Sorry guys, but I found this and all I can say is it scared the hell out of me. Now I don't know what to think. Maybe someone can sort it out. journals.lww.com/oncology-t...
Jeff Dunn AO, Professor and CEO of the Prostate Cancer Foundation of Australia, said the findings were significant. “This is an important discovery that will help us to better target treatments for men with different types of prostate cancer,” he said. “The findings also demonstrate the importance of ongoing research to improve our pounderstanding of how different treatments impact disease progression and spread.”
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No need for fear. Or fear mongering. I read the full, very long and even a little interesting paper in "Science Advances". We already know the "Tumour MicroEnvironment" (TME). And that bone mets are bad. And that progression is sadly one inevitable for most of us. And not much of a surprise all these things are subjects of research!
I see nothing here that is new and different or that changes anything one can do.
No, you should disregard this science. The real life in which we live is different. You should only trust clinical trials for making decisions I believe.
The article stated that the experiment was done with "all-human, microtissue-engineered model of metastatic tissue using human bone-forming cells, prostate cancer cells, and 3-D printing." And that "the interactions between the cancer cells, the bone, and the anti-androgens significantly impacted the progress of cancer in the mineralized microenvironment of bone tumors. This means that the efficacy of these therapies is compromised in the presence of the bone microenvironment.”
It seems a big leap from "compromised efficacy" with bone forming cells and 3-D printing, to the title "ADT Can Fuel Spread of Bone Tumors."
You should perform a risk-reward balance on clinical trials...not on experimental data. On rats 99% of drugs work, yet only 8-10% of those work on humans (and always worse than on rats!), just to give you an example. I would say that, with all the bad things we can say about ADT, the fact that people with advanced PCa are living longer and not shorter lives, should be enough to consider it as a proof that ADT is not the devil. And yes, everything is more complicated when there are bone metastasis, that is well known, but it does not mean that ADT contributes to spread them in a real life scenario. At least you cannot say that from that document.
I asked my MO a professor of oncology in Australia and he said that in fact all these medications are proven to extend our life. Therefore just calm down. I already answered this question on HU some time ago. I am myself actually more scared about the possibility of introduction of the neuroendocrine version of the prostate cancer in 15% of Enzalutamide users but what can we do?
I understand. That is why asked my MO, but no, the reality is that these medications extend our life. I would not worry about similar theoretical studies.
Generally speaking MaleCare on HealthUnlocked is NOT typically all about fear-mongering. There's lots of really good information that one can learn from. And there's a reason that people from around the world visit here. But once in awhile we do get fear mongering - and sensible pushback.
FYI Malecare is NOT BY Healthunlocked. Healthunlocked is just a social platform, similar to a facebook website. Malecare is a USA based national patient advocacy nonprofit organization that uses the Healthunlocked platform for some of our online support group communiities. You can learn more about how Malecare and Healthunlocked collaborate in this video: youtu.be/UcfEd2K6Sl8?si=hHW...
Because doctors never fear monger? ( get surgery by Monday or you're going to die? ) 😀 I agree with your sister, in the sense that many of the seemingly reputable organizations, websites and "patient gurus" are, at best, hit or miss, with far too many misses. IMHO Malecare has - by far - the most mature information and support prostate cancer online communities. Indeed, in just one of our communities, Advanced Prostate Cancer, we have over 20,000 members who have written over 25,000 posts . Our scale facilitates pushback and clarity that JohnintheMiddle describes.. Please invite your sister to see for herself how helpful a well run community with brilliant and caring participants can be.
I totally disagreed with what my sister said from the moment she said it. To me it indicates how the medical profession believe that only they know what is the correct path to take and patients are the 'dummies' that must be persuaded to comply.
I have learnt more from this forum and its members then I would hope to learn from a Dr in a life time.
Reading through symptoms, diagnoses, treatment plans, side effects and unfortunately the deaths of many members has been incredibly informative. Its almost like Im a (very junior) Oncologist that remembers many patient histories and consequently likely treatment plans and probable outcomes.
My initial remark was made with the intent of stimulating debate and to that end I thank you all.
@ Seasid - you mentioned that 15% of Enzalutamide users get neuroendocrine prostate cancer. Do you have a reference for that? I am about to start Enzalutamide and your statement gives me great worry. Thanks much.
Clinical trials! Love 'em! On the basis esp. of the CHAARTED and STAMPEDE clinical trials my MO decided to put me on Triplet Therapy. It's likely that my current disability-free health can be significantly attributed to this decision.
In the world of medicine, clinical trials are extremely important and are the evidential basis of our advancing scientific knowledge. Clinical trials thus drive improvements in medical decision-making based on evidence.
But while medical decision-making based on evidence derived from clinical trials is very important, this should not preclude medical decision-making based on observations, knowledge and theories which are nevertheless not yet confirmed by clinical trials.
Recall that the hypotheses related to Triplet Therapy existed prior to the trials that confirmed these hypotheses. As they say "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". So for example, based on my own reading as a lay person of various kinds of medical literature, I decided to take lycopene every day. It seems like a good bet, without any significant known risks or major side-effects under normal conditions.
Let's expand our consideration of medical decision-making a little. Consider a thousand years of Chinese and Asian history and medical knowledge as a kind of giant "clinical trial", mediated by culture, and now sometimes supported by science!
From this body of knowledge as reported in various kinds of literature, I'm thinking of adding Berberine to my regime. Berberine has been extensively researched and there are plausible scientific reasons explaining why it might work against prostate cancer. Maybe Berberine is a good bet too!
Clinical trials are great but one can still make good decisions without a clinical trial. In such case for sure there are risks and responsibilities. And a lot of grifter-driven garbage to avoid.
Berb is good, more chinese herbs said to be cytotoxic are Artemisinin, Andrographis, Scullcap, Dan Shen..... list is almost endless . Herbs from Africa and Amazon are said to be good like Pao Pereira or Puyang. Ck out Tropilabs .
Too many so-called remedies! "Said to be good" is not my way. The opportunity cost of engaging with a list that is "almost endless" as well as the risks of things that are not nearly as well-researched as berberine is very high!
If I spend all day researching rumors then that's time I'm not spending or being with my family. I try hard to distinguish between a few real opportunities for, on one hand, improving my situation and on the other falling down an unproductive even dangerous black hole. SOC + science-little-beyond-the-edge + a limited exploration of traditional remedies = a good approach.
And included in science is research on exercise, especially as related to glucose management and related to prostate cancer.
let's say...everything that does not compromise SOC and that can give you benefit (even if not directly to prostate cancer) is actionable. After all, we have many "non direct" pathways to slow down progression and increase OS, each one giving just a little added % but it's worth trying as long as it does not harm us.
It is saying that these drugs “might” not inhibit the growth in bone as well as other sites but they would have to admit that it does work in bone very well early on. The cancer is going to come back and they are just saying that these drugs “ might” make it a little more likely that recurrence is in bone. The recurrence, however, will come years later than it would have without the drugs. My suggestion is to forget the future. Live for today. We are all going to die at some point.
I'm a Granddad too. But we also are also active parents with a teenager still at home in high school. I live in the present but I'm still fighting for more future.
“We developed an all-human, microtissue-engineered model of metastatic tissue using human bone-forming cells, prostate cancer cells, and 3-D printing.”
As soon as I read something like this, I delete. It just isn’t relevant to my situation.
I think someone posted or commented on impact or jumping to help out with the bones , sounds a little risky depending on one's condition, but otherwise may be a good thing. may stick to my hula - hoop for now, lol
If you can jump a rope, do it, if you can run do it, if you can carry around weights do it. It's impact load you are looking for when it comes to bone health, because when you jump you compress and extend your bones multiple times with a high load (2 to 4 times your body weight), which is what stimulates bone growth. Those are the most effective ways (for example swimming, even if fantastic from other perspectives, does nothing to bone health). Of course you must know if it's doable for you.
I am new here and can’t get a link to post but here’s a picture from an article in the New York Post referencing a study that specifically studied men with advanced prostate cancer and the benefits of cardio which causes an increase in myokines that combat tumors. So should be enough to google for the full article and read. Hope this inspires the group! Husband and I weight lift twice a week but he needs to step up the cardio (well we both do!).
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intermittent anti androgen monotheray and bipolar androgen therapy
Loss and revival of androgen receptor signaling in advanced prostate cancer
PTEN loss is not a determinant of time to castration-resistance following androgen-deprivation therapy in prostate cancer
Survival rates for prostate cancer with bone metastases
