Is Dairy a problem in PC: I have had PC... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Is Dairy a problem in PC

tceinvestments profile image
tceinvestments

I have had PC for 20 years and finally in the middle of 6 Chemo treatments. I have stayed away from red meat and dairy since my diagnosis in 2002.

Since I started Chemo, there are very few foods that taste good especially in the first 2 weeks after the infusion... One thing that does taste good is Milk on my raisin bran in the morning and a small bowl of ice cream after dinner.

I am foolish to take on any dairy now in my journey?

Thanks for the input.

Tom

127 Replies

Cow juice seems to be fine. This was from a prospective study (PLCO) among 49,472 men with follow-up of 11 years. They filled out food diaries at the start. "Total dairy product consumption was not statistically significantly associated with risk of any prostate cancer or stratified by disease severity. "

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Don't believe everything you read, especially from people on this forum who don't understand how to properly interpret research. Most observational studies reported in this forum and in other Internet sites, should be thrown out with the bathwater.

Most importantly, don't deprive yourself! Treat yourself well.

Thanks TAAlso - thanks for the suggestion of Docetaxel in my journey.

PSA down from 15 to 2.8 after 3 infusions and ALP down from 238 to 120.

Not a fun experience - but hopefully worth it with a few more years of life.

Tom

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to Tall_Allen

Cow juice? 😂😂😂

Good to hear, I do enjoy some natural ice cream, low fat cottage cheese and cheese and crackers.

What about this guy who says all animal products should be avoided for PCa?youtube.com/watch?v=xVsDbUa...

noahware profile image
noahware in reply to Back2future

Let's think about his three lines of argument...

1) his own observations are anecdotal, and he even suggests it might be the weight loss and calorie reduction in men that are the factors potentially impacting PSA. Here are MY anecdotes: switching to a low-cal keto diet (virtually ALL fat and protein) saw PSA drop from 20 to 13 in ten weeks.

Two years later, after I stopped bicalutamide, a six-week vegan diet of near-ZERO protein saw PSA rise from 25 to 185. I followed that with six weeks of anything goes (LOTS of meat and dairy) and PSA went from 185 to 165. So all 12 weeks with no treatment, and it certainly doesn't seem my PC was paying much attention to what I was eating!

2) Yes, PC feeds on fatty acids. But it can make those out of amino acids that are NOT animal-based. While methionine, for example, is found in greater concentration in animal foods, it would be possible (even if unlikely) to consume more of it as a vegan than as a non-vegan depending on the exact types and amounts of foods you were eating.

Also, a vegan diet high in simple sugars, industrial seed oils and processed carbs might be more pro-inflammation than a whole-food diet that included salmon and yogurt, for example.

3) The China study tells us that lower protein intake over the course of one's life seems to help PREVENT cancer, and I fully agree. (If I could do the whole sixty years over again, I would eat differently. ) But once you already HAVE advanced PC, does that protective effect necessarily apply? Such studies tell us nothing about that.

I agree with you. I would have done a lot of things differently if I know now it's going to live this long. So I'm going to do everything I can to enjoy every day I wake up and fight the beast.Thanks Tom

He is making the same errors that many people do.

(1) there is no one-to-one correspondence between PSA and the cancer. Sometimes the tumors are getting larger and increasing PSA; sometimes metastases are spreading, "preparing the soil," or going through different cell cycles, which doesn't increase PSA. That's why the only way to know if a treatment (like diet) works is to compare it to a control group. Note this study on the importance of a control group from Johns Hopkins:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

(2) Also, notice how he says that the ones who claimed but really didn't follow the vegan diet, didn't really have the same good results. This is simply "confirmation bias" on his part - he is allowing outcomes that agree with his hypothesis, but disallowing outcomes that don't agree. Food diaries are much better than his looking to throw out patients that don't follow the pattern he is looking for.

(3) I very much agree that PC prefer fats and proteins to sugar. But he jumps to two erroneous conclusions: (a) fat and protein intake are lower on a vegan diet, and more importantly (b) that reducing intake of any one nutrient will slow the cancer down. In fact, cancer is a voracious feeder - if fats are not available, it will switch to an alternate energy source. There is no known way of slowing a cancer down by limiting one energy source in the diet.

In fact, this small, limited term randomized controlled trial showed the opposite of Scholz's thesis. In a post-hoc analysis, it showed that decreasing carbs in diet slowed down the PSA doubling time:

clincancerres.aacrjournals....

(4) Epidemiological studies, like the China study, are useless for drawing inferences. What else was different about those regions in China? How long did those people live? What were the differences in screening, diagnostics used there? Genomic differences? Soil? Microbiomes? Physiological differences? Immune profiles? Activity levels? Total caloric intake? Variety of food sources? In fact, the MEAL study proved that increasing the amount of vegetables in one's diet had no effect on PCa.

jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...

This is why scientists learned long ago that the only way to learn if any intervention makes a difference is to treat one group of people and to compare their outcomes to another group of people who are nearly identical due to randomization.

I would also add, there seems to be little truly compelling evidence to support the idea that those consuming dairy should choose non-fat over full-fat. For many of us, full-fat may actually be the healthier choice. (It sure didn't seem to be a problem for 3 of 4 of my grandparents, who remained in good health into their 90s while consuming fair amounts of butter, cream and whole milk.) Fats are essential for good health, and saturated dairy fat is probably better for us than the unsaturated fats of industrial seed oils.

Thanks - something good to eat

Lettuce231 profile image
Lettuce231 in reply to noahware

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

CalBear74 profile image
CalBear74 in reply to noahware

Your grandparents never consumed dairy from cows that received injections of hormones and antibiotics. See Joseph Keon’s expose book or YouTube video “Whitewash”.

noahware profile image
noahware in reply to CalBear74

Actually, I suspect they did, since that practice began in the 1940s. Today we probably have better opportunities to find and consume less-adulterated dairy products than we have had at any time since before WWII.

But yes, if you are not seeking out grass-fed, organic and hormone-free products, you are getting industrially-farmed dairy. But that applies to ALL animal-based foods, not just dairy, and of course it applies to vegan products in terms of pesticide residue.

Dairy specially Yogurt and Milk in moderation is harmless. Avoid eating a mountain of cheese.

10 - 4

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to LearnAll

I love cheese 🧀

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll in reply to Lulu700

Just 2 slices only ..please.

A little won’t hurt nothing. Just don’t bath in butter or chug any half and half and you’ll be alright. Almond and hemp milk doesn’t taste bad either I love Raisin Bran 🤙🏽

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll in reply to Lulu700

Lulu, Raisins are good tuff...loaded with Resveratrol.

Don't forget non-dairy cheese products. My favorite brands are Good Planet and Violife.

Thanks

I like a lot non dairy stuff. Good is Aldens organic cookie crumble frozen desert . Like ice cream and has sugar. Mm . Wife makes her own quinoa or bean patties for burgers . She feeds me only healthy , I eat it all . Take care ✌️

I'm GONNA DIE and maybe sooner than later had 5+5 not enter my life, BUTT I'm still enjoying Parmigiano Reggiano, solidified cow's milk + sugar, N.Y. Style Cheesecake, M&M's and other EVIL foods. What the hay, it's a **once around the block** 'cause I believe "It's All There Is" and then it's lights out.

and maybe splurge with a ...dare I say it......nice thick fatty steak once in a while?

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to maley2711

I Like me a rib-eye.

Thanks

I luv all that stuff . As long as your cycling 🚴‍♀️ you should be good .🤙🏽

Everything in moderation is a good way to live.

Agreed

Try eating ice chips before, during and a little after while recieving your infusion. My 1st infusion left me with the "ate a bowl of hot soup in one gulp" effect! Couldn't taste anything for a week+. 2nd infusion I added the ice chips (also having hands & feet iced) and for me, it worked awesome! No burnt might feel... Didn't even have that metal taste in the mouth when the start the infusion.

Anyways, as noted, the association with diet and PCa isn't all exactly chiseled on granite bonafide information. Moderation is key, but enjoy what you enjoy! I have really given up anything, just changed methodology, lol. I love steak too much to completely eliminate it! Grilled foods too, which aren't supposed to be good either.

Smile like there's a winning lotto ticket in your pocket, and dance like nobody is watching! :D We all get too caught up in it all and allow the weight to drag us down...

Thanks Cooolone ...

MateoBeach profile image
MateoBeach in reply to Cooolone

I only have dairy and steaks from vegetarian cows. And no fake cheese. 🐄😆

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to Cooolone

We left the grill at the last house . No mo carcinogenic meats .. I surely had my fill. Keep rolling Cooolone!👏🏼

Man, I don't know what is better, Tall Allen knocking it out of the part saying don't believe everything you read since some people don't know how to interpret data, or him calling milk COW JUICE! Bravo sir! Bravo! haha

I love the hell out of some full-fat milk myself, but it bloats the hell out of me and the last thing I want when eating right to lose weight is to feel fatter haha.

My best recommendation other than having some awesome full-fat milk with your cereal is to stay away from sites that have "Truth" in the name because it's just going to be a Vegan or Vegetarian propaganda site. I'm not knocking people who chose to eat that way if you have cancer. Whatever works for you man. Keto/Paleo people can be pretty bad with food propaganda but "plant diet saves the world" sites are NEVER going to say, "Yeah, have some milk now and then." :)

On these sites I've been on said choline will mess you up. It's an amino in eggs and chicken. I've asked a doc was there any truth to this. After he got done laughing, "No joke," he said, "I wish it was that easy." My other doc in Thailand at the time told me cancer is going to find a way to eat ANYTHING to grow so as long as you're not eating processed foods, just eat what you want.

Like any other diet would tell you. :) So have a second bowl of cereal with full-fat milk! It's not going to kill you. Perhaps a poor choice of words since we all have cancer hahaha, but you know what I mean. :)

YOU ARE THE BEST!!!! - Final Boss Matt

FinalBossMatt wrote >>> " ... My other doc in Thailand at the time told me cancer is going to find a way to eat ANYTHING to grow so as long as you're not eating processed foods, just eat what you want. "

I'm not eating "processed foods" but have been feeding the PCa with bi-weekly Testosterone injections for 5+ years making life more enjoyable and as for DRINKING FULL FAT MILK --- 🤮

I'm fascinated. You're not the first person I've seen say they've been taking testosterone injections. Other than obviously wanting to feel better hormonally..... why?

Actually starting "T" injections wasn't my idea at all. Before selecting my TREATMENT DOCTOR I started with a bilateral orchiectomy instead of ADT. When we had the consultation HE SAID he would get me on "T" after treatment so I could still remain physically active doing my marathons, half marathons, triathlons, 200+ miles/day bicycle rides. He felt confident that his plans for treating my confined GL10 (as/tests) would allow the "T" replacement without causing issues. So far -- 6 years no balls and 5 years on "T" that's right now helping me spread 4 yards of #57 -- 3/4" limestone and a 50 mile bicycle ride planned for tonight. Got to keep this 70yo body in motion 'cause if you sit, you rust.

I’m totally confused. We’re told to use ADT ( chemical castration)to reduce T which feeds Pca and you’re told after actual castration that T replacement therapy is ok!? How is that possible or is it just possible with orchiectomy??

I would use TRT in a NY minute if it didn’t cause Pca recurrence.

Break60,

I was never told that "T" injections are a great idea for a castrated GL10 PCa guy, it's just that when my Dr. said he would prescribe "T" following my treatment which is in itself an OUTSIDE THE SOC PROTOCOL treatment AND my desire to have Quality over Quantity, I was GOOD TO GO. It's possible that my diet, exercise and immuno injection could be helping to keep things at bay right now and not work in the near future. Only time will tell.

What is your immuno injection?

Opdivo + Yervoy + Keytruda

Addicted2cycling:

I get it. Every study I’ve seen says that guys like me (gleason9, SVI, ECE and positive margin ) are advised not to try TRT. Over two years ago I switched to estradiol patches to relieve 90% of the side effects of ADT . I was wondering if you found a silver bullet .

noahware profile image
noahware in reply to Break60

You say every study you’ve seen says that guys like you are advised not to try TRT. Now, it certainly true that the conventional wisdom advises against it. But actual studies on TRT, SPT, BAT do not generally show super-high T doses to promote aggressive progression of cancer as a rule. What they show is a high variability of response from man to man, and it is that unpredictability that leads to the continued caution.

I am wondering, can you link to any recent studies that show supraphysiological doses of T are likely to promote PC progression? Many of the studies I've seen suggest the conventional wisdom is wrong.

Because it is outside SOC, no doctor can or will prescribe high-T to TREAT your PC without risking litigation. But docs can and do prescribe it to improve QoL, and lo and behold some men seem to get additional benefit in terms of PC progression (which should not be confused with PSA progression, since PSA commonly rises with high-T before stabilizing, but scans can reveal the higher PSA does not necessarily correlate with any tumor progression).

Here are some case reports from Morgentaler, and then some from Liebowitz (who has several lectures on TRT and PC under "Compassionate Oncology"):

liebertpub.com/doi/full/10....

compassionateoncology.org/p...

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to noahware

I'm Gleason 9, T3 b/c, local lymph node involvement, organ involvement, seminal vesicle involvement, positive margins.

I had an RP in 2018 by Mayo. My Mayo onc and urologist were in agreement that I had 3 months max before I had to do chemo and/or radiation. I did 5 months of estrogen-based ADT (despite 4 doctors telling me that it wouldn't work). T went to zero (yup, good 'ol High School biology beat the doctors). Then I started SPT. That was in 2019. Fast forward to today. I am still on SPT. My (new) SOC MO just smiles when I see her and tells me to "keep doing what you're doing because it's working".

I agree that there is huge variability and when someone asks me what to do I try to talk them out of SPT unless they know the risk and are willing to take the gamble. Even if I was just one of the lucky guys who had his cancer go into remission, the data tells me that it works for some of us. Not for all of us, unfortunately.

The choice I made has been called crazy by some. But if it was crazy, I'd rather be alive and crazy instead of a sane skeleton :)

tceinvestments profile image
tceinvestments in reply to RSH1

What is spt? Who is your mayo oncologist? I am at Mayo Phoenix Dr Bryce.

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to tceinvestments

SPT is supraphiysiologic testosterone. High test. Mine is more than the lab upper cutoff. I calculate it at 2100 at the lowest point in a week and over 4000 at the highest (a little after an injection)

I don't want to tell you who my docs were - different than yours. I talked to Bryce once and he seemed smart.

My docs were good technicians. The urologist did a great job with the surgery but I didn't think much of his knowledge or people skills.

TCE investments? Did you go to ASU? A friend of mine has been a realtor in Phoenix for 30 years.

tceinvestments profile image
tceinvestments in reply to RSH1

Yes - GO DEVILS...Who is your friend?????

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to tceinvestments

In the 90's I had season tickets. Plummer era.

Matt Deuitch.

tceinvestments profile image
tceinvestments in reply to RSH1

Don't know Matt. We were in Denver in the 90's. Moved back 5 years ago...

noahware profile image
noahware in reply to RSH1

I may very well end up going down a similar road, tE2 followed by SPT. It just seems to me the negative effects of lifelong ADT, continuously, will impact QoL and overall health for the worse without a real assurance that lifespan will be significantly extended.

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to noahware

That was precisely my thought. I gambled but the payoff was QoL. Personal decision but I'd rather live 5 great years instead of 20 terrible ones. And there is no guarantee that on conventional ADT I'd have 20 years. So...

Great news. Very informative. How is your PSA on this program. I have thought a lot about an orcheonomy - just having trouble pulling the trigger.

For me it was stated “ shots for life” the orch Was a no brainer .. hard for most me after spending a life protecting the family jewels . It was like trimming the dead wood ( that will

Kill me) from the tree Whoo hoo! Docs want us on meds .

I've been told I have little to NO BRAINS so I'll go with the Orchie for me was definitely a NO BRAINER.

What you’re doing is amazing

Thanks but IMO, amazing -- no just "CRAZY" with a possible outcome that might turn out to be helpful for others.

PSA is OK and checking every 3 months. Still have half a prostate so some PSA will be around. Only 2 times in my life have I pulled the trigger faster than a Spaghetti Western Sharpshooter >>>

After son was born my wife had a massive bleeding complication. Doc said any more kids and she could die so I chose to have a vasectomy.

It was either ADT with side effects that could be terrible or an easy bilateral orchiectomy. A NO BRAINER was to slice and dice AND NO ISSUES.

Perfect

Do you get hot flashes????

NO FLASHES when following injection schedule but if I delay the injection I can bring my "T" level down to double digits that will bring on flashes + sweats + that "just not right feeling. "

Got it. What is your t level?You guys got me thinking about getting rid of the jewels once the chemo is over.

Hard to part with.

When I stick with the bi-weekly and don't skip the numbers run 500 to 650 on injection day with blood drawn just prior to injection. I have "ON PURPOSE" delayed injection for 2 extra weeks "just to see the numbers I'm at causing the issues" and the test results were 20's to mid 30's. The day after injections has been 1,600.

Ooch

Dumb question: if you have no prostate , does orchi work?

Only right half of prostate with GL10 was ablated, orchie was for "T"

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Amazing

Choline is predominantly from the yolk and chicken skins from my readings. Whites and meat are fine ;)

Yeah, I know but honestly, people can argue you can get cancer from just about any-fucking-thing, even toast.

If you get rid of the yolk, you might as well get rid of the whites and eat air. :)

Basically is just boils down to shit genetics and getting predisposed to this shit, which we all are apparently.

Yaaaaaaaaay, we win the prize........ jeez. haha

That’s a fact jack!

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to Cooolone

There is a great funny movie in which the hit man orders 4 chickens fried” just the skin”! 😂😂

A healthy diet my entire life still got me Cancer...i eat what I want but avoid what we know is not good for you a heart healthy diet is best for us all and that includes an occasional steak and bowl of ice cream....I like Almond or Oat milks in my Raisin Bran.

I really like raisin bran.

Don't forget the cinnamon 👍👍

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to Hotrod65

🤙🏽

Cooolone profile image
Cooolone in reply to Hotrod65

Unless you need to avoid Oxalate! Lol

It's a bumpy road and the wheels are tiny, getting caught in every pothole!

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to Cooolone

😂

😆

I keep hearing that it is.

I am glad that Tall Allen is familiar with the research and says this warning isn't supported by the research.

I have been drinking milk and eating cheese and feeling guilty about it.

No longer guilty now. Lol

NO FEELING GUILTY HERE EITHER! What's it gonna do ??? KILL ME !!!😀 LMAO 👍👍

Lolz that...

Response of the week haha

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to cesces

Unfortunately, it is supported by NIH/PubMed. I can cherry-pick studies showing that it makes no difference or I can cherry-pick studies showing it makes a difference. On balance, the meta-studies that I have seen suggest a slight difference. Is that enough to change the eventual outcome? Probably not. But those little one-percenters add up.

If you only do a few of the one-percenters and hold the line, that's one thing. Getting down that slippery slope is another.

I can read lots of cherry-picked flat-out nonsense on this site or others. If I have a question about something though I ALWAYS go to PubMed and clinicaltrials.gov. I'm not guaranteed that the answer will be correct. But at least it won't be bro-science from a doctor or some guy who doesn't even have an M.D.

By the way, I encourage you not to listen to me either but determine for yourself what your answer is.

tceinvestments profile image
tceinvestments in reply to RSH1

Thanks rsh

Enjoy! I can’t find a decent keto/ low carb all bran cereal so I just don’t eat breakfast. Or lunch. That makes me “OMAD”. (But not So mad.)

As far as I am concerned all food has no effect on cancer. Slight statistical "bumps" might happen but overall claiming a specified food to be cause or cure never proves out. Herbs, chemicals and supplements, like turmeric, mj , etc. will change PSA readings. Some things you ingest can trick the test causing an apparent PSA decrease whilst it is actually increasing. Very not good. Other things actually kill off or do other damaging things to cancer cells presenting as a PSA decrease.

Eat what you like except foods fried in seed ("vegetable") oils. Ingesting known carcinogens is asking for it. If your "food" has 4 paragraphs of unpronounceables, maybe don't eat it.

If you have found a food that drops your PSA significantly (>50%) and it has kept it down, please share.

I am stickin' cannabis, fisetin and a few other odds and ends that are actualy keeping my PSA down.

I guess i'll get a lot of flak on this on but that is ok, lets share and learn.

reb77 profile image
reb77 in reply to ck722

A few folks have mentioned fisetin. Could you please share your understanding of its benefits-much thanks. How much do you take?

ck722 profile image
ck722 in reply to reb77

It, somehow, kills or harms cancer. Take it 3 capsules a day for 3 days once a week for a month and then get a PSA test to see if it worked. It does for me. Your milage may vary, hopefully in the good direction. Humanx brand from Amazon, 500 milligram caps.

Recently I have backed off to 2 X a month.

tceinvestments profile image
tceinvestments in reply to ck722

Very interesting has your PSA dropped?

ck722 profile image
ck722 in reply to tceinvestments

.o3 to <.015

reb77 profile image
reb77 in reply to ck722

Thank you for your reply. One last question. Do you know if Tal Allen has ever commented on the merits of fisetin?

tceinvestments profile image
tceinvestments in reply to reb77

I do not know. Ta - what are your thoughts on fisetin??Thanks Tom

ck722 profile image
ck722 in reply to tceinvestments

Perhaps he has read of a study or two. In addition to dropping my PSA an unintended consequence of the consumption of fisetin is the basal cell carcinoma on my nose has 95% disappeared. When I noticed it was shrinking I started applying it topically mixed with olive oil. No side effects that I know of.

Im a believer in “listening to your body talk”. On the other hand, we are the only specie on earth that drinks the milk of another animal, other than our own Mother. We love Almond Milk. Easy to digest. Non-dairy. Cost you only $4. To learn if you like it on your raisin bran, like me😎. Start w the 60 cal, then go to 30 cal. If you wish.

“It all works, but nothing works well”MKK

ck722 profile image
ck722 in reply to Spyder54

Insignificant statistical bumps, I call it. A million miles from the word "cure" but life extension is extremely important too.

A resource I use to guide my dietary choices is a book by Dr. Charles Myers titled, "The New Prostate Cancer Nutrition Book." I've found it to be an excellent guide and one that I've followed pretty closely. I don't adhere to all restrictions all the time but mostly I do. Dr. Myers, for example, prefers elimination of red meat but also states that it's OK to treat oneself once in a while and try to select red meat that is grass fed. Another good informational resource is from UCSF's Medical Center, part of their "Your Health Matters" series. It is titled, "Nutrition & Prostate Cancer." It's a downloadable .pdf file. Quite a good guide and can be accessed via ucsfhealth.org in their patient education library.

(I eat VERY little dairy, anyway, due to previous conditions of IBS and diverticulosis. Dairy is a "sludge producer," i.e., high residue food.)

Thanks for sharing Explorer.... Good info.

hi Tom ... i love dairy too ... consider organic dairy ... that's what i do ... best wishes ... Nous :)

tceinvestments profile image
tceinvestments in reply to Nous

Thanks so much

Hidden profile image
Hidden

If your prostate cancer has metastasized it doesn't matter. Eat what what you wish, after all we are all on the same ship sailing into oblivion. Now pass the wine corkscrew please and don't forget the cheese and crackers. Hurry the Netflix feature film is starting.

tceinvestments profile image
tceinvestments in reply to Hidden

Agreed

Break60 profile image
Break60 in reply to Hidden

I disagree re: eat what you want if you’re metastatic. I had mets to pelvic lymph nodes two years after RP after Gleason 9 in 2013 when I was diagnosed with stage Pt3b; a femur met 1 1/2 years later ; and mets to scapula and a rib a year later. It’s been over two years with no more mets. All bone mets were treated with SBRT . Thankfully I’m oligometastatic. So I’m at lower risk even though I’m stage IV. I’m 77.

I had gained 50 pounds eating junk food and drinking alcohol and felt awful . So I said enough is enough . I’ve lost 40 pounds in 4 months on the Nutrisystem diet.

Hating ADT, I switched to estradiol patches in Feb 2019 and went off trelstar, xgeva, metformin, and avodart. I still get occasional fatigue, sex is a distant memory , my package is hard to locate, I have small man boobs and can’t gain muscle even though I work out frequently. But it’s far superior to SOC ADT. My T is practically non existent.

That’s why I’m interested in T supplementation . I was on TRT for a decade prior to diagnosis with Pca due to hypogonadism. I’d spoken to Dr Morgentaler years ago about BAT and he didn’t recommend it for me. Maybe this new approach he discusses in noahware’s link is worth looking into.

Thanks.

Bob

Hidden profile image
Hidden in reply to Break60

I posted eat what you want. I didn't post eat garbage food to the point that you gain 50 pounds and resemble Porky Pig! Eating what you want can go hand in hand with eating what you want in moderation. Reading postings with a dash of common sense and absent of preconceptions can go a long way. I eat a sensible diet that includes fish, dairy and red meat once a month. I don't eat to the point that I look like the Michelin man. I'm 70 years old, 5'11", 155 pounds. I run 5 miles four days a week and lift twice a week. The LAST THING I'm going to worry about is having a grilled cheese sandwich with 4 ounces of red wine for a night cap. If your stage four your on the same path that I'm on and that path is death, don't kid yourself, we are dead men walking. Final note: I don't worship Dr. Google and the off the cuff cures that overwhelm the human race.

tceinvestments profile image
tceinvestments in reply to Hidden

I also eat in moderation. 74 - 6' - 185 - lift - walk - swim

Hidden profile image
Hidden in reply to tceinvestments

And your doing everything right. As I stated in an earlier post, Why deprive yourself of foods that Dr. Google proclaims will take a year off your life? Your Comprehensive metabolic panel and Complete blood count with differential will tell your medical team how your doing, period.

Break60 profile image
Break60 in reply to Hidden

I heard crackers and cheese! That and booze wrecked me. It’s all about portion size and calories in vs calories out and eating a balanced diet. I may be dead man walking but I plan on walking for a few more years!

Me Too - Break 60.. I never dreamed 19 years ago I would last this long and neither did the Doctors - SURPRISE. Now after this Chemo experience, I hope to beat the beast some more - LORD WILLING.

Yes I was told I had three years to live back in 2015 by a MO. Eight years after dx I still don’t have an MO. Just a urologist and RO. I’ve had no need for a MO.

You are very lucky to have those two professionals.

I eat very healthy too - and not much.

You are fortunate. I have had PCa 6 years. I am now mCRPC, stage 4. Many researchers are looking at cancer cell metabolism to find ways to block is's food supplies, 'starve the cancer'. Your restricted diet may be why you are still going after twenty years. This article gives a clear picture with link for more.nutritionfacts.org/2014/07/...

Thanks bud

Dairy, and specifically yogurt, is my main source of calcium. No harm in enjoying milk and ice cream.

Try those sparkling no-calorie fizzy water flavored drinks. They tasted better to me than water during chemo and kept me hydrated.

Thanks tall guy I will try those.I have metal mouth for about 10 of the 21 days.

When I was younger I used to drink a quart of half and half with my lunch.

tceinvestments profile image
tceinvestments in reply to ck722

Me too. When I was much younger. Nothing better than a cold quart.

Very satisfying indeed.

Most epidemiological studies implicate cow milk with PCa progression contrary to the study TA parrots every time this questions is asked, not to mention the biochemistry behind that point of view showing the milk protein, casein, promotes the proliferation of prostate cancer cells such as PC3 and LNCaP. Buyer beware, and as TA says don’t believe everything you read on this site, including his own posts.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to timotur

Amen brother. I've noticed that some people ONLY post studies that support their positions. If you want the truth (as of today ;) ), search PubMed or clinicaltrials.gov.

tceinvestments profile image
tceinvestments in reply to RSH1

Thanks

Data from PubMed studies, metastudies, and clinical trials indicate a possible slight risk from dairy. Can be debated but in the meantime, I'm avoiding dairy. Then again, I never craved it prior to cancer and I don't crave it now. I do not like milk and yogurt even less. Eggs are ok as long as they are scrambled with lots of butter and salt to hide the taste.

I'm mostly vegan but occasionally jump off the vegan diet to have some steak or fish.

An example metastudy from PubMed. 2020.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/313...

Edit: unless it was a slam dunk great food for cancer or health I'm not returning to it. Not my cup of tea. Speaking of tea, where is my cup? :)

Chocolate chip ice cream (two scoops)...

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Sunday 04/25/2021 11:46 PM DST

Yum

And like Arnold says "milk is for babies". I used to down 2-4 gallons a day when I was in my teens (yup - 5000 calories+ from milk alone). My metabolism isn't what it was when I was 19. No more milk unless I want some pudge to go with it.

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