Мой опыт и мои мысли о прохождении ра... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Мой опыт и мои мысли о прохождении радиолигандной терапии с использованием лиганда PSMA-617, содержащего изотопы 177Lu и 225Ac. Часть 2.

RusLand profile image
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So, at the end of August 2020, a personal curator, a nice, friendly employee of the center, meets me at the airport, who gives me a local SIM card with an Internet package connected for free and takes me to the hotel that I pre-booked through Booking. The next morning, I arrive at the center to meet with the head of the center, Dr. Fuad Novruzov, to take blood tests and undergo PET/CT with 18F-FDG. A CD with a recording of my recent (no older than 2 months!) PET/I brought a CT with 68Ga – PSMA with me. In the preliminary approvals for my treatment at this center, I was also warned that I should stop taking anti-bone resorption drugs (Xgeva, Zoledronic acid, etc.) at least a month before the expected date of PSMA therapy. Also, I was advised to continue ADT in order to keep my Testosterone at castration values. Let me remind you that, by that time, I had not taken any antiandrogens.

Dr. Novruzov explained to me that somehow anti-bone resorption drugs mask cancer cells in the bone tissue and that is why they should be stopped for the duration of isotope treatment. Later, I found confirmation of his words when I independently familiarized myself with the criteria for admission of volunteers to the I-phase of research with the therapeutic drug 225Ac – PSMA-617, which Novartis started. There was also talk about the cancellation of anti-bone resorption drugs at least two weeks before participating in these trials.

The doctor also told me that the study on PET/CT scans with FDG are performed to assess the expected therapeutic effectiveness of the upcoming treatment by imaging the localization of foci that do not accumulate the PSMA ligand - these are prostate cancer cells that do not have PSMA protein on their surface, but, nevertheless, attract the FDG molecule (FDG(+)/PSMA(-)). In this center there is a special computer program developed by specialists of the Cancer Institute in Heidelberg, into which the files of two PET studies are uploaded/CT with PSMA and FDG, and the computer itself gives results about the accumulation and localization of these two diagnostic RFPs, and their ratio in specific foci. Further, the radiologist makes an assessment of the expected therapeutic efficacy of treatment using the PSMA ligand as a percentage. For example, in the presence of FDG(+) to PSMA(+) in evenly mixed foci in a ratio of 50% or more in favor of the former, the expected therapeutic efficacy tends to 0%. Moreover, such therapy is contraindicated in such patients due to the risk of avalanche-like replacement of radiation-destroyed PSMA(+) cells with FDG(+)/PSMA(-) prostate cancer cells with a sharp increase in PSA levels within a short period of time. This is important to understand! There are also variants when in one focus FDG(+) and PSMA(+) cells are localized in colonies that practically do not intersect with each other. Sometimes there may be separate, independent foci in the patient's body, both with a PSMA(+) pool of cells and with a FDG(+) pool of cells. In a particular case, PSMA therapy may be justified, due to the fact that the destruction of foci exclusively with a pool of PSMA(+) cells will not lead to their replacement by FDG(+) cells that are located in another independent focus.

Later, in some studies, I found confirmation that the study on PET/CT with FDG is of no small importance as a criterion for selecting patients for radioligand therapy using the PSMA ligand. In particular, randomized phase II studies TheraP concluded: "Lower response rates to PSA were observed in men with FDG-PET MTV 200 ml or higher (38%) than in men with FDG-PET MTV less than 200 ml (56%).). After adjustment for randomized treatment, the probability of a response to PSA was significantly lower in patients whose MTV FDG-PET was 200 ml or higher, compared with patients whose MTV FDG-PET was less than 200 mL (OR 0.44, 95% CI 0.23-0.84, adjusted P = 0.035)." Another study also talks about the importance of understanding the patient's status for diagnostic rfp 18F-FDG before starting therapy using the PSMA ligand: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

But back to my story. According to the results of a PET/CT study with 18F – FDG, no foci of pathological accumulation of this rfp were detected in my body, despite the fact that according to the results of a PET scan with 68Ga - PSMA, I had multiple foci in the bones of the skeleton, in single regional lymph nodes and in the primary focus in the prostate itself. SUVmax in some of them reached 198.0.. This meant that the malignant cells in my foci express a lot of PSMA protein on their surfaces, which is the target for radioligand therapy using the antibody PSMA-617. The expected therapeutic effectiveness of the upcoming treatment was estimated as more than 90% success rate.

Further, taking into account the fact that with this therapy, a large load falls on the kidneys to remove radioactive waste from the body along with urine, liver and kidney blood samples were analyzed and kidney scintigraphy for SPECT was performed. Also, according to a general blood test, the hematopoietic functions of my bone marrow were evaluated. All these tests and studies I had were within normal limits. And the attending radiologist decided on the possibility of conducting therapy for me according to a tandem scheme using two therapeutic RFPs 177Lu – PSMA-617 and 225Ac – PSMA-617 with a short interval of administration, with doses of isotope activity of 5 GBq and 4 MBq, respectively, for the first course of therapy, and then according to dynamics.

From that moment on, I was ready as an astronaut to fly into space...))

To be continued, follow my publications!

P.S. I deliberately divided my publication into several parts of two A4 pages of typewritten text with font size No. 12. I think that longer texts with information that require comprehension should be assimilated for the reason that while you finish reading such a text to the end, you already forget about what was in the beginning ..))

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RusLand profile image
RusLand

My PET/CT scan with PSMA. Total defeats.

PET with PSMA
Ramp7 profile image
Ramp7

That sounds very logical to my experience. I was not directly told of any measurements, my PSMA expression was over 95%. This would relate to a favorable outcome, which it did. But I also developed a new hot spot on my tail bone which they are treating with radiation. This new spot is probably cancer that does not express PSMA. PSA went from 8.1 to 0.19, now at 0.50.

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply toRamp7

Hello, Ramp7! In the initial version of this publication, I repeated one paragraph twice, and skipped one altogether..(( I've fixed everything now!

RusLand profile image
RusLand

My PET/CT with 18F-FDG. There are no foci of pathological accumulation of rfp:

PET with FDG
ragnar2020 profile image
ragnar2020

Hi RusLand, Ramp7 & Pilot52,

I’m making the assumption that all three of you guys are reading this post and maybe others that I haven’t discovered yet because you’re getting or have gotten Lu-177 treatments. I think this is a terrific source of hands-on information, and I want to thank each of you personally and collectively for taking the time to share your experiences and knowledge. Those of us who are exploring and contemplating trying to obtain this treatment either through a clinical trial or by going out of the US to obtain the treatment elsewhere appreciate the time you take to post your experiences.

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply toragnar2020

Thank you, ragnar2020! Your words are worth a lot and confirm my confidence that everything has been done - it has not been done in vain because with our publications about our experience we make it easier for those soldiers who follow us! Yes, it really is a time-consuming process, taking a lot of time, especially when you are not a native English speaker and often stumble over all these medical terms in the translation process.. But it's worth it for the reason that if it helps at least one person, then all this was not in vain! My opinion! And God bless us all! Amen!

Excellent, this describes exactly what can be expected based on the two different scan types.

cesces profile image
cesces

Do you still think it's worth going to Germany for this treatment, now that it's available in the USA?

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply tocesces

Hello, cesces ! Perhaps you are confusing me with someone?! In the first part of my story, I wrote that I was undergoing this treatment in Baku, Azerbaijan. And I don't think that the experimental tandem therapy (177Lu+225Ac-psma) that I'm talking about is now available in the USA, just as it is not yet available in Russia. I do not think that the location of any PSMA therapy is of fundamental importance if you are confident in the quality and safety of the medical organization you have chosen. The most important thing is to conduct a qualitative screening of the patient in order to assess the expected therapeutic effectiveness of the upcoming treatment! That's exactly what I'm trying to tell you in my publication!

in reply tocesces

May I be frank and humble? In Baku they obviously perform this treatment based on the multi scans at an affordable price, the same in New Dehli, In Heidelberg they charge 4x?

ragnar2020 profile image
ragnar2020 in reply to

Good morning SHH696,

Germany has an advanced capitalistic medical system as is in the US, and as a result, everything is monetized carefully by the businesses that deliver the medical care, the diagnostic procedures, the drugs - everything. New innovations are slow walked under the pretense of protecting the public while simultaneously protecting cash flow to the established parties within the medical system. We can bitch about it, and obviously I do, but no one has been able to quickly alter the structure. All we can do is research availability of what we need wherever we can find the services, and then figure out how to get to where the goods are being provided for a price that we are willing to pay.

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply toragnar2020

Hello, ragnar2020! I specifically focused on this point in the first part of my publication, when I talked about choosing a clinic based on price-to-quality ratio. Firstly, it is the level of purchasing power of the local population, which, as you know, generates demand! Secondly: I have studied treatment programs for a very long time in many clinics in Germany, Finland, Israel, etc. There are a lot of studies in Germany that duplicate each other and are generally absolutely unnecessary and reinsurance, and possibly officially approved as imposed services..?! )) For example, tests for various infections, inflammation, ultrasound of the genitourinary system, two SPECT after 24 and 48 hours to determine the distribution of therapeutic RFP (one is enough after 24 hours!), etc. 1/3 of the cost takes mandatory 5-7 day accommodation and meals in the clinic itself, and translation services... It's all unnecessary, one day in the clinic is enough! At the same time, I did not find the much-needed PET scan with 18F - FDG in any of the programs. You will have to pay separately for this research! For example, the mandatory program for therapy with 225Ac - PSMA-617: bookinghealth.com/universit...

in reply toragnar2020

Excellent described, I am Norwegian - same system here. I researched luPSMA treatment, probably having that next year. 5500 in New Dehli, 20000 Euro in Germany for each treatment.

ragnar2020 profile image
ragnar2020 in reply to

Hi Rusland,

I've communicated with Pilot52, and he is an excellent source of information about obtaining LU-177 treatment in Delhi. In fact, he is there as I write this getting his second round of treatment following a recurrence. He may be reading these posts. He has spent a lot of time determining where to obtain LU-177 treatments and the cost at each place. Germany and Israel are considerably more costly than is India for essentially the same services.

It will be interesting to watch how this all shakes out in the USA now that the FDA has placed its Good Housekeeping seal of approval on the procedure. What institutions will offer the procedure and will the institutions negotiate successfully with Medicare so that Medicare insureds will obtain coverage. The SOC is primarily the institutional legal department's defense protection against future malpractice lawsuits. "This is what we all do in these cases...."

This is the time of year to beware of Medicare Advantage insurers. Those companies are relentless marketers luring into their programs unsuspected elderly with promises of discounted bonus benefits. When the insured requests payment for PBT, PSMA PET CT scans, MRIs or eventually LU-177 treatments, the Medicare Advantage claims administrators deny the coverage and the chase is on! Gotta stop this rant......off topic again!

cesces profile image
cesces in reply to

Interesting

E2-Guy profile image
E2-Guy

Thank you RusLand for taking the time to translate and post these very complicated publications. Your command of the English language is incredible!

I hope these procedures work for you and others that are need of something different?

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply toE2-Guy

Hello, my friend! Did you look into the personal chat here on HU..?!

johnscats profile image
johnscats

How did they protect your kidneys and saliva glands as they have natural pmsa

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply tojohnscats

Good question, johnscats, thank you! But do not overtake the locomotive by running on the rails in front of it ..)) There will be another 3 part of this publication!

Have you had the opportunity to assess High-Dose Botulinum: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

RusLand profile image
RusLand in reply to

Hello, SHH696 ! Unfortunately or fortunately, I am not familiar with this injection..)) We discussed this moment in Baku. They deliberately refused injections into the salivary glands, as according to the accumulated experience in the centers of excellence during these injections there were a lot of complications at that time in the form of facial distortion and dysphagia.. Perhaps, if, as in this new study, this is done under ultrasound control, then the effect will be expected to be better. I can't judge it right now, but thanks a lot for the link! I will send it to my radiologist in Baku and wait for an answer from him ..))

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