I know, I know—cue the gasps. But I tried it many years ago, and I remember how fast it melted the fat away. Of course, I’ve also heard the horror stories—some people believe eating meat will awaken dormant PC cells like a protein-fueled monster ready to wreak havoc. Others call that theory nonsense.
So, am I playing with fire by going carnivore for three weeks, just to ditch the belly fat? Has anyone else done it without setting off the PC alarm?
Your thoughts please. And thanks for all replies.
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Mike58
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thats an interesting discussion however it would be impossible to split whether the slowing of doubling time was due to the significant weight loss of the low carb group. If you lose 20lbs from a typical western body frame almost EVERYTHING gets better. If keto gets that, fine, if 5-2 gets that, fine, if calorie counting and exercise gets that - also fine. Maybe. It isnt proved by any means that keto slows tumor growth. For that you would need three groups: one on keto one on calorie control and exercise, and the third on placebo.
So far nobody has proven that a ketogenic diet will fight prostate cancer. I did it for six months and lost 30 pounds without starving and calorie counting. You can go to a restaurant, eat a steak with vegetables and drink wine. That's keto. But when you stop and eat ice cream or chocolate, drink beer and soft drinks, your weight increases again.
I ate a strictly vegetarian diet for almost 30 years. Then at 50 y/o I was Dxed with advanced prostate cancer, gleason 9 and spread. After two brutal years of treatments I was just skin and bones, so I decided to start eating everything againg (meat, fish, etc).
I now exercise almost every day and eat a lot of meat in my diet. Is this bad for my cancer - who knows, I myself doubt it.
Thanks Mike1971. I must say you would have one of the most comprehensive Bio's I've read. You seem to have met this challenge head on even with all its ups and downs. Good for you. I do like meat and may give the carnivore diet a go for a few weeks and see what happens. If I cant making inroads to the belly fat then I'll stop. - All the best to you!!
You will lose weight just getting off the carbs. I did a pretty strict keto for 4 months and lost 45lbs and was down to 140lbs and losing a pound a day and couldn’t put weight on. Started getting cramps even though i was keeping up with electrolytes. I will also say i was never hungry and only ate two meals a day with the 18hr fasting. I also had so much energy.
I should go back on it for a couple of months to lose some weight and get my energy back.
I keep hearing that the Keto diet is not as severe as the Carnivore diet and might be better for not aggravating the PC and so maybe I'll give this a shot. It certainly worked well for you. Thanks for your reply
Your welcome. Just a word of caution is there are a lot of fake “Keto” products out there. It’s important to study this diet and understand how to measure your ketones and glucose.
I want to second the part of fake "Keto" products. I would not recommend ingesting any such products. They may call themselves "Keto" because their carb levels are low but anything that comes in a box such as "Keto snacks" is just about always processed foods with extra ingredients.
Healthy Keto is done by eating real food, not things like cold cuts, bacon, or keto snacks. I stick to grass fed/grass finished red meat, eggs from free-range chickens, vegetables and berries.
I actually lost 10 pounds when I went on ADT. I was afraid of gaining weight and used the My Fitness Pal app to count calories. I tried to keep my total to 1600 to 1700 a day. But even though I lost weight it seems like all the fat cells in my body have decided to migrate to my waist so I now have a huge spare tire too
I was DXed in July - always ate a full diet, anandalways cooked from scratch with v few processed foods… no junk food.. fair bit of meat, lots of butter & eggs. Loved it but was a little overweight. Did an average amount of exercise, but have a sedentary job. When i was DXed, after a lot of reading around I decided to go full vegan - whole food, organic, nothing processed. I also upped my exercise regime a lot and do intermittent fasting, eating between noon and 8pm. I’ve lost 16 kilos (2 and a half stone) in 3 months and feel great - I never thought I’d say this but I love the vegan diet I’m on - it feels very nourishing and my body seems to want to eat that. I don’t miss my previous diet - never thought I’d say that!! I also feel the fasting helps a lot with energy & alertness levels. The diet is supposed to keep inflammation levels down, which in turn seems to be keeping side effects down. I honestly feel really good on it. PSA went down v fast in the first month when I was just on degarelix (Firmagon)… from 530 to 0.88. I don’t know if the diet and exercise has helped that, but I think it probably has.
That’s my two pennies worth - I think everyone had their own route and has to trust their gut, whatever it’s saying. I heard somewhere that changing from what you were doing is a big part of getting in cancer’s way - it may be vegan… and it could be carnivore too perhaps?
Thanks Broccoli24. That was indeed an interesting answer. I'm not sure I could go Vegan but you certainly have made the best of it. Well done.
I reckon there are two separate things when it comes to PC and diets. One is a diet that might prevent PC and the other is a diet that won't aggravate existing PC.
I'm not even sure that any diet in any case makes a difference to the actual PC but it may well add a benefit to other aspects of our health.
Yeah… I’m not really clear on exactly what works, or not, or how… but a friend of mine with a hard to treat cancer went vegan, took some herbal remedies from a naturopath… didn’t take conventional treatment (because they said none would be particularly effective), and he’s been cancer free for over 10 years. He doesn’t know if it was the diet/ infra-red sleeping bag (which he used daily)/ exercise/ naturopath’s remedy, combo of all… or it just went of it’s own accord… but seeing him come through it made it easier for me to think following what he did is worth a punt. The idea being to starve cancer out of the system. Cutting out everything you possibly can that it uses to feed itself. Sugar being the first thing. I’ve found it surprisingly easy. The only tough bit is going out to eat… there are vegan places/dishes… but so many have sugar in, or something else. But if it keeps this thing at bay just a bit longer, for me… the hassle is worth it. We all make our own assessment of what’s important with QoL.
For me, intermittent fasting (16/8) was the only thing that put a dent on the ADT 'tire'. Ate what I wanted but limited to 8 hour window. When I did watch the diet coupled with Int Fasting, I saw better results. My lifestyle can be periodically strenuous (tree felling/splitting, landscaping). I recently bought a RowErg and got a bit more finite about cardio condition, and returned to suspension training (TRX is one form). Strength doesn't come back as fast as it did when I rowed in college, but I can see solid improvement with heart rate training vs intensity. The engine is still there. The cliff you slide down from inactivity is much steeper when on ADT, and as we age, so a very large part of fitness now is psychological.
Firstly, have to tried intermittent fasting? Maybe you could keep your curren t diet and just reduce your eating window... maybe. Start off slow and gradually decrease your eating window.
The debate about carnivore/vegan/vegetatian/fruitarian etc seems to me to be a bit misguided IMO. I've not seen any credible evidense why carnivore diets are detrimental for PCa. People post various 'studies' but they really lack any evidense at all. You're going to see hundreds of articles which are questionnaires, meta articles etc. If you examine these in detail, you will find they're nonsense.
That doesn't mean that carnivore is 100% in the clear, just that I've seen NO evidense.
Take the vegan/vegetarian diet for example. These diets will effectely be converted to glucose. Glucose promotes cancer growth. Yet the carnivore diet doesn't create glucose. Your body will create any necessary glucose via gluconeogenesis. Does that mean that carnivore is better? Not necessarily - maybe for some, and not for others. Your body is extremely complicated.
Everyone is different. They will experience different effects/results.
My suggestion is to take a baseline of your metrics and monitor it closely. If you see something thats alarming then just change it.
What I will say is, for weight loss, you'll get an initial loss which will really be water. For the carnivore diet to yield the results, it should take more than 3 weeks. You need to become fat adapted. This will alter your gut bacteria. I recommend that this is done gradually.
Thanks MrG68. That is a great answer and makes a lot of sense. I guess only 3 weeks on a carnivore diet is a little too optimistic on my part. I'm hoping by Xmas to have lost the 8kg's I have put on and if i do i will come back online and let everyone know what has worked best for me.
If you want to lose weight, go fully plant based and time restricted eating plus some exercise. It’s the healthiest AND fastest way to get rid of some pounds/kilograms.
You had me until you said "fully plant based" - that is the hard thing to do. Carnivore dieters (is that even a word) will say the exact same thing. Maybe both are right???? Thanks for your reply
Studies have been done with PCA patients on ADT eating a restricted diet and doing supervised exercise, and most did not reduce abdominal flab. Bear in mind that being in a low T state weakens bone and muscle. You don't want to become a skinny guy with no muscles and weak bones.
For my part, I do keto and sometimes I do carnivore. I am not worried about real meat when it comes to cancer but I would shy away from processed meat and any processed food.
So much info on net, so maybe try just increasing your exercise and cut your portion size. Buddy put on 5kgs. Walked 5kms a day and weight bearing exercise daily. Now back to his “fighting” weight. He cut out booze too. Travel as much as you can. Tomorrow not guaranteed!💜
I definitely believe in the travel advice. My wife and I were bitten by the travel bug 35 years ago and since then have visited 79 countries and own a 39 foot motorhome that is garaged in Texas for our use. We clocked up 30,000 miles in the RV in 2012 when we travelled from Key West up to Alaska and back to Texas. One of the best years of our live's. Even our kids and 9 (now 11) grandkids flew out from Australia to meet us. Wonderful times.
So yes I am all in for doing Travel while you can. In fact I'm typing this sitting in a villa in Bali!!
Ha ... amazing - We were in beautiful Ubud, now in Seminyak and on friday we move to Sanur and on the 31st back to Adelaide. Hope you are having a blast. Traffic is getting worse I think, but nothing that a scooter rental can't solve. Have fun.
You’re very brave! My American buddy living here was run off road by Ambulance and left for dead near Candidasa. 30,000 USD later and a trip home to vets’ hospital confirmed repairs here were done ok. 40 years of visits here and I’ve never riden a scooter. Be safe and enjoy.💜🌈
Yeah brave or stupid. I did own a Honda Goldwing in Adelaide and so getting on these little scooters is easy and to be honest riding them in Bali is easier than riding in Adelaide. No road rage, everyone seems to look out for each other with merging etc but the biggest issue are unseen potholes etc. You still have to have your wits about you.
I did a carnivore diet (which is also ketogenic) for 3 or 4 months. Lost weight steadily and easily. No suffering from hunger. Eat healthy, no fast food, no snacking and add restricted eating time. I restricted eating to an 8hr window. Weight stayed off so far. Good luck
Yes the 8HR window I think is doable - I dont normally have breakfast and so I reckon it is even a bit easier. It is the snacks while watching TV that is the killer!!! Thanks for your reply
I know. I said 3 weeks thinking that maybe any longer and I might be causing more harm than good. But it appears from this discussion that you can do the carnivore diet for months and then throw some greens into the mix. Thanks for your reply.
Belly fat on ADT is a given unless you seriously and continuously intervene. The most enthusiastic 3 week diet (including carnivore) will have entirely temporary benefit as long as you’re on ADT. The diet ends and you’re soon right back to where you were, just as with every diet. Don’t waste your time.
Recommend more slow steady dedication and less zeal. Your metabolism was already slowing with age before the ADT-now it’s much more so, as you can see.
You can be formal about it, but there’s really no need. Just keep carbs very low, little or no refined sugar. Eat all the meat you want, the protein is important. You’ll still lose fat if you’re exercising also.
If you’re loading up on meat and not exercising…just don’t do that.
Mike everyone has their own favorite diet for losing weight. What is important to me is to understand the basics of my metabolism and take the best or as optimum as possible an action. For example I come from a family with a history of diabetes. I had pre-diabetes for almost 10 years prior to my PCa journey. The ADT made this worse and my HbA1c started going up from 5,5 to 5.8. After much research about 3.5 years ago I decided to minimize my carbohydrate intake. I increased fat and protein gradually to get some of the calories I needed from there. While initially it was mostly vegetarian food now I am eating a reasonable amount of chicken, lamb, fish and seafood. My HbA1c came down to 5.1 and I stopped gaining weight around my midriff. In fact I almost lost all of the weight around my midriff. So far I have kept a very active life style. I exercise regularly including light weights. Regular exercise including to stimulate bone growth, walking and golf (all walking in pretty hot weather).
One of the dangers of ADT is of course higher tendency to develop diabetes and exacerbating existing diabetes.
Damn ADT. Its been a life saver for a long time but its also a curse with the SE's. But things could be worse. Imagine trying to get proper PC treatment at present in Gaza or Lebanon!!!
I have posted this many times - our disease came about through many millions of transactions within our body over many years - we were designed to eat almost everything - omnivores - cutting out one food type in favour of another will have very little effect on PCa. There are ZERO gold standard studies to support claims of the effect of various food types on PCa.
Eat what you want, in moderation - enjoy your life.
I have an opinion, but this cannot be taken as advice. I know dietary intervention was effective for me 100%. By effective I mean that neither the symptoms, the tumour burden nor the PSA have progressed in over 4 months but that might be actually longer due to the testing dates. The intervention has caused all unnecessary fat around my waist to dissapear by going in a strict whole food plant based diet, not vegan, I still eat small animals from the sea sometimes. Cooked mushrooms, broccoli sprouts, fruits, nuts and tomato paste have been on my plate every day among other things. Ive also got used to no salt which is amazing. Also I do Omad. This plus the gym sessions has brought down the weight to 67kgs and very good strength and conditioning. Not that I was obese before, just soft around the edges but I was going to the gym as well although less visible results. So my weight loss was without using a carnivore diet, by just cleaning up my act really. Next I am onto carnivore now that ADT has started 3 weeks ago, but like you, I don't have all the data yet, specially when it comes to methionine, glycine and leucine which I'm aware that the beast feeds on. So I cannot comment on that point yet.
67KG's !!! Wow I was 69KG's when i got married in 1977 - now I'm 102KG's ... I'd be happy to be just into the 80's but thats gonna take a bit of work I think. Thanks for your answer, really appreciate it.
after two years of Lupron my MO (who has kept me going for 35 years post stage C rectal cancer) grabbed my pot belly and told me…”Your not going to die from prostate cancer…your going to die from a heart attack!”. That was 2 years ago. My weight never changed, I guess my muscle mass became fat. For me the answer was exercise…I started to play pickleball! I play daily, about 2 hours. Side benefit! I made a bunch of new friends!
You don't wanna know. I eat anything and everything but not much fast food at all. I love red wine and an occasional scotch and coke. So you see, I do need to seriously make a change. Going all out plant food will be tough but going carnivore with a red wine is a "can do" diet. This is my thinking at present.
I’ve been taking Metformin for almost 10 years now per Snuffy Myers. He used it to prevent metabolic syndrome in patients on ADT. He has some videos on it on YouTube. I’ve remained with a normal BMI, I also exercise daily and eat a sensible, normal diet.
I only stayed on hormone therapy for 6 months. The doctor wanted me on it for 12-18 months, but when you stay on that, it has a lot more problems besides weight gain, so do your research. it is only for prevention; that's what the doctor said.
I don't suggest a carnivore diet at all.
I am more into holistic, so limit your meat and organic only
I take
pectasol daily 15 g empty stomach
curcumin 3g +
saffron 60 mil empty stomach
work out daily with weight resistance training because of muscle loss.
I had gained 10 lbs and hated it !!!! But I have lost 8 lbs in a year.
Hmmmmm giving up meat will be hard, but I'm going to relook at all the suggestions made thus far and make some hopefully sensible decisions. thanks for your reply
Read this whole post. Some interesting insights but I could not help but think ….
In the time it took I could have done my morning exercises. So I suggest that the key is DOING not reading or talking about it. Nothing happens without action.
Mike it is not just action. It must be sustained and constant over time. I have been working on it for the last 15 months, seven days a week for 2 to 3 hours per day.
At 80 I have NOT lost much weight but have lost inches and I am rock hard. I can now see the top of the six packs.
To really get a sculptured body in the 15% body fat range the key is diet. That is not my goal so I eat what I normally ate. I just eat much less of it.
Told my wife that this cancer thing is the best thing to happened to me. If I can hold it off I may live a great life to 90.
After almost 9 months on ADT, I, too, am suffering from the “jelly roll.” Mine is self inflicted—as my testosterone has diminished so has my resistance to chocolate cake and ice cream. When I get serious about losing weight I simply go back to basics: eliminate ALL processed carbs (not easy), keep sugar intake to a minimum (not even barbecue sauce or sweet Thai food, etc) and try to keep the caloric ratio of protein to complex carbs above 1.5. It’s not easy but you will lose weight. BTW, look for protein that hasn’t been fed hormones. I think hormones in our food supply is the biggest culprit for some of the health woes we experience. Good luck!
I agree with you sir. I also have the same sweet tooth as you. The hormones fed into our food supply concern me. I've tried to knock dairy and chicken on the head in particular. Everyone of us does something different diet wise. This is a good debate.
Do mine eyes deceive me?!?!? Did someone say "Carnivore diet"? *gassssp*
Going Carnivore is the best thing you can do. (as you know...) The weight will drop off rapidly as long as you keep the fat intake low to begin with.
Make sure you have meat ready to eat for when the cravings come for you. And don't forget the salt (not table salt).
It really is strange that people think the original human diet can lead to heart disease and cancer. Complete nonsense. The human body is a fat-burning machine, not sugar/carbs; and needs animal protein not inferior plant protein.
But why stop at 3 weeks when you can stay on it and avoid 99.99% of all diseases?
Wow, that is a pretty bold entry. But I like it! - I have noted that some have suggested that the Keto diet (very low carb diet) will also shed the kilo's and it will still give you some of that fibre that your gut needs .... hey but maybe a combo of Carnivore and Keto - maybe 1 month of each?? Thanks for your reply.
Time for suspenders. I have quite a nice collection. You will never get pants to cover that blob and stay up. Get the ones with the clips that attach to belt loops. The ones that Clip on the the waistband are horrible the cheap and the good as well. Or if you want to be real classy and maybe have a personal tailor, get the ones that require buttons to be sewn or riveted on to all your pant. I may do that some day. There are plenty of cute guys in the 20s and 30s who wore suspenders (braces) as a fashion statement. We old fat guys can to and pretend we are doing it as a fashion statement.
Oh, that was one clothing apparel i was determined to avoid .... maybe I'm destined to look for a pair soon.... or maybe not - lets see how my new diet goes. thanks
When I was first put on hormones I gained a lot of weight. I had been a triathlete and was in good shape before that. I have struggled to maintain my weight ever since, even after getting off the hormones. I did try the carnivore diet at one time and it did work. It also worked for me to skip lunch and work out.
I was dx 12 yrs ago at age 54. At age 17, I was 135 pounds. 37 yrs later, at dx I was 150. 6 weeks after ADT I had added 15 pounds and was 165 and eventually went as high as 175. Curiously, over the last yr or so, my appetite has diminished and I am now 156. That’s the lowest I have been in 12 yrs. Meat v. Non/Meat diet has had nothing to do with my weight gain or loss. I avoided red meat, except for pork, for my first 5 yrs and have been eating more and more meat the last 7 I know a plant diet is best for us with PC but I have not been able to abide by a plant diet My advice- try and eat a plant diet and exercise A LOT
Thanks for that. Herein lies the big question. Some will swear by meat alone others will say a balance but low carb diet like Keto and then others a plant based diet only. Its an individual choice but I'm glad yours has worked out well for you. Thannks
Mike I get it….and you…lol. I was on adt for 18 months and I am a carnivore all my life…no veggies. After that I went to 215 after always weighing a lean 185 at 6ft tall. As much as I didn’t like it I wanted to follow protocol as to not have second guess my decision later on for quitting early. That was 2.5 years ago and with exercise I’m back to 180. It’s a minor setback that you can recover from.
Nice picture, I can hardly remember looking like that, if ever I even did!! I've got a bit of a task ahead of me if I am to lose 20 lbs (9KGs ) before Xmas .... but I'll give it a good go. Thanks for your reply.
I had to look up semaglutide - and now know it is a drug intended for diabetics but was discovered to help with weight loss. I think it is called something else in Australia - not sure. I have seen a lot on TV about its efficacy in weight loss. Not sure my Dr will prescribe it ,,,, the actual diet you are on sounds very much like Keto, which many say is the best. Thanks for your reply.
what the hell….try the carnivore diet…….i,too,gained 20lbs in short order after starting ADT…..I eat well under the calories supposedly required to maintain this repulsive weight but nothing affects it….it just sits around my middle like an unwelcome neighbor…..I’ve had to spend a few hundred bucks for new clothes that fit after a literal lifetime of wearing the same clothes…..grrrrr
HaHa .... Thats me!! On the upside my wife has always tried to get me to buy new clothes ( I hate clothes shopping) and now her wishes are coming true. BUT it must come to an end. Let's fight the bulge and stop the clothes shopping .... take a stand. Fight the fight.
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