A study a few months ago said that certain strains of probiotic can help ADT work for a longer period of time - inverse.com/mind-body/gut-h....
"Abstract: The microbiota comprises the microorganisms that live in close contact with the host, with mutual benefit for both counterparts. The contribution of the gut microbiota to the emergence of castration-resistant prostate cancer (CRPC) has not yet been addressed. We found that androgen deprivation in mice and humans promotes the expansion of defined commensal microbiota that contributes to the onset of castration resistance in mice. Specifically, the intestinal microbial community in mice and patients with CRPC was enriched for species capable of converting androgen precursors into active androgens. Ablation of the gut microbiota by antibiotic therapy delayed the emergence of castration resistance even in immunodeficient mice. Fecal microbiota transplantation (FMT) from CRPC mice and patients rendered mice harboring prostate cancer resistant to castration. In contrast, tumor growth was controlled by FMT from hormone-sensitive prostate cancer patients and Prevotella stercorea administration. These results reveal that the commensal gut microbiota contributes to endocrine resistance in CRPC by providing an alternative source of androgens."
I presumed that taking a couple different probiotic supplements might help achieve that effect but someone on this site "TA" said the probiotic supplements can produce increased amounts of Folate and B12. I did a bunch of research and found that most of the probiotics on the market do promote B12 and folate, which have been thought to be growth-promoters of Advanced PCx.
I did find one probiotic that seems like it might be helpful to us. It does appear to increase folate and B12, but the probiotic could be used intermittantly as necessary to heal the gut. You can tell me your thoughts on it. I'm not an expert on the topic but I read several studies on probiotics to find something that might be helpful, instead of promoting cancer. This is the item: biogaia.com/product-country... Here is more info on L.Reuteri - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl....
This new study (link below) related to melanoma basically says that immunology treatment patients did better if they ate a lot of fiber than if they took probiotic supplements. This is a summary of the study:
Basically, it says that prebiotics such as fiber can be helpful, and some probiotic supplements can be harmful. The same probably applies to prostate cancer. They talk about how antibiotics can help by killing all the bacteria that promote the prostate cancer, but since it kills the good bacteria too, then it's hard to know whether it is beneficial. Maybe if you eat lots of fiber while you take the tetracycline or doxycycline, then you can maximize the benefits...who knows.
I've been focusing on trying to determine what foods help to promote the type of probiotic strains that studies say are linked to greater longevity (akkermansia (blog.undoctored.com/akkerma..., Prevotella stercorea (bananas, mangos) and one or two other strains that I can't recall), then continue to or add those foods to my diet. I'm giving away all my probiotics, except for the one I mentioned above. I'm thinking about continuing a prebiotic supplement, continuing the high fiber healthy diet, and maybe adding chicory root supplement.
Please realize that I'm not a researcher at a cancer institute, so if you don't like the way I have phrased things, then please focus on the intent. I'm just trying to stimulate conversation and bring intelligent, actionable ideas to the forefront. I also don't want people taking a load of probiotics, if they might be shortening the effectiveness of ADT treatments. The two article links above are based on real studies that were done. If you want to look up the studies, go ahead. One of them is observational, with a small number of participants. Take it with a grain of salt or don't take it at all. It's all I could find, but I think it is helpful.
On a separate point - The cause of my activity the last couple days, is from drinking a can of Rise Nitro Brew each day, and my energy has increased by leaps and bounds. You might want to check it out. I stumbled on it by accident in the grocery store.
Lastly, in the prostate cancer/bacteria link above, it says, "abiraterone blocks the production of androgens from bacteria" ... Does anyone know if Darolutimide (Nubeqa) blocks the production of androgens from bacteria?
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Nal, I looked at the study results for DE 111. They looked good in all the strains except with alistipes, which rose. In a Japanese study, alistipes was said to be elevated in high risk prostate cancer patients. I'm not sure if the rise in Alistipes is high enough to outweigh the other benefits that include anti-inflamation though. Just thought I would mention what I read. "One hundred and fifty‐two Japanese men undergoing prostate biopsies (96 with cancer and 56 without cancer) were included in the study and randomly divided into two cohorts: a discovery cohort (114 samples) and a test cohort (38 samples). The gut microbiota was compared between two groups, a high‐risk group (men with Grade group 2 or higher PCa) and a negative + low‐risk group (men with negative biopsy or Grade group 1 PCa), using 16S rRNA gene sequencing. The relative abundances of Rikenellaceae, Alistipes, and Lachnospira, all SCFA‐producing bacteria, were significantly increased in high‐risk group. In receiver operating characteristic curve analysis, the index calculated from the abundance of 18 bacterial genera which were selected by least absolute shrinkage and selection operator regression detected high‐risk PCa in the discovery cohort with higher accuracy than the prostate specific antigen test (area under the curve [AUC] = 0.85 vs 0.74)." ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
yes, building a healthy microbiome with fermented foods, exactly.
You bring up a good point with that article. Some probiotics might be bad. Some might be good. How do I know based on my particular gut biome? And my gut biome changes so is what might be beneficial today be bad tomorrow?
My diet is ridiculously high in fiber. I eat a little sauerkraut, kimchi, miso, etc. and let nature take it's course. Until I see RCTs that show something conclusive, I'm not planning on tampering too much with my bacteria.
There are a few trials either recruiting or pending reporting that look interesting. Might give some leads but my guess is that we're many years away from having some real answers.
After reading several study results, I think it is logical to presume that the healthy gut microbiomes that fight cancer and other disease more effectively, come from cultures who eat a plant-based diet, with fermented food and stay away from processed foods. What you are doing is right on the money. And, diversity of veggies, fruits, fiber etc. is even more important than the quantity.
Regarding Akkermansia, Davis states: "There is no commercial probiotic to supply this species, nor is there any way to create it out of thin air if you don’t have it. Fecal transplant would do it, of course, but . . . . ew "
I've been using roasted ground chicory root to cut coffee consumption. I put very small amount of cocoa butter in with it. Is the roasted version still beneficial?
I presume it’s still beneficial. Roasting might reduce its effectiveness but roasting usually doesn’t destroy all the benefits. Look at roasted peanuts and roasted coffee and see what it does to those, when they’re roasted.
You may fly to the moon !! Just be aware that Jerusalem artichoke contains high levels of inulin, a very gassy non-digestible carbohydrate that is fermented by gut bacteria. I can personally vouch for its gaseous after effects !!!!
I am going the fiber route myself. I eat as much variety of veggies, tubers, greens, mushrooms and roots as possible. Jerusalem Artichokes is one of them, thanks Patrick. Also I understand Burdock Root and Jicama are both pre-biotics. I don't eat vast quantities of any 1 single veggie but who knows how much is really needed to have an effect on your gut biome. I read awhile back that probiotics where a waste though I am not saying they are. At that point I added as much fermented foods as I can find, mostly sauerkraut.
yep, the diversity is more important than the quantity according to several study findings. You're eating right. I'll have to look into: Burdock Root and Jicama .
Why not diet and pro-biotics? I eat mostly plant based I take 1 pill per day of Klaire labs vital-10 5 billion cfu multi species probiotic supplement. Cheap and easy . 7 yrs on per Dr. Uzick .. good luck! 🍀
I dont know for sure. depends on the amount of each strain, the type of strain, and how your body processes it, but that one study I shared the link to, cautions against the probiotic supplements, in favor of getting a good microbiome through healthy eating. a prebiotic supplement might be better than the probiotic. Probiotics healed my gut after coffee and antibiotic damage 3 years ago, but maybe it's best to use them for short periods of time to heal, then go back to food only. I'm just guesstimating based on reading studies etc. If everything has been working for you for a long time, then maybe its best to stay with it.
A year ago I stopped taking it for a few days . Instantly my stomach wasn’t happy .. I’ve taken this stuff so long it’s second nature now .In a healthy digestive trac immunity lies? Take care GG ! Thanks
It's good when we can find a way to makes our guts calm. This past 10 days or so without probiotic supplements is an experiment for me. I'm surprised I've had no real issues. Maybe it's because of the large amount of sprouted organic steel cut oats I eat, along with certain fruits etc. No problem lulu. Have a great weekend!
makes sense. i just got interested in the probiotics the last few weeks because of the study that showed, having a certain kind of gut microbiome helped make the ADT last longer.
Mmm steel cuts oats and fruit . I eat veggies veggies veggies …. ✌️
I'm not by any means against probiotic supplements but this is an industry in its infancy and as you can tell by the many studies, not enough is known. I've been reading scientists are just beginning to understand the role of gut biome for nearly a decade now. So learn it already would ya?
I recently read an article where a scientist, I believe he is a microbiologist but cannot find the article. Anyway, long story short he had for years live on a specific diet and as an experiment, went on a fast food diet for a few weeks. He notes that ten years later, his gut biome has not returned to what it was before the experiment. BS or truth?
I wouldn't know but the more I learn here and until Nalakrats can download his brain on a thumb drive.....
So a couple of thoughts, first, one article from one person and no mention of his health regardless of diet, so gain of salt there.
My concern is what to take. How does one know which of the millions of micro bacteria will help and which will harm or be useless?
Then there is the obligatory product quality question.
Hell, before coming to this sight, I didn't know B12 was possibly a cancer accelerant. Same with iron.
Bottom line for me is that I'm a bit spooked by supplements. I do take psyllium husk, Tumeric (though probably not enough) vitamin C, D and Krill oil.
I do eat all kinds of vegetables - love most all of them. SO in the spirit of your request, George, dialog is my goal. Thank you for posting.
You’re welcome swags. Just keep learning from others and from studies, and make adjustments. It’s like triangulating artillery indirect fire. The hard part is that the enemy is constantly moving their position, and the studies that the scientists conduct, often contradict previous studies. It’sa moving target. We do the best we can, using our minds, or we just do whatever the doctors tell us to do, and we dont do any thinking for ourselves. I don’t care what other people do, but I’ve seen doctors kill several people that i loved, as well as kill me, so i lean towards self help, but also try to do what medical treatments will extend my life and quality of life.
I but that every time I'm there, although lately it has not been in stock, so I get bubbies at the grocery store. I get the big container of kimchi at Costco and eat it up very quickly.
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