A few weeks ago, a poster questioned the necessity of calcium + d3 while on ADT.
Several responders seemed to suggest that supplementation may increase PCa risk. I am currently in my 16th month of leuprolide treatment. At the beginning of my treatment a bone density scan found that I was "mildly osteopenic" . My oncologist has suggested that I take 1200mg calcium/day supplement. This supplement includes about 600 IU of vit d to improve calcium apsorption. I take no other vit. d. For what it's worth, I consume only small amounts of dairy.
While my own search has turned up conflicting published reports on the role of calcium and vit. d with PCa genesis, I can't find any reports that suggest that calcium supplementation is unnecessary or useless to prevent bone density loss in long-term ADT therapy. Can anyone help me with relevant links?
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mike__c
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In the case of vit d supplement to enhance calcium absorption, the vit d is significantly less (about 600iu/day) than the megadoses cited in your linked study.
The results of this clinical trial suggest that 500mg calcium/400iu vit d BID reduces the risk of significant BDM changes during 28 months of ADT. auajournals.org/doi/abs/10....
That's not a randomized clinical trial, like the ones I linked to. It proves nothing, and should be ignored since better info is available. In fact, BMD declined in that observational study in spite of taking calcium and Vitamin D. It again shows the uselessness of supplementation. Calcium at that level endangers heart health, kidney function, and is associated with prostate cancer progression.
Tall_Allen. I was prescribed calcium and Vit D for PC. Had taken them both for a couple years but when scaned with PSMA and Choline the CT picked up new Calcium deposits in my arteries. I dropped the Calcium and began taking Vit K MK7 which I have read will move Calcium from arteries to the bone.
I'll be looking for future scans to indicate if that worked.
Do you have any info on this Vit K MK7 being effective at transporting Calcium to bone?
There is a lot of misinformation on Vitamin K. To my knowledge, none of it comes from clinical trials. I strongly recommend you discuss this with a cardiologist before self-medicating. What you think may be removing calcifications, may be causing even more dangerous blood clots in the same vessels. Also, Afib incidence increases with age, and your supplements may be adding to risk.
Weight training 3 days a week for an hour. Get a trainer to get you started. Avoids loss of muscle mass and it substantially increased my bone density within a year. Work out hard but smart. Start with very low weights with reps.
Forget the D/calcium unless you actually test low.
Exercise, both weight bearing and cardiovascular, is essential anyway, and is critically important on ADT. It will also do more to extend your best life in every way than all the vitamins put together if you eat healthily.
If you already lift weights, great add as much vitamin D and calcium you want, weighing the risk that TA refers to. After all it is true that doctors recommend it to people with osteopenia/osteoporosis every day. MO’s recommend it to their patients going on ADT reflexively.
However, if you’re aren’t lifting weights on ADT, expecting calcium and vitamin D to effectively fight bone density loss won’t work, and you’ll lose muscle that will be hard to get back at your age.
The only alternative if you continue to lose density is a bone strengthening drug, but even that by itself no answer. ADT accelerates the aging process and wastes muscles. I assume you know this.
Since this leads directly to balance issues, falls, and most dangerously fractures, it’s the risk you really don’t want to take.
My wife’s nephrologist wrote a chapter on calcium supplementation in a just-published technical textbook on chronic kidney disease. The gist of his chapter is that calcium supplementation is not only useless, it is often dangerous. He stated that at lower levels of supplementation you just pee it out. At higher levels it can accumulate dangerously in your organs.
Schwah correctly pointed out that weight bearing exercise will increase bone density. Personal trainers term this, "Form Follows Function". The body deposits the minerals in bones to adapt to the stimuli placed on bones strengthening them.
Schwah's advice about getting a trainer, "to get you started", was spot on. It isn't unusual for a neophyte who hasn't learned proper lifting form to injure themselves.
Weight training, resistance training with bands and the small shocks from running or vigorously walking as the feet contact the surface stimulates this increasing bone density. Ellipticals, bikes and even treadmills which have a rather soft belt decrease the benefit of this.
If one can do these exercises even with light weights, these exercises are the most beneficial for stimulating the body to deposit minerals in the skeletal system. Back squats, deadlifts, cleans and overhead presses.
Vigorously walking would include, if one is able to, Steve Reeves "Power Walking". It is online.
Something of interest to me is "Gravitational Wellness". A couple men I email and speak with started a prostate cancer group in Atlanta, Georgia. One told me about Gravitational Wellness. It is certainly worth a read. It shows how the body respond to stimuli. The link is below
As for supplements, Dr. Ruth Heidrich became a vegan. Her story is a good read for us. The only supplement she takes is B12 which may be problematic for men with prostate cancer. She completed an Iron Man in her early 80's. Bone density tests show her to have strong bones--duh--she did complete an Iron Man--
If none of the above is possible, vibration plates were originally designed to increase bone density in the elderly. The small shocks sent through the skeletal system by standing on the plates stimulates the body to deposit minerals in bones. It was found that standing on the plates accelerated healing after surgeries--imagine that! The NFL heard about this little phenomenon as a side benefit and imagined that too! Trainers began using the plates to accelerate healing when players were injured. It was found that recovery time from hard workouts was also shortened. Players bought their own plates. Gym Source was selling some "pricey", top quality plates. The "Big A" has plates on it's site.
Foods? Men with "our prostate problem" should avoid calcium supplements and get their needs from foods. A link--
I like spinach both raw and cooked. I often buy a 50/50 spinach and kale salad blend. I like almonds and eat some just about every day. Black beans are in my chili. I blend a drink with seeds and nuts to open "nature's packaging".
Bromelain and piperine or black pepper can increase absorption.
pjoshea13 posted a study that showed that it is best to avoid B12 if you have had prostate cancer and concerned about recurrence. He has been in "the game" for some time and has acquired much knowledge.
A quick link and intro:
Circulating concentrations of vitamin B 12 have been associated with an increased risk of prostate cancer in a meta-analysis based on 6 studies, including a case-control study nested within the UK-wide, population-based Prostate testing for cancer and Treatment (ProtecT) study of PSA -detected prostate cancer (pooled OR=1.10; 95% CI 1.01, 1.19 per 100 pmol/L increase in B 12; P=0.002) [ 1 ].
The causal roles of vitamin B12 and transcobalamin in prostate cancer ...
Eat foods that have adequate amounts of B12. Lee Haney, an eight-time Mr. Olympia Champion, has said he ate pineapple daily when training as it helps the body absorb nutrients. bromelain is an extract from the pineapple and of course, black pepper or piperine helps absorption.
Bromelain | Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center
Jan 26, 2021 · Oral enzymes such as bromelain have been proposed as additive agents for cancer therapy . Proposed mechanisms include downregulation of the immunosuppressive cytokine TGF-
Dec 19, 2020 · Black pepper contains piperine, which exhibits antitumor activity in several cancers. It may help reduce PCa proliferation and interfere with the cancer’s cell cycle. In oneHow pepper fruit, others stop prostate cancer - The …
May 25, 2017 · Researchers have identified and validated pepper fruit, pawpaw, West African Black pepper and cowhage (velvet bean) for the prevention and …
My best to you,
Currumpaw
My husband's urologist also prescribed calcium and vit d because of the bone mets. He was already on them because of a Vit.D deficiency with anemia and kidney disease. We follow the doctor's advice on the strength and the reason for taking it. All agreed on by his Nephrologist, Urologist and Cardiologist. If you doctors told you the dosage, there is a reason. If YOU personally determined the dose, please check with your doctor. Everyone should only take supplements a doctor tells you are necessary from blood work. Too much of anything is never good.
Is he getting Zometa infusions as well? That entails a need to replenish the blood with the calcium the Zometa removes so to speak.I am on Zometa but have practically eliminated my calcium tablet intake and my blood level of calcium has remained normal. Diet might be having an influence too don't know really.
No, he isn't. The side effects worried him as he already battles with most of those symptoms very severely as it is. He's pretty weak and the thought of feeling worse was not appealing. Yes, better diet would certainly be helpful...this man has never met a vegetable he liked. I didn't argue about not taking anything for the bone loss as I have osteoporosis and do not tolerate the drugs recommended either. He has seen how they affected me. Often times the "cure" is worse than the disease. Thanks for the suggestions though.
You have to do what is best for you. BTW I wasn't suggesting he get Zometa. Just wondering if he was in which case Calcium is recommended.
I don't have a special diet either especially being palliative so if my calcium is normal it's just a "luck of the draw" lol. Although my wife plays a big role in counteracting my unhealthy desires with healthy ones. I have to remind her broccoli sprouts are like a seasoning to me. I'm not a horse or a rabbit lol.
Seems you have had a long time with this..both of you. Keep on trucking and thanks for standing up to that guy who thinks its ok for the government to decide no to abortion lol.
I see Chicago Med. I used to live in Palatine for 23 years.
No problem...I didn't take it as a suggestion. Just rationalizing why he isn't on that treatment. I realized you were simply trying to get a better idea of the situation; all the facts do make a difference and matter! I battle daily on the best way to help my husband. He pretty much depends on me to handle it all and research, making sense the often-complicated information. That's why I come here, not being a man I need and appreciate what the experience is like because you guys are the ones living it. And thanks so much for your support on the other matter!!!
So good of you. Taking care these years. I hope your health issues are tolerable if that is even a way to say I wish you didnt carry health issues yourself as well.
You probably know this but you might want to stop responding to that other matter as could be the person is "fishing" and caught you and keeps "baiting" you to respond, but your a grown up so of course use your own judgement.
You are right...I came to the same conclusion. Couple weeks back some guy sent me a message calling me names and was quite nasty. I reported it of course. Nothing will get through to people like that. Seems like stopping all comments on that conversation would be best at this point. Thanks.
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