Ketogenic diet for High risk PCA? American Ginseng for fatigue?

[CancerConcierge]

Reaching out for feedback regarding adopting a more ketogenic diet for my husband and using an american ginseng supplement for fatigue. Worth while?

Husband is Gleason 9, PSA 46.6 when diagnosed, completed 28 Proton treatments, on Orgovyx and started Abiraterone and prednisone recently. Being treated as high risk and following Stampede trial protocol for high risk localized PCA.

I have been encouraging him to exercise and weight train, which he has done in limited manner, fatigue being a deterrent. Of course I understand that exercise and weight training is effective over time for reducing fatigue. Oddly, he is not always receptive to my encouraging (nagging?) him to exercise more

Any feedback appreciated.

[fireandice123]

I’ve taken American ginseng for a couple of years to help with ADT and general cancer related fatigue. I can’t say for certain that it’s directly related to my increased energy but I do feel better since I started taking it.

[CancerConcierge in reply to fireandice123]

Thanks for your feedback.

Good to hear that maybe some improved energy since taking ginseng. I went ahead and ordered some today for him. Hoping it helps!

[KocoPr]

Are you on a keto diet? Keto is great for loosing weight big time, energy big time but not sure of energy while on ADT. I never did keto while on ADT. It was also great for two meals a day with about 18 hour fasting every day. That was easy to do. But after 5 months i went from 186 to 141 and was losing a pound a day. It started causing cramps in legs and feet even though i was taking full electrolytes. So trying to push this diet on someone who doesn’t always do what you want won’t work unless he wants to do it.

As far as energy and weight lifting while on ADT it is easier to lift and exercise and less pain in my opinion if you take SARMS. (SARMS are NOT SoC). I started on osterine and cardarine 10mg/day the same day i started ADT. I monitored all my liver enzymes and lipids and they actually improved. I did this for a year while on Orgovyx and darolutamide but now im doing BAT with testosterone propianate. (NOT SoC) If he has painful bone mets forget BAT. If he is only going to do what the doctors want him to do and nothing else then skip the SARMS and propianate BAT.

It’s a lot to take in but just keep researching and using this sites search engine for past posts and you should progress to more knowledge on fighting this beast.

[CancerConcierge in reply to KocoPr]

Thanks for responding, and yes it’s a lot to take in.

No , we are not currently on a keto diet … I have been on a whole food, plant based vegan diet for five years, and don’t usually cook with oil/fat… ( vegetarian since 2010 after melanoma DX) My husband eats what I eat for a couple meals a day , but also eats tuna, more carbs, eggs and some cheese.

I’ve been researching ketogenic supplements for improving symptoms associated with dementias, mother and sister had/ have dementia … and this gave me some insights that are shifting my views on the benefits of a ketogenic approach for brain health … and of course that has lead to more reading about other applications ie solid tumors , macular degeneration etc.

We both have coronary artery disease , so would be concerned about how much we consume fats/ and what kinds.

I’m not familiar with SARMS, but can look into those as well.

Thanks for your feedback!

[dhccpa in reply to CancerConcierge]

I have been on the whole food plant based diet since 2019. Metastatic PCa. All my metabolic numbers improved, got off BP med, lost 50 pounds.

Some advocate Keto, but I've never known anyone to stay on it permanently.

[CancerConcierge in reply to dhccpa]

Thanks for your feedback...we are mostly whole food plant based as well....I lost 35 pounds the first year (2018) I started whole food plant based diet. Though have gained back at least 10 pounds this year....my husband adds eggs, tuna, cheese.... so still an omnivore.

I think strict Keto is quite challenging, and vegan Keto even more so.

[MyKis in reply to KocoPr]

Ive been on keto for 4 yrs, Started in an attempt to reverse T2 diabetes and it has been great, A1c is 5.8 from 8.9 plus other amazing benefits like incr Energy levels , supplemented with Mg Citrate (450mg)at the same and cramps dissappeard. Been on ADT (Abiraterone plus prednisone)and quarterly Gosserellin shots since diagnosis in ‘16 ( Gls 9, mets to bones) PSA currently 0.008. I feel that Keto has been the best thing for me.

[KocoPr in reply to MyKis]

Keto is great for type 2 diabetes for sure. My wife has been on it 2 years now she is doing great with controlling her glucose levels and she has plenty of energy for working out and energy all day.

I alwaus said to myself I would try it again except i will do it during the starving times jan-march just like humans have been doing for ever.

[CancerConcierge in reply to MyKis]

Wow! Great response to diet for your T2 Diabetes! Keto has been great for you! Congratulations on your low PSA...inspiring!

[mrscruffy]

Tried Keto for about 6 months, saw no benefits from it. But hey no two people are the same

[CancerConcierge in reply to mrscruffy]

Six months seems a fair trial.

Not sure what we will do yet… maybe just add some coconut and MCT oil and try to get our plant based diet cleaned up now that Christmas is behind us🤗

Thanks for your response!

[CancerConcierge in reply to mrscruffy]

I saw that you are being treated in Goodyear, AZ and have a personal trainer( we live in Phoenix)… Can I ask how you found a personal trainer? Is it a trainer from your gym? We have been leery of trainers, because of some blind spots they ( some of them) have about working safely with older clients with back issues ( husband) and Osteoporosis ( me)… but would love to someone safe to train with

[mrscruffy in reply to CancerConcierge]

My trainer is the best! She is a friend of the family and provides services to me for free as we provided housing to her a couple years back. She was familiar with challenges of ADT. She introduced me to Ostarine(Google it) and it changed my life for the better, she also got my nutrition in line and we have been seeing great success combined with my workouts. Unfortunately, she is no longer taking clients as she is transitioning to a new career. Good luck finding a trainer, it is hard to find good one when you have conditions that are not the norm.

[Sailameme in reply to mrscruffy]

In my reading, Ostarine is a worldwide banned substance.

[mrscruffy in reply to Sailameme]

But easily bought and safe when used properly. Huge in the body building community. Originally designed for prostate cancer as it suppresses T. When i began to fail with ADT gave me another year. My MO approves of its use

[Sailameme in reply to mrscruffy]

Thank you. More information is the better for us all.

[KocoPr in reply to Sailameme]

Osterine saved me from muscle pain and im sure it worked to keep my bones healthy as ADT can be harsh.

Osterine is in phase 3 trial for breast cancer. It is only banned in sports because it gives an advantage to athletes.

[Sailameme in reply to KocoPr]

As I had written above more information is better for us all. A Happy New Year to you and All.

[CancerConcierge in reply to mrscruffy]

That's interesting...that it suppresses T...

[CancerConcierge in reply to mrscruffy]

That's great that your friend can work with you...I really do believe my husband would be more motivated if he had a trainer to be accountable to!

[MyKis in reply to mrscruffy]

It should work, could you hv missed the hidden carbs ? Like eating root veg or fruit ? Note that a keto diet only works if one restricts daily carb intake to almost zero, in my case, it was a max of 1oz /day

[Nusch]

I rather recommend a plant based diet with some fish. That’s the best diet for prostate cancer fighting, according to all studies I read. Keto is maybe good for fast weight losing, but pretty unhealthy, also for CV disease.

Regarding fatigue you are right that exercise is the strongest lever. Just uncertain, wether the own partner is the best coach. I would look out for a professional trainer, he might have easier, more motivating access.

[CancerConcierge in reply to Nusch]

I agree with you that I can not be his best coach....mostly I encourage him to walk with me in the neighborhood. We don't have major weight loss concerns....and are mostly plant based ( me completely plant based vegan, him with additional eggs, tuna, cheese.)

I would love to find a trainer locally that is sensitive to needs folder clients with medical issues.

[Nusch in reply to CancerConcierge]

Exercising is not only helpful for weight loss / control. It’s even more important to keep muscle mass and train cardio vascular system. And studies say, that more sport slows down cancer cell growth. It’s maybe the most effective tool we have, besides medications.

[Ausi]

The Keto diet could help for side effects such as low platelets caused by Chemo and, 177Lut. For me, my platelets dropped to 15 causing blood clots in my bladder after 177Lut. Something you really want to avoid.

sciencemediacentre.es/en/re....

[CancerConcierge in reply to Ausi]

Yikes, scary side effects to chemo and 177lut! I was diagnosed with thrombocytopenia as a young adult....not a good time....interesting that Keto could help with low platelets!

Thanks for your response.

[fish7days]

From my personal experience I would avoid saturated animal fat and animal protein (red meat). I did it and did it well. Measuresd my ketones daily, ate gobs of animal fat only to see an increase in lesion size under 3T MRI. Lipids went absolutely nuts! Best option from a midline standpoint might be Mediterranean. I juice a lot. Just got a Nama J2 and it is a great machine

Exercise is a strange beast. The less you exercise, the less you want to exercise. The more you exercise, the better you feel and the more you want to exercise. I literally have to drag my a$$ to the gym after a day of work and I am always happy I did once I’m done. I never feel as good after not going than I do after I do go. I walk or run for 20 minutes and then weights. In and out in an hour. 3 or 4 times a week. It really does make you feel better physically but also mentally about yourself because you achieved something and something better than sitting on the couch. Stack your wins, however small they are and own them. You earned them !

[CancerConcierge in reply to fish7days]

Thanks for your feedback! I agree regarding avoiding saturated animal fat and animal protein...I'm vegan...my husband is mostly plant based, but does eat tuna and eggs. If we ever tried a more Keto diet there would need to be a lot of modifications made ......plus we both have coronary artery disease....so need to be judicious in our use of fats/oils. We may just try taking ketone esters and adding some coconut oil...a lot to consider.....

[tunybgur]

My research tells me that prostate cancer cells (and most other cancer cells) require two things to survive, glucose and glutamine. They have a voracious appetite for these two, take them away and the cancer cells die.

Glucose is not too difficult, a keto diet will achieve this, your body will produce ketones which normal cells can use, but cancerous cells cannot, however glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in our bodies and stopping this is much more difficult.

Some glutamine blocking drugs have been developed, and research has been made into pulsing them to prevent damaging healthy cells, although no full scale research programs have been carried out as far as I know.

There is more data on this on Dr Thomas Seyfried's sites, you can go there if you want to know more.....

Good luck

[CancerConcierge in reply to tunybgur]

Thanks for your feedback ....I will check Dr Seyfried's sites...I do understand that PCA an some other solid tumors thrive on glucose....and am reading more recently about how certain neurodegenerative diseases of the brain, like Alzheimers have a characteristic of not being able to utilize glucose efficiently, but can use ketones for brain fuel...this research has sparked more interest for me in exploring ketones...

[j-o-h-n]

Chocolate chip ice cream (two scoops)....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Thursday 12/28/2023 5:29 PM EST

[CancerConcierge in reply to j-o-h-n]

Can't go wrong with chocolate chip ice cream...or butter pecan ice cream......

[j-o-h-n in reply to CancerConcierge]

From your "LIPS" to God's ear........

Happy New YearS. to all.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 12/29/2023 7:03 PM EST