I'm sure this is a beaten horse topic, but I am unable to perform my previous weight training insofar as weight and stamina.
I'm on eligard every 3 months and nightly erleada pill. Can I incorporate creatine monohydrate without effecting my PSA or exacerbating my BPH?
I'm Stage 4, Gleason 9, mets to lymph system. PSA is .010. I'm happy with that, however the loss of strength/ stamina is causing unnecessary pain in my body?
Any info would be great.. Thank you.
Respectfully..
I also had muscle lost and i connected to nutritions from MO office. Also start protein shake 2 times in day. Morning and before sleeping that's ad 51 gram protein from shake. Also get some protein from lunch and dinner as well. I also have appetite loss because of different treatment.
And how did adding the protein help? Which protein, bc I believe any dairy based protein is counter productive to the body
I talked to multiple nutritions and I confirmed to high protein keep healthy body
Muscle Milk Genuine Protein Shake, Vanilla Creme - Zero Sugar
Milk builds strong bones and muscle.
Save some $$$, 50 grams at once is too much:
just one thing they never write right: it’s always “per kg of ideal weight” or “per kg of lean mass”…per kg of weight in itself means nothing…you can be 100kg and have 40% fat or 5% fat and protein intake should be different!! (As also calories intake)
I have never seen "ideal weight" just current weight. In order to build muscle quickly and efficiently you need 1g per Kilo and a surplus of calories. Low calories and low protein intake are not conducive to muscle building
Yes because they want to sell proteins. Any trainer would check your weight and fat mass first. Apart from having been a personal trainer and started lifting weights in the late 80es…it’s also written on that article as well 😅 they say that quantity must be adjusted in case you are overweight, which is the standard.
My trainer with 7 national certifications agrees with me and ingest protein accordingly. she doesn't sell supplements
Good luck to her!
I suppose she knows studies like this: dexalytics.com/news/proper-....
Or the many others written by trainers at Olympic levels
I am in agreement with Maxone73 on his take about lean body weight rather than current overall weight. The same principle is applied with keto where you are to ingest 1.2 to 2g per kg of lean body weight. In its simplest terms, I remember the two keto dudes saying "Your lean body weight is how much you weighted when you were 20 years old". Of course if someone was already overweight at 20, then the analogy does not apply. 
Hate to say this but you may just have to adjust to the new normal that this disease brings. Regardless of age we all feel the loss of stamina and to do the things we did in the old days.
Welcome to the Hydra club. We didn't choose it, it chose us. I'm exercising daily 2 hrs minimum, elliptical and resistance and aerobics. In addition to creatine, also take taurine and plant-based protein drink-powder. All of this is not making me stronger, it is IMO keeping me from getting weaker. That is probably the best one can achieve with the Hydra (APCa and its treatments.)
BTW, thanks for your service.
PS many MO's miss the BMD loss issue. Get a DEXA scan. I take Calcium (1000 mg/day minimum), D3 (4000 IU/day), K2 mark 7 (100 ug/day), and Magnesium (200 mg twice/day.) I am also on Prolia due to being osteopenic prior to ADT. Good luck and manage your stress.
You will need more than Creatine to build muscle, I lost muscle until I got nutrition and supplements correct. For me personally I have not had a problem with Creatine
From my experience you don’t need to supplement and we never know, which sleeping lion we will wake up. I focus on a plant based diet with fish and lot of beans and legumes. I started with low weights and increase over time. This works - at least for me. I won’t look like Arnold Schwarzenegger, but I regained muscle mass and I’m satisfied with my condition.
Dear Mrtewills,
See the annexed very recent (18 april 2024) research .
Creatine supplementation and resistance training to preserve muscle mass and attenuate cancer progression (CREATINE-52): a protocol for a double-blind randomized controlled trial
Very positive!
bmccancer.biomedcentral.com....
Wish you the best,
Henk
Well you still don't know if it's positive as the trial has not started yet. But there will be some interim results within 24 weeks. I am very interested as I hope to solve the dilemma "creatine good for muscles but bad for bone metastasis" that some other study raised.
Creatine helps a little, effort helps more. Work harder in the gym, eat well and manage your expectations for best results.
The combination of advancing age and ADT is swimming upstream for sure, but it can be done very effectively. Get a good trainer unless you really know what you’re doing. Most older guys simply don’t work hard enough.
Old time iron pumpers saying: in order of importance what does the trick are hard workouts, rest, diet.
I remember how, after just 3-4 months of training, some kids were eager to start taking supplements. Meanwhile, there were others who relied solely on their diet and still managed to lift five times more than them 😜 the quest for a silver bullet is never ending.
You are perfectly right, plus there is one extra factor related to aging (even more with people under ADT), we must try to put on muscle without putting on too much fat (actually it's better to say save muscle, as many scientists say you cannot increase without T). Because extra weight (whether is muscle, water, fat or anything else) could compromise our joints, even worse if you have bone metastasis.
I am 79 , American and live in Greece for the past 40 years,Gleason 9, removed prostate immediately and on ADT & Bicalutamide for 2 years. Radiation initially and spot Radiation for 2 very small spots on my pelvis area. 2nd PSMA this year showed only one small spot. No organs so far. During this time I have had very little side effects. other than ZERO sex. No weight gain or loss and still lifting heavy weights. I take Protein powder & creatine and have a great diet( meat fish of all kinds. All fresh & no package items . And of course WINE.
I exercise , weights & machines, every other day am in good condition and never sit still. I am very lucky to have both an inquisitive brain and great wife and magic hands. I can fix or invent almost anything.
My psa is ,80 this month & I will start on XTANDI next month due to PSA increase from .4 to .8 in 4 months.
I have read a massive amount regarding sex systems and as for me it is all crap. Pumps, rings, drugs &, porno . It is never close to what I had. As long as you accept this your trip through this PC maze will be easier. I made the choice life or death & I have never regretted it. Fight until the end!
Love your spirit!!!
Stefanos, Yiasou Patrioti.......(where in Hellas?) - Ioannis
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n
Great attitude, and sage advice. Rock on, dude!
you guys are freaking me out here - CAN WE HAVE WHEY PROTIEN OR NOT?
You can have whey protein, just don't over do the amount. Whey taken pre workout can help sustain your workout and taken after wards helps the repair and building of muscle.
Nothing stop you from having whey, but try to use also vegetal proteins powder, especially if you need a big amount. Personally I do one scoop (15g) isolated whey (85%) in the morning basically everyday (I workout 6 days per week lately). I workout (always in the morning) then right after the workout 35g (82%) vegetal protein powder, from mixed sources, to complete them and make them as effective as animal proteins. The remaining amount of proteins I get from my diet, which is plant based (except for salmon/sardines here and there).
M73, I'm confused about the use of whey for myself. Isn't it considered dairy, like milk?
Yes but consider two things. One is that protein powders are in a way “purified”, no lactose and other sugars. And research that point their fingers toward dairy usually talk about a constant and generous amount of them in your daily diet. But if you want to be 1000% sure, use veg proteins.
Thanks. I know you are cautious, so I may reconsider about whey.
To all you naysayers, can you just answer the op’s question: Can I incorporate creatine monohydrate without affecting my PSA or exacerbating my BPH?...
The only doubt is when you have bone metastasis, but in your case go for it! Some do the old load cycle then maintenance cycle for a number of months then off for a while, then they repeat. Others prefer a lower dosage but for very long times. I am not up to date at the moment about the latest research on the most effective way of taking it.
I hate to worry so I use organic Pea protein, which is a complete protein once a day. Plus, I try to have protein at almost every meal. You need .8 g protein per kilo of weight and the body cannot absorb more than 35 g of protein at a time. My opinion after research.
Short answer:
For me, the answer is simple: I am now more woman than man, because I have no testosterone. I need to keep it that way, more for my Wife than me.
Long answer:
If I increase my testosterone, the prostate cancer will be reactivated [IE: it will grow and metastasize more (I am lucky, none in endocrine system, just bone)]. ME? Used to be Hercules (over 6', 200#), could lift my own weight overhead, bicycle 50+ miles in 2-1/2 hours. Now? An overweight Barney Fife. Muscle gone, replaced by body fat. Am advised that if I continue, with my old workouts I would encourage testosterone to come back. So, I refrain, wishing I could still do maintenance workouts. Difficult, if not impossible for me now.
I am very lucky, PSMA (Prostate-specific membrane antigen = glow in dark test where radioactive agent binds with any prostate cancer cells) = nothing glowing, nothing to see here, keeping on, moving on = just keep doing what I'm doing. Zero testosterone = no prostate cancer.
Bottom line:
Be careful. My old workouts, if I could do them, will bring back the testosterone.
Good luck and Godspeed in your Journey!
I think that you are hurting yourself with this analysis, amigo. Exercise might stimulate some T increase but not enough to worry about. What is more important, it fights cáncer and makes you feel so much better.
Yes, the increase of T with exercise is small and temporary.
Me? Delayed diagnosis due to covid... ugh... but it is what it is....
I was told 1 in 10 would have side effects.... well, I am in the ONE and I have them all in spades. One of those is that my lungs don't work like they used to. A 4-hour workout was the normal for me. I miss those days. My doctors warned that I would not be able to continue those workouts while under treatment. If you think 4-hour workouts don't raise Testosterone, I have some old labs to show differently. I used to have 600sf in the basement/terrace level for exercise. I'm down to 250sf and 5 machines [elliptical, weight station, recumbent bicycle (I held on to 6 bicycles hanging in the garage too) fit one, and crunch machine] in the hopes that one day I might get back to it.
Now, I cannot go 10 minutes on the recumbent bicycle before I run out of breath. Anemia now being monitored. If I could exercise, believe you me, I would. But I cannot. I felt obligated to post my answer to 'MRTEWILLS' because I didn't want him to think he was alone and that there may be others with worse issues.
My PSMA = nothing glowing = no cancer = keep on keeping on and I am good to go.... And if you could find a way around me losing my breath just going up a single stair, I'm ready to listen. The doctors have and I've been thru the tests and have Rx (prescription medicine) to help. We have 3 sets of stairs and I use them to 'exercise' now. I do my best. On a good day, I can do chores. On a bad day, not so much.
'"The 50-year-old body I ordered is on back-order and I hear nothing but supply chain woes, and I'm told it may be some time!"' LOL! [Yes, that line is a joke, just to be clear!]
We will all walk in our own shoes on our own paths. Good luck to you on yours!
I second this notion. I am 74 and hit the gym 3x a week for lifting and cardio. I feel better and look better. Oh, and I am told that it is important to maintain bone as well as muscle strength and lifting is the secret to that.
This disease is an ego crusher for those of us who were formerly quite active….i do group workouts now and my goal is to be able to keep up with the fit ladies in the group…..and to be able to get 20 lbs of groceries up my steep stairs without losing all my breath……the two spare tires around the middle don’t help matters either🫤
And here I thought I was the only one with two!!!
am I reading this correctly….BPH? Does this stand for something other than benign prostatic hypertrophy?
That's right. Been there and done that prior to cancer diagnosis. So can you have BPH and cancer at the same time? I guess so.
I just ordered a dozen of these:
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n
Athens Halandri. We only live once so go all out to enjoy it,
Ela tho na sou pou kati (kati) mystico. My clan is from way up north (borders with Albania) in Epirus (Ioannina) - Try a trip up there to meet "The Ali Pasha".....Much different than the south. Xronia Pola......
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n
Mines on backorder....
Mine too....... I ordered the lower section also.......
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n
LMAO....Thank you!!! John hypen...clever...
Please, an official note:
Hyphen sounds too much like a Hymen that's why I like to call them Dashes.
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n
"John Dashes" it is!
Was experiencing extreme/worsening fog brain 15 months into my 2 year abi+pred+lupron treatment until blood tests highlighted low B-12 (likely a decades long issue). Since starting 1000 mcg of OTC B-12 I feel much better energy and focus.
Same here, Started supplements Creatine and Astaxanthin ( Amazon ) Also do dumbbell lifting on critical body parts. Stretching seems to help me also. For my joint pain MSM supp seems to help . Thinking about taking Hemp protein powder again use to take it many years ago . Good energy boost . Best
After Pluvicto #6 results
Difficulty Maintaining Weight
BAT trial update
Eligard and Muscle pain
