Next Tuesday I have a surgical castration consult. Quick history. Diag May 28th Stage 4 Gleason 9, PSA 1065. Casodex and Lupron. Diet changes and supplements provided if your interested. Off Casodex in about 6 weeks and on Zytiga and Lupron as well as bone building infusions. Treatment same to this day. Current PSA .5. I am physically tolerating treatment with the exceptions of muscle fatigue and hot flashes which I do not expect to change much with surgical castration. I see all the good men dealing with chemo castration failure and figure a life time of chemo castration of get er done. Thoughts welcome
Thank you and Merry Christmas!!!!!
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katartizo61
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Hi Magnus! Question about bilateral Orchiectomy. If someone has beeen on ADT for few years and progressed to Abiraterone for one year (five bone mets) and the PSA is slowly starting to rise again, is there any value to having or even possible getting a bilateral Orchiectomy? In other words, is it too late to even consider and you would gain nothing? Looks like I'm starting to see another pivot point in my treatment. What would you do?
If I understand correctly what you shared with Herm, if a man is responding the lupron and zytiga, you might be suggesting there is little or no benefit to castration???
Welcome KaT! If you’re from 61 like me ,salud amigo . I started this #4 gl+4+4 ,t-4 over six years ago . When my pc specialist told me Testosterone will kill me I said” off with the juevos”! He had me wait for a 18 months “to be sure “ he said . I was told shots for life and I’d be dead in 36 months at most. . I did imrt Lupron and Tak -700 that I’m still on today . My Uro was pissed that i was beyond surgery . He was so happy to chop chop and to make a little scratch off of me . As I entered surgery he was standing with his other surgeon cohorts and said” This guy here does not want to come and see me every three months for the rest of his life for shots” . They all nodded in unison . I had a few months of feelings of worthlessness and being put out to pasture . I suffered some depression for my first three years . Most guys are on mood meds or sleeping aids or pain meds or all three . Thankfully I’m on none of that yet . Now weed is legal . I make my own high thc oil to use daily and I smoke to relive nausea and promote my appetite and help my moods . My boys were shrunken tiny and painful . Iwas casterated chemically . For me it was like trimming dead wood from a tree . The tree is better off with out it . I have friends that tell me they’d rather die than chop the boys . I choose life and dropped the lupron shots . Best decision I made in this mess . Se la ve . I can scale tall buildings now and jump barbed wire fences with no fear of the family jewels . Theyre now just an afterthought after 4 years Being Mia. Heal yourself however you feel fit . It’s your life ., Good luck pushing apc far away for many years ! 👍
Absolutely agree. I have female family members with breast cancer and each said chop em off I don't need them any more. If the end result is castration!!!! what's the point or benefit of a life-time of medicine??? Merry Christmas!!!!!
Amen Kat ! You do you , and live life ! Good luck proceeding! Merry Christmas . 🎄 Next year I’m hoping that you will have a great as possible outcome.. we tread water! Take care young man 🙏
Yep, off they went... Now I have 'boobs' your family members could have if they can find a transplant dr and our DNA matches close enough.... Life Is Good with out Lupron for life.
Lulu700 wrote --- " ... When my pc specialist told me Testosterone will kill me I said” off with the juevos”! He had me wait 18 months "to be sure" he said... "
April of 2015 during a Monday morning consultation following biopsy and scans my urologist told me I needed "ADT starting NOW" and I told him "no ADT, I prefer instead an Orchiectomy NOW" and just 24 hours later the BOYS were gone.
The urologist's jaw hit the ground followed by *but-but-you know there will be no more T ever again and no more ------ * He had his assistant call for a pre-op appointment/scheduling right then and the pre-op was done 4 hours later with Orchiectomy next day.
My non SOCtreatment protocol for Gleason 10 might very well kill me sooner rather than later but getting the Cypionate shots bi-weekly has proved to be an interesting experiment and will see where it leads.
It’s you life . You took control . Keep riding ! 🚵🏼♂️🚵🏼♂️🚵🏼♂️
I chose to have my beauty's loptd off five years ago,after failure of prostate removal. Seminal vessel and nerve bundle invasion....then a month of salvage radiation that failed. I chose the 'ork' because I had one shot of Lupron and didn't like the evil feeling of that shit running though my body. I've been running on 0.04 since then. I can't say what it may do for you bro but it's probably worth considering. I wish you all the best with whatever road you travel. Go well
I believe the resistance would not be to the Lupron, but that cells mutate and become castrate resistant.....whether ochiectomy or chemical castration....but maybe I misunderstand?
Have you had any other treatments during this 5 year period? My husband had an orchiectomy in July this year and his PSA has been dropping since then, from 68 to last one in Nov. of 0.4. He does have mets to bone. His MO wants him to take Nubeqa.
Hey there,I have had no other treatments since the 'ork' then other than a drug called Cyproterone Acitate that controls hot flushes. I have ongoing Ostio Arthritis back hip knees etc so oxcodone,oxynorm and pregabalin for nerve pain... I have used cannabis religiously in oil form every night for 7 years now. I don't worry about what people say regarding the worth or unworthiness of cannabis as that's my personal road. And I've always said I will walk my walk with this evil shit but conventional medicine walks with me also...without it I wouldn't be here now. All the very best my friend on what is ahead of you,God's blessings to you and yours....🎶❤
Thank you Dave!!!!! Very well wishes for you as well. Looking curiously to my 15th MO appointment and see what he says about meds. Hot flashes for me come and go, nite sweats the same. Really in touch with my female friends LOL. I might seek alternative care for your pains, maybe try a deep butt massage and if that helps let me know. Be well, Merry Christmas
Thanks for that info....I'll let you know how it goes. 👌
I had it done and have no regrets.
in reply to
No returns 😂😂👏👏👏
in reply to
This may be going a bit to far, but between the chemical castration and the finality of true castration….the hot flashes, and I’m starting to notice some breast enhancement…oh, and I have a penile implant. The circus is gone…So it’s starting to make sense that I start a “PC” Drag Queen comedy hour event here in Charleston, SC. I think it’ll draw a crowd. Anyone on board?
in reply to
Hec no! I’ve got my own freak show going on here that no one wants to witness . 😂😂👏👏👏😳
I was diagnosed with mPCa with local spread to lymph nodes in January of this year. PSA was 248, Gleason sores 9-10 on all. The idea of years of shots did not appeal to me, particularly since there are fewer side effects with an orchiectomy. I was off work for 1 1/2 days and had no other problems. PSA dropped rapidly at first and is now 0.57 and dropping around 0.02 to 0.03 per month. My oncologist suggested that we might look at chemo but I am not going that route unless the PSA starts to rise or a scan shows new cancer growth.
Kat, as you know in North America getting the Orchiectomy is quite unusual.
I was newly diagnosed at age 52 PSA300 looking at lifelong ADT, same as what you are being told.
After about 6 months of shots, I opted for bilateral Orchiectomy, my PSA dropped really fast, and thank God is still extremely low now one year post surgery.
For me I still think it was the right choice. I wish I could say there's a huge improvement in how I felt on shots vs now, I think it's similar, but I believe there are benefits in the future, hopefully.
CSHobie I get the side effects of Lupron. So far using methods of my energy medicine knowledge I have been able to balance most of all of them. I think since it's life-time less medication is likely to be best. With the same physiological effects either way, a no brainer.
I had a botched RARP 4 years ago for 4+5=9 cancer and it caused something I couldn't live with. When the cancer came roaring back like a freight train last year I had Lupron + radiation. After a few months of Lupron I had the whole bottom end refurbished to permanently remove testosterone and fix the damage done by the first surgery. It was a choice I had to make and I have not regretted it. Taking maintenance estrogen now and boobs are growing. Life sometimes gives you lemons. I made lemonade.
I'm 78 had it done 8mos ago after being on Lupron for 3 1/2 yrs. At the time my psa was slowly rising to 1.1 and over the last 8 mos it has been steadily decreasing to .38 Will see my MO to under stand the decline. Not complaining!
Thanks for your reply, the fact that your PSA came down after being on Lupron for years, it makes me think that when Dr s say the two types of castration are equivalent, that really isn't the whole story.
Just one more word of support for orchiectomy. I got mine "clipped" two months ago and have no regrets. Still have the effects of 0 testosterone but I believe I feel generally better not getting the monthly injections of Firm is Gone. I even had a dream last night that I had an erection but it was just a dream.
I don't want to be the sole negative voice in this discussion, but I'm having doubts about proceeding with my orchiectomy (I'm on the waiting list for this "elective surgery"). The best thing I can say is: decide WHY you want the orchiectomy. Is it only to avoid Lupron or equiv. for the rest of your life? Or other reasons? I was convinced by the wonderful men on this platform to choose orch. specifically because of the reduction in side effects over Lupron. However, I've had conversations with my urologist and 2 oncologists, and all 3 state that there is no data to show that orch. is any better than shots, in terms of SEs; meanwhile, even though orch is a low-risk surgery, it's still surgery, which in and of itself has some level of risk (from anesthesia, infection, etc.) So in my case, if the ONLY reason for surgery is to avoid shots, I'm thinking of cancelling the orch. Lupron costs me nothing (thank you Medicare!) and the nurses in the oncology infusion center, conveniently just 7 min from my house, are wonderful. So this is like everything else in the world of PCa: each case is unique. You need to decide WHY you want the procedure.
Thank you, I field different points of views and opinions. For me, as you asked, the Lupron effects short and long term are a motivation. For me less meds is better, if!! there is a long term. That's my training and philosophy. Consult Tuesday. Merry Christmas
LifeQ, Yes Dr s say it's about the same thing, if you believe that. I don't believe that Lupron has no additional side effects.
However in my experience, the benefits of Orchie, vs Lupron is not felt immediately, and therefore not easy to justify. In the end, it's really your personal choice.
Thanks for your thoughts. I feel the same way; i.e., that it "seems logical" that 'no drugs is better than some drugs', because ALL drugs have SEs. The thing I'm grappling with is that there is a dearth of studies validating this--probably because nobody will pay a scientist to investigate, and possibly conclude, that drugs AREN'T necessary! Not the drug companies! On the other hand, I have seen studies (cited on MaleCare) that show that a variety of metabolic conditions common to ADT (e.g., increase in visceral fat, subcutaneous fat, etc.) are worse after orch than on agonists. I sure would like to see studies that show that orch is measurably better than staying on shots. Thanks again!
Thank you very much. Yesterday I consulted my urologist and he concurred. Although I can not wrap them and give them to someone for Christmas LOL, March
Thanks for your reply. Both articles you cited are about the same study. Unfortunately, my MO and urologist both reject this info as being "old" (who cares if it's a good finding, but whatever) and as being too narrow of a population. As I replied to CSHobie, I sure would like to see studies that show that orch is measurably better than staying on shots. But that's not likely to happen, since nobody will pay a scientist to investigate, and possibly conclude, that drugs AREN'T necessary! Not the drug companies! Thanks again.
Love the conversations. One of my deciding factors is the great numbers of castration resistant men now are on several more different et drugs to control a controllable condition. No not enviable by any measure however common sense to me. Side effects are about the same. For me my physcial stamina is a problem attempting exercises as well as the joint problem restrictions. Going to assist my body with some creatine and see if that helps
i was castrated the 1. Dez. 2o2o, one inguinal and the other scrotally, because no cancer was found. I had some trubble with pus over more than a month, but than all was okay.
Today i feel me wonderfull and as an proud Eunuch! Icant explain it, but it is so! At first i wanted silikons in my empty sac, but there no one was stocked, and today i want it never.
Its a good feeling with my litle empty sac and i have no shame to show it in gym, shower or sauna. perhaps the castrated level is the highest male???
Wish you a good surgery with a good healing, Katarty! And have a strong courage. In our age it isnt important, whether we will have some bowles dangling or not. The effort is important and your life after. And im shure, that the removal of our eggs is more healthy than to take some chemicals over years! I wonder only, that your surgery date is so late??
And are you married? My wife doesnt it matter too, when i loosed my old balls, which had done their good work for us two over a long life...
hanseunuch wrote --- "I was castrated o good year ago....................I cant explain it, but i find to be a castrate is the highest male level. And i can stear my sexdrive by myself with testo-gel! This is better yet - i mean - than the time, when i was chased from my eggs. Now i am the boss..."
Welcome to the club 👍👍 by this 71.5yo Senior Unique Eunuch who lost 10 pounds in a matter of minutes when "The Boys" were removed almost 7 years ago. 😀
I am starting to fill out my shorts better with being off ADT (for now) and not dealing with a retractable penis anymore which is actually more comfortable. It gave new meaning to "like a freightened turtle"
Not too long before this all started I was bragging about in old age the balls and all drooping/hanging so much that I had to kind of aim/swing them into position over the toilet opening as I began sitting on the toilet.
But alas no longer is an issue. Instead no longer is very light gentle coaxing with the index finger all that is needed to aim into the bowl while sitting.
Must now pull/stretch it out and hold onto what little is there to make sure it doesn't retract resulting in peeing out between the toilet seat and toilet rim ha.
I was diagnosed may 28th and began treatment. My Mo is not promoting this and he is Indian where that is the #1 treatment. my Orologist is in favor. Scheduled apr 01
Not married have a long time 15+ years lady unit LOL. She seems good with this and has supported me the entire way. A agree at our age it's a good thing
Ouh yeah, Addict! You feel the same as like me after your castration!!?? I never had thought this. I had expected with the castration: Oh,oh,oh, when a man is castrated - this will be his end!! His most important bodyparts ar gone!! What will say the other peaple, what will say your wife, when you will come with a empty sac???? And than? It was sooo an easy feeling, when i went from hospital home. Not even the pus-troubble over four weeks could get me down. When this was over, i nearby have not the courage to say, that i am was happy in my eunuch-state!!!! Until today!!! How a grown man can be happy, when his bag is scraped out and empty???? I believe, nobody can explain this....
Yeah, Addi, your words with the 10 pounds are trew really. This is a right point. Our bags content was a great fat weight, which has steered our whole life! Its over now, while im a steer, haha!!!
And a plus-point is the empty sac for cycling in each case - thats trew too.
Such a funny bag isnt hanging behind my car, because the docs only took out my eggs and my bag is dangling yet as a little floppy from me. The bigger egg went to the Pathology - Goodbye forever - and the other smaller one i got with me at home, because i wanted not be ungratefully and let it end in the refuse! And so my good old shepherdbitch got it as a goody and i believe, that she has known during eating it thoughfully, that this was an important part of her master. And i find it better ending than its bigger brother, dissected and in refuse....
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Are there really fewer side effects with surgical castration over luprin?
My Dad has agreed to a surgical castration, thank you all! 
Reaching Castrate Resistance? Increase in PSA,ALP.
I am considering going off Zytiga/Prednisone to determine if I am castrate resistant.
