Dairy Products: So are dairy products... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Dairy Products

Coldwell01 profile image

So are dairy products as dangerous as I have been hearing? That they can lead to PC . Or is this hype? I really like my ice cream!

58 Replies

If I were 94, I would be gorging on ice cream. Don't let internet chatter determine what gives you pleasure. Good luck.

Anything in excess can be dangerous. Moderation, is the key to varied good nutrition--one of the first things you learn when taking a Degree in Diet and Nutrition.

Nalakrats

If I live to be 94, damn moderation. Just waking up when your 94 is dangerous. You sure are easy to bait. The excessive heat getting to you?

What seems to be your problem?

One eyed Jack, what’s your downfall, what do you like toe eat. 😃

john4803 profile image
john4803 in reply to Nalakrats

Exactly, says my Dietitian wife. Eat what you love but in moderation or you will dream about it & then binge on it. Learn portion sizes. The larger the plate we use the more we eat.

Move more eat less, is also one of her favorites. Also, "Eat to live, not Live to eat"!

Slow down when you eat! If you are using utensils, put them down in between bites. Don't talk with your mouth full, as even my hillbilly Mom used to say & this will slow you down. I'm using "you" in the corporate sense! :)

Nalakrats profile image
Nalakrats in reply to john4803

Good old Axioms/Maxims all that go back to my Grandmother. I am glad I agree with your wife--we must have taken the same advanced courses.

Nalakrats

john4803 profile image
john4803 in reply to Nalakrats

She got pregnant, otherwise, she would have a completed a PhD at Ohio State. Was a year short. She has taught several years at the university level and worked in several hospitals, over the course of 40+ years. I'm convinced she's helping keep my side effects to a minimum with my diet!

All of you fine men attacking Nalakrats - grow-up! It's okay to have different opinions and viewpoints. I, for one, value his input. You can choose to believe him or not. There is no need to attack him like an angry mob.

Kay

Schwah profile image
Schwah in reply to Dwight777

Agree 100%. Why would they be bitter with someone who spends hours on this site trying to help others. They can bypass his posts if need be but why attack?

Schwah

Dwight777 profile image
Dwight777 in reply to Schwah

The attacks are beyond my comprehension. We are all here for the same reason - prostate cancer. We can all support and be kind to each other. It's not hard. I appreciate each and every post and reply I read, whether I agree or not. I don't post very much and don't reply to many posts because I am still learning from the others, and I hope they ALL continue sharing their knowledge.

By the way Coldwell01, if you were my husband, I would want you to continue to enjoy your ice cream. Just don't go hog wild crazy with it.

Just hype- nothing conclusive:

"These preliminary findings do not support the previously-reported harmful impact of dairy product consumption on prostate cancer risk among US men."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

"our results suggest that milk and dairy intake after a prostate cancer diagnosis is not associated with an increased risk of lethal prostate cancer."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

There some retrospective studies that show an inverse association.

Until we have more data, it is OK to have dairy, just don't make it your only source of protein. Variety is the key.

Thanks for getting the discussion back on track.

In moderation dairy is fine as long as you are physically very active and able to burn those extra calories dairy provides. I favor a Cup of Yogurt daily to keep microbiome healthy due to its probiotic effect.

MrG68 profile image
MrG68 in reply to LearnAll

If I was eating yogurt, I’d consider raw milk kefir instead. Not for everyone, it’s quite tart tasting. Incredible nutrition though. You may wish to blend it with a little fruit. If you’re doing keto, you can add some monk fruit.Btw, making your own probiotic yogurt is extremely simple. All you need it an instant pot and you can literally make liters which will last a very long time in the fridge.

That way you can make as much organic, unpasteurized yogurt as you wish. Just need some raw milk and a couple of cups of some existing yogurt. When you get down to your last couple of cups, you start the process again, over and over.

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll in reply to MrG68

Exactly. We make our yogurt at home with unpasteurized Milk after removing all cream as much a possible. We bought a very good quality probiotic and use it to make yogurt. After that we continue to use previous Yogurt 3 times and then again go back to using probiotic . Billions of people in Asia make yogurt at home for day to day use.

Here is a very recent article about probiotics and prostate cancer.

:onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...

youtube.com/watch?v=FxQdEl4...

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to LearnAll

I'll believe these dietary claims when I see randomized trials.

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll in reply to maley2711

Sure. You can wait ..

maley2711 profile image
maley2711 in reply to LearnAll

I probably will.

It would take the rest of your life to absorb and know what I have gleaned--and yes MS in Diet and Nutrition from Rutgers University. This was your last that I will respond. You would be able to take the new gained time, and learn how to be a bigger -------------!May God have Mercy on your Soul. Baruch Hashem!

I am a grad from Rutgers! I went there from 1984-1989. Did our paths cross?

I am 79---I predate you by more than a few years! Good to know there are some co-students? I was doing a Masters-what where you majoring in?

Nalakrats

BS Earth and Atmospheric Science. Cook College. So I thought if you were doing a Masters maybe a few years after your undergrad (you seem like a lifelong learner type) we may have crossed paths.

Really? This place is supposed to be for friendly discussion. No need for your nonsense. Bring it elsewhere will ya?

Schwah

London441 profile image
London441 in reply to Schwah

As a bystander with no dog in the supposed fight these exchanges read like the transcript of a old married couple argument -90% vitriol, 10% actual disagreement 😀

Gabby643 profile image
Gabby643 in reply to London441

I like that, no need for Egomaniacs.

Eat it. Cachexia is a bigger issue.

Maybe keto ice cream sweetened with erythritol would be an option. Still has lots of calories and tastes great. My son likes it more than regular dairy ice cream.

Evidence about casein is speculative and some of it might be correlation. At the same time, there is a lot of it.

Little dragonfly, with the broken wing--->sit, read and learn!

In 2004, I was in a six month clinical trial of chemotherapy with hormone therapy. My Professor Researcher of Genitourologic Cancers had me stop dairy and dairy products. (Although he he allow one cup of Blue Bell a week. :) ). Why I asked. Prostate Cancer and Breast Cancer are closely related; more than most understand. Both are hormonal cancers.

Milk and other dairy products contain a hormone known as Insulin-like Growth Factor 1. It promotes the production of androgen hormones such as testosterone, which can worsen hormonal imbalances.

Guys on ADT and other treatment have a hormonal imbalance; witness the typical large abdominal area of visceral fat. BTW, the best substitute for dairy is Almond Milk..... Nalakrats’ independent research along with his team of Integrative Medicine, confirm the research of my guy. Me? Balancing hormones has taken 60 pounds, and six inches off of my belly, of visceral fat off since January.

Good luck,

Gourd Dancer

Schwarzenegger prefers almond milk. Go one minute into the video and the three minute and fifteen second mark too. I partake of the "little bit of that in there" each day which is "Dynamic Health's Tart Cherry with Turmeric and Ginger Tonc".

youtu.be/jFk-L7Wcg0g

Currumpaw

smurtaw profile image
smurtaw in reply to Currumpaw

youtube.com/watch?v=VabuKub...

Currumpaw profile image
Currumpaw in reply to smurtaw

Haa!! Nice find!

The German beer with the lemonade that Schwarzenegger has in that refrigerator piques my curiosity!

Currumpaw

I have chosen to substitute Almond milk for milk and I have cut down on cheese. There are non diary “icecreams” but they are more expensive.

Dairy doesn't work for me and likely others as well. Makes my body ache stiff and muscle soreness, sometimes bad back pains with sugars. Might be harmless for some and not others. No study can test all groups of men

Everybody loves ice-cream. Forget about ice-cream if you have cancer! Have some no-sugar yogurt instead. Haven't you heard that sugar feeds your cancer like crazy?

in reply to irakor

You said "Haven't you heard that sugar feeds your cancer like crazy?" I think most of here have heard that many times. Fortunately though, it's not true.

That doesn't mean we should overdo our sugar intake, but there is no evidence that sugar "feeds cancer". You can do a Google search on the subject, but here's what some of the major institutions have to say:

mayoclinic.org/diseases-con...

dana-farber.org/for-patient...

mdanderson.org/publications...

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS in reply to

Especially true in prostate cancer although some will argue that it later mutates to prefer sugar or sugar, gluco, derivatives. Again no actual science behind even that argument though.

in reply to CAMPSOUPS

Repeating a myth enough times doesn't turn it into truth. Applies to politics too.

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS in reply to

Ain't it the truth lol.Has become an intentional methodology from politics to supplement corporations.

irakor profile image
irakor in reply to

Yes, it is true that glycose feeds the cancer. I've read a lot about this and you have, too. Starting with the Nobile prize in 1932 and 1964. But I have my own experience. Once I was very ill and spent a few months in a hospital and a rehab. When I finally came home, a lot of friends and relatives started coming to us with delicious cakes to celebrate my recovery. My husband (prostate cancer stage 3B) couldn't resist having a little cake, though he was on a strict no-sugar diet. As a result, his PSA went from 0.04 to 0.07 in a couple of weeks. Then he returned to his strict diet and his next PSA was again 0.04. This was in 2013, since that time my husband's PSA has unfortunately gone up to 2 plus. But since then, we've got our own "sugar" experience. I wish you good luck!

Hey Jack,

Do you have a valid contribution to make or are you just looking for a keyboard altercation? Is there is a personal grudge? I dislike seeing space on a thread where others are sincerely seeking information that may be of help to them taken up on what seems to be a personality issue.

Negative back and forths that have nothing to do with the reason MaleCare came into being are not only counterproductive, but a couple members have messaged me saying that they now, only occasionally monitor the site because of this type of keyboard use, which is too bad. They are uncomfortable with it.

Please try to take the "high road".

I wish you the best as I do all that are here.

Currumpaw

My husband has had very painful knees for the 40 years I have known him. He always drank a lot of milk. He drank it in place of water. Once I convinced him that all of the milk he was drinking was drinking wasn't good for someone with prostate cancer he stopped drinking it. He realized the dairy was the source of his knee pain and now experiences very little pain in his knees. By the way, we think the "Simply" almond milk is the best.

Read up on caesin and the biochemical pathways involved with PCa and make your own judgement. Everything you read about milk here is opinion, but it has been associated with progression in prospective studies. It just depends on which risk bucket you want to be in.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Watch or read forks over knives. Dairy is probably bad for people with prostate cancers based on the evidence. However, fermented dairy, like kefir might be beneficial because of its fermented properties. It contains CLA, which helps fight cancer. Don’t fall for the comments about “if I was 94…”. They don’t realize that you might want to live to 100. If you start throwing caution to the wind, and over indulging now, you might not see 95. I’ve seen too men take them indulgent route because they that they were at a point where they didn’t have to be cautious anymore. One died six months later with his face in a plate of Fettuccine Alfredo and the other person died two months later from heart complications caused by overheating while on vacation. Enjoy what you love, in small portions, like the French do, and keep socializing as much as possible. I bet you have always been good at this. Don’t change now.

Words of wisdom George!

CLA, "conjugated linoleic acid", is found in grass-fed, free-range, beef. One has to be careful when choosing beef. Words can be manipulated. The free-range, organic, grass-fed, shoulder steaks I switched to when grass fed became available were the real deal. Compared to the steaks from the regular market these steaks were the bring your teeth variety. Those cattle had muscle from doing cattle things! They weren't confined to pens.

CLA helps one lose fat and also inhibits cancer.

Eventually I became a "Forks Over Knives" guy. It seems to have been a last key. Time will tell.

The fettucine? I hope it had been generously salted and peppered with a nice glass of wine on the side--if you are going to go--go in style!

Thanks for bringing civility to the site George. It is easier to walk the high ground than trudge through the gutters.

Currumpaw

I agree currumpaw. Right on, as usual. Apparently, the key words now for the beef, are grass-finished. Sometimes the grass fed are only fed a little, while being held in a stockade. The industry is sneaky. I just finished a grass finished to sirloin yesterday. 2 ounces a day for four days, with vegetables and buckwheat. Keeps my heart healthy, might slow the cancer. Keeping it real and keeping it civilized, as Seinfeld says. The man who died while eating Alfredo, he used to eat like that all the time. I think he was in his early 60s when he passed. He was an American with degrees in economics and middle eastern affairs. He wrote about 15-20 books. Amazing, useful books that government leaders could use to run countries effectively. Unfortunately, most world reps are need well read out intellectual. Most of this man’s books, probably her very little reading except in the classroom. He made a positive impact on the world, and he was a nice and interesting guy. I have one of his books here at home. I told him at dinner a couple times, that his food was unhealthy. He decided that he didn’t care. I respect that. He made his choice. I just don’t like to see people eating poorly and not knowing how bad it is for them.

George,

Vegetation sources of CLA are mushrooms, pomegranate seed oil, (who uses that?!), safflower and sunflower oils.

I couldn't get the info through my search bar but---a product that contains gasses such as Green Vibrance powder must have somewhat decent levels of CLA in it. Whether our digestive systems can utilize CLA from the powdered grasses contained in the "green drinks" is a topic to explore.

There are supplements but---read the info in this link

___________________________________________________________________________________________

What foods contain CLA? | Exercise.com

exercise.com/learn/what-foo...

___________________________________________________________________________________________

paying especial attention to this excerpt from it:

"Some possible side effects of CLA supplements are heartburn, indigestion, fatigue, loose stools, and nausea. CLA supplements may also cause high blood sugar or low levels of HDL cholesterol.

CLA supplements may also increase the C-reactive protein, which indicates high levels of inflammation in your body. If you experience any sort of allergic reaction, such as hives, itching, a rash, difficulty swallowing or breathing, wheezing, or swelling, you should stop taking the CLA supplement.

Studies are lacking as to whether CLA supplements negatively interact with any medications or drugs. If you are pregnant or breastfeeding, CLA from food sources is safe but it is unknown if supplements are ok."

Currumpaw

I eat mushrooms daily and take mushroom tablets and pomegranate and green veggie powder. Organic of course. Thanks for the info bro.

SUGAR is the enemy - but I agree that at 94 .... indulge in all that you most enjoy.

Just my 2 cents. Would eat an Ice cream cone over a serving of pickled pigs feet.

My free advice........ Eat all the ice cream you want but cut out the sex.....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 06/15/2022 5:57 PM DST

barrybayarea profile image
barrybayarea in reply to j-o-h-n

That would be cool if we had a choice to keep a few things, I would keep the sex and drop the ice cream 😜 I am pigging out on ice cream during chemo, I figured I can indulge a little ;)

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply to barrybayarea

I'll buy that, you're 60, Coldwell01 is 94......

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 06/15/2022 7:28 PM DST

Try not to mislead yourself.Common sense moderation will suffice.

FALLEN INTO A HOLE

This was released a few days ago, it's retrospective, but it also puts the threshold way above the average intake, IMO.

news.llu.edu/research/new-s...

From your profile:“I am 93 with stage 4 prostate cancer. I am taking eligard, prolia, and xtandi. “

Eat your ice cream man!

I believe you should eat what you want. and enjoy the ice creamLiving to 94 is wonderful as you must be doing the right things and have good genetics.

My masters in Holistic Health and Nutrition have taught me many things but living with cancer myself for many years as well as my husband presently having prostate cancer has

made me appreciate the good thigs in life...............and I think you should do that too enjoy what you want,

🌹

Let me state first that I have greatest respect for every warrior in this community and I especially admire some of the professional experts here. When I read your post and some of the answers first time, I didn’t want to add my opinion. But after reading more & more I changed my mind. Here is my view: Regardless if meat and dairy products feed PC anyhow, there is enough evidence (Dr. Greger, Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. Fuhrmann, Dr. Bernard and many more), that too much of it and also lower quantities e.g. of meat from stressed animals pumped full with antibiotics after a short and catastrophically „life“ do harm at least to our cardiovascular system and overall health. Being a warrior and fighting against PC also means looking at potential side effects and try to prevent them as good as possible. Many warriors die not because of PC but other causes, often fostered by medication. So daily exercise (running, walking, weight lifting) plus a whole food plant based diet is doing so much good, that it shouldn’t be overlooked, just because we only focus e.g. on dairy and potential growth of tumor cells. Everybody of us is a very unique artwork, puzzled together of uncountable, individual bits and peaces. So at least I for myself treat my disease as holistically as possible. This includes diet.

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