I have been thinking about this lately but "addicted2cycling's" response to my other post made me decide to ask the question to the whole forum.
I have been a biker all my adult life, first road bikes and now I have a few Gary Fisher mountain bikes that I ride through the neighboring Forest Preserve mostly on paved or limestone trails seldom off road. About 10 years ago I swapped out all my bike seats for the split version which no longer give me numb nuggies
All of this is anecdotal at this point.
Here is what I know; PSA reading can be effected by bike riding, horseback riding and yes, even sexual activity. I learned this from my Family MD. and have had personal experience with a couple of re-test where the number did change. To get a clear reading one needs to abstain from any of the above activities for 48 hours prior to test. I give it 5 days now just to make sure.
I have read many books since June on Prostate Cancer and have not seen this mentioned once. Nor have any of the doctors and or authors made the connection.
Anecdotally once again I have seen several posters on this forum mention their interest in biking... could there be a connection?
Seems logical to me that if the above activities can effect PSA #s that they could also have a damaging effect on the prostate itself perhaps causing inflammation or irritation because of it's location.
Perhaps I should also be polling for high libidos as well but that is a whole 'nother discussion.
Is there a way to poll the membership for this info?
If not perhaps respond with:
#1 if you have been an active cyclist
#2 a recreational cyclist (lest that 10 times/year
#3 no I never ride a bike
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#1 for sure. I have read the speculation though I have not read anything definitive. I have no plans to change my program as far as riding as now my prostate is just scar tissue (per RO) and the health benefits far exceed any concern of its effect on my PC. Maybe I am wrong but I am more concerned by the effects of the treatment now. At this point I would need to be convinced it leads disease progression as opposed to just disease.
That's the $64,000 question. Its fairly clear that extreme physical health is not a 100% prevention for cancer. I often think back on my life and wonder if it was this or that and even felt some guilt early on because I didn't take good enough care of myself to prevent this. That was back in the days of my rollercoaster of emotions right after dx. Now I have learned to appreciate life more and live in the moment, be present. Its a valuable lesson regardless of what comes down the road.
I have been an active cyclist. Serum PSA goes up because prostate cells are physically moved when the prostate moves. It is not because the prostate is irritated or inflamed. The same thing happens during orgasm, or prostate massage. The extra PSA in the serum is quickly cleared away. If anything, there is a correlation between ejaculation and lack of prostate cancer.
I'm glad TA came to the rescue. When I saw your post squished prostate came to mind. He explained much better. There is a lot of "I wonder" in this world and unfortunately most is total speculation.
Forest Preserve. You make me home sick. 25 years in Palatine and moved to Minneapolis a year ago.
I am not sure we actually know what the cause of cancer is at this point.Not saying PCa is caused by biking but asking if it could be a contributing factor.
My prostate was so large I had to stop til imrt and adt shrank that bitch down . I chopped the juevos that were tiny and painful after chemical castration . Sleek and better for biking . Great pic . Keep posting . I think you’ll do as well as anyone can . Always remember that you can do better than the Drs say. Take care . Keep biking .
#1 since my grandson has visited at least 6 weeks each of the last 2 years. He won't go out without Grandpa to ride at his side.... Mostly put away for this year--rain and snow more than sun till spring..
You might also include motorcyclists in the question. I'm a long-distance motorcycle rider (coast 2 coast a number of times) and much the same sort of impact. In my local BMW motorcycle club we exceed the ratio of 1 in 8 men will have PCa sometime in their life. It's more like 1 in 6 or less at most meetings. Our last meeting had 21 members attending and 5 of us are PCa survivors (plus we had a few members who didn't survive..)
A very respected oncologist did pose the same question - could something like motorcycling be a trigger for PCa?
And as much as I tried to be proof that frequent ejaculation lessens the chance of PCa - it didn't work. There of course was a study on this not too long ago that rejected that theory. I think it was wishful thinking. All that work for nothing. Sigh.
👍👍🏍. Returning rider since three years ago at age 69, after 8 years once PC diagnosis. Upgraded to BMW R1250GS Adventure (40th Anniversary) this Summer. What a great ride! I’m based in Oregon. Paul
That is helpful! Looking at --at risk groups--such as competitive cyclists and motorcyclists would be more focused. I bet the Harley riders might have a higher incidence, more vibration.
I read an article in the early 90's maybe-- about the bicycle seats on the Lance Armstrong type of bikes. The article was about the small seats causing damage to the nerve bundles--yes , those nerve bundles--resulting in difficulty of men getting erections.
The vibration from motorcycles? In the 1980's Homelite began isolating the vibration of their hand held equipment --especially chain saws--to prevent users from developing Raynaud's disease when using a chain saw in sub freezing weather. The vibration transmitted through the handles before this could destroy the capillaries in hands. That happened to me. It took decades to get better. Weather in the 30's with wet hands would feel like my fingers had been beaten with a hammer. Anyone ever miss with a hammer? All eight fingers and the two thumbs as well just to make it an even ten!
Think about what we have done in life and give warning to those coming after us.
I acquired Raynauds after starting ADT. Only get it riding my bike in relatively weather though when my core temp drops enough. Hoping now that I have stopped it may also.Interesting about chainsaws. I don't use one that often and it is cordless but weedwackers I use quite a bit during certain times of the year. My son complains his hands hurt when he uses it but it doesn't seem to bother mine. The worse my hands hurt recently was putting up wire fencing and twisting 16 wires at every post.
Homelite warned that Raynaud's could result from using chainsaws without vibration isolation in sub freezing temperatures in manual with my third chainsaw. Too bad it wasn't in 1970's manuals.
I cut 15 cords a year for my mother, one for myself and 4 or 5 for my grandmother after a swampy area froze and I could get my truck over it. I split the wood with an eight pound maul and if the maul wouldn't split a log I had wedges and a 16 pound sledge. Excellent exercise. I think I did that for about four years.
I have been a recreational log splitter most of my life. Very much enjoy it and still have a chance to split, cut and burn all the dead and dropped wood in my yard. My son has picked up the bug as well. I use axe and hand saw mostly because the limbs are rarely more than 6 inches. If I had to cut wood for heat at the qtys you mention above it might lose its charm. Its an exercise I enjoy as much as riding my bike but do far less often.
As an adult I've been a #3 for biking (never) and a #1 for ejaculation (frequent). Ejaculating while riding a bike has not been shown to cause PC, but is probably not very PC, in the other sense of that abbreviation.
On a more sincere (but not serious) note, thank you for posting a very nice pic: bright headlights, even brighter smiles!
#3; #2 seems to confound the results: not being a bicyclist I have no idea how much time you'd want to consider a #2. In my experience anecdotal evidence is never going to point to a reason we got Pca. But I like your post and like your photo!
My husband is at 2. From time to time there was a lot of riding but not in hundreds of miles. Would you not need to know the numbers of cyclists in these categories in the non-PCa men to draw any conclusion at all? Then there is the modern sedentary life with desk jobs - the sheer amount of sitting down required is not good for anybody.
I have often thought my sedentary computer job played a role in my PC. Many hours spent sitting. A few years back I made my desk adjustable ronstand or sit. I have been riding my whole adult life but there were periods I worked sitting from 8am -2am working 2 jobs.
Human body is designed to live until 30 something. After that, everything starts going wrong. Not much you can do about it. I think there was a brief discussion of what had caused my advanced prostate cancer at 48 when I got diagnosed by my consultant but he just shrugged his shoulders and said, we've got this problem, we have to deal with it.
I'm 68 and have been an avid cyclist my entire adult life. I developed difficulty urinating due to BPH and also ED. 2 days before my new very respected urologist appointment I did a bike ride in Georgia called the 6 Gap ride, about 104miles and 11,400 feet of climbing. When I saw my urologist I told him about the bike ride and he did a digital and said don't worry about it all before he drew blood for my PSA. My PSA had been 1.7 you about 4 years. He panicked because he felt what he thought was a nodule and my PSA went to 3.5. MRI, Cat scan and biopsy revealed an enlarged prostate but no nodule and was all probably inflammation from the bike ride. About a month later another PSA and it was back to 1.7. 2 samples from the biopsy came back positive with less then 10% in one and less then 5% in the other with GL 6 which the debate still goes on about whether or not that is even cancer. I too read about 10 books and had about 10 consults with different doctors exploring different procedures and possibly AS. My main problem was difficulty urinating so I had to do something. I chose to do Tulsa Pro because I wasn't comfortable with possible cancer and wanted it out and the procedure would shrink my prostate so I could urinate. The procedure worked and I was given a clean bill of health from my doctor, Dr Busch from Georgia. He customizes the procedure for you as apposed to the clinical trials which ablates about 75% of your prostate leaving many men I have spoken to with severe ED for at least 8 months so far with no sign of improvement. Dr Busch customizes it for your situation and for me was able to save vital parts. I urinate good but still have ED which is totally cured with 5mg Cialis per day. Erections are great whenever I want or need one. There were some post procedure problems for me that other men didn't experience but after about 2 months everything cleared up including the stubborn UTI which needed 4 rounds of different antibiotic to go away. I have slowly gotten back into cycling but my feeling is enlarged, inflamed prostate, rising PSA probably BPH and it's symptoms and possibly cancer could all be aggravated by cycling. I purchased an ElliptiGo which is a stand up outside riding version of an elliptical machine and have been doing it to the extreme for 2 months before I started cycling again. I waited for my 1st PSA post procedure, 3 months out to come back which was 0.32 and my doctor to say it was okay to cycle just take it slowly. Sorry for the long story but the bottom line in my humble opinion is YES cycling affects your prostate. Not necessarily everyone. I think some people and their anatomy or something is different and it doesn't affect them. I strongly feel it caused my issues and all that abuse could lead to cancer. That however is a big "COULD". There definitely needs to be more research and studies done about it and the doctors definitely need to be mad aware of it and NOT do digitals and PSA test when you have done something to affect your prostate 2 days prior. One final note about the person who said cyclist are just not fit enough to run. I can't think of a nice way to say it so I'll just say you're an idiot. I have been an active runner, triathlete, biker and swimmer for over 50 years and if you knew anything about serious cycling you would not say something so stupid. Cycling and the ElliptiGO are extreme fitness sports. If I could still run I would and yes I miss it and the fitness it gave me especially since I feel it would have helped my recovery but due to my old job and many years of running need a total knee and can't do it anymore.I hope this long story helps whoever reads it.
That may have been a troll post, but being optimistic it may just reflect an impression that running is harder on the joints.
I raced just 1 season (1986)--that ended on the neurosurgical service of my local hospital in late July. I did rent a tv while there to watch Lemond win his first Tour. I was never going to make it to Cat II, and I was 33. And George Hincapie was in my club--he was just riding away from our group--he had just turned 13.
If I ever get comfortable again on a bike I hope to get back to longer rides. As you surely know, it's hard to come back after a long layoff. Right now not sure how much of my poor performance is just age, how much just needing to ride more, and how much is my mitral regurgitation.
Here's one anecdotal data point. I have biked between 3000 and 3300 miles for each of the last several years (through 2020). I am also in a long term remission from prostate cancer. In 2012 I was diagnosed with a regionally metastasized, Gleason 9 case. My doctors all chanted the same mantra at the time of diagnosis: advanced, aggressive and incurable. I had radiation therapy and was on ADT (Lupron and Casodex) for 27 months. I have been off all meds since October 2014 and my PSA has remained at or below 0.2 ever since.
FYI, there is some risk in biking for older people. In June of this year I fell at the end of a bike ride while turning into my driveway from a freshly graded dirt road. I had multiple fractures of my pelvis and was operated on and had a 12 cm screw inserted. I spent two months using a walker and was confined to the first floor of my house; we had to set up a bed in the living room. Thankfully I am about 98% recovered now.
However I have decided to confine my biking to a stationary bike. The fractures were due to osteopenia in my pelvis, which remains thin. I am about to start a prescription med to reduce the risk of fractures. Both the radiation and the ADT can contribute to reduced bone density. Of course aging does also and it is impossible to tell if the fractures would have occurred without the cancer treatments.
There is preliminary research evidence that heavy exercise can slow the progress of cancer. I remain determined to ramp my exercise levels back up to high levels. (FYI, I turn 72 in December.)
Scout,I have made mention of this here a few times in the past with no definitive response. So many Cyclists on this site which makes you wonder. But Cycling is popular across Nation.I rode w 26 guys in Santa Barbara for 20 years. 6 of 26 had dealt with PCa (23%). Natl avg 1 in 6 will get PCa (17%). So maybe a correlation.
Docs at Mayo told me 3 things can affect PSA.
1) Cycling for more than 1 hr - 24 hours before test.
2) Sexual activity, or
3) infection in the pelvic region.
With that said, I am in NYC w appts at Mem Sloan Kettering. Decided to rent Citi Bikes as ride from Midtown thru Central Park was enjoyable so we added some miles thru the Park. Unknown to me, they drew for complete blood panel upon arrival for first appt., directly after a 1 hr ride. I was nervous for neg result. But…..PSA came in at new low nadir of .560 vs .670 2 mos ago in St Pete (Prostate still intact). So maybe the seat was too comfortable vs a Racing seat😎, and the SEAT is the issue😂.
#1. Enjoyed long distance bike riding my whole adult life and since childhood. Until I started road racing seriously. That took the fun out of it as every ride was a prescribed workout in year long programs and races: stage races and time trials and such. High intensity. Repeatedly diving into lactic acidosis hell. So I gave up competing on bikes, as well as XC skiing and triathlons at age 55. Two years later PC showed up. I only do shorter easier rides now, usually only 40 miles or so.
But I still run trails (slowly) for up to three hours, and can hike/ backpack all day and multiple days in the mountains. And yes, ride a big adventure motorcycle too. It’s all about the happiness factor now. Fitness is the byproduct.
#1 and I do think there is a correlation. But you will never get anybody to do any studies on it because bicycle riding is considered healthy and it would just be unpopular. Plus conducting the studies would be very difficult and take a long time. Hopefully having treated prostate cancer it is no longer an issue for me.
liked your way of investigation. #2 is me. as for the prostate and ejaculation, too much of it as addictive sports is probably unwanted wear and tear. like anything, the prostate is highjacked beyond its functional range, like the knees and ankles, and shoulder blades. Kings and emperors who died young may be related to the easy seductive nature and access of it, stressors and genetics are something else. I might myself have too much overuse of prostate and its relation to life and living, always wondering about after the DX...It was SPORTS, and you were focused and hard with the heart of a true Olympian
IIRC my prostate is “mostly dead” (my paraphrase) after brachytherapy and EBRT, so bike riding is not a big concern. To be safe I stay off bike anyway for at least 48-72 hours before PSA.
Sounds like a stretch that bike riding can be a trigger. Remember, correlation is not causation. Living one’s life long enough (which bike riding, eating well, etc can increase) is not so much a trigger as “more opportunity” for cell mutations to occur.
Mutations happens all the time - some mutations are benign, others undesirable but which will never become a problem, and then there’s the malignant variety (tumors) that affects our lives.
As mentioned in this thread already, genetics can be causal. I use “causal” with caveat that a high enough degree of correlation coupled with positive predictive value leads to an evidence-based conclusion of causation…
Exposure to certain chemical agents can be a cause…e.g. Agent Orange is a strongly suspected, if not “proven”, causation. Not sure if overexposure to radiation (e.g. X-rays) or radioactivity (i.e. uncontrolled, vs brachy, so e.g. someone who works in a nuclear power plant? survivors of Hiroshima/Nagaski? etc) can be a cause.
Bottom line I chose to double down in recent months on what was already very active cardio for decades, adding much more strength than I’ve ever imagined I’d do. It feels great, and it’s my belief that this is one thing I can do every day to fight the cancer. And if it turns out that bike riding makes my PC worse, well at least I enjoyed my life while I was busy shortening it
#1 Dedicated road biker often riding 100+ miles per week, both commuting, and weekend rides averaging 60-80 miles; so, often 6-10 hours in the saddle each week. I was always a mtn biker, but started riding road in my mid-30s and that was when I began with regular high mileage. I discovered I had PC at age 42!
I have been an avid cyclist for over 40 years, mostly recreational. But I've commuted, I've raced (that ended badly), I've done loaded touring, I've been on the board of my bicycle club (including 4 years as president). After my prostatectomy, things just didn't feel right, and was off the bike for over 2 years. Have made multiple changes to setup, and have been playing around with different saddles--haven't found "nirvana" yet.
There is no strong evidence that cycling is related to PC, nor to whether it can help spread PC. But as you know, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". Remember though that PC is exceptionally common; both my dad and 1 brother have had PC, and neither did much cycling. My impression is that any relationship is weak.
#1 I bike 45 minutes most days for 20 years fairly fast doing errands, instead of car/metro. I believe my PC is genetically caused since I am BRCA2+ with Gleason 9 which gives a 60% risk of getting PC and often of the more aggressive type. Biking is integral to my life so to stop it I would need clear evidence of danger of it worsening PC which is highly unlikely.
Learning that biking can interfere with PSA testing I think I will go for what Spyder54 wrote which was the most specific on the topic: the Mayo docs saying not to bike for more than one hour in the last 24 hours before testing. That is manageable
So this Missionary is stationed in the Congo teaching the High Muckety Muck of the village how to speak English.
Well they take a walk outside the village and the Missionary spots a dog and points to the dog and says "DOG' so that the Muckety Muck can repeat the word dog.
Further down the road the Missionary sees a basket of fruit and the Missionary points to the basket and says 'FRUIT' and sure enough the Muckety Muck says the word fruit.
Further down the road the they come across a couple doing the nasty behind some bushes. The Missionary is so embarrassed and doesn't know what to say so he says "THEY RIDE BIKE". With that the Muckety Muck pulls out his blow gun and shoots the male participant with a poison dart. The Missionary says to the Muckety Muck "Why did you do that" and the Muckety Muck says "He rideum my bike".....
Lifelong cyclist here, likely 150,000 miles, almost all road; a little off-road. If there were a link between bike riding and PCa, what could we do about it? Hard to change things that have occurred in the past. As the football coaches say, "it is what it is."
I transitioned from a traditional upright road bike to a two-wheel recumbent a few years before my PCa diagnosis. Gotta say the recumbent is very comfortable and really fun--no parts hurt at the end of the ride. On the few occasions when young whipper-snappers manage to pass me, they often look disappointed -- no trophy for passing an old guy on a recumbent!
There are lots of great choices in recumbent bikes. I especially see folks in their 80s very happy on their recumbent trikes and electric assist trikes. For anyone with balance or mobility issues, 3 wheels is the way to go.
Haven't seriously considered a recumbent, but I may get there. I'm still riding on my 2 bikes from the early '80s. Obviously bike tech has changed drastically since then, but at least I know I can do most of my own maintenance if I choose to.
How do you find maintenance on your recumbent, or do you take it to someone?
You might try searching for incidence of prostate cancer for retired professional tour riders...clearly, if there were to be a connection, there would be an abnormally high incidence in that group.
The responses from this group will only give you known prostate cancer patients who ride or rode bikes. I believe you are looking for the following, out of all bikers, how many have been diagnosed with prostate cancer.
Tomtom sent me a article that made a point to road cycling vs mtn biking. As the article discussed it's the sitting while you ride that takes the weight off your legs and places it in you behind primarily, In mtn biking the standing body movement offers more bone health a accordingly to the article which I also do as well as long hills that I end up standing on. I ride quite a bit but also garden, and walk. More in winter than summer when I primarily ride. I do have osteopenia in my femoral necks but my MO said it is mild and could be reversed in my particular case. Cycling is good for everything else and certain activities like running may be better for preventing osteoporosus but harder on your body in other ways such as impact. This is all opinion so take it or leave it. I'll keep biking regardless, its something I love to do.
I would guess that if anything. You're used to a saddle sore here or there and probably done a lot of "sitting on the rivet" while hammering hard.
So you might not even consider a subtle this or that and think it was from the last ride when it wasn't from cycling but PC. I'm thinking "the cyclist" is someone who races or has raced for some years rides 10,000+ miles a year not someone who a rides around the block or to the coffee shop type.
Now your primary care should be performing PSA testing and DRE yearly at the least and forwarding you to a Uroligist if any thing is off.
However if you get a Primary Care doctor who tells you you don't need one or thinks your too healthy and fit and doesn't perform their duty or talks like they know about PC but doesn't actually know much about PC and ignores the results because you look so healthy. That's how you can end up with PC from being a athlete.
Yeah, that's extreme. I met a guy maybe 35 or so years ago--named Freddie Hoffman. I think he was "on the spectrum" as they say--but he was a monster. That year I think he averaged over 100 mi/day every day for a year. The most I ever did was 5,000-7000 mi/year, and that was when I wasn't working full-time. And I'd get overtrained--my body just couldn't handle the miles. When I was riding a lot, I usually did a few centuries in a year, but I never aimed for crazy miles; and though I raced a season, I never had any illusions I could take it anywhere.
When my wife and I had a bike shop Freddie H was a customer but more importantly became a friend. When wife and I closed down our store for our move to SW FL he presented us with one of his 50,000 mile chainrings wall plaque. A couple of times he stopped at our house on the way back to NJ after biking to Key West. Just enter into search Million Mile Freddie you will find his AWESOME STATISTICS that are indeed factual.
" ... At that time he was riding a Schwinn Voyager. During the 1980s — his best decade — he knocked off more than 50,000 miles a year. When interviewed back in 2001, he had backed off to 35,000 to 38,000 miles a year — a century bike ride a day... "
I think he was riding that Voyager. As I recall, the bike had a name tag: "John Bull", which didn't seem right for an American bike. He also had a horn with a rubber tube he could blow into. Our club was doing a ride out of West Point. It started out at Thayer Gate and went up Storm King Mountain. He was spinning out a little gear and talking a mile a minute. Most of us couldn't talk--we were too out of breath. He eventually turned off to "get miles in"--our ride was a mere 60 or 70 (a beautiful ride, BTW).
I remember there was an article about him in Bicycling magazine. As I recall, Mike Fraysse, who'd been the president of the then USCF and ran the Paris Sport racing team tried to get him to join the team and train him, but I don't think Freddy had a real racing mentality. No harm in that; I didn't have much of a racing mentality either. I hope he's still around and OK (and riding!)
dentaltwin wrote --- " ... I hope he's still around and OK (and riding!)"
Last year's Christmas Card from Freddie indicated that he is still riding but of course not the 50,000 miles a year as in the past.
" ...His American-made Waterford Precision 1250, named "Ruth E-3," is inscribed "Second Time Around the Moon." His mother, who died in 1986, was named Ruth and it's his third bike --43,671 on the odometer... "
He did indeed race under Mike F. but did not have the frame of mind for that riding. We had dissolved our USCF Team long before he raced. Mike F. was given Freddie's 1st 50,000 mile chainrings Plaque and we got his second. Riding with him was a treat in that he could talk under any and all conditions while others gasped for air. I also seem to remember that at the N.Y. Giants Meadowlands Complex he had outperformed Greg LeMond's Ergometer timed/intensity effort.
That's wonderful! I don't know your relationship to Fraysse--I bought a frame from his shop--(Vic was still around)--a custom Dave Moulton--this was right before he headed out west, and I knew and sometimes rode with some of the Paris Sport people. Wouldn't be surprised if you and I knew a lot of the same people.
Let me reply with the classic answer intended to be funny so don't get offended "a bike owner".
But really what ever time spend on a bike is good.
I really didn't want people who seldom ride or ride just a little to get concerned about haven ridden a bike and getting PC. There is no proof it's just someone's speculation.
But There are doctors saying there is no proven connection what so ever.
This is a "old man's" disease you don't see young bicyclists getting PC.
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